Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1300



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Our Beloved Admiral Santanocheev (was: Re: Overthrowing Government?)
Re: Slight COnfusion
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Survivalist Ninjas
Humour?
Striker: Movement Effects on Fire
Building Vehicles for Extreme Conditions (was Sylean Battleship Refuelling)
Re: Background Music
Re: Our Beloved Admiral Santanocheev (was: Re: Overthrowing  Government?)
Martial Arts in Trav
Re: "Clif"
[OT] Books
re: Dimension Travel Books
Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double-standard?
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: 2 Engineers
Re: Claymore or less
Re: Sylean Battleship refueling 
Re: RPG's in Boot Camp
Re: Gredel's Daughter -or- "What in hell are they talking about"
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Background Music
Re: Tage Line Snickers (Was Re: Overthrowing Government?)
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: GT: combat example

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:13:24 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Our Beloved Admiral Santanocheev (was: Re: Overthrowing Government?)

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Cliff;
> 
> Put up or shut up. Let's see some concrete documented proof of your
> allegations. Personally I think that the feds are too incompetent to be able
> to pull off the conspiracies that you talk about...
> 
More accurately, the U.S. Federal government seems unable to maintain
the consistent level of secrecy required for most conspiracy
theories....

The Feds are reasonably competent, merely unsubtle.

> Ob Traveller: See Admiral Santanocheev's write ups, and the unimpressive
> showing of IRIS in MT...

Methinks you treat the good admiral too harshly.  Think of all the good
he's done, providing for the support of widows and orphans.  Admittedly,
the widows and orphans in question are those caused by his incompetent
prosecution of the Fifth Frontier War.... <shrug>  C'est la guerre.

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:18:32 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Slight COnfusion

>What I want is the technology to find the one passenger who always
>checks his baggage but never gets on the plane, causing huge gate

  What's wrong with just duct-taping them to their luggage at check-in? :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 00:28:04 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

Yes, I agree that there is a significant amount of incompetence amonst the
intelligence community, just as there was with the Army when I was in, but
the plain fact of the matter is that the Federal powers have superior
training and superior equipment.  They goof up quite a bit, but nobody does
there job better than they do.

Who would you rather fight?  A Hell's Angel or a Counter-terrorist Navy
Seal?  I'd pick the Hell's Angel, anyday.

- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, December 21, 1998 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?


>
>Cliff;
>
>Put up or shut up. Let's see some concrete documented proof of your
>allegations. Personally I think that the feds are too incompetent to be
able
>to pull off the conspiracies that you talk about...
>
>Ob Traveller: See Admiral Santanocheev's write ups, and the unimpressive
>showing of IRIS in MT...
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 00:30:25 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Survivalist Ninjas

The true iga-mono (ninjas of the Iga province) WERE survivalists and
guerilla warriors, not assassins for hire.

The koga province ninjas were more of the cartoon ninja.
- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, December 21, 1998 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: Martial Arts IYTU


>At 04:03 PM 21/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Seeing as how many of you have more detailed reference libraries for
>>the Traveller milieu than I, I wanted to ask a few questions:
>>
>>1)  Are there any worlds referenced as being centers for Martial Arts
>>study and practice?
>>
>
>        Hi, Jason!
>        I just flipped through JTAS #23, and it describes the "Irklansa" of
>the highlands of Menorb.  Rough synopis is "Psionic Survialist Samurai
Ninja
>Monks"....  Interesting culture, and the article specifically cites JTAS
>#19's article that I mentioned in my previous response to your question.
>
>        Happy Holidays!
>        ---Michel
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> Michel R. Vaillancourt
> misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
>
> Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
> "Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
> "http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
> Into Traveller?  Check Out:
> "http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:57:03 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Humour?

>Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?
... Liberals are some of the best
>politicians because they don't let scruples or ethics get in the way of
>their scramble for power.

  Ah, so you are familiar with the Canadian political scene :)

  Hmm, we have a State TV corporation, and the PM's office can't
even prevent them from _encouraging_ subversives...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:12:59 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Striker: Movement Effects on Fire

  As vital as the doctrines behind the Overthrowing of Governments are
to Traveller, I can't but feel a need to return to the nuts and bolts
of displacing the oppressor to establish a properly planned dystopia...

  Striker rates stabilization gear by TL for effects in the two distinct
fire phases (Enemy, or EFP, and Friendly = FFP) of each turn, e.g. :

" Movement Effects on Fire: Move half or less, -4 FFP, no fire EFP; Move more
than half, no fire. "

  This is a bit annoying for anyone not using the full Striker turn system,
to which end I adapted the following conversion for single phase turns;

   Variant stabilization gear effects table
TL      Move half or less       Move more than half
n/a     -4                      No Fire
 6      -2                      -4
 7      -1                      -3
 8      No effect               -2
 9      No effect               -1
 A+     No effect               No effect

  Volume and price of gear (if any) would remain unchanged.


        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:47:17 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Building Vehicles for Extreme Conditions (was Sylean Battleship Refuelling)

To one and all,
Sorry to revive a (recently) terminated thread.

A possible solution for 'ruggedising' vehicles can be created using
FF&S(2).

1. Each point of hull armour value resists two atmospheres pressure,
assuming the material chosen is fluid or vacuum tight.

So a starship with armour 20 can dive to a depth of 400m in water in one
standard gravity, given sufficient structural strength. (This is a
little more than a contemporary military submarine's maximum safe dive
depth, IIRC).

2. Structure equal to 1G per atmosphere pressure to be resisted is
required to maintain hull integrity.

Our armour 20 starship needs a 40G rated structure to dive to 400m
(approx 10m water = 1 atmosphere pressure in one gravity).

The structure loading may look a little excessive.

However, if one designs an aircraft by building an airframe like any
other hull (say armour 1, equal to a grav vehicle) and compare this to
the canonical airframe requirements (airframe mass as fraction of
overall vehicle mass), we get average structure equivalents of
1600-1800G for a hypersonic fuselage, 600-700G for supersonic, and
90-120G for subsonic, using TL appropriate materials and an average
craft density of 2 tons/m3.

If an aircraft needs to tolerate this sort of loading, then a spacecraft
which gets tortured like the typical PC (or military) ship needs to be
at least this robust!

Perhaps aircraft airframes need to be lightened up a bit e.g.
Airframe Type     Minimum Structure Rating
Simple            5G
Fast Subsonic     10G
Transonic         20G
Supersonic        30G
Hypersonic        40G
Adv. Hyper        50G

with an upper limit of twice minimum structure.

Canonical references e.g. 'Secret of The Ancients' need not be
discarded. The fudges above give a more MT/High Guard 'feel' to heavily
armoured starships.


Constructive criticism welcomed.

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:54:11 -0800
From: Justin Engler <jengler@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Background Music

You guys missed (Either that or I did) some of the great classics...

* Wagner - Flight of the Valkeries -  Space combat/aerial maneuvers
* Tchaikovsky (did I spell that right?) 1812 Overture Finale - The cannons make good
explosions/artillery
* Holst -  The Planets -  the "Mars, Bringer of War" movement is most appropriate, but all
of it is good.
* Mussorgsky - Night on Bald Mountain - kinda creepy, very cool

Anyone have any other good classical to suggest?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 02:20:13 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Our Beloved Admiral Santanocheev (was: Re: Overthrowing  Government?)

> Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
> > 
> > Cliff;
> > 
> > Put up or shut up. Let's see some concrete documented proof of your
> > allegations. Personally I think that the feds are too incompetent to be able
> > to pull off the conspiracies that you talk about...
> > 
> More accurately, the U.S. Federal government seems unable to maintain
> the consistent level of secrecy required for most conspiracy
> theories....
> 
> The Feds are reasonably competent, merely unsubtle.

You're obviously not paranoid enough.

Don't you know that all the conspiracy stories floating around are just cover 
for what's really going on?  <grin>

> > Ob Traveller: See Admiral Santanocheev's write ups, and the unimpressive
> > showing of IRIS in MT...
> 
> Methinks you treat the good admiral too harshly.  Think of all the good
> he's done, providing for the support of widows and orphans.  Admittedly,
> the widows and orphans in question are those caused by his incompetent
> prosecution of the Fifth Frontier War.... <shrug>  C'est la guerre.

Santanocheev should have been taken out and shot.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:25:51 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Martial Arts in Trav

Dear Folks -

Jason Kemp <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us> asked about martial arts in
Traveller. The one reference I can remember is from an early JTAS (14?)
about the Irklan sect. I *think* they are from Menorb. Anyway, they were
probably based on the real-world Assassins, being an aesthetic bunch of
technophobes who believe that physical stamina, unarmed fighting prowess,
and mental discipline are superior forces to weapons combat.

The article also included guidelines for creating your own martial arts
fighting styles.

I'll see if I can look it up tonight.

I also thought there was some reference to martial arts in TNE??

Oh, and IMTU, the PC's have an Irklan assassin after them. They haven't yet
worked out why...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:56:44
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: "Clif"

>From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
>Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

Kenji !

You're back !

Ian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:17:45 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [OT] Books

After my question on the Silverberg book, one of my friends recommended
this URL

http://www.sff.net/bfob/

Apparently they saw it in Wired first.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:23:31 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Dimension Travel Books

Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca> wrote:

>Are you sure it was Robert Silverberg?  Larry Niven wrote a short called
>"All the Myriad Ways" on this topic, and a collection of amusing shorts
>called (I think) "Flight of the Unicorn" about a guy trying to time travel
>but ending up slipping "sideways" as he travels back, so that he ends up
>in all sorts of fantasy worlds and the like.  Very fun stuff.

Definitely Silverberg. Certainly not Niven (this was before my Niven phase)
_Flight of the Unicorn_ was the title of a novel by Anne McCaffery too IIRC.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:29:37 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double-standard?

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

>Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
>> Of course this tends to break down into grayness when you talk
>> about arial (or in the future, space to ground) bombardment...
>
>Naaah, arial only gets gray when you use too small a size and mess up the
>leading...but why are you throwing fonts at them...is this a war of words or
>what? :-P

LoL! It's just a poor rip off of Helvetica anyway!

(Dom pauses, thinks and resists expanding this into a flamewar about the
MacOS and Windows, whilst throwing in extra bits about terrorism sponsored
by certain first world states.

BTW what's the difference between a third world country and a developing
country? Apparently developing countries markets have crashed! This is the
argument one of our marketeers made recently!)

Dom (hurtling increasingly OT)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:33:27 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

"Clif" <brclif@digital.net> wrote:

>That whole business about the man who tried to storm Congress slaughtering a
>bunch of cats so many months prior is pure B.S., but I can't tell you how I
>know that, because you simply wouldn't believe it and I don't want to
>destroy any remaining credibility I have on this list.

Clif, what you should know is that there is a tradition on the TML of
gentle roasting people who make statements like this ('but I can't tell you
how I know that'), but I suppose that it's too late now.

ObTrav: BTW, do you have any conclusive proof that the Rule of Man was TL15?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:48:57 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: 2 Engineers

>I thought about that, but I don't like that idea because the rules (CT, MT,
>whatever) which define crew requirements never make any mention of shift work.
>Assuming a 24 hour day, you'd always need two or three of every crew position
>then. The fact that _small_ starships never need more than one or two engineers,
>one or two bridge crew, etc., seems to indicate that 24-hour coverage isn't
>needed.
>

Yeah, in jumpspace all there is to do is monitor the equipment. A computer
can quite happily wake you up when something unexpected occurs... most of
the time.

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:06:55 +0200
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: Re: Claymore or less

	<About placing claymore-like directional mines on the surface of 
	armored vehicle>

	Perhaps more practical way of using directional mines as 
	self-defense system is to use small self-propelled warheads. 

	Small directional warheads are places on computer controlled 
	launcher tubes on each side of the vehicle. When radar 
	recognizes an incoming missile, the defense system selects one 
	warhead and fires it diagonally upwards and away from the tank.
	The warhead's delay fuse is set so that the warhead flies far 
	enough before exploding (few meters) in order not to damage the 
	launcher sensors with the blast.

	The exploding warhead fires a directional cloud of fragments 
	(like a "claymore" mine) designed to destroy or disable incoming
	missile.

	This kind of "active armor" system can be fitted on lightly 
	armored vehicles (such as SISU-PASI APC), since it does not 
	require heavy armor or damage the vehicle like reactive armor.

	According to the test conducted in Finland, "active armor" is 
	good enough to defeat most current anti-tank missiles, but 
	there is still ways to defeat the system. In addition to missile 
	defense, "active armor" warheads can be used as giant shotguns
	against any infantry troopers who get too close to the vehicle.


        Antti Lahtinen     :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        lahtinen@ee.tut.fi :

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:15:38 PST
From: "Patrik Holmstrm" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sylean Battleship refueling 

>A couple of well-remembered disasters in the past few centuries
>plus the occasional accident where fuel shuttles got their high-speed
>skimming vector wrong has convinced practically everyone in the navy 
>that emergency refueling was more to be feared than the enemy.

The Sylean Federation navy haven't meet any serious opposition in while, 
have they? 

Patrik Holmstrm <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
There are things even the light is afraid of.....
                        Terry Pratchett



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:22:31 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: RPG's in Boot Camp

At 14:27 21/12/1998 -0500, Clif wrote:
>
>You just reminded me how we played one session of D&D in Basic Training in
>the Army one Sunday morning...
>
>One of the guys made a "dice" out of folder paper...

An advantage of CT over D&D and TNE: 

It is easier to fold up 2D6 than 1D20

So, was he good at origami, or did you use a D6 system for D&D?

Phil
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:04:52 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Gredel's Daughter -or- "What in hell are they talking about"

Excellent picture.

one small nit - shouldn't the windows on the side of the top deck
illuminate the side bulge? (Also putting a line of illumination on the edge
of the bulge on the far side.)

Phil Kitching
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:31:42
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

At 10:19 PM 12/21/98 -0500, you wrote:

>It's like the time I tried to expose the propaganda behind the whole Noam
>Friedman story.  He was the Israeli soldier about 2 years ago who allegedly
>opened fire into a Palestinian marketplace without cause.  Anyone who saw
>the picture of Noam Friedman in the act should have said, "Things that may
>you go hmmm..."
>
>I tried to post the QUESTIONS and PROBLEMS of the story and the accompanying
>picture on the Usenet and it was deleted so fast my head spun.  And that was
>in late '96 or early '97...

Hmm..  "accompanying picture".. let me guess, you tried to post a binary
file to non-binary groups.  And you're surprised you message got canceled?

>You can bet that there is at least one secret squirrel who has made it his
>job to familiarize himself with the Traveller subculture.

ROTFLMAO!!

The image of the poor FBI goon assigned to monitor this list!  "Chief,
they're planning to send us a near-C rock populated with a sentient
computer Virus and lesbian Aslan living under a feudal technocracy.. they
even have effective small fighters!"

"Take a pill and lie down, Mulder."

>Oh, right!  YOU could "destroy" this nation's government?  You wear Superman
>underoo's or something?

USMC trained Sniper.  Which of course, makes me one of "them".


- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|  111     Embrace Fascism.     111  |
|  |||  The uniforms look cool  |||  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:49:26 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Background Music

On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >
> >> For just after they've accepted an unwise contract (mercenary or 
> > otherwise):
> >> 
> >> The theme from the *movie* M*A*S*H (to get the words, you have to
> >> record it off a video of the movie). For those not familiar with the
> >> words, the tune is named after the chorus "Suicide is painless..."
> >
> > A wonderful song. I've got it on a single.
> 
> Oh? I wasn't aware that they'd ever made a release that had the
> *words*. Or does your record just have the music?

No, it's the original one from Johnny Mandel. On the backside there's only
music, called "M.A.S.H. March", perhaps this is from the series, as the
Cover shows the late Crew - but it's not the MASH Theme.
This release belonged to a special singles series, I don't know if it was
only released in Europe.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 00:16:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Tage Line Snickers (Was Re: Overthrowing Government?)

In mail you write:

>>>People are more violently opposed to fur than to leather because
>>>  it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.

I wanna watch when they throw the paint on the big biker's leathers. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:02:14 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

>Who would you rather fight?  A Hell's Angel or a Counter-terrorist Navy
>Seal?  I'd pick the Hell's Angel, anyday.
>
>--Clif

Hurah... first inteligent thing I've heard you say!

GO NAVY!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:58:10 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: GT: combat example

hal@buffnet.net on 12/21/98 04:14:26 PM

To:   Aerron Winsor/IAS
cc:   GURPSnet-l@io.com
Subject:  Re: GT: combat example




At 03:15 PM 12/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:20:22 -0500
>permitting realistic velocity impacts save one - game balance.
>************
>almost....say the missile has a vector of 100 in direction A while the
ship
>has a vecto of 10 in direction B(with A as up and B as one hexside
>clockwise from it.)
>the ship ends up 5 hexes in direction A from the missiles starting point.
>it will be within the triangle, but no way the missile could have hit it.

Problem with that arguement?  The Missile always can point it's "bullseye"
towards the ship.  If it needs to, the "triangle" can cover the area that
is equal in triangular area, as the current triangle, but on the other side
of the line.  Try it.  Create the Mandatory ending position.  Now, instead
of creating the triangle on how it *did* end it's position, make the "base"
of the triangle twice as wide.  One point of the triangle to the left of
the mandatory end point, and one triangle to the right.  This is the "TRUE"
area that the missile could have impacted upon.
Remember: the missile needs only adjust it's course change by a minute
amount to be able to impact on a target that has moved 100 feet - when the
missile is 1000 miles away.
**************
but in this case the missile is already past the target. the initial
position of the ship is five hexes behind the missile....

perhaps a liniar example would better explain my point.  the ship is at
point 0 the missile is at point five.  in the movement phase the ship moves
to point 10 and the missile moves to point 105.  the ship is now within the
triangle of the missile and accoriding to the rule you proposed, can be
hit. however there is no way the missile could have hit the ship, as it was
always ahead by at least 5 hexes..

forcing the missile to end its move in the targets hex may seem contrived,
but it seems to be the best solution  so far.

another benifit is that it is eady to caculat the velocity of the missile,
just count the hexes between the vector counters.





>My original sugestion was with a triangle of all possible routs the
missile
>could have taken that must include both the satarting and ending points of
>the ship.. I was told it was too cumbersom, and am forced to agree. yours
>is a little simpler, but still leaves room to argue....it also may be too
>complex for play.
<grin> and you let them talk you out of it?  How many times have you heard
"GURPS is too complex to learn to play?"
************
just a couple, it actualy compares very well with most systems,  just about
everything is reduced to a skill roll.



>************8
>well the lases in GT are defensive lasers...for effective PD you want a
>laser that will allways kill a missile.
Point defense lasers as I designed them, will always kill if they secure a
hit.  Minimum damage with 5d6 x 24 (2) will secure 120 points.  With armor
of 120 plus 30 points of Hitpoints, the missile will stop 60 points of
damage and be rendered ineffectual with 60 points of damage.
************
my bad, I was thinking of the lower TL numbers I am looking at for
Starships. For example, at TL8 a UV laser can just barely take a SIM-12.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1300
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Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1998 #1301
Date:	12/22/98 9:56:49 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1301



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Terrorism, Overthrowing Governments and The Like
Canada and their Media
Re: Background Music
Plots and Schemes
Re: "Clif"
Re: RPG's in Boot Camp
His Beautiful Daughter for Sale
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Martial Arts JTAS Articles
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Overthrowing Government?
The Queen Plays Traveller?
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Cool Site Alert
Re: His Beautiful Daughter for Sale
Re: Cool Site Alert
Books with adventure ideas
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Overthrowing Government?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:04:45 PST
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorism, Overthrowing Governments and The Like

Yes, indeed.  We are not amused.

FNORD

Jim Clem, B.S.E.
Borg vs Tribbles
"Assimilation is Futile!!"

REALITY.SYS Corrupted:  Re-Boot Universe?  (Y/N/Q)
The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbecility. 
                                       Admiral Lord Fisher 
In God we trust, everyone else SQUAWK MODE IV!!!!!!!!!!!!

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:54:23 +1000 (EST)
From: JEFFREY MALONE <j1.malone@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Terrorism, Overthrowing Governments and The Like
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM


Might one humbly suggest that this thread is getting way off track for 
the
TML, and allow the flame-war to continue in private?

Please?

Jeff Malone (aka Academician Boris Kalashnikov)

*******************************************************************************
Jeff Malone
PhD Student - Department of Justice Studies, Kelvin Grove Campus, QUT
              Kelvin Grove  QLD  4052
Phone:        (07) 3864-3597
              (07) 3864-3188
Fax:          (07) 3864-3991/2 
*******************************************************************************





______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:11:39 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Canada and their Media

And my assertion is that either there is a higher government over Canada
making that happen or the Canadian government is permitting it to happen,
for whatever reason.  Their motives would be more easily discerned by you
than by me.

- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 1:01 AM
Subject: Humour?


>>Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?
>... Liberals are some of the best
>>politicians because they don't let scruples or ethics get in the way of
>>their scramble for power.
>
>  Ah, so you are familiar with the Canadian political scene :)
>
>  Hmm, we have a State TV corporation, and the PM's office can't
>even prevent them from _encouraging_ subversives...
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:14:07 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Background Music

Yes.  What is the song that punctuates the "convoys" of knights riding out
to battle in "Excalibur".  It is Wagner, right?  But what is the song?

- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: Justin Engler <jengler@u.washington.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: Background Music


>You guys missed (Either that or I did) some of the great classics...
>
>
>Anyone have any other good classical to suggest?
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:17:16 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Plots and Schemes

- -----Original Message-----
From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 2:27 AM
Subject: Re: Our Beloved Admiral Santanocheev (was: Re: Overthrowing
Government?)


>> Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
>> >
>> > Cliff;
>> >
>> > Put up or shut up. Let's see some concrete documented proof of your
>> > allegations. Personally I think that the feds are too incompetent to be
able
>> > to pull off the conspiracies that you talk about...
>> >
>> More accurately, the U.S. Federal government seems unable to maintain
>> the consistent level of secrecy required for most conspiracy
>> theories....
>>
>> The Feds are reasonably competent, merely unsubtle.
>
>You're obviously not paranoid enough.
>
>Don't you know that all the conspiracy stories floating around are just
cover
>for what's really going on?  <grin>
>
Actually, that is part of my assertion (if anyone was really listening...
:)  ).

The idea of whipping up a crowd is not new.  In the New Testament, the
pharisaical religious leaders are portrayed as mingling in the crowd and
inciting them to shout "crucify him!".

Think about it.  In High School, the only thing you need to get a food fight
going is the captain of the football team to yell, "Food fight!".  People
are sheep.

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:19:09 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: "Clif"

Hehe, who is "Kenji"?

- --Clif

P.S.:  You're gonna tick some people off, starting a thread with my name.
:)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: "Clif"


>
>>From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
>>Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?
>
>Kenji !
>
>You're back !
>
>Ian
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:22:20 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: RPG's in Boot Camp

I remember that he DID make something other than a d6... but I can't
remember what.  It's been 13 years now.

- --Clif
- -----Original Message-----
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: RPG's in Boot Camp


>At 14:27 21/12/1998 -0500, Clif wrote:
>>
>>You just reminded me how we played one session of D&D in Basic Training in
>>the Army one Sunday morning...
>>
>>One of the guys made a "dice" out of folder paper...
>
>An advantage of CT over D&D and TNE:
>
>It is easier to fold up 2D6 than 1D20
>
>So, was he good at origami, or did you use a D6 system for D&D?
>
>Phil
>--
>  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
>  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
> "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:23:29 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: His Beautiful Daughter for Sale

Oh, and shouldn't the cockpit be likewise illuminated?

It's a beautiful picture.  How much would a custom version cost?

- --Clif
- -----Original Message-----
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: Gredel's Daughter -or- "What in hell are they talking about"


>Excellent picture.
>
>one small nit - shouldn't the windows on the side of the top deck
>illuminate the side bulge? (Also putting a line of illumination on the edge
>of the bulge on the far side.)
>
>Phil Kitching
>--
>  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
>  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
> "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:25:57 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

No, I said I tried to post the accompanying QUESTIONS and PROBLEMS of the
story and the accompanying picture, not the story and picture, themselves.

I had some kind of Internet Regulatory Official contact me telling me my
post had been deleted in so many newsgroups.  Admittedly, I had spammed it.
But that's the thing.  SPAM gives the average Joe the opportunity to really
get the word out, but the Feds have emasculated the internet...

- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: dberry@hooked.net <dberry@hooked.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 6:39 AM
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?


>At 10:19 PM 12/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>It's like the time I tried to expose the propaganda behind the whole Noam
>>Friedman story.  He was the Israeli soldier about 2 years ago who allegedly
>>opened fire into a Palestinian marketplace without cause.  Anyone who saw
>>the picture of Noam Friedman in the act should have said, "Things that may
>>you go hmmm..."
>>
>>I tried to post the QUESTIONS and PROBLEMS of the story and the accompanying
>>picture on the Usenet and it was deleted so fast my head spun.  And that
was
>>in late '96 or early '97...
>
>Hmm..  "accompanying picture".. let me guess, you tried to post a binary
>file to non-binary groups.  And you're surprised you message got canceled?
>
>>You can bet that there is at least one secret squirrel who has made it his
>>job to familiarize himself with the Traveller subculture.
>
>ROTFLMAO!!
>
>The image of the poor FBI goon assigned to monitor this list!  "Chief,
>they're planning to send us a near-C rock populated with a sentient
>computer Virus and lesbian Aslan living under a feudal technocracy.. they
>even have effective small fighters!"
>
>"Take a pill and lie down, Mulder."
>
>>Oh, right!  YOU could "destroy" this nation's government?  You wear
Superman
>>underoo's or something?
>
>USMC trained Sniper.  Which of course, makes me one of "them".
>
>
>--
>
>+------------------------------------+
>| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
>|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
>+------------------------------------+
>|  111     Embrace Fascism.     111  |
>|  |||  The uniforms look cool  |||  |
>+------------------------------------+
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:31:54 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Martial Arts JTAS Articles

Season's Greetings,

In response to my previous query regarding Martial Arts IYTU, Michel 
told me of two JTAS articles, one in JTAS #19 ("Suggestions for 
Martial Arts in Traveller") and one in JTAS #23 ("Irklansa").  I am 
interested in the information found in both.  (Who can resist a 
description like "Psionic Survivalist Ninja Samurai Monks", eh?)  If 
this info is available on the net, I'd really appreciate the URL.  If 
not, does anyone have any other suggestions regarding obtaining the 
information within the articles?

In re-reading Milieu 0, I found a rumor in the last section (I have 
the softback) that spoke of a world which allowed dueling, but only 
using Martial Arts.  Did anyone expand on this idea?  I'm looking for 
a world similar to Renault from the "Matador" series by Steve Perry, 
and would prefer canonical references, if any are available.  My 
preference is anything reasonably close to Terra, preferably within 
the Solomani Rim sector.

If none are available, I will develop a small moon, secondary to the 
mainworld of the system, which will hold the type of culture I am 
looking for.

Thanks, everyone, for your assistance.

In Service,
Jason
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:30:22 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

Would you people listen to what I am saying if you are going to try to pick
it apart?

>>You can bet that there is at least one secret squirrel who has made it his
>>job to familiarize himself with the Traveller subculture.
>
>ROTFLMAO!!
>
>The image of the poor FBI goon assigned to monitor this list!  "Chief,
>they're planning to send us a near-C rock populated with a sentient
>computer Virus and lesbian Aslan living under a feudal technocracy.. they
>even have effective small fighters!"
>
>"Take a pill and lie down, Mulder."

Yeah, yeah, very funny, but I didn't say "with this list".  I said, "with
the Traveller subculture."  From where do you think the Feds are going to
recruit collaborators?  What was the profile they gave in "Wargames"?  They
keep their eyes out for geniuses experiencing a lack of direction and cash.
This list seems to have a *few* bright people on it.  :)


>
>>Oh, right!  YOU could "destroy" this nation's government?  You wear
Superman
>>underoo's or something?
>
>USMC trained Sniper.  Which of course, makes me one of "them".

Oh, so you probably feel you can shape history just like Lee Harvey Oswald
or something?  Okay, I can understand your self-confidence, but I think
you'd find it a bit more challenging to carry it off, these days.
>
>
- --Clif
>--
>
>+------------------------------------+
>| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
>|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
>+------------------------------------+
>|  111     Embrace Fascism.     111  |
>|  |||  The uniforms look cool  |||  |
>+------------------------------------+
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:32:18 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

Maybe you should give the other things I've said a second look, then?

- --Clif
- -----Original Message-----
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?


>>Who would you rather fight?  A Hell's Angel or a Counter-terrorist Navy
>>Seal?  I'd pick the Hell's Angel, anyday.
>>
>>--Clif
>
>Hurah... first inteligent thing I've heard you say!
>
>GO NAVY!
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:33:27 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: The Queen Plays Traveller?

You have a mouse in your pocket?

The Queen of England is a Traveller fan?

- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: jim clem <travmind@hotmail.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorism, Overthrowing Governments and The Like


>Yes, indeed.  We are not amused.
>
>FNORD
>
>Jim Clem, B.S.E.
>Borg vs Tribbles
>"Assimilation is Futile!!"
>
>REALITY.SYS Corrupted:  Re-Boot Universe?  (Y/N/Q)
>The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbecility.
>                                       Admiral Lord Fisher
>In God we trust, everyone else SQUAWK MODE IV!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:54:23 +1000 (EST)
>From: JEFFREY MALONE <j1.malone@student.qut.edu.au>
>Subject: Terrorism, Overthrowing Governments and The Like
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>
>
>Might one humbly suggest that this thread is getting way off track for
>the
>TML, and allow the flame-war to continue in private?
>
>Please?
>
>Jeff Malone (aka Academician Boris Kalashnikov)
>
>***************************************************************************
****
>Jeff Malone
>PhD Student - Department of Justice Studies, Kelvin Grove Campus, QUT
>              Kelvin Grove  QLD  4052
>Phone:        (07) 3864-3597
>              (07) 3864-3188
>Fax:          (07) 3864-3991/2
>***************************************************************************
****
>
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:01:07 PST
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

Ummm, are we wand'ring a bit far a'field here?  Enough already.

JimC


- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
To: <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:30:22 -0500
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM


Would you people listen to what I am saying if you are going to try to 
pick
it apart?

>>You can bet that there is at least one secret squirrel who has made it 
his
>>job to familiarize himself with the Traveller subculture.
>
>ROTFLMAO!!
>
>The image of the poor FBI goon assigned to monitor this list!  "Chief,
>they're planning to send us a near-C rock populated with a sentient
>computer Virus and lesbian Aslan living under a feudal technocracy.. 
they
>even have effective small fighters!"
>
>"Take a pill and lie down, Mulder."

Yeah, yeah, very funny, but I didn't say "with this list".  I said, 
"with
the Traveller subculture."  From where do you think the Feds are going 
to
recruit collaborators?  What was the profile they gave in "Wargames"?  
They
keep their eyes out for geniuses experiencing a lack of direction and 
cash.
This list seems to have a *few* bright people on it.  :)


>
>>Oh, right!  YOU could "destroy" this nation's government?  You wear
Superman
>>underoo's or something?
>
>USMC trained Sniper.  Which of course, makes me one of "them".

Oh, so you probably feel you can shape history just like Lee Harvey 
Oswald
or something?  Okay, I can understand your self-confidence, but I think
you'd find it a bit more challenging to carry it off, these days.
>
>
- --Clif
>--
>
>+------------------------------------+
>| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
>|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
>+------------------------------------+
>|  111     Embrace Fascism.     111  |
>|  |||  The uniforms look cool  |||  |
>+------------------------------------+
>




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:13:30 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Cool Site Alert

Below is the URL for JPL's Robotics and Mars Exploration
Technology site. It has some interesting details on the
potential of using robots to explore planets. There's some
good background for use in Traveller.

http://rmet.jpl.nasa.gov/RMET/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:03:29 -0800
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: Re: His Beautiful Daughter for Sale

Yup, in both cases.  However, for this quick render the windows and cockpit
are only using a luminous surface property with glow (same as the two
visible running lights).  The reason I don't have more going with the
cockpit at this point is there's no cockpit in inside, only the window.
If/when I build a cockpit for it, then I'd have it illuminated like the
cover of the Starship Operator's Manual, thus it's current slight red glow.

I will be adding more detail to it in the texture maps for sure, and
possibly adding the cockpit.  Before that though, I've got to rummage around
and see if I've got anything good that Loren can use by Jan 15 (OUCH!!!).

As for custom shots, sure.  Because of the way 3D works it's not too hard to
change stuff.  At this point in time (i.e. I'm not published nor do I work
for any of the big FX houses) I'm pretty cheap.  I'll do 3D models of your
ship for $50-75 or so depending on how complex the model is and the scale of
it.  This is with the caveat that I retain rights to the meshes, texture
maps, et al for us in future pictures.  If you'd like a shot of the FT with
the "Grendel's Daughter" logo replaced with your own, that'd be cheap.
Especially if you already have the logo in electronic form and it's of good
enough quality to use directly.  Say about $15.  Drop me a line privately if
you're interested in any of the above.

Best Regards & Thx for the Comments,
Jesse DeGraff
www.vision-forge-graphics.com
fenris@slip.net



- -----Original Message-----
From: Clif <brclif@digital.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 7:25 AM
Subject: His Beautiful Daughter for Sale


>Oh, and shouldn't the cockpit be likewise illuminated?
>
>It's a beautiful picture.  How much would a custom version cost?
>
>--Clif
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
>Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 6:21 AM
>Subject: Re: Gredel's Daughter -or- "What in hell are they talking about"
>
>
>>Excellent picture.
>>
>>one small nit - shouldn't the windows on the side of the top deck
>>illuminate the side bulge? (Also putting a line of illumination on the
edge
>>of the bulge on the far side.)
>>
>>Phil Kitching
>>--
>>  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
>>  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
>> "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
>>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:21:16 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Site Alert

OH no!!!! My secret is out.
I have been living at this site for several days now.
They even give pdf files that you can print on cardstock and assemble for
scale models of certain probes.
I like NASA.

TV

>Below is the URL for JPL's Robotics and Mars Exploration
>Technology site. It has some interesting details on the
>potential of using robots to explore planets. There's some
>good background for use in Traveller.
>
>http://rmet.jpl.nasa.gov/RMET/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:34:18 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Books with adventure ideas

I read two books recently that have a very nice feel to them, that have
lots of ideas for Traveller.  They are:  "Ports of Call" and "Night
Lamp" by Jack Vance.  I felt like they had a very Travellerish feel to
the planets visited.  Ports of Call had lots of details about running
what is essentially a Free Trader.  The FTL drive is not Traveller's
Jump Drive, but aside from that one quibble, the feel is very
Travellerish.  The background (humans spreading through what J.V. called
the "Gaean Reach") approximates the feel of humans having spent several
millenia in space settling various planets.  This is clearly not the 3rd
Imperium we all know and love (except for those of you who are heretics
of couse <VBG>), but (aside from the FTL drive) could very easily be a
parallel universe.
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:43:02 -0800
From: "Andrew Gingery" <gingerya@ohsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

"Clif" <brclif@digital.net> writes:
> 
> Oh?  You talk much about overthrowing the government
> on this list, do you?
> 
> You can bet that there is at least one secret squirrel
> who has made it his job to familiarize himself with the
> Traveller subculture.

Would that be you? AP?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:52:15 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

In a message dated 12/22/98 7:36:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,
brclif@digital.net writes:

<< They
 keep their eyes out for geniuses experiencing a lack of direction and cash.
 This list seems to have a *few* bright people on it.  :) >>

Allright; that's me!! They only pay teachers with a M.ed. $24k US where I
live....:-). Oh I forgot; I'm already recruited and am brainwashing your
children...You know you really sound like you listen to Art Bell too much...

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1301
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1302



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Martial Arts JTAS Articles
Re: Background Music
Re: Canada and their Media
Re: GT: combat example
Re: Background Music
Re: [OT] Books/Other Media
Re: Canada and their Media
Re:ROM (was Overthrowing Government?) 
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Art Bell
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Background Music
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Re: Air leak sound (was: Background Music)
Re: 2 Pistols?
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Canada and their Media
Hell's Seals and Navy's Angels
High Guard its Product
Re: High Guard its Product
Overthrowing the gov thru gaming

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:52:37 -0800
From: "Andrew Gingery" <gingerya@ohsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

>>> "Clif" <brclif@digital.net> 12/22 7:30 AM >>>
> Oh, so you probably feel you can shape history just like
> Lee Harvey Oswald or something?

Don't you mean J. Edgar Hoover?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:53:53 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Martial Arts JTAS Articles

In a message dated 12/22/98 7:38:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us writes:

<< If none are available, I will develop a small moon, secondary to the 
 mainworld of the system, which will hold the type of culture I am 
 looking for. >>

please don't call them "moonies" however...:-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:55:55 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Background Music

>Yes.  What is the song that punctuates the "convoys" of knights riding out
>to battle in "Excalibur".  It is Wagner, right?  But what is the song?
>
>--Clif
>

I thought it was "O Fortuna" from "Carmina Burana" <spelling ?>

essentially a bunch of German and Latin drinking songs from the middle ages,
collected together by Carl Orff

Phil Kitching
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:34:21 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Canada and their Media

"Clif" wrote:
> And my assertion is that either there is a higher government over Canada
> making that happen or the Canadian government is permitting it to happen,
> for whatever reason.  Their motives would be more easily discerned by you
> than by me.

OK, Clif, I'm going to select from the myriad of things that pop 
into my head while reading your posts and say just these things:

1) Occam's Razor
   http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/occams_razor.html

   If you have 2 (or a dozen) different explanations for something,
   the simplest one is usually the correct one. Conspiracies are
   never simple.

2) The Canadian Federal Government is barely able to keep MPs from
   shitting in their own pants, much less coordinate any conspiracies.
   I have observed enough really smart people in my life to know 
   that the amount of control necessary to run an efficient government
   is impossible and that this is most likely a lot less effort
   than running a bad government for some nefarious reason and covering
   it up.

3) You are seriously paranoid. If you have any concern for your health,
   please find a doctor that you trust or go to any library and 
   find some medical books dealing with mental health & illness.
   I doubt that you'll do this, but what the hell - from one human
   to another, this is my honest advice.

ObTrav: Zhodani conspiracy theorists. Now THAT is some major mind-
wiping cover-up stuff. Or is it just normal life in the Consulate?

ObTrav2: Imagine if there was an Imperial equivalent to the CBC
(or BBC for you Brits, which is somewhat different, but mostly 
the same). A single media entity dedicted to celebrating the 
uniqueness & shared values of several trillion people who have
nothing in common and who, to a certain extent, hate each other.

- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:42:19 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: GT: combat example

Why does everyone want things either complicated or wrong?

******* the full version *********

The solution to resolving collisions between two objects with
100 hex moves is to subdivide the moves into smaller time periods
as the objects get close.

The easiest way that I can see is as follows.

Multiply the ship's speed, by the missile's speed, the ship's
acceleration this turn and the missile's acceleration
to get the "number of impulses"

(The result is a large number, but it is just to get things in order
 and common factors can be removed to make things simpler if you want)

Divide the number of impulses by each of the ship's speed to find
how many impulses between each ship movement.
Similarly for the missile.

A similar division gives the gap between course changes, eg the first 60
impulses have no course change, for the second 60 you use your first G of
thrust, for the third 60 you get your second G (and your first G is lost
if it hasn't been used yet), etc until the final impulse when you can use
your last G.

Then just step through the turn. Once you get the hang of things, you can
easily skip through the boring bits (afterall, this isn't SFB where
you have to make a fire and other activities descision for each ship in
the fleet at each step. :-)

As an added guide, you might want to workout the base movement of the ship
and missile (ie their vector with no acceleration) so that you don't
get lost half way through the turn and take detours that change the distance.

******** the simpler version *********

You don't need to do the full multiplication thing, dividing each speed and
acceleration by 10 and then accumulating the fractions so that an extra hex
is granted when they add up to 1 so that the total distance moved is correct
would also work.

Then when things get close, divide by 10 again.

ie
             Ship         Missile
         Speed  Accel   Speed  Accel
           47      4      106    13
Impulse  Hexes moved
    1       4      0       10     1
    2       5      0       11     1
    3       5      1       10     1
    4       4      0       11     2
    5       5      1       11     1
    6       5      0       10     1
    7       4      0       11     2
    8       5      1       10     1
    9       5      0       11     1
   10       5      1       11     2

as a help, a spreadsheet formula like

	INT(impulse*speed/max_impulse)-SUM(hexes moved so far)

was used to generate this table.

Phil Kitching
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:12:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Background Music

"Clif" <brclif@digital.net> writes:

> Yes.  What is the song that punctuates the "convoys" of knights riding out
> to battle in "Excalibur".  It is Wagner, right?  But what is the song?

Wagner didn't write it (although a lot of the other music in the movie
*is* by him.)  The piece to which you refer is "O Fortuna", the first
passage of "Carmina Burana", which was written by Carl Orff (1895-1982).

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:16:47 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: [OT] Books/Other Media

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> >>
> >>         There was a Heinlein book, titled "The Number Of The Beast,"
> >> centered around 'pan-theistic multiperson solipsism'--if anybody ever
> >> thought up a universe, it existed, and the heroes were travelling
> >> around through a variety of them.
> >
> > Well, the Silverberg book is "___<something>___ Highway" I think, 'twas
> > quite good.
> 
> Sounds a bit like Zelazny's "Roadmarks".

Arrrrrghh! that's the one I was thinking of. The paperback has a pickup
tootling along the road as a dragon flies overhead...funny how the
memory plays tricks on you..until this moment I'd have sworn it was a
Silverberg novel.

> 
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:29:56 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com>
Subject: Re: Canada and their Media

As a Canadian, I feel qualified to comment.

Ethan Henry wrote:
> 
>    If you have 2 (or a dozen) different explanations for something,
>    the simplest one is usually the correct one. Conspiracies are
>    never simple.
> 

Very true. Conspiracies require secrecy. The ability to keep a secret is
inversely proportional to the square of the number of people keeping that
secret. Since the Canadian government is about as airtight as a hockey net,
there's no way such a conspiracy is viable.

> 2) The Canadian Federal Government is barely able to keep MPs from
>    shitting in their own pants, much less coordinate any conspiracies.

Although, because of the party system, we do a better job of that than the
Americans. Whether or not that's a good thing, though, is open to debate.

> ObTrav2: Imagine if there was an Imperial equivalent to the CBC
> (or BBC for you Brits, which is somewhat different, but mostly
> the same). A single media entity dedicted to celebrating the
> uniqueness & shared values of several trillion people who have
> nothing in common and who, to a certain extent, hate each other.

IMTU, that's what the TAS News Service is. You'll get the facts, but it's
seriously biased towards official government policies.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:41:14 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re:ROM (was Overthrowing Government?) 

> ObTrav: BTW, do you have any conclusive proof that the Rule of Man was TL15?

No way.  ROM was TL12 max, IIRC.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:43:04 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

Define AP?

>Would that be you? AP?
>
- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:46:27 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

> >Who would you rather fight?  A Hell's Angel or a Counter-terrorist Navy
> >Seal?  I'd pick the Hell's Angel, anyday.
> >
> >--Clif
> 
> Hurah... first inteligent thing I've heard you say!
> 
> GO NAVY!


Personally, I'd want to know the conditions of the encounter.  Do I get my 
choice of site, cover, weapons, etc?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:45:44 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Art Bell

>Oh I forgot; I'm already recruited and am brainwashing your
>children...

No children.  (Now someone will chime in with, "...for obvious reasons.")

>You know you really sound like you listen to Art Bell too much...
>

No way.  I'm even worse than that.  I consider Art Bell to be a
sensationalist and figure that with the resources at his disposal, he must
be on Fed payroll, too.

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:50:04 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Gingery <gingerya@ohsu.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?


>>>> "Clif" <brclif@digital.net> 12/22 7:30 AM >>>
>> Oh, so you probably feel you can shape history just like
>> Lee Harvey Oswald or something?
>
>Don't you mean J. Edgar Hoover?


Sounds like I'm not totally alone on this list.

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:55:08 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Background Music

Hmm, well maybe I described the wrong scene...

Okay, thanks for the info.  They're both good.

- --Clif




>"Clif" <brclif@digital.net> writes:
>
>> Yes.  What is the song that punctuates the "convoys" of knights riding
out
>> to battle in "Excalibur".  It is Wagner, right?  But what is the song?
>
>Wagner didn't write it (although a lot of the other music in the movie
>*is* by him.)  The piece to which you refer is "O Fortuna", the first
>passage of "Carmina Burana", which was written by Carl Orff (1895-1982).
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:56:42 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

> In a message dated 12/22/98 7:36:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> brclif@digital.net writes:
> 
> << They
>  keep their eyes out for geniuses experiencing a lack of direction and cash.
>  This list seems to have a *few* bright people on it.  :) >>
> 
> Allright; that's me!! They only pay teachers with a M.ed. $24k US where I
> live....:-). Oh I forgot; I'm already recruited and am brainwashing your
> children...You know you really sound like you listen to Art Bell too much...

Here, Seth, eat this valium.  It's good for you.

Now repeat after me:

"There is no Traveller but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is its Product."

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 15:06:06 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Air leak sound (was: Background Music)

On 12/20/98 at 10:56 AM,  Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> said:

>> That's hard to tell, what exactly _does_ a suit leak sound like? The sound we
>> hear from, for instance, a punctured inner tube is from the air expanding on
>> the _outside_ of the tube.
>[snip]

>One interesting possibility, especially for leaks aboard ship, is
>that a clear musical tone might result -- anything from a
>high-pitched reedy whistle for a small leak in a small compartment,
>to a thundering bass organ note for a large gash in a huge
>compartment.  This would result from turbulence around the hole
>setting up standing waves in the chamber --
>basically the same way a pipe organ or flute works.  The pitch would
>rise and the volume decrease as the compartment evacuated.  Spacers
>would dread hearing such a rushing, rising tone.  It's similar enough
>to what a teakettle does that spacers might jump if someone was
>boiling water in a kettle without their being aware of it.  And
>'teakettling' would be likely spacer slang for the effect:  "I could
>hear the forward engineering bay teakettling, so I went through the
>access tunnel instead..."

Ooo! Craig, remember this for the game!  Ok, so would a rising whistle by a
spacer be an insult?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 15:07:42 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: 2 Pistols?

On 12/20/98 at 01:11 PM,  Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> said:

>Well, here's how I handle it:

>For example, a character is firing two handguns (snap fire) at once.
>The "to-hit" task becomes:

>	To snap fire a projectile weapon.
>	(Skill + Attribute/2) > Difficulty

>Look familiar?

Sure does. ;->

And who says, T4 didn't have *any* good ideas?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:09:30 -0800
From: "Andrew Gingery" <gingerya@ohsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

Agent Provocateur.  If there is a 'they', 'they' love anyone who spreads the idea that 'they' are untouchable.

Feel free to respond off the list.

>>> "Clif" <brclif@digital.net> 12/22 12:43 PM >>>
Define AP?

>Would that be you? AP?
>
- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:11:07 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

> Oh, right!  YOU could "destroy" this nation's government?  You wear Superman
> underoo's or something?

LOL.  I have to say that makes me laugh. ; )

I don't believe in *them* or consipiracies.  This strikes me of the person who
set up "the people" vs "the military."  It's a quite unlikely situation since
people make up the military (of any nation, though they might be an elite,
etc).  That said, all that's needed is a visionary leader, of which I don't
see any in the modern world.  But an inspirational visionary could well
introduce the impetus for say a new Constitutional Convention or something
similar.  If, for example, Bill Clinton should completely flip out and somehow
get a significant fraction of the military to support him, the best case
scenario (for this fictional Clinton) would lead to something like T2ks US w/
at least a MilGov that states it's opposition to the illegal
presidency/dictatorship.  Of course, that's far fetched too.   ; )


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:10:58 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Canada and their Media

- -----Original Message-----
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Canada and their Media


>As a Canadian, I feel qualified to comment.
>
>Ethan Henry wrote:
>>
>>    If you have 2 (or a dozen) different explanations for something,
>>    the simplest one is usually the correct one. Conspiracies are
>>    never simple.

"Never"?  In college, taking Logic, I was taught to beware words like
"never."
>>
>
>Very true. Conspiracies require secrecy. The ability to keep a secret is
>inversely proportional to the square of the number of people keeping that
>secret.

Rather, to the number of disenchanted former "believers" keeping that
secret.

Take religion, for example.  (Something else which has a place in the
Traveller universe...)  Aren't some religions nothing more than a
"conspiracy"?  If you bust out of the close knit group and reveal some of
the scandals associated with a leader or relic of that religion, do you
really believe that the religion, which in all likelihood collects items of
value from its adherents, will refrain from coming against such a person?

> the Canadian government is about as airtight as a hockey net,
>there's no way such a conspiracy is viable.

And, again, my response is that if you were a "lone ranger" who wanted to
expose the conspiracy, likely at some personal expense, how would you get
the word out when you had more than 1 (to say the least) person working
against you to keep it under wraps?  This is the premise of the movie "Enemy
of the State," and you know what they say... "Art imitates Life."

For one, this propaganda you repeat programs people to deny any conspiracy
claim as an improbable "conspiracy theory" (unless you're the First Lady,
then you can get away with words to the effect of "deeply-entrenched Right
Wing Conspiracy" (forgot the first adjective she used).  Then, because you
are the First Lady, the one with access to the resources to both initiate a
conspiracy AND retaliate against those trying to expose it, everyone
BELIEVES her claim?  But if you are Ross Perot and only assert that the Feds
were trying to ruin your daughter's wedding, you're a crackpot.  And, of
course, Ross Perot recanted.  Did he really see the "error" of his
confession?  Did he simply dream it all?  Did he get to be a successful
businessman by being paranoid?  Did he eat some bad pizza?

There seems to be a conspiratorial double-standard going on, here.  ;  )

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:42:25 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Hell's Seals and Navy's Angels

You trying to suck me into being your PBM GM?  :)

I wasn't offering a scenario to play out.  :)  lol

- --Clif



>> >Who would you rather fight?  A Hell's Angel or a Counter-terrorist Navy
>> >Seal?  I'd pick the Hell's Angel, anyday.
>> >
>> >--Clif
>>
>> Hurah... first inteligent thing I've heard you say!
>>
>> GO NAVY!
>
>
>Personally, I'd want to know the conditions of the encounter.  Do I get my
>choice of site, cover, weapons, etc?
>
>Keven
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:44:02 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: High Guard its Product

Heh heh, allusion to Islam, right?

>"There is no Traveller but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is its
Product."
>
- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:58:56 PST
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal 
smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that makes me 
a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?

Jim Clem, B.S.E.
Borg vs Tribbles
"Assimilation is Futile!!"

REALITY.SYS Corrupted:  Re-Boot Universe?  (Y/N/Q)
The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbecility. 
                                       Admiral Lord Fisher 
In God we trust, everyone else SQUAWK MODE IV!!!!!!!!!!!!



- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
To: <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: High Guard its Product
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:44:02 -0500
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

Heh heh, allusion to Islam, right?

>"There is no Traveller but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is its
Product."
>
- --Clif






______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:05:00 -0700
From: Samir <samir@chisp.net>
Subject: Overthrowing the gov thru gaming

I used to belong to the SCA and there is a GREAT but TRUE story (so I have
been told) that the gov sent in people to investigate the SCA. Also the The
IFGS (International Fantasy Gaming Society, or live action fantasy.)
Supposedly has been investigated by Men In Polyester.
Back when I was in the Army, One of my jobs was Nuclear Weapons (12E for
the military guys) One day while I was at work in the building where the
training takes place, I got a call at the guard shack from a gamer buddy.
this is exactly how the call went...

"Building _ _ _ _, This is (My real name),"
Chuck: "Hey this is Chuck. I want to send a package bomb to (Name of NPC in
Traveller game [I KID YOU NOT] we were playing.) He is really getting on my
nerves."
Me: "Ok... do you care that the postal employees are hurt or just him?"

Chuck: "Just him."

Me: "Ok, I will let you know what happens."

Chuck: "Ok bye"

Later The same day, I got another call from another gamer buddy.

Mike : "I have decided to invade (Name of planet that sounds like place on
earth...oops.), I need ships."

Me: "How many?"

Mike: "I got three companys. Freighters will do. Maybe some sort of Escort."

Me: "Ok, what about weapons grades? or will what you have do?"

Mike: "Hmmm How about some upgrades. I'd like to modernize my troops."

Me: "Ok I know what your finances (Meaning his PC) so I will let you know
if you can afford it. Bye"

THE NEXT DAY...I was suddenly pulled into the commanders office and there
was this 'suit' who was giving me the 'I dare you to run' look. The
commander was reading me my rights when he remembered I was an avid
RPG'amer. He ordered me out of his office, explained to the man (who left
really pissed) and then chewed me up one side and down the other. (I made
my weight goal for that month BTW :} ) For the longest time I did not play
RPG while at work.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1302
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1303



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: High Guard its Product 
URGENT!  Far Trader scans needed ASAP!!
Inertial comp. and Gravity
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Art Bell
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Inertial comp. and Gravity
Re: Books with adventure ideas
Re: High Guard its Product
Bye for now...
Re:ROM (was Overthrowing Government?) 
Star Frontiers (TSR)
Re: Dimension Travel Books 
Re: Canada and their Media
Re: Background Music
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Art Bell
Re: Grendalls Daughter
HG Configuration question
Re: Background Music 
Re: High Guard its Product 
Re: Canada and their Media

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:12:12 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal 
> smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that makes me 
> a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?

Yup.

Now go your way and sin no more.

<grin>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep




tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:30:08 -0800
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: URGENT!  Far Trader scans needed ASAP!!

Hello all,
  I'm in desperate need of ANY and all existing pics of the Far Trader,
circa CT, MT, and G:T.  I have the deckplans for the ship but no external
references.  I need these to try to get some 3D shots of the ship together
in time for inclusion in G:T Far Trader Sourcebook.  The deadline for
artwork is Jan 15th and I'm a wee bit rushed.  If any of you have / have the
ability to scan existing pics of the Far Trader, please e-mail them to me
personally at the address below (NOT through the address on the website).

Thanks,
Jesse DeGraff
www.vision-forge-graphics.com
fenris@slip.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:30:57 -0800
From: Justin Engler <jengler@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Inertial comp. and Gravity

A couple quick questions for everyone...A TL 12 inertial
compensator/artificial grav unit can compensate for 4 g of acceleration
(5 while in a workstation)...could a crew do all their combat duties in
0g, and reroute the artificial grav unit to provide an extra g of
compensation (making it 5/6 in ws)?  Or is that what's assumed by the
extra g 'in workstation?'

Secondly, What is the rating on g tanks?  Can a crew use several means
at once?  (eg.  A crew in g-tanks with inertial compensation and wearing
'g-suits' from CSC)  Would this be common practice in canon/ytu?

(I ask because it seems that fighters can pull multiple Gs in turns, and
we can compensate for most of it at primative TL 7-8...seems like
starships could do a lot better...)

        Justin Engler

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:52:59 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

> From: Clif 
> They
> keep their eyes out for geniuses experiencing a lack of direction and
cash.
> This list seems to have a *few* bright people on it.  :)

Hey!  Recruit me!  Recruit me!

OK, I ain't a genius, but...

Alan Bradley

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:43:07 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Art Bell

In a message dated 12/22/98 12:53:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
brclif@digital.net writes:

<< Oh I forgot; I'm already recruited and am brainwashing your
 >children...
 
 No children.  (Now someone will chime in with, "...for obvious reasons.")
 
 >You know you really sound like you listen to Art Bell too much...
 >
 No way.  I'm even worse than that.  I consider Art Bell to be a
 sensationalist and figure that with the resources at his disposal, he must
 be on Fed payroll, too.
 
 --Clif
  >>

ROFL!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:45:31 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

In a message dated 12/22/98 1:03:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< 
 Here, Seth, eat this valium.  It's good for you.
 
 Now repeat after me:
 
 "There is no Traveller but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is its Product."
 
 Keven >>

LOL, and I'm a CT ' er too (though I use the task system so I guess I'm a half
assed heretic...:-) )

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:09:49 EST
From: Thendal@aol.com
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

I don't know who wrote about the Apache, but I suggest he do a little more
research.

1. All militias are not gun-toting racist rednecks, in actuality many of them
are ex-military and even "minority" types who feel that the Federal agencies
have violated the constitutional rights of americans.

2. Have you ever stopped to think, that they might be right?

3. The number of militias in this country have doubled since Waco and the OKC
bombing.

4. An apache like any machine can be taken or destroyed in any number of
imaginative ways.

Before one goes believing everything they hear on the "news" they should
consider that the so called "press" is the darling of big government.

Now back to TRAVELLER

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:11:08 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Inertial comp. and Gravity

Justin Engler wrote:
> 
> A couple quick questions for everyone...A TL 12 inertial
> compensator/artificial grav unit can compensate for 4 g of acceleration
> (5 while in a workstation)...could a crew do all their combat duties in
> 0g, and reroute the artificial grav unit to provide an extra g of
> compensation (making it 5/6 in ws)?  Or is that what's assumed by the
> extra g 'in workstation?'
> 
> Secondly, What is the rating on g tanks?  Can a crew use several means
> at once?  (eg.  A crew in g-tanks with inertial compensation and wearing
> 'g-suits' from CSC)  Would this be common practice in canon/ytu?
> 
> (I ask because it seems that fighters can pull multiple Gs in turns, and
> we can compensate for most of it at primative TL 7-8...seems like
> starships could do a lot better...)
> 
>         Justin Engler

I am but a humble apprentice gearhead, but I shall endeavor to answer
what questions I can....

1.  IMO, based on Table 214 of FF&S2, and the description of G
compensation on page 80, providing artificial gravity and compensating
for acceleration are linked, and therefore, like love and marriage, "you
can't have one without the other."  Workstations provide an additional
1G of crew capability because they can hold the crewmember in place
against acceleration.  There has been an ongoing debate on TML about
whether a ship whose decks are perpendicular to the direction of thrust
can compensate for more Gs than one whose decks are parallel to the
direction of thrust (I haven't made my mind up about that issue).

2.  I see no reason why one cannot combine G-comp with G-tanks.  I
wouldn't allow G-suits to be effective under most starship
circumstances, as they are (IIRC) best suited (pun intended) for
transient acceleration effects, rather than the sustained acceleration
normally found in starship operations.  Keep in mind that "G-comp
stacking" is not allowed under FF&S2....

Late 20th century fighter aircraft can, indeed, pull multiple Gs. 
However, the aircrew can only do so for a very short period of time (a
few seconds).  Starships can accelerate at multiple Gs for hours or
days, and thus the compensation required is more extensive.

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:18:38 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Books with adventure ideas

Joseph Kimball wrote:
> 
> I read two books recently that have a very nice feel to them, that have
> lots of ideas for Traveller.  They are:  "Ports of Call" and "Night
> Lamp" by Jack Vance.  I felt like they had a very Travellerish feel to
> the planets visited.  Ports of Call had lots of details about running
> what is essentially a Free Trader.  The FTL drive is not Traveller's
> Jump Drive, but aside from that one quibble, the feel is very
> Travellerish.  The background (humans spreading through what J.V. called
> the "Gaean Reach") approximates the feel of humans having spent several
> millenia in space settling various planets.  This is clearly not the 3rd
> Imperium we all know and love (except for those of you who are heretics
> of couse <VBG>), but (aside from the FTL drive) could very easily be a
> parallel universe.
> - Joseph

Of course, if you _really_ want to knock your players' socks off, have
them encounter Haviland Tuf, master of the former Ecological Engineering
Corps biowar seedship _Ark_.  _Ark_ is about 30 km long, 5 km wide, and
3 km high, and has the capability to, well, unleash fearsome bioweapons,
both micro (plagues) and macro ("monsters").

Read _Tuf Voyaging_, by George R.R. Martin, for further details.... 

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:47:56 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

"jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal
>smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that makes me
>a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?

<look offstage> ERIS! You've got company.....

Dom (of the revisionist T4.1 sect whole believe that T4.1's draft was the
but the latest incarnation of Classic Traveller, and High Guard is *still*
its product ;-) )

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:57:22 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Bye for now...

I preparing to leave to see the in-laws for Christmas.

Try not to get too enthusiastic and swamp my mailbox while I'm away, eh?

Fraternal Felicitations to you all.

Dom

'Domain of Deneb Navy reports that Domain of Deneb borders are closed
effective immediately for indefinite future. Anyone attempting to enter the
Domain of Deneb is subject to search and seizure or possible destruction.
Communication will not be accepted. Domain of Deneb goes off the air
immediately. We keep the flame. Good luck. Communciation ends.'

or... ;-)

'Domain of Dom reports that borders are closed effective immediately for
the next week. Anyone attempting to enter the Domain of Dom is subject to
having their mail stored on my ISP's server in a period of purgatory.
Communication will not be read. Domain of Dom goes off the air immediately
(well, in the next 12 hours). We keep the flame. Good luck. Communciation
ends.'

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:42:23 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re:ROM (was Overthrowing Government?) 

 "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote:

>> ObTrav: BTW, do you have any conclusive proof that the Rule of Man was TL15?
>
>No way.  ROM was TL12 max, IIRC.

He!He!He!

Check out the TML archives from about a year ago and search on 'Leroy' and
'RoM' and you'll understand this reference better....

Steven Hudson, I am disappointed you didn't bite.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:59:57 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Star Frontiers (TSR)

At one FLGS in my area there is a bundle of a used copy of Star
Frontiers by TSR along with 10 modules (a rules expansion and 9 others,
I can't see what the other 9 are).  This bundle is being offered for
US$25.
I would like opinions of whether there is enough good material in this
package to bother getting it and mining it for Traveller ideas.  This
would put off getting other materials that are specifically Traveller,
so I would like some feedback before making a decision.
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:09:46 +0000
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Dimension Travel Books 

> Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca> wrote:
> 
> >Are you sure it was Robert Silverberg?  Larry Niven wrote a short called
> >"All the Myriad Ways" on this topic, and a collection of amusing shorts
> >called (I think) "Flight of the Unicorn" about a guy trying to time travel
> >but ending up slipping "sideways" as he travels back, so that he ends up
> >in all sorts of fantasy worlds and the like.  Very fun stuff.
> 
> Definitely Silverberg. Certainly not Niven (this was before my Niven phase)
> _Flight of the Unicorn_ was the title of a novel by Anne McCaffery too IIRC.
> 

If this is Silverberg, it's a short story called "Trips", first pub 1973, which appears in the collections "The Feast of St. Dionysus" and "Beyond the Safe Zone". There's a home page for Silverberg at http://www.connectexpress.com/~jon/silvhome.htm

Also check out the superb SF Resource Guide at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2801/sf-resource-guide.html if you want to find other SF authors' home pages, etc.

A similar novel in terms of theme, good but not great, is Michael Kube-Mcdowell's Alternities.

And the Niven collection is "the Flight of the Horse"

M

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:54:54 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Canada and their Media

At 10:11 AM 12/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>And my assertion is that either there is a higher government over Canada
>making that happen or the Canadian government is permitting it to happen,
>for whatever reason.  Their motives would be more easily discerned by you
>than by me.
>
>--Clif
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
>Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 1:01 AM
>Subject: Humour?
>
>
>>>Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?
>>... Liberals are some of the best
>>>politicians because they don't let scruples or ethics get in the way of
>>>their scramble for power.
>>
>>  Ah, so you are familiar with the Canadian political scene :)
>>
>>  Hmm, we have a State TV corporation, and the PM's office can't
>>even prevent them from _encouraging_ subversives...
>>
>>

I believe that even in Canada, there is a tradition of Freedom of the Press.

Shees, even MSNBC runs negative news stories about Microsoft!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:56:18 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Background Music

At 10:14 AM 12/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Yes.  What is the song that punctuates the "convoys" of knights riding out
>to battle in "Excalibur".  It is Wagner, right?  But what is the song?
>
>--Clif
Either "Hall of the Mountain King" or "Come the King".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:02:09 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

At 10:25 AM 12/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>No, I said I tried to post the accompanying QUESTIONS and PROBLEMS of the
>story and the accompanying picture, not the story and picture, themselves.
>
>I had some kind of Internet Regulatory Official contact me telling me my
>post had been deleted in so many newsgroups.  Admittedly, I had spammed it.
>But that's the thing.  SPAM gives the average Joe the opportunity to really
>get the word out, but the Feds have emasculated the internet...
>
>--Clif

Sounds more like you ticked someone off (not possible, right, you're such a
likeable fella) who had the power to send a kill on that message. There is
no Internet Regulatory Office to have officials.

Know anyone who works for an ISP with their own news server?

>-----Original Message-----
>From: dberry@hooked.net <dberry@hooked.net>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
>Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 6:39 AM
>Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?
>
>
>>At 10:19 PM 12/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>>It's like the time I tried to expose the propaganda behind the whole Noam
>>>Friedman story.  He was the Israeli soldier about 2 years ago who
>allegedly
>>>opened fire into a Palestinian marketplace without cause.  Anyone who saw
>>>the picture of Noam Friedman in the act should have said, "Things that may
>>>you go hmmm..."
>>>
>>>I tried to post the QUESTIONS and PROBLEMS of the story and the
>accompanying
>>>picture on the Usenet and it was deleted so fast my head spun.  And that
>was
>>>in late '96 or early '97...
>>
>>Hmm..  "accompanying picture".. let me guess, you tried to post a binary
>>file to non-binary groups.  And you're surprised you message got canceled?
>>
>>>You can bet that there is at least one secret squirrel who has made it his
>>>job to familiarize himself with the Traveller subculture.
>>
>>ROTFLMAO!!
>>
>>The image of the poor FBI goon assigned to monitor this list!  "Chief,
>>they're planning to send us a near-C rock populated with a sentient
>>computer Virus and lesbian Aslan living under a feudal technocracy.. they
>>even have effective small fighters!"
>>
>>"Take a pill and lie down, Mulder."
>>
>>>Oh, right!  YOU could "destroy" this nation's government?  You wear
>Superman
>>>underoo's or something?
>>
>>USMC trained Sniper.  Which of course, makes me one of "them".
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>+------------------------------------+
>>| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
>>|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
>>+------------------------------------+
>>|  111     Embrace Fascism.     111  |
>>|  |||  The uniforms look cool  |||  |
>>+------------------------------------+
>>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:17:07 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

At 03:46 PM 12/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> >Who would you rather fight?  A Hell's Angel or a Counter-terrorist Navy
>> >Seal?  I'd pick the Hell's Angel, anyday.
>> >
>> >--Clif
>> 
>> Hurah... first inteligent thing I've heard you say!
>> 
>> GO NAVY!
>
>
>Personally, I'd want to know the conditions of the encounter.  Do I get my 
>choice of site, cover, weapons, etc?
>
>Keven

If you're given the choices, then you're definately not going to fight the
SEAL...


or if you do, he'd shoot you in your car on the way to the fight :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:10:16 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

>>"Take a pill and lie down, Mulder."
>
>Yeah, yeah, very funny, but I didn't say "with this list".  I said, "with
>the Traveller subculture."  From where do you think the Feds are going to
>recruit collaborators?  What was the profile they gave in "Wargames"?  They
>keep their eyes out for geniuses experiencing a lack of direction and cash.
>This list seems to have a *few* bright people on it.  :)
>

So that's who's been following me?!?!

>>USMC trained Sniper.  Which of course, makes me one of "them".
>
>Oh, so you probably feel you can shape history just like Lee Harvey Oswald
>or something?  Okay, I can understand your self-confidence, but I think
>you'd find it a bit more challenging to carry it off, these days.

One soldier, one bullet, one target, new shape for the future.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:08:43 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

At 10:32 AM 12/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Maybe you should give the other things I've said a second look, then?

I basically branded you a paranoid self deluded <for lack of a less
offensive phrase> individual from the moment I read the Osama ben Laden post.

No offense intended of course.

>--Clif
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
>Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 9:17 AM
>Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?
>
>
>>>Who would you rather fight?  A Hell's Angel or a Counter-terrorist Navy
>>>Seal?  I'd pick the Hell's Angel, anyday.
>>>
>>>--Clif
>>
>>Hurah... first inteligent thing I've heard you say!
>>
>>GO NAVY!
>>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:21:17 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

At 06:09 PM 12/22/98 EST, you wrote:
>I don't know who wrote about the Apache, but I suggest he do a little more
>research.
>
>1. All militias are not gun-toting racist rednecks, in actuality many of them
>are ex-military and even "minority" types who feel that the Federal agencies
>have violated the constitutional rights of americans.

I'll back that... former head of the Ohio militia was black, and now his
Jewish wife has taken over.

He actually appeared before Congress the same day Olsen did, but his
testimony was blacked off of CSPAN. I know someone who has the live
broadcast on tape with the General's testimony.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:15:19 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Art Bell

>>You know you really sound like you listen to Art Bell too much...
>>
>No way.  I'm even worse than that.  I consider Art Bell to be a
>sensationalist and figure that with the resources at his disposal, he must
>be on Fed payroll, too.
>
>--Clif

Now THAT's paranoid.

When you think the ANTI-governmentalists are on the government payroll,
then you odvoisly have been around leaky microwaves too long.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:06:00 -0500
From: "Catherine Tannenbaum" <cat@perkworks.com>
Subject: Re: Grendalls Daughter

From the looks on it the ship is a Beowolf class merchant.  Deckplans are
available in the GURPs Traveller manual.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:21:24 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: HG Configuration question

I'm still arguing with myself about the configuration of the 2500 ton boxer
I'm working on.  What HG configuration would you assign the hull?  The
profiles are still on my site at:
http://www.perkworks.com/traveller/downloads/BoxerP.gif

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:39:44 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Background Music 

dberry@hooked.net writes:
>>Can personal use be defined as burning one for a friend?  Just kidding.
>
>Actually, as long as you don't charge for it, there is no limit on
>trading.
> This how Deadheads have operated for years.

Sorry Doug, but giving away a copy you have made _is_ breaking copyright,
as is giving away the original while retaining a copy. We could trade
sound effects only if you and I swapped CDs/tapes/records.

The Grateful Dead had a different attitude to copying, and gave permission
to their fans to do so.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:40:53 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal
> >smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that makes me
> >a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?
> 
> <look offstage> ERIS! You've got company.....
> 
> Dom (of the revisionist T4.1 sect whole believe that T4.1's draft was the
> but the latest incarnation of Classic Traveller, and High Guard is *still*
> its product ;-) )

Good, good.  Keep the faith.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:52:32 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Canada and their Media

On Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:10:58 -0500, "Clif" <brclif@digital.net> wrote:

>>Very true. Conspiracies require secrecy. The ability to keep a secret is
>>inversely proportional to the square of the number of people keeping that
>>secret.
>
>Rather, to the number of disenchanted former "believers" keeping that
>secret.
>
>Take religion, for example.  (Something else which has a place in the
>Traveller universe...)  Aren't some religions nothing more than a
>"conspiracy"?  If you bust out of the close knit group and reveal some of
>the scandals associated with a leader or relic of that religion, do you
>really believe that the religion, which in all likelihood collects items of
>value from its adherents, will refrain from coming against such a person?

Funny you should mention conspiracies and religion in the same post, since
I've felt for a while now that they both proceed from essentially the same
impulse:  the desire to have a single root cause to explain multiple 
observed phenomena.  Thus, rather than having many unconnected processes,
everything stems from one source.  Much simpler.  Any question can be 
answered with "God" or "the Illuminati", take your pick.

A far more disturbing concept for many people is that there's NO ONE in
charge.  It's all chance, physics and self-interest at play with each
other.  No hand at the controls, guiding things to a Purpose, great or
dark.  Just us poor dumb humans, muddling through as best we can.  And
the paranoid really IS just an insignificant speck that no one cares
about enough to plot against.

Scary, hm?

- --------------
Kelly St.Clair
kellys@efn.org

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1303
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 23 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1304



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Snipers (was Re: Overthrowing Government?)
Re: Snipers (was Re: Overthrowing Government?)
re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard
Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard 
Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)
Re: HG Configuration question
Re: ROM (was Overthrowing Government?)
Sniper & Demo Quotes
Re: Background Music
Re: Background Music
Re: Canada and their Media
Re: Grendalls Daughter
Re: Rule of Man
Re: Zhodani conspiracy theorists!
Heresy?
Re: Rule of Man TL?
Humour? II
Basic Game Books
Re: Sylean Battleship Refueling
Background music
Re: GT: combat example
Re:RPGs in boot camp
Re: HG Configuration question
Re: High Guard its Product 
Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)
Re: High Guard its Product
re: URGENT!  Far Trader scans needed ASAP!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:32:08 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Snipers (was Re: Overthrowing Government?)

>>>USMC trained Sniper.  Which of course, makes me one of "them".
>>
>>Oh, so you probably feel you can shape history just like Lee Harvey Oswald
>>or something?  Okay, I can understand your self-confidence, but I think
>>you'd find it a bit more challenging to carry it off, these days.
>
>One soldier, one bullet, one target, new shape for the future.
>

        "Long distance is almost as good as being there...."
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:52:24 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Snipers (was Re: Overthrowing Government?)

At 10:32 pm 12/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>>>USMC trained Sniper.  Which of course, makes me one of "them".
>>>
>>>Oh, so you probably feel you can shape history just like Lee
Harvey Oswald
>>>or something?  Okay, I can understand your self-confidence, but I
think
>>>you'd find it a bit more challenging to carry it off, these days.
>>
>>One soldier, one bullet, one target, new shape for the future.
>>
>
>        "Long distance is almost as good as being there...."

	"Don't bother running, you'll only die tired ..."

- -- Dave Golden

   "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."
   George Bernard Shaw

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 21:12:55 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard

On 12/21/98 at 09:17 AM,  Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> said:

>ObTrav: As Dave said, moral dilemmas are a great way to spice up a
>Traveller campaign...unless you have the odd fortune of having a set
>of players with no moral scruples whatsoever. 

>"We torture and maim the guy at the bar until he tells us where the
>missing starship is." (soon followed by) "Why is everybody shooting
>at us?"

Ha! Ha! 

In my PBEM, the PC's have finally made it to the Mark system to claim the ship they inherited. Unfortunately, the ship seems to be missing.  I'm sure if they could get hold of *me* they would torture me until I told they where it is hid. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:30:26 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard 

> On 12/21/98 at 09:17 AM,  Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> said:
> 
> >ObTrav: As Dave said, moral dilemmas are a great way to spice up a
> >Traveller campaign...unless you have the odd fortune of having a set
> >of players with no moral scruples whatsoever. 
> 
> >"We torture and maim the guy at the bar until he tells us where the
> >missing starship is." (soon followed by) "Why is everybody shooting
> >at us?"
> 
> Ha! Ha! 
> 
> In my PBEM, the PC's have finally made it to the Mark system to claim the ship they inherited. Unfortunately, the ship seems to be missing.  I'm sure if they could get hold of *me* they would torture me until I told they where it is hid. ;->

What makes you think that, Eris?  <grinning, oiling the whip>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:44:24 -0600
From: "James Pearson" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)

I can't speak for any of the modules, but a couple of years ago I picked up a 
copy of the main rules (in a box) at a flea market for $2.  It was _very_ much 
like CT (in its rules).  A couple of good aliens, and some interesting 
background and weapons.  The only thing I've ever really used from it though 
were the little cardboard counters!

> Subject: Star Frontiers (TSR)
> 
> At one FLGS in my area there is a bundle of a used copy of Star
> Frontiers by TSR along with 10 modules (a rules expansion and 9 others, I
> can't see what the other 9 are).  This bundle is being offered for US$25.
> I would like opinions of whether there is enough good material in this
> package to bother getting it and mining it for Traveller ideas.  This
> would put off getting other materials that are specifically Traveller, so
> I would like some feedback before making a decision. - - Joseph


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:35:01 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: HG Configuration question

Paul,

My first reaction to the configuration is 7 - dispersed.

Then, as I think about it, and considering that everything is covered by
a smooth (streamlined or semi-streamlined?) hull maybe 4 - close
structure would be appropriate.

Mike Peters

Paul Schirf wrote:
> 
> I'm still arguing with myself about the configuration of the 2500 ton boxer
> I'm working on.  What HG configuration would you assign the hull?  The
> profiles are still on my site at:
> http://www.perkworks.com/traveller/downloads/BoxerP.gif
> 
> Paul

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:39:26 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: ROM (was Overthrowing Government?)

But, Dom, he did... his lip... his chair arm... and finally the modem
connection... just to keep from replying! ;^)


Mike Peters

SD Mooney wrote:
> 
> He!He!He!
> 
> Check out the TML archives from about a year ago and search on 'Leroy' and
> 'RoM' and you'll understand this reference better....
> 
> Steven Hudson, I am disappointed you didn't bite.
> 
> Dom
> 
> ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
> "Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
> that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
> You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
> 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
> MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:16:11 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Sniper & Demo Quotes

"There are not many problems that cannot be solved by the suitable
application of high explosives."

- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: David J. Golden <goldendj@pcisys.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: Snipers (was Re: Overthrowing Government?)


>At 10:32 pm 12/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>>>>USMC trained Sniper.  Which of course, makes me one of "them".
>>>>
>>>>Oh, so you probably feel you can shape history just like Lee
>Harvey Oswald
>>>>or something?  Okay, I can understand your self-confidence, but I
>think
>>>>you'd find it a bit more challenging to carry it off, these days.
>>>
>>>One soldier, one bullet, one target, new shape for the future.
>>>
>>
>>        "Long distance is almost as good as being there...."
>
> "Don't bother running, you'll only die tired ..."
>
>-- Dave Golden
>
>   "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."
>   George Bernard Shaw
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:24:47 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Background Music

Could you be thinking of Carl Orf - Carmina Burana 

At 18:56 22/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 10:14 AM 12/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Yes.  What is the song that punctuates the "convoys" of knights riding out
>>to battle in "Excalibur".  It is Wagner, right?  But what is the song?
>>
>>--Clif
>Either "Hall of the Mountain King" or "Come the King".
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:30:31 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Background Music

try this.

http://genius.rider.edu/~kavchok/music.htm

At 18:56 22/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 10:14 AM 12/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Yes.  What is the song that punctuates the "convoys" of knights riding out
>>to battle in "Excalibur".  It is Wagner, right?  But what is the song?
>>
>>--Clif
>Either "Hall of the Mountain King" or "Come the King".
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:38:46 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Canada and their Media

>
>1) Occam's Razor
>   http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/occams_razor.html
>
>   If you have 2 (or a dozen) different explanations for something,
>   the simplest one is usually the correct one. Conspiracies are
>   never simple.
>
Really this is an Aesthetic tool.  All other things being equal, go for the
simpler solution because simpler things ideas are easier to manipulate (if
you'll forgive my handling of concepts). [:)]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:26:48 -0800
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: Re: Grendalls Daughter

Also from many CT & MT sources.

Jesse




- -----Original Message-----
From: Catherine Tannenbaum <cat@perkworks.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Grendalls Daughter


>>From the looks on it the ship is a Beowolf class merchant.  Deckplans are
>available in the GURPs Traveller manual.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:21:36 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Rule of Man

>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
...
>ObTrav: BTW, do you have any conclusive proof that the Rule of Man was TL15?

  It takes more than "gentle" roasting (or was it being "baked"?) to fully
understand the complexities of the true TL of the RoM. After some research
I intend to start running through stats on I:E sample vehicles by Striker -
the transport for the Terran cannon-fodder will definitely not be a truly
serious post.

        :>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:22:42 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Zhodani conspiracy theorists!

>From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
...
>ObTrav: Zhodani conspiracy theorists. Now THAT is some major mind-
>wiping cover-up stuff. Or is it just normal life in the Consulate?

  You'd never really know, a la "double-think" in _1984_. If the way
in which they pruned their political society pre-interstellar travel
was of that nature and maintained since (quite possible if the system
is self-perpetuating) then how could you tell if a belief system that
they rejected was merely incompatible with their values or whether they
were hard-wired during the socialization process to reject it or be
unable to consider it due to programmed revulsion or intentional lack
of the concepts to work around it?

  And, of course, the Zho's simply don't consider "emotional sovereignty"...

  I really shouldn't listen to 1984 soundtrack excerpts at work.

>ObTrav2: Imagine if there was an Imperial equivalent to the CBC
>(or BBC for you Brits, which is somewhat different, but mostly 
>the same). A single media entity dedicted to celebrating the 
>uniqueness & shared values of several trillion people who have
>nothing in common and who, to a certain extent, hate each other.

  A better understanding of the above could explain why the 3I
doesn't bother shooting themselves in the foot on that count :)

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:23:11 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Heresy?

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
...
>"There is no Traveller but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is its Product."


  Upon closer examination you may be in danger of serious doctrinal error,
as even followers of later editions can be redeemed merely by accepting the
superiority of High Guard (2nd ed; first ed. is _right out_ - burning at the
stake is involved here) or a similar authorized product following the plan 
of presenting sophisticated, yet playable detail.

  Consult your conscience closely before considering formats over 6"x9".

The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:32:35 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Rule of Man TL?

>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
...
>Steven Hudson, I am disappointed you didn't bite.

  I'm working on a small essay on the topic, actually :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:32:44 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Humour? II

>From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
>Subject: Re: Canada and their Media
...
>I believe that even in Canada, there is a tradition of Freedom of the Press.
                ^^^^

  Ah, you've realized that we're just a bunch of wannabe Stalinists?  :>

  FWIW, given the corporate structures of modern North America "freedom
of the press" is pretty damned near a joke, and the CBC is probably the
only thing preventing us from being worse off than the US.

  Hmm, I can see names for Terran I:E hardware in the pipe already...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:33:11 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Basic Game Books

Could you please tell me where I could get basic Traveller game books?

I.E., Classic Traveller, MegaTraveller, or anything else if the first two
just aren't available anymore.

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:25:13 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Sylean Battleship Refueling

Patrik Holmstrom wrote:

>>A couple of well-remembered disasters in the past few centuries
>>plus the occasional accident where fuel shuttles got their
>>high-speed skimming vector wrong has convinced practically
>>everyone in the navy that emergency refueling was more to be
>>feared than the enemy.

>The Sylean Federation navy haven't meet any serious opposition
>in a while, have they? 

   Not really.
   In Imperial date -201, the expansionist Sylean Federation
launched an offensive against the Interstellar confederacy. The
Confederacy did well in battle but their military and industrial
capacity had been severely damaged in a civil war. The Syleans
outmaneuvered the Confederacy, but were fighting a full subsector
away from home (a long way, by TL-11 standards). The fighting
came to an end about -100 when Syleans withdrew their forces to
engage the Chanestin Kingdom.
   In -107 an official Sylean trade delegation was executed for
"subversion and espionage" by the Chanestin Queen. The ensuing
Chanestin war alternated between hot and cold and rapidly
resulted in a standoff. The last Sylean offensive began in -69
but fizzled and degenerated into attrition and minor skirmishes
in the subsector between the two governments. A peace treaty was
signed in -44.
   IMTU the current date is -27, so almost no one still in
service has ever seen a "real" battle. Also, the largest
engagement fought since the Rule of Man amounted to fewer than a
dozen ships on either side.  Expect the next war to force a
shakeup of the whole SF Navy.  Zhunatsu Industries is looking for
naval architects who aren't afraid to critique current design.
[Any takers on the list here?]. Cleon thinks his senior naval
architecture staff argued too much about Fusion Plus and is
offering them early retirement.
  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:10:35 -0700
From: Samir <samir@chisp.net>
Subject: Background music

I picked up the sound track for Alien ressurection, I used it for a gurps
game I ran. I got to thinking, it would be great for that derilect (sp)
bohemouth the players run across.

As I watch The Movie (Alien resurrection) It feels (plays) like a traveller
setting but without the jump engines. 

BTW I love the three lines from the movie...

"We are headed to earth? (Curseing) I'd rather take my chances with those
things!"

and

NPC Groaning, clutching his chest Suddenly he realizes everyone is watching
him with dread on their faces. "I'm okay, I'm okay (cough), really!"

And the best one of all
"Who are you!"
"I'm the monsters mother."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:33:23 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: GT: combat example

>Remember - the mandatory vector is created by looking at the relationship
>between a ship's previous position and it's final position after the
>movement turn is done.  So, while this addes a litle bit extra in a step,
>it remains true to inertial physics as we know it, removes any chance of
>argument...
>Player: "It could not have hit me"
>GM    : "hmmm, you are inside the area the missile could have hit via
>movement right?   Can't argue the fact that you are inside the triangle can
>you?"
> I respectfully submit that this method will remove all arguements against
>permitting realistic velocity impacts save one - game balance.

I respectfully disagree. A triangle between the previous position,
"mandatory " position and final position will cover a *lot* more area than
what the missile could have hit via movement.

Consider three points in the shape of an isoceles triangle. The path the
missile follows will be a conic section from the previous to the final
position. It does not and can not pass through all the points in the
triangle.

Moreover, consider a ship and missile heading toward the same point at
right angles. If the ships just coast at high speed and do not thrust they
will hit each other. Yet the triangle of positions for both objects will
not include the other object and this rule will claim they miss.

IMHO the only way of resolving this is to break the movement into as many
steps as the faster of the two involved objects and move each 1 hex at a
time. Divide the faster object's velocity by the slower object's to find
how many hexes the fast object moves before the slower one does. Divide the
faster object's velocity by each maximun acceleration to find how often
each object can change its vector by one hex. You hit the ship if your
counters occupy the same hex at the same time, just like in real life.

This is only necessary  if you care if two objects collide, and there is
some dispute if they do or not. With detonation-laser missiles, this is an
extremely rare situation.

- --
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:33:47 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re:RPGs in boot camp

>An advantage of CT over D&D and TNE: 
>
>It is easier to fold up 2D6 than 1D20
>

 Gimme some decent paper (not newsprint), a compass (the type that draws
circles),
a ruler, a ball-point pen, and some white glue and I'll make you d4, d8, d10,
and
d20 inside an hour (the time it takes for the glue to set). D12s are also
possible,
I just don't remember how...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:54:49 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: HG Configuration question

"Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com> asks:

>I'm still arguing with myself about the configuration of the 2500 ton boxer
>I'm working on.  What HG configuration would you assign the hull?  The
>profiles are still on my site at:
>http://www.perkworks.com/traveller/downloads/BoxerP.gif
>
>Paul

 Either a Cylinder or a really tweaked Wedge. Close Structure is also
possible.

 This probably isn't helping...

Cheers,

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:13:00 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 
> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 3:12 PM
> 
> > Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal 
> > smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that makes me

> > a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?
> Yup.

Ah, but is it not written in the sands of time, that all gentiles are
Brothers of the Book...  And as such while they my game in the way they
choose, are they not gaming just the same?

> Now go your way and sin no more.

How can one sin when one is doing the work of The Grandfather?  If one can
sin doing the work of The Grandfather, does this not mean all life then is
sin?

> <grin>

<Wide Evil Grin>

Now, my Comparative Religions class has finally paid off...

> Keven

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:23:51 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)

> From: Joseph Kimball <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
> Subject: Star Frontiers (TSR)
> 
> At one FLGS in my area there is a bundle of a used copy of Star
> Frontiers by TSR along with 10 modules (a rules expansion and 9 others,
> I can't see what the other 9 are).  This bundle is being offered for
> US$25.
> I would like opinions of whether there is enough good material in this
> package to bother getting it and mining it for Traveller ideas.  This
> would put off getting other materials that are specifically Traveller,
> so I would like some feedback before making a decision.
> - Joseph

Hell, yes...  There is...  'Nuff said...

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:25:33 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: Re: High Guard its Product
> >Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal
> >smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that makes me
> >a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?
> 
> <look offstage> ERIS! You've got company.....
> 
> Dom (of the revisionist T4.1 sect whole believe that T4.1's draft was the
> but the latest incarnation of Classic Traveller, and High Guard is
*still*
> its product ;-) )
> 
> ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------

<Calling out from offstage> You said that when I showed up...

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:33:55 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: URGENT!  Far Trader scans needed ASAP!!

"Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net> wrote:

>  I'm in desperate need of ANY and all existing pics of the Far Trader,
>circa CT, MT, and G:T.  I have the deckplans for the ship but no external
>references.  I need these to try to get some 3D shots of the ship together
>in time for inclusion in G:T Far Trader Sourcebook.  The deadline for
>artwork is Jan 15th and I'm a wee bit rushed.  If any of you have / have the
>ability to scan existing pics of the Far Trader, please e-mail them to me
>personally at the address below (NOT through the address on the website).

Am about to go away on holiday so haven't had a chance to go through my
material. Check out The Flaming Eye (MT), Imperial Encyclopedia (MT) and
MTj (no 4 I think) if you have them. If not and no one else comes through
contact me off list next tuesday as a reminder, and I'll scan my copies.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1304
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 23 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1305



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

BITS website/Software
Re: High Guard its Product
Crew Size on Naval Warships
Tis the Season
Re: Dimension Travel Books
Re: Inertial comp. and Gravity
Re: Overthrowing Government?
re: Canada and their Media
Availability of Free Trader deckplans (was re: Grendalls Daughter)
Re: Background Music
Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double-standard? 
Re: GT: Missiles and optional rules
Re: GT: combat example

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:21:50 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: BITS website/Software

BITS (British Isles Traveller Support)

_______

Webmasters' apology -

The various items of software which Rob Prior wrote for Traveller for use
on MacOS computers are held in a linked page on my personal site (pending
transfer to the BITS site). Unfortunately, at some stage during the
building of the BITS site the subdirectory containing the demos and
freeware was accidently deleted. As a result you make have got a 'file not
found' error if you tried to find any of Rob's demos. This should now be
resolved as I have restored the folder from my Backup CD. Apologies for any
problems.

At the same time I revised the QSDS software demo to a later version.

Have a good Christmas.

Dom (BITS webmaster)

_____

BITS website http://www.bits.org.uk/

Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises Portions of
the Traveller material may be (c)1977 to 1998 Far Future Enterprises. All
rights reserved. Used under permission of License.

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:29:34 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

 "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:

Dom> <look offstage> ERIS! You've got company.....
>
> Dom (of the revisionist T4.1 sect whole believe that T4.1's draft was the
> but the latest incarnation of Classic Traveller, and High Guard is
*still*
> its product ;-) )

<Calling out from offstage> You said that when I showed up...


See - only the truly faithful can stay on the path to enlightenment through
the the Guidance of Book 5, Adventure 5 and Supplement 9. ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:07:52 +0000
From: "Jens Maskus" <Jens.Maskus@stud.uni-hannover.de>
Subject: Crew Size on Naval Warships

Does anybody know the crew size of Warships like the USS Enterprise, Iowa, Nimitz, 
Nuclear Subs etc... divided into Engineering, Pilots, Gunners ....


- --------------------------------------------------------------
emailto:Jens.Maskus@stud.uni-hannover.de
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 05:45:11 PST
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Tis the Season

Hi all.  In the spirit of the season, I present here a little ditty I 
threw together last night.  We are a diverse mix, from all over the 
globe, and while we might nuke each other over piracy, economics, 
religion, near-C rocks, and all our other flame-baits, we still, by and 
large seem to act like a family of sorts.  Its nice to be a part of it 
all.  So here I present <insert cheesy music> to honor all the various 
incarnations of our favorite game..............

The Twelve Jumps of Trav'ler

==================================================

On the First Jump of Trav'ler
Marc Mil-ler gave to meeeee

And a Hiver in a P-Eeeeee


==================================================


On the Second Jump of Trav'ler
Marc Mil-ler gave to meeeee

Two Droyn Sports

And a Hiver in a P-Eeeeee


==================================================


On the Third Jump of Trav'ler
Marc Mil-ler gave to meeeee

Three X-Boats

Two Droyn Sports

And a Hiver in a P-Eeeeee


==================================================


On the Fourth Jump of Trav'ler
Marc Mil-ler gave to meeeee

Four Tenders Skimming

Three X-Boats

Two Droyn Sports

And a Hiver in a P-Eeeeee


==================================================


On the Fifth Jump of Trav'ler
Marc Mil-ler gave to meeeee

Fiiiive Gooolden Coooooyns

Four Tenders Skimming

Three X-Boats

Two Droyn Sports

And a Hiver in a P-Eeeeee


==================================================


On the Sixth Jump of Trav'ler
Marc Mil-ler gave to meeeee

Six Pirates Looting

Fiiiive Gooolden Coooooyns

Four Tenders Skimming

Three X-Boats

Two Droyn Sports

And a Hiver in a P-Eeeeee


==================================================


On the Seventh Jump of Trav'ler
Marc Mil-ler gave to meeeee

Seven Stutter Wa-arps

Six Pirates Looting

Fiiiive Gooolden Coooooyns

Four Tenders Skimming

Three X-Boats

Two Droyn Sports

And a Hiver in a P-Eeeeee


==================================================


On the Eighth Jump of Trav'ler
Marc Mil-ler gave to meeeee

Eight Half Dice

Seven Stutter Wa-arps

Six Pirates Looting

Fiiiive Gooolden Coooooyns

Four Tenders Skimming

Three X-Boats

Two Droyn Sports

And a Hiver in a P-Eeeeee


==================================================


On the Ninth Jump of Trav'ler
Marc Mil-ler gave to meeeee

Nine Home Rules

Eight Half Dice

Seven Stutter Wa-arps

Six Pirates Looting

Fiiiive Gooolden Coooooyns

Four Tenders Skimming

Three X-Boats

Two Droyn Sports

And a Hiver in a P-Eeeeee


==================================================


On the Tenth Jump of Trav'ler
Marc Mil-ler gave to meeeee

Ten Cubic Yards

Nine Home Rules

Eight Half Dice

Seven Stutter Wa-arps

Six Pirates Looting

Fiiiive Gooolden Coooooyns

Four Tenders Skimming

Three X-Boats

Two Droyn Sports

And a Hiver in a P-Eeeeee


==================================================


On the Eleventh Jump of Trav'ler
Marc Mil-ler gave to meeeee

Eleven Fighters Dodging

Ten Cubic Yards

Nine Home Rules

Eight Half Dice

Seven Stutter Wa-arps

Six Pirates Looting

Fiiiive Gooolden Coooooyns

Four Tenders Skimming

Three X-Boats

Two Droyn Sports

And a Hiver in a P-Eeeeee


==================================================


On the Twelfth Jump of Trav'ler
Marc Mil-ler gave to meeeee

Twelve Starships Jumping

Eleven Fighters Dodging

Ten Cubic Yards

Nine Home Rules

Eight Half Dice

Seven Stutter Wa-arps

Six Pirates Looting

Fiiiive Gooolden Coooooyns

Four Tenders Skimming

Three X-Boats

Two Droyn Sports

And a Hiiiiveeer in a P-Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!

Happy Holidays all

8^)


Jim Clem, B.S.E.
Borg vs Tribbles
"Assimilation is Futile!!"

REALITY.SYS Corrupted:  Re-Boot Universe?  (Y/N/Q)
The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbecility. 
                                       Admiral Lord Fisher 
In God we trust, everyone else SQUAWK MODE IV!!!!!!!!!!!!


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:18:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Dimension Travel Books

In mail you write:

> Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>
>>Are you sure it was Robert Silverberg?  Larry Niven wrote a short called
>>"All the Myriad Ways" on this topic, and a collection of amusing shorts
>>called (I think) "Flight of the Unicorn" about a guy trying to time travel
>>but ending up slipping "sideways" as he travels back, so that he ends up
>>in all sorts of fantasy worlds and the like.  Very fun stuff.
>
> Definitely Silverberg. Certainly not Niven (this was before my Niven phase)
> _Flight of the Unicorn_ was the title of a novel by Anne McCaffery too IIRC.

"Get Off the Unicorn" (or Pegasus?). The "off" was *supposed* to be
"of", but some stupid undereducated proofreader was unaware that "get"
can mean "progeny". So he/she changed it, and McCaffery didn't find out
until it was too late to change.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:09:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Inertial comp. and Gravity

In mail you write:

> A couple quick questions for everyone...A TL 12 inertial
> compensator/artificial grav unit can compensate for 4 g of acceleration
> (5 while in a workstation)...could a crew do all their combat duties in
> 0g, and reroute the artificial grav unit to provide an extra g of
> compensation (making it 5/6 in ws)?  Or is that what's assumed by the
> extra g 'in workstation?'
>
> Secondly, What is the rating on g tanks?  Can a crew use several means
> at once?  (eg.  A crew in g-tanks with inertial compensation and wearing
> 'g-suits' from CSC)  Would this be common practice in canon/ytu?

I *think* that g-suits and g-tanks can't be used together. If they
*can* be, then I bet that the g-tank rating *assumes* that you are
wearing a g-suit inside it.

> (I ask because it seems that fighters can pull multiple Gs in turns, and
> we can compensate for most of it at primative TL 7-8...seems like
> starships could do a lot better...)

Actually, we *can't* compensate very well.

Also, the gees pulled in a fighter and the gees in a spaceship are
*not* going to be the same. You see, not only the *amount* of
acceleration matters, but the *direction* matters.

The worst possible direction for acceleration is "head down" (that is,
it feels like you are standing on your head. The force is from your
feet *towards* your head). This is bad because due to the way the
circulatory system works, you get the *full* effect of the acceleration
over the distance from feet to head. So at 10g, you have the equivalent
of 60 feet of "pressure head" applied to the capillaries in the brain.
They'll go "pop" long before that. 

Head to feet accel is easier to take because we are designed to handle
that posture for extended periods. For example, the leg veins have
valves to help keep blood from pooling there, and to allow normal
muscle contactions when walking to help pump blood back into the body.
Even so, there are limits. This is the direction that fighter aircraft
pilots are taking acceleration in. 8 or 9 g will quickly result in a
blackout. Only *seconds* at such accelerations are possible, even with
g-suits, before loss of conciousness.

Front to back is the *easiest* accel to take. Centrifuge tests of the
astronauts have had them spending *minutes* at high accel. Possibly
hours at "medium" accel (say 3-4 g). This "flat on your back" accel is
what you encounter during the launch of current spacecraft. And it's
what a fighter *spacecraft* will have to deal with, because turning
will have to be via changing the main thrust vector. You can't "bank"
in space.

So with 3 g compensation, a pilot on a fighter can probably handle an
*additional* 3g over that. And do so for many turns. That means 6g or
better thrust.

On ships, you have to restrict thrust to levels where the crew can
still move around, or else have everyone in acceleration couches or
g-tanks.  

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:01:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

In mail you write:

> No, I said I tried to post the accompanying QUESTIONS and PROBLEMS of the
> story and the accompanying picture, not the story and picture, themselves.
>
> I had some kind of Internet Regulatory Official contact me telling me my
> post had been deleted in so many newsgroups.  Admittedly, I had spammed it.
> But that's the thing.  SPAM gives the average Joe the opportunity to really
> get the word out, but the Feds have emasculated the internet...

It wasn't any sort of "Internet Regulatory Official" because there
*are* no such people. What it almost certainly was, was a message from
one of the many automatic SPAM killers on the net.

SPAM in newsgroups does *not* give the average joe *anything*. Spam is,
*by definition*, posting *inappropriate* content to multiple
newsgroups. Note that word. *Inappropriate*. 

Also, posting *seperate* but identical messages to multiple newsgroups,
*regardless* of content is *automatically* inappropriate. That's why
cross-posting exists. *One* message, adressed to multiple groups.

The feds haven't done *anything* to the Internet. Heck, you should read
up on the *lack* of success various goverments have had in forbidding
access to various info on the net. 

And SPAMming newsgroups is no more the proper way to get a message
across than is getting up in front of your church to speak about
something both non-related to religion and which the congregation isn't
interested in.

Newsgroups and mailing lists cover specific areas. If your message is
not about that area, then it doesn't belong. What you did was no
different than walking into someone's house uninvited and starting to
make a speech. 

I'm certain there are newgroups where your message *if posted properly*
was on topic. You should have posted it to one of those, with
cross-posting to the others.

But claiming that SPAM is *ever* justified, all you do is show that you
haven't the vaguest idea how the Internet works. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:11:20 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Canada and their Media

Ethan Henry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ObTrav2: Imagine if there was an Imperial equivalent to the CBC
(or BBC for you Brits, which is somewhat different, but mostly 
the same). A single media entity dedicted to celebrating the 
uniqueness & shared values of several trillion people who have
nothing in common and who, to a certain extent, hate each other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I seem to remember a department of the IISS Communications
Branch having a role like that - helping to foster understanding
between worlds of the Imperium through better communication,
cultural exchanges, etc. I hadn't thought of it in quite the terms
you mention above - people who have nothing in common and
might hate each other. Putting your spin on it would make for
some interesting plot hooks.

See, we can mine almost anything for a thread!!  <G>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:30:49 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Availability of Free Trader deckplans (was re: Grendalls Daughter)

Jesse DeGraf wrote (re: sources of Free Trader Deckplans):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Also from many CT & MT sources.

Jesse

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I've only seen the deckplans in two places myself - DGP's
_Starship Operator's Manual_ and GDW's _Snapshot_
boardgame. DGP's product was very nicely detailed,
including some interior views, but it added an Air/Raft
garage. The _Snapshot_ map was simplified and stylized
for use in a boarding action simulation game. 

The stats, of course, are available in every incarnation of
Traveller yet printed.

I like the idea that the Type A Free Trader from CT is a
"generic" class, and that there are dozens (if not hundreds)
of ship classes that meet the Type A guidelines. Same
(or similar) stats, a wide variety of creative deckplans.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:41:07 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Background Music

Phil Kitching said:

>I thought it was "O Fortuna" from "Carmina Burana" <spelling ?>
>
>essentially a bunch of German and Latin drinking songs from the middle
ages,
>collected together by Carl Orff


A collection of drinking songs and poems from the monks in this one
monastery. Orff however wrote the music for all of the pieces in the CB.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:50:41 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double-standard? 

"David Reed" <de.reed@xolutions.com> writes:
>obtrav: i'm coming to this thread late (having just rejoined the list),
>but
>i'm fixin' to embroil my players in a terrorist/guerilla war of a similar
>nature, and i'm curious how other groups of players have dealt with the
>moral dilemmas inherent in such a conflict.  who are your players more
>likely to identify with: the tyrants, the innocent victims, the
>resistance,
>or the biggest pile of credits?

Depends. When we were teenagers, only my younger brother 'cared' about
NPCs (so much so that he sacrificed his favourite character for some
chance-met children).

My last group often went on self-appointed missions to save lives. They
had an oddly consistent view of morality and 'rightness', but Lord it was
fun!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:10:33 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: GT: Missiles and optional rules

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:00:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net>
Subject: Re: GT: Missiles and optional rules
1. Do note the location of the missile launch phase in the Sequence of
Action. If on round "alpha" you detect an enemy and unload your missiles
they will be in your hex or adjacent in phase six of that round. The enemy
may then try to detect your missiles in phase one of "round beta". If both
sides have detected each other as in the "smuggler vs. SDB" situation he
will automatically do so. Having done so, a canny captain will immediately
burn Gs in the opposite direction to reduce the missile closing velocity
and flip up his active sensors to engage in missile interception.
**********
and if he is far enough away he could even generate a miss.

3. I note that some captains apparently don't believe in turning on active
sensors in existing situations
***************
can the active sensors be turened on even if there is no detection until
the PD phase? if so that would be very helpful.


4. When firing weapons in point defense, please note that each individual
weapon may roll to hit once; this is the normal state of affairs; firing
by battery is only for exceptional situations e.g., very large ships to
speed things up. Thus, an SDB with two triple laser turrets is attacked by
a fat tragger smuggler with two triple missile turrets. It salvos six
missiles at the SDB. These appear at the launch phase and are detected.
Next round the SDB in the detection phase flicks on its active sensors.
Assuming closing velocities such that the missiles will intercept, this is
what may happen:

Gunner switches to third missile; penalty is now -4. Gunner needs 8 or
less to hit. Rolls an 11, a 12, and a 15. All three attacks miss.
Gunner cannot attack third missile again (better pray the other gunner is
on the ball), so switches to fourth missile;
penalty is now -6; 6 or less to hit. Rolls 7, 8, 5.  Missile 3 is dead.
********************8
this was what I wass doing different, I was allowing the missiles to be
retargeted by the same tureet at an additional -2.

this does bring up a question, how many chances does a ship get against a
missile? as many as it has turrets? (I belive this is what your example
shows).

so in other words we can just total the number of missiles incoming, and
roll to hit them for each turret simply subtracting a missle from the
number for each hit witht he exeption that a turret can only get as many
tries as there are missile.

as an example, a merc cruiser is engaged by 20 missiles (6 PD turrets
available)
turret 1: 4 hits
turret 2: 3 hits
turret 3: 4 hits
turret 4: 3 hits:
turret 5: 3 hits (3 missiles left)
turret 6: can only fire three times it engages the first missile at normal
PD, the second at -2 and the third at -4.
say it hits thee first 2, but misses the third. it *CANNOT* re-engage the
last missile at -6.

Is this correct?
5. Yes, you can shoot *and* use point defense in the same turn.
**************
Good, I will be sure to make that clear in examples.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:22:35 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: GT: combat example

hal@buffnet.net on 12/22/98 03:55:48 PM

To:   Aerron Winsor/IAS
cc:   GURPSnet-l@io.com
Subject:  Re: GT: combat example




Hello Aerron,
  If I  understand your "example" correctly...
>**************
>but in this case the missile is already past the target. the initial
>position of the ship is five hexes behind the missile....
>
>perhaps a liniar example would better explain my point.  the ship is at
>point 0 the missile is at point five.  in the movement phase the ship
moves
>to point 10 and the missile moves to point 105.  the ship is now within
the
>triangle of the missile and accoriding to the rule you proposed, can be
>hit. however there is no way the missile could have hit the ship, as it
was
>always ahead by at least 5 hexes..
  This specific case proves that the movement is not simultaneous.  Because
all ships *must* move first before missiles, you grant the missiles an
extra-ordinary abilility.  Perhaps my memory is bad, or my visualization
process is bad, but doesn't the same situation that you just provided prove
that the "Hit exactly" method is just as wrong as the triangle method?
<grin>.
*************
no, in this case the missile could not hit exactly, it would have to pull
95 Gs to generate a hit with the hit exactly rule.

  As for that specific case above,  you make a strong arguement for "GM
decision."
  Perhaps, the amending "fix-up" rule for the rule of triangles is:
 The previous position counter must have started inside the triangle, or...
the current position counter must be inside the "ending" area of  a
triangle (this is the area of missile operator's optional area due to the
Missile's acceleration).  In essense, if you start in the triangle, the
missile can always adjust to what you do, and nail you.  If you end in it,
you have to be within the "bottom" portion of the triangle.
*****************
that doesn't work either, for example if it starts in the bottm, and moves
out, that should also be a miss.

the only way that I can see to get a realistic veiw of it is to use the hit
exactly rule microphases or 'impulses' like SFB or car wars.  that is just
too much complexity, I think that the hit exactly rule is close enough for
an aproximation when there are other aproximations in the system:

for example, you should realy only move half of your vector change during a
turn, but it isnt as playable that way.

raming damage should be dam*(velocity^2) but that also takes longer....hey,
this satisfies my need fot blowthourh rules.....the rules as written
already inlude blowthrough.


missile hits a CA with 10 hex velocity, it does dam*10, dam*90 blows
through and looks spectacular!!

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1305
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 23 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1306



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: GT: Missiles and optional rules
Re: Basic Game Books
Re: GT: combat example
Re: Air leak sound (was: Background Music)
Re: Background Music
Re: GT: combat example
Re: RPGs in boot camp
Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard
Thx for the Far Trader scans
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1303
Re: RPGs in boot camp
Re: RPGs in boot camp
Re: Snipers (was Re: Overthrowing Government?)
Re: Background Music
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: HG Configuration question
Re: HG Configuration question
Re: HG Configuration question
Re: Crew Size on Naval Warships
Re: HG Configuration question
Re: High Guard its Product 
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Re: Heresy? 
Re: Humour? II 
Re: High Guard its Product 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:50:26 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: GT: Missiles and optional rules

"David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net> on 12/23/98 10:32:40 AM

To:   Aerron Winsor/IAS
cc:   gurpsnet-l@io.com, traveller@mpgn.com
Subject:  Re: GT: Missiles and optional rules






Incidentally, if I end up revising the system for other uses, Iwould be
strongly tempted to suggest an alternative that works only when targeting
identical missile salvos:
Drop the "-2 for each additional target" and instead assume you hit a
number of missiles equal to the amount you succeed by (minimum 1).
Thus, a laser turret with a 12 or less chance rolls for three lasers and
scores 11, 13, 9, it would would kill 1 + 0 + 3 = 4 missiles.
This was not in actual rules , as it runs into problems (size modifiers,
etc.) when applied broadly and against all possible ramming targets.
It is, however, much faster and easier to explain.
************
I like this a lot, it is much easier, mind if I use it for Starships?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:01:34 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Basic Game Books

>Could you please tell me where I could get basic Traveller game books?
>
>I.E., Classic Traveller, MegaTraveller, or anything else if the first two
>just aren't available anymore.

Keep your eyes open.  The best place for price, but the worst for
convenience is the rec.games.rpg.marketplace newsgroup.

Specific websites;

A "Centralized Trade" station at;
http://surf.to/traveller-trader
Crazy Egors at;
http://www.crazyegors.com/home.html
The Dragon's Trove at;
http://www.dragontrove.com
which has The Traveller Book (Books 1-5(?) plus some adventure material in
hardcover for $30.
Titan Games at;
http://www.titan-games.com/
Which has the three MT basic books for about $30, and the boxed set of CT
basic books (1-3) for $13-$15


Michael Derry was having a Traveller Sale last July, and his website is
still up at http://www.jugenstil.com/derry/travsale.shtml
but the last time it was updated was July.


Flash!

I just checked ebay on a whim (http://www.ebay.com) and there are Azhanti
High Lightning Deck plans (only, looks like supplement 5, the rules
booklet, chits, and box are gone) for $10.  The whole boxed game has been
sold for over $50 in good condition, and many of us are really only
intereste din the deckplans.

Ebay has other Traveller stuff too, but not basic books right now - check
it occasionally though, I once saw the Traveller Adventure (CT) there for
under $12 (at the time).  Often people sell there and no one knows what
they are selling.

I checked a few other auction sites, but no hits on the keyword "Traveller"
at all.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:02:10 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: GT: combat example

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:42:19 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: GT: combat example
Why does everyone want things either complicated or wrong?
******* the full version *********
The solution to resolving collisions between two objects with
100 hex moves is to subdivide the moves into smaller time periods
as the objects get close.
The easiest way that I can see is as follows.
Multiply the ship's speed, by the missile's speed, the ship's
acceleration this turn and the missile's acceleration
to get the "number of impulses"
******************
this is both more complicated, and doesn't solve the problem for higher
velocities.  in order to slove the problem we would need impulses for the
velocity rather than the acelleration. and that would be a nightmare.




Then just step through the turn. Once you get the hang of things, you can
easily skip through the boring bits (afterall, this isn't SFB where
you have to make a fire and other activities descision for each ship in
the fleet at each step. :-)
***************************
but you would have to, incldung a fire and PD phase in each impulse. way
too complex to resolve large (or small even)fleet actions.




******** the simpler version *********
You don't need to do the full multiplication thing, dividing each speed and
acceleration by 10 and then accumulating the fractions so that an extra hex
is granted when they add up to 1 so that the total distance moved is
correct
would also work.
Then when things get close, divide by 10 again.
ie
             Ship         Missile
         Speed  Accel   Speed  Accel
           47      4      106    13
Impulse  Hexes moved
    1       4      0       10     1
    2       5      0       11     1
    3       5      1       10     1
    4       4      0       11     2
    5       5      1       11     1
    6       5      0       10     1
    7       4      0       11     2
    8       5      1       10     1
    9       5      0       11     1
   10       5      1       11     2
as a help, a spreadsheet formula like
     INT(impulse*speed/max_impulse)-SUM(hexes moved so far)
was used to generate this table.
********************
*Pages* of charts would be needed for this, just not publishable.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:11:48 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: Air leak sound (was: Background Music)

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 15:06:06 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Air leak sound (was: Background Music)
On 12/20/98 at 10:56 AM,  Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> said:

>One interesting possibility, especially for leaks aboard ship, is
>that a clear musical tone might result -- anything from a
>high-pitched reedy whistle for a small leak in a small compartment,
>to a thundering bass organ note for a large gash in a huge
>compartment.  This would result from turbulence around the hole
>setting up standing waves in the chamber --
>basically the same way a pipe organ or flute works.  The pitch would
>rise and the volume decrease as the compartment evacuated.  Spacers
>would dread hearing such a rushing, rising tone.  It's similar enough
>to what a teakettle does that spacers might jump if someone was
>boiling water in a kettle without their being aware of it.  And
>'teakettling' would be likely spacer slang for the effect:  "I could
>hear the forward engineering bay teakettling, so I went through the
>access tunnel instead..."
Ooo! Craig, remember this for the game!  Ok, so would a rising whistle by a
spacer be an insult?
****************
actualy the picht would lower and the volume decrease. the reason that the
pitch from a teakettle is rising is because the internal pressure is
increasing.
- - -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- - -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:16:02 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Background Music

At 09:41 23/12/1998 -0500, Chris Seamans wrote:
>
>A collection of drinking songs and poems from the monks in this one
>monastery. Orff however wrote the music for all of the pieces in the CB.
>
Thankyou for the correction. Even as I sent the mail, I knew that I
should have waited until I could get home and check.

Phil Kitching
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:20:31 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: GT: combat example

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:33:23 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: GT: combat example

IMHO the only way of resolving this is to break the movement into as many
steps as the faster of the two involved objects and move each 1 hex at a
time. Divide the faster object's velocity by the slower object's to find
how many hexes the fast object moves before the slower one does. Divide the
faster object's velocity by each maximun acceleration to find how often
each object can change its vector by one hex. You hit the ship if your
counters occupy the same hex at the same time, just like in real life.
*******************
way to complex and still only handles 2D movement, the in the same hex rule
is a nod to modeling 3D vector solutions on a 2D map.



This is only necessary  if you care if two objects collide, and there is
some dispute if they do or not. With detonation-laser missiles, this is an
extremely rare situation.
**********
no det lasers *yet* :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:33:02 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >An advantage of CT over D&D and TNE:
> >
> >It is easier to fold up 2D6 than 1D20
> >


Instant D6 = 1 penny, 1 nickle, 1 dime. Flip all. With 3 coins you have
3! combinations, which is 6 in this case. Since CT ONLY uses D6, that's
all you need.


- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:34:51 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > On 12/21/98 at 09:17 AM,  Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> said:
> >
> > >ObTrav: As Dave said, moral dilemmas are a great way to spice up a
> > >Traveller campaign...unless you have the odd fortune of having a set
> > >of players with no moral scruples whatsoever.
> >
> > >"We torture and maim the guy at the bar until he tells us where the
> > >missing starship is." (soon followed by) "Why is everybody shooting
> > >at us?"
> >
> > Ha! Ha!
> >
> > In my PBEM, the PC's have finally made it to the Mark system to claim the ship they inherited. Unfortunately, the ship seems to be missing.  I'm sure if they could get hold of *me* they would torture me until I told they where it is hid. ;->
> 
> What makes you think that, Eris?  <grinning, oiling the whip>
> 

Hey! You only have a few percent stake, says I, busy peeling slivers of
bamboo...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:59:21 -0800
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: Thx for the Far Trader scans

Thank you all for your support in sending me scans of the Marava and Garu
Far Traders.  Between your help and finally finding G:T (which has a pretty
good shot) while on vacation (holiday for Dom & co :), I think I've got
enough to go on.  If I sent you a seperate message, please go ahead with
those arrangements.

I'll keep you all posted and let you know how it's going.  This vacation has
turned into a working vacation, but a fun one.  Happy Holidays to all!!!

Best Regards & MANY Thanks,
Jesse DeGraff
www.vision-forge-graphics.com/trav.htm

P.S.  When I get anything worthwhile done, I'll post it at my site.  Until
the next X-Boat.......

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:39:32 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1303

>>>>
I'm still arguing with myself about the configuration of the 2500 ton
boxer
I'm working on.  What HG configuration would you assign the hull?  The
profiles are still on my site at:
http://www.perkworks.com/traveller/downloads/BoxerP.gif 

Paul
>>>>
I'd say it is either a cylinder (several cylinders tied together) or
close structure configuration.  It depends whether you want the price
break that close structure gives you or you need some amount of
streamlining.
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:53:34 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

But with 3 coins you produce a bell curve with an average total roll of 3 or
4.  If one side of a coin was "1" and another was "2", then your lowest roll
would be 3 and your highest 6?  That would make average rolls of 4 or 5.

Making I didn't pick up on something?

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:22:13 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

No, each unique combination is assigned a number, as in the table below:

value	|1	2	3	4	5	6
- --------------------------------------------------
penny	|t	h	h	t	t	h
nickle	|t	t	h	t	h	h
dime	|t	t	t	h	h	h

It's a bit hard to 'read' the die without use of the table at first, but
after a while you pick it up. It's actually easier to toss the coins in
the air 'I Ching' style, rather than flip them individually. Emulating
some other die are easy. A D4 is 2 coins, a D8 is 2 coins  + one coin
(low/high). D12 are 4 coins (the D6 scheme above + 1 low/high) but the
next stop is D24 :-( You can make a D20 from that by ignoring the high
and low two values on either end, and 're-rolling', and a D10 the same
way with a 'D12', just drop the high and low as a re-roll. This gives a
flat probablility curve.

Clif wrote:
> 
> But with 3 coins you produce a bell curve with an average total roll of 3 or
> 4.  If one side of a coin was "1" and another was "2", then your lowest roll
> would be 3 and your highest 6?  That would make average rolls of 4 or 5.
> 
> Making I didn't pick up on something?
> 
> --Clif

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:30:13
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Snipers (was Re: Overthrowing Government?)

At 10:32 PM 12/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>>>USMC trained Sniper.  Which of course, makes me one of "them".

>>One soldier, one bullet, one target, new shape for the future.
>
>        "Long distance is almost as good as being there...."

"Reach out, reach out and kill someone..."
- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|  111     Embrace Fascism.     111  |
|  |||  The uniforms look cool  |||  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:30:20
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Background Music

At 11:07 AM 12/21/98 -0400, you wrote:

>>I'm now picturing the 5th Doctor dealing with the Vargr..

>        I am now picturing Vargr dealing with K9 and his disintegrator
>snout.... =)

The Daleks vs. Zhodani Warbots.  (at least the Warbots can climb stairs!)
- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:30:08
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

At 01:09 PM 12/22/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Agent Provocateur.  If there is a 'they', 'they' love anyone who spreads
the idea that 'they' are untouchable.

That's me!  I'm even a card-carrying member of the International Jewish
Conspiracy (subverting the world since AD122)

ObTrav: It's all a Templar plot anyway.

Agent 1183
dberry@hooked.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:40:47 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: HG Configuration question

In a message dated 12/22/98 5:32:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, pc@perkworks.com
writes:

<< I'm still arguing with myself about the configuration of the 2500 ton boxer
 I'm working on.  What HG configuration would you assign the hull?  The
 profiles are still on my site at:
 http://www.perkworks.com/traveller/downloads/BoxerP.gif
 
 Paul >>

Nice job! I'd say close structure (4), or a needle/wedge (1) if you want her
to be fully atmospheric...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:43:57 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: HG Configuration question

In a message dated 12/22/98 7:54:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
travelleri@home.com writes:

<< My first reaction to the configuration is 7 - dispersed. >>

nope; the ship description says "armored"....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:52:08 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: HG Configuration question

Yep, you're right, but by the same token it can't be close structure
either. So I'd have to go more for wedge, under the circumstances.

Mike Peters

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 12/22/98 7:54:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> travelleri@home.com writes:
> 
> << My first reaction to the configuration is 7 - dispersed. >>
> 
> nope; the ship description says "armored"....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:23:24 -0800
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Crew Size on Naval Warships

I don't think this is classified...

USS Nimitz core crew @2500.  With 9 Wings embarked 5000.

Gunners (my dept) @30 (missiles and guns)

If you really wantme to, I could pull out my cruise book and get specifics.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas
IMTU: tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
People are more violently opposed to fur than to leather because
  it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jens Maskus <Jens.Maskus@stud.uni-hannover.de>
To: TML <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 3:18 AM
Subject: Crew Size on Naval Warships


>Does anybody know the crew size of Warships like the USS Enterprise, Iowa,
Nimitz,
>Nuclear Subs etc... divided into Engineering, Pilots, Gunners ....
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>emailto:Jens.Maskus@stud.uni-hannover.de
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:23:43 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: HG Configuration question

In a message dated 12/23/98 11:20:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,
travelleri@home.com writes:

<< Yep, you're right, but by the same token it can't be close structure
 either. So I'd have to go more for wedge, under the circumstances.
 
 Mike Peters >>

In 2nd ed. you can armor a close structure hull. The only advantages of a
wedge are: 1) fully streamlined vs partial 2) close structure is much cheaper
(.6 hull cost mod vs 1.2) and 3) wedge is more resistant to Spinal mount
(especially meson) hits... I never understood the rationale for this (ie a
larger hit number to roll above to penetrate). I guess they assume a narrower
bow on profile for the beam to hit...?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:21:49 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

>  "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:
> 
> Dom> <look offstage> ERIS! You've got company.....
> >
> > Dom (of the revisionist T4.1 sect whole believe that T4.1's draft was the
> > but the latest incarnation of Classic Traveller, and High Guard is
> *still*
> > its product ;-) )
> 
> <Calling out from offstage> You said that when I showed up...
> 
> 
> See - only the truly faithful can stay on the path to enlightenment through
> the the Guidance of Book 5, Adventure 5 and Supplement 9. ;-)

Bloody well right.  Ain't no Indestructable Beachballs From Hell in CT.  And a damned good thing, too.  They seriously whack out not only game balance, but *also* the look and feel of the Game we love so much.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:06:26 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

> I don't know who wrote about the Apache, but I suggest he do a little more
> research.
> 
> 1. All militias are not gun-toting racist rednecks, in actuality many of them
> are ex-military and even "minority" types who feel that the Federal agencies
> have violated the constitutional rights of americans.

In some parts of the U.S., militias are *not* considered to be anarchist 
yahoos.  They're basically the state's National Guard component.

> 2. Have you ever stopped to think, that they might be right?

Depends on how you define that.
 
> 3. The number of militias in this country have doubled since Waco and the OKC
> bombing.

I find it extremely interesting that the Feds tried their damnest to attach a 
'militia' flavour to both of these tragedies.  And the thought of the Feds 
coming in with guns to pressure a variant religious group frankly scares the 
HELL out of me.
 
> 4. An apache like any machine can be taken or destroyed in any number of
> imaginative ways.

Absolutely.  Just ask any Afgani or Viet Cong.
 
> Before one goes believing everything they hear on the "news" they should
> consider that the so called "press" is the darling of big government.

While there is 'freedom of the press' in the U.S., a *LOT* of news stories get 
buried.  For instance, an incident of a US Army major who was shot in the back 
at Potsdam while attempting to take pictures back in the 80's.  It got one 
day's mentioning in Europe, and *NO* coverage here in the U.S.
 
> Now back to TRAVELLER

ObTrav:  Consider the ramifications if the Imperium decides that a very 
popular religious movement has suddenly become a 'threat' for whatever reason, 
whether it be tax resistance to the Imperium or extreme pacifism in a critical 
area.  And your players are tasked to 'fix' this problem...

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:19:30 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Heresy? 

> >From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> ...
> >"There is no Traveller but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is its Product."
> 
> 
>   Upon closer examination you may be in danger of serious doctrinal error,
> as even followers of later editions can be redeemed merely by accepting the
> superiority of High Guard (2nd ed; first ed. is _right out_ - burning at the
> stake is involved here) or a similar authorized product following the plan 
> of presenting sophisticated, yet playable detail.

I *ONLY* use 2nd Ed.  Therefore, I salute you.  With one finger.  <grin>

>   Consult your conscience closely before considering formats over 6"x9".
> 
> The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"

<bows toward Normal, Illinois>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:21:37 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Humour? II 

> >From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
> >Subject: Re: Canada and their Media
> ...
> >I believe that even in Canada, there is a tradition of Freedom of the Press.
>                 ^^^^
> 
>   Ah, you've realized that we're just a bunch of wannabe Stalinists?  :>
> 
>   FWIW, given the corporate structures of modern North America "freedom
> of the press" is pretty damned near a joke, and the CBC is probably the
> only thing preventing us from being worse off than the US.

Naw, that's what the Internet is for, giving *ALL* of us freedom of the press, 
subject to local laws.  <grin, ducking>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:24:27 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> > From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> > Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 
> > Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 3:12 PM
> > 
> > > Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal 
> > > smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that makes me
> 
> > > a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?
> > Yup.
> 
> Ah, but is it not written in the sands of time, that all gentiles are
> Brothers of the Book...  And as such while they my game in the way they
> choose, are they not gaming just the same?

They're the ones wanting jihad, not me!!

> > Now go your way and sin no more.
> 
> How can one sin when one is doing the work of The Grandfather?  If one can
> sin doing the work of The Grandfather, does this not mean all life then is
> sin?

Impregnable Beachballs From Hell are against the work of The Grandfather and 
thus must be destroyed.
 
> > <grin>
> 
> <Wide Evil Grin>
> 
> Now, my Comparative Religions class has finally paid off...

Heh.  You were in the Student Union playing pinochle that day, right?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1306
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 23 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1307



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

GURPS rules
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Re: HG Configuration question
Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard 
Re: RPGs in boot camp
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Re: RPGs in boot camp
Re: GURPS rules
Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)
Beachballs
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Re: High Guard its Product
Re: High Guard its Product
Re: HG Configuration question
Re: RPGs in boot camp
Re: High Guard its Product 
Re: High Guard its Product 
Re: GURPS rules
Re: High Guard its Product
Re: High Guard its Product
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Re: High Guard its Product
Re: High Guard its Product
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Moving Against Religions
Re: Thx for the Far Trader scans
A Church Caves In to Govt. 
Alternative Dicing [was...RPG's in Boot Camp]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:42:23 -0500
From: rodmanb@mindspring.com
Subject: GURPS rules

<De-lurk mode off>
I've played CT and MT off an on for 13 years now.  Being the old curmudgeon
that I am, I'm a little apprehensive about the new GURPS version.  I
should've prefaced that statement with the fact that I haven't read the new
GURPS version.   Naturally, I take it it follows the GURPS system rules?  I
was wondering what you thought about it.

- -Rod

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:32:35 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

> In mail you write:
> 
> > No, I said I tried to post the accompanying QUESTIONS and PROBLEMS of the
> > story and the accompanying picture, not the story and picture, themselves.
> >
> > I had some kind of Internet Regulatory Official contact me telling me my
> > post had been deleted in so many newsgroups.  Admittedly, I had spammed it.
> > But that's the thing.  SPAM gives the average Joe the opportunity to really
> > get the word out, but the Feds have emasculated the internet...
> 
> It wasn't any sort of "Internet Regulatory Official" because there
> *are* no such people. What it almost certainly was, was a message from
> one of the many automatic SPAM killers on the net.

I find it extremely interesting that some people who do not understand spam
filters blame their bounced messages to the Evil Internet Regulators, thus
'proving' their belief in a great One World Government Conspiracy.

Hell, *EVERYBODY* knows you *DON'T* post binaries or pics to non-binaries
newsgroups.  Except, of course, for the terminally paranoid afraid that the
Evil Internet Regulators are going to stomp their 'Truth'.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:40:56 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: HG Configuration question

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:

<<snip>>
 
> 3) wedge is more resistant to Spinal mount
> (especially meson) hits... I never understood the rationale for this (ie a
> larger hit number to roll above to penetrate). I guess they assume a narrower
> bow on profile for the beam to hit...?

The wedge configuration doesn't make it harder for a PAW to hit, only a
meson gun.  The difference in effect is based on the fact that a meson
gun beam must decay _within_ the hull of the target, while a PAW only
needs to hit the target.  The timing required for a meson gun is thrown
off more easily by the traditional wedge shape, as displayed by the Type
S scout/courier.  (Even though FF&S2 doesn't address this issue, I still
use the wedge for most major warships, both for the meson gun issue, and
for the kewl esthetics of the wedge.  Besides, many of the FF&S2 ships
I've done are merely adaptations of my HG designs.) 

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:41:35 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard 

> > > In my PBEM, the PC's have finally made it to the Mark system to claim the ship they inherited. Unfortunately, the ship seems to be missing.  I'm sure if they could get hold of *me* they would torture me until I told they where it is hid. ;->
> > 
> > What makes you think that, Eris?  <grinning, oiling the whip>
> > 
> 
> Hey! You only have a few percent stake, says I, busy peeling slivers of
> bamboo...

Maybe so, but you think I'm gonna let you guys have *ALL* the fun???

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:07:53 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

>>>>
It's a bit hard to 'read' the die without use of the table at first,
but
after a while you pick it up. It's actually easier to toss the coins
in
the air 'I Ching' style, rather than flip them individually. Emulating
some other die are easy. 
<snip>
>>>>

Binary!  You would think Bruce has more learning in computers than
keyboard and mouse manipulation!  Way to go Bruce!
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:32:07 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

From:           	"Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Date sent:      	Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:32:35 -0500

>> In mail you write:

>I find it extremely interesting that some people who do not understand spam 
>filters blame their bounced messages to the Evil Internet Regulators, thus 
>'proving' their belief in a great One World Government Conspiracy.

You mean some people actually want to stop the One World Government? 
Wonders will never cease. Guess I'd better bring this up at the next meeting, 
we really do need to explain ourselves better. It so easy for people to 
misunderstand. Maybe we should go back to "floridating" water again.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:47:41 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

Joseph Kimball wrote:
> 
> >>>>
> It's a bit hard to 'read' the die without use of the table at first,
> but
> after a while you pick it up. It's actually easier to toss the coins
> in
> the air 'I Ching' style, rather than flip them individually. Emulating
> some other die are easy.
> <snip>
> >>>>
> Binary!  You would think Bruce has more learning in computers than
> keyboard and mouse manipulation!  Way to go Bruce!
> - Joseph

Actually, that scheme was thought up long before I started messing with
computers, large or small...I was in college, and studying microbiology
and chemistry at the time, so this was thought up from first principles:

"What do we have in our pockets? How can we generate random outcomes
from this stuff?"

Hadn't thought of that backpacking trip where we forgot the dice for a
long time.

And doh!...until you mentioned it, I didn't _recognize_ it as binary 8-)
However I have learned to reinvent the wheel quite efficiently....

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:00:05 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS rules

rodmanb@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> <De-lurk mode off>
> I've played CT and MT off an on for 13 years now.  Being the old curmudgeon
> that I am, I'm a little apprehensive about the new GURPS version.  I
> should've prefaced that statement with the fact that I haven't read the new
> GURPS version.   Naturally, I take it it follows the GURPS system rules?  I
> was wondering what you thought about it.

As with mnost GURPS sourceboks, the Traveller books are actually pretty
rules-light, in favor of background and other playing material.

Gurps Traveller is excellent if you _don't_ have MT Imperial
Encyclopedia, or the CT Library books, but if you have a lot of CT and
MT sources there's not much of anything new in there.

Behind the Claw, OTOH, is a WONDERFUL sourcebook, rich detail throughout
the Spinward Marches, which I'd recommend to anyone.

Aliens 1 is very good (and exhaustive) in it's coverage of the Zhodani
and Vargr, as well as some less well detailed minor alien races. I think
it's quite worthwhile.

Some of the books coming up look to be as useful as BTC, so all in all,
I think it's quite a worthwhile investment. You don't _have_ to use or
even like the Gurps rules to make use of the material.

The only downside is that all measurements throughout are NOT metric, as
GURPS uses a baroque and primitive measurement system: things called
yards, pounds, miles...:-P

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:04:28 +0000
From: David Scott <d.scott@ic.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)

>At one FLGS in my area there is a bundle of a used copy of Star
>Frontiers by TSR along with 10 modules (a rules expansion and 9 others,
>I can't see what the other 9 are).  This bundle is being offered for
>US$25.
>I would like opinions of whether there is enough good material in this
>package to bother getting it and mining it for Traveller ideas.  This
>would put off getting other materials that are specifically Traveller,
>so I would like some feedback before making a decision.
>- Joseph

I regreted buying it when it came out. A waste of money. Useless for 
traveller.

David

mailto:d.scott@snail.dircon.co.uk
http://www.snail.dircon.co.uk/
- --
List owner: CoreShamanism@onelist.com
Subscribe: CoreShamanism@snail.dircon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:35:44 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Beachballs

>Impregnable Beachballs From Hell are against the work of The Grandfather and
>thus must be destroyed.
>

Its the impregnable beach babes from Hell that have me down in the dumps.
:)

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:38:15 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

ONCE AGAIN, _AGAIN_!  THERE WERE NO BINARIES INVOLVED, YOU NITWIT!

- --Clif

>I find it extremely interesting that some people who do not understand spam
filters blame their bounced messages to the Evil Internet Regulators, thus
'proving' their belief in a great One World Government Conspiracy.
>
>Hell, *EVERYBODY* knows you *DON'T* post binaries or pics to non-binaries
newsgroups.  Except, of course, for the terminally paranoid afraid that the
Evil Internet Regulators are going to stomp their 'Truth'.
>
>Keven

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:58:22 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

> ONCE AGAIN, _AGAIN_!  THERE WERE NO BINARIES INVOLVED, YOU NITWIT!

A picture *IS* a binary.  Wake up and smell the napalm already.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:15:50 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

In a message dated 12/23/98 1:38:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< Ain't no Indestructable Beachballs From Hell in CT. >>

except maybe a Tigress....:-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:18:05 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

In a message dated 12/23/98 2:30:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< 
 Heh.  You were in the Student Union playing pinochle that day, right?
  >>

now THAT brings back memories....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:20:47 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: HG Configuration question

In a message dated 12/23/98 2:46:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
wombat@premier.net writes:

<< The wedge configuration doesn't make it harder for a PAW to hit, only a
 meson gun.  >>

Sigh...; I really should have my books in front of me when I pontificate rules
interpretations....:-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:29:57 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

I don't know about boot camp, but my friend used to play the Metagaming
version of Ogre and GEV (still my favorite non Traveller games) on the top of
the turret of his M60A3 at both Fort Knox and in Germany when he was in the
field. He used to stand in the TC's cupola and his opponent (usually another
LT. from another platoon stood in the loaders hatch. It worked well unless the
wind blew the game off the tank (modeling a thermo nuke?), or they had to move
out fast (a sweep of the hand into the loaders hatch and pick up the pieces
after manuevers if you were lucky). He would buy a half dozen copies at a
time, but at $2.95 a pop; the game was practically disposable... His Company
Co and the platoon sergeants were annoyed that two LT's were not minding their
platoons, but he never got burned....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:29:04 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> In a message dated 12/23/98 1:38:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jamstar@glasscity.net writes:
> 
> << Ain't no Indestructable Beachballs From Hell in CT. >>
> 
> except maybe a Tigress....:-)

Too big to be a Beachball.  It's one of the *original* Happy Fun Balls, still 
legal in 27 states *AND* Ohio.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:30:47 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> In a message dated 12/23/98 2:30:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jamstar@glasscity.net writes:
> 
> << 
>  Heh.  You were in the Student Union playing pinochle that day, right?
>   >>
> 
> now THAT brings back memories....

Me, too.  I lost a *LOTTA* money playin pinochle in the Student Union.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:33:20 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: GURPS rules

In a message dated 12/23/98 4:05:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:

<< Gurps Traveller is excellent if you _don't_ have MT Imperial
 Encyclopedia, or the CT Library books, but if you have a lot of CT and
 MT sources there's not much of anything new in there. >>

I disagree; I got it for two reasons: 1) to support Steve to keep the line in
print, and 2) the deck plans of the free trader Beowulf. As far as I know;
only DGP's Starship Operator's Manual had those, and it's a VERY rare book...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:38:32 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

In a message dated 12/23/98 5:34:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< Too big to be a Beachball.  It's one of the *original* Happy Fun Balls, still 
 legal in 27 states *AND* Ohio. >>

please enlighten this poor ignorant soul, and tell me what that is?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 21:53:47 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

At 08:15 PM 23/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 12/23/98 1:38:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>jamstar@glasscity.net writes:
>
><< Ain't no Indestructable Beachballs From Hell in CT. >>
>
>except maybe a Tigress....:-)
>

        The Tigress is far from indestructible...  I've GM'd one fleet
action where *3* were incinerated.  It was, well, icky....
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:32:39 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

Keven wrote:
> ObTrav:  Consider the ramifications if the Imperium decides that a very 
> popular religious movement has suddenly become a 'threat' for whatever reason, 
> whether it be tax resistance to the Imperium or extreme pacifism in a critical 
> area.  And your players are tasked to 'fix' this problem...

IMTU, the Church of Yaskoydray had to "correct it's errors" on Psionics
during/after the Psionics Suppressions.

Oh, and in the RW the US government pretty much fought a war against the
Church of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) last century, IIRC.
 
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:24:01 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

In a message dated 12/23/98 5:35:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< Me, too.  I lost a *LOTTA* money playin pinochle in the Student Union. >>

You lost money; I lost time; I FAILED my classes. In the long run; I would
have rather lost the money...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:25:34 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

In a message dated 12/23/98 5:51:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca writes:

<<  The Tigress is far from indestructible...  I've GM'd one fleet
 action where *3* were incinerated.  It was, well, icky.... >>

Do you have a post narrative...?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:27:53 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

In a message dated 12/23/98 6:19:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:

<< 
 Oh, and in the RW the US government pretty much fought a war against the
 Church of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) last century, IIRC.
   >>

Oh yeah; I live in Nevada and it's still a sore point with the Saints...(and I
tend to sympathize)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:43:53 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

ONCE AGAIN, _AGAIN_, *_AGAIN_*!  THERE WERE NO BINARIES INVOLVED!

I *KNOW* WHAT A BINARY IS.  NOT EVERYONE IS AS STUPID AS YOU ASSUME.

Let me NOW draw you a picture...  I said I posted QUESTIONS and PROBLEMS
about the article/story and its accompanying picture, NOT that I posted the
article/story and its picture.

While I may not be the most informed person in the world, my reading
comprehension isn't lacking.  Wish I could say that lack thereof was not a
source of many flames posted on the Net...

- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?


>> ONCE AGAIN, _AGAIN_!  THERE WERE NO BINARIES INVOLVED, YOU NITWIT!
>
>A picture *IS* a binary.  Wake up and smell the napalm already.
>
>Keven
>
>tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ---
>                                                     Science-Fiction
Adventure
>                                                     In Reavers' Deep
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:52:50 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Moving Against Religions

Really? I am not familiar with this, unless you are talking about the
*almost* skirmish that took place in the lL/MO area.

Are you referring to the years concerning polygamy in Utah, when the state
was only a territory?  If so, I wasn't aware that any shots had been fired.

Please provide more details.

- --Clif

>Oh, and in the RW the US government pretty much fought a war against the
>Church of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) last century, IIRC.
>
>Alan Bradley
>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:24:16 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: Thx for the Far Trader scans

>Thank you all for your support in sending me scans of the Marava and Garu
>Far Traders.  Between your help and finally finding G:T (which has a pretty
>good shot) while on vacation (holiday for Dom & co :), I think I've got
>enough to go on.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the illustration in G:T on the
page with the Empress Marava-class far trader actually of a Garu-class far
trader from MegaTraveller Journal 4? The stats for the two are comparable,
but MT4 specifically says the Garu bridge is located in a starboard "snout"
with a characteristic strut-braced greenhouse-style canopy. The Empress
Marava picture I have shows streamlined wedge-shaped "snouts" and a rear
spoiler.
- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:22:35 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: A Church Caves In to Govt. 

Hmm, it is so "sore" that they sustained the "Prophet's" "Manifesto" which
basically asked whether the Mormon members should continue to be persecuted
or give up polygamy, thus gaining statehood for Utah?  It is so "sore" that
they STILL believe in upholding the laws of the land, even if they go
against previously revealed "truth."  The only people who are sore about it
are those still practicing polygamy because they were excommunicated for
being obedient to what had been revealed as truth from "God" by the prophets
who came before.

Let's see, I have it here, somewhere...

Yeah... anyone who wants to read how an infallible religious leader caves in
to government authority should go to their local library and read the
"Official Declaration 1" at the end of the "Doctrine and Covenants" of The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints .

From what I understand, the vote sustaining the elimination of polygamy in
Mormon culture was only unanimous because those who would have voted against
it were afraid of being excommunicated.

Go to a sustaining of Church leaders, sometime.  Whereas in other churches
you KNOW that people have big problems with the minister being "a man of
God", in Mormonism EVERYONE (that I have ever seen, and I've seen quite a
bit back in my Mormon days) votes to sustain and support the leadership.  It
is culturally unacceptable to fail to sustain the leadership just as it is
"bad" to fail to partake of the bread and water, even though you might
personally feel "unworthy" to partake.

These sort of experiences prompted my comment that religion is just another
sort of conspiracy.  The sad thing is that they are not isolated to
Mormonism.  No longer am I into organized religion...

- --Clif
- -----Original Message-----
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?


>In a message dated 12/23/98 6:19:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:
>
><<
> Oh, and in the RW the US government pretty much fought a war against the
> Church of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) last century, IIRC.
>   >>
>
>Oh yeah; I live in Nevada and it's still a sore point with the
Saints...(and I
>tend to sympathize)
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 22:34:10 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Alternative Dicing [was...RPG's in Boot Camp]

On 12/22/98 at 10:22 AM,  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com> said:

>>One of the guys made a "dice" out of folder paper...

>An advantage of CT over D&D and TNE: 

>It is easier to fold up 2D6 than 1D20

<grin>

>So, was he good at origami, or did you use a D6 system for D&D?

Hasn't anyone ever cut a sheet of paper into squares, numbered them,
put them into a hat and "drawn their dice" rather than rolled them?
It takes 20 squares for 1d20, and 36 for 2d6...<grin>

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1307
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 24 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1308



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Rule of Man
Rabid Impregnible Beach Ball from Hell
Re: High Guard its Product
Re: High Guard its Product
Re: Background Music
Carbon dioxide taint
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Alternative Dicing [was...RPG's in Boot Camp]
Re: RPGs in boot camp
Re: High Guard its Product
M0 Subsidized Liner plans
M0 Subliner plans now available
Re: GT: combat example
Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)
The dam the pots thingy
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: The dam the pots thingy 
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Re: The dam the pots thingy
Re: Background Music
re : GURPS rules
Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)
Re: High Guard its Product 
Re: Heresy? 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:11:28 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Rule of Man

Dear Folks -

Steven wrote:
>>ObTrav: BTW, do you have any conclusive proof that the Rule of Man was TL15?
>It takes more than "gentle" roasting (or was it being "baked"?) to fully
understand the complexities of the true TL of the RoM.

Fodder for the TML FAQ? That is, if things cool down enough for the
debate-and-results to be written up.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:13:18
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Rabid Impregnible Beach Ball from Hell

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 
>
>Bloody well right.  Ain't no Indestructable Beachballs From Hell in CT.
And a damned good thing, too.  They seriously whack out not only game
balance, but *also* the look and feel of the Game we love so much.

Keven,

This isnt actually true.

You can build quite a nice  using High Guard.

AF 10 or so is more-or-less indestructable except using nukes ... you are
rolling at *thinks* +16 isnt it on the damage table with Fac 9 or less.

Now, the 'canon' designers didnt build them, but that is not to say there
arent any.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 23:23:11 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

On 12/22/98 at 05:12 PM,  "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> said:

>> Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal 
>> smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that makes me 
>> a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?

>Yup.

>Now go your way and sin no more.

There are many paths to Traveller. Welcome them all.

Eris,
    <-; guess ;->

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 23:26:37 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

On 12/22/98 at 11:47 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:

>"jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal
>>smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that makes me
>>a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?

><look offstage> ERIS! You've got company.....

>Dom (of the revisionist T4.1 sect whole believe that T4.1's draft was
>the but the latest incarnation of Classic Traveller, and High Guard
>is *still* its product ;-) )

Hee! Hee! I keep telling you folks there are a lot of us out here. ;->

Eris,
    the Heretic <Let's play FUDGE Traveller!>
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:52:56 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Background Music

Dear Folks -

Doug's reply to this thread was:
>>>I'm now picturing the 5th Doctor dealing with the Vargr..
>>I am now picturing Vargr dealing with K9 and his disintegrator snout....
=)
>The Daleks vs. Zhodani Warbots.  (at least the Warbots can climb stairs!)

[Aside: I think the first poster has it wrong - he means the 4th Doctor,
Tom Baker, rather than the 5th Doctor, Peter Davison. But this is just
nit-picking, as you all knew what he meant...!]

The BBC gave the Daleks some new tech when the 7th Doctor (Sylvester McCoy)
met them - *now* they have CG!!

BTW, K9 Trav description & stats are on my web site (sorry, I haven't yet
converted the Robots design spreadsheet from the Amiga yet. Maybe these
hols??!!).
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 21:33:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Carbon dioxide taint

I did some searching and found an MSDS that listed exposure data for
CO2 (see bottom of post). From this it is quite evident that you can
have sufficient oxygen (20% at 1 atm) and *still* run into CO2
toxicity.

Note that 4% is hazardous. And that *isn't* that unlikely on a planet
that has life but hasn't yet laid down massive coal beds or the like.
Planets with "young" biospheres are likely to have *very* high levels
of CO2!

This info may also be useful for those situations where life support
has broken down, or, due to a misjump, it's being run *far* past normal
limits.

EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE: 
INHALATION:
Nervous system control of respiration is dependent on the CO2 level
breathed in air. By reducing the oxygen level in air, CO2 can cause
suffocation. Symptoms include: headache, dizziness, shortness of
breath, muscular weakness, drowsiness and ringing in the ears. High
concentrations produce a faint acid taste and can cause paralysis of
the breathing control centers of the nervous system:
	  2% by volume in the atmosphere will cause a 50% increase in
	     the breathing rate;
	  3% a 100% rate increase;
	 >4% produces labored breathing and is dangerous for even a few
	     minutes of exposure;
	>12% causes rapid unconsciousness
	a few hours exposure at 25% results in death.

EMERGENCY FIRST AID:
Prompt medical attention is mandatory. rescue personnel should be
equipped with self-contained breathing apparatus.

INHALATION:
Conscious persons should be assisted to an uncontaminated area and
inhale fresh air. Quick removal from the contaminated area is most
important. Unconscious persons should be moved to an uncontaminated
area, given mouth-to-mouth recussitation and supplemental oxygen.
Assure that vomited material does not obstruct the airway by use of
positional drainage. Medical assistance should be sought immediately.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:02:49 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

>Who would you rather fight?  A Hell's Angel or a Counter-terrorist Navy
>Seal?  I'd pick the Hell's Angel, anyday.

 A clever person would get them to fight each other while he made off
with the loot.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:20:34 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Alternative Dicing [was...RPG's in Boot Camp]

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 12/22/98 at 10:22 AM,  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com> said:
>
> >>One of the guys made a "dice" out of folder paper...
>
> Hasn't anyone ever cut a sheet of paper into squares, numbered them,
> put them into a hat and "drawn their dice" rather than rolled them?
> It takes 20 squares for 1d20, and 36 for 2d6...<grin>

Although I've been adept at making those paper cubes since I was 5,
I've never used them, or the paper chit-in-hat method.

What I do when desperate is take a deck of playing cards, set aside
the K,Q,J,10,9,8,7s, and then shuffle the rest and draw as many dice
as I need.  If I have more decks, so much the better, I throw them in
as well to cut down on the unconscious cheating I seem to do
with small groups of cards.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:18:38 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> quotes quotes:

>GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> >An advantage of CT over D&D and TNE:
>> >
>> >It is easier to fold up 2D6 than 1D20
>> >

 At least keep some of what I wrote, eh? The above is itself a quote from
Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com> the day before. Granted, I
didn't attribute it at the time...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:33:00 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: Re: High Guard its Product
> Dom> <look offstage> ERIS! You've got company.....
> >
> > Dom (of the revisionist T4.1 sect whole believe that T4.1's draft was the
> > but the latest incarnation of Classic Traveller, and High Guard is *still*
> > its product ;-) )
> 
> <Calling out from offstage> You said that when I showed up...
> See - only the truly faithful can stay on the path to enlightenment through
> the the Guidance of Book 5, Adventure 5 and Supplement 9. ;-)

Ah, but I have all of those...  And, I do use them...  *weg*

> Dom

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist & Old Gaming Fart
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:27:13 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: M0 Subsidized Liner plans

A rendition of the Milieu Zero SubLiner that makes some sense will be
available on my website shortly. Those wishing to preview it as one big GIF
may do so at:

http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html

 and check the "new" listing.

 This is just the plans with little annotation and no real page wrapped around
them. The full description will follow. Note that this page does not have any
links to or from anywhere except the main page named above. "Perpetually under
construction" is not just an empty phrase around here...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:52:24 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: M0 Subliner plans now available

>A rendition of the Milieu Zero SubLiner that makes some sense will be
>available on my website shortly. Those wishing to preview it as one big GIF
>may do so at:
>
>http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html
>
> and check the "new" listing.
>

 This is now up and accessable. Note that for whatever reason, I arranged the
decks opposite of my usual style, so the lowest deck is on the left.

Full connection to the rest of the page (primarily a link on the Shipyard
page) will follow shortly.

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:57:41 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: GT: combat example

At 11:20 23/12/1998 -0500, Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com wrote:
>Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:33:23 -0800
>From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
>Subject: Re: GT: combat example
>
>IMHO the only way of resolving this is to break the movement into as many
>steps as the faster of the two involved objects and move each 1 hex at a
>time. Divide the faster object's velocity by the slower object's to find
>how many hexes the fast object moves before the slower one does. Divide the
>faster object's velocity by each maximun acceleration to find how often
>each object can change its vector by one hex. You hit the ship if your
>counters occupy the same hex at the same time, just like in real life.
>*******************
>way to complex and still only handles 2D movement, the in the same hex rule
>is a nod to modeling 3D vector solutions on a 2D map.
>
Take it from me - just try it ! it is simple.

If you want to use 3D, then use 3D, (with models on stands and their
vectors represented by sticks and a simple "I arrive at the crossover point
after 20% of my move, you need 35%, so we miss" calculation.)

or give every counter a number to represent its "height" above the board

but if you are willing to use a 2D representation, then why not try to
get it right.

Simple example of the same hex problem:

PCs ship comes zooming in towards the enemy ship at 200 hexes per turn
at 180 hexes they launch and the enemy accelerates towards them and launches
missiles in the opposite direction.
Next turn the PCs are hit by the enemy's missiles after they have overshot
him but the enemy ship is totally immune to their missiles.
Result?
One dead GM or the rules get ignored - your choice.

Phil Kitching

(I don't know why I worry, I'm never using GURPS except as traveller
related reading, this sort of stuff just convinces me more).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:38:37 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)

>I would like opinions of whether there is enough good material in
this
>package to bother getting it and mining it for Traveller ideas.  This
>would put off getting other materials that are specifically
Traveller,
>so I would like some feedback before making a decision.

It's definitely worth it, if only for the star-town map and counters
you get in the basic game, the number of times that map got used for a
generic city in my games, the players were begining to wonder if all
cities in the Imperiumwere prefabricated on Sylea and shippd out !

Rules and background are crap.  The Volturnus adventure series
however, is easy to translate to Traveller, especialy if you mix in
"Ordeal by Eshaar" and "Across the Bright Face"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:38:47 -0700
From: Samir <samir@chisp.net>
Subject: The dam the pots thingy

    (Potsdam) if we are are talking about the same thing, that Major was
trying to get photos of the new (back then) Russian Tank armor when he was
shot. A lot was going on at the time,  Not that it matters to much. 

   As for the players being asked to fix a reliegeous problem, there is a
planet that fits that description in the BTC, in fact it REALLY fits: a
reliegeous zealot who uses High Tech and tells his followers that it is his
faith that preforms these miracles (keeping his palace floating in the air,
when he is actually using ConTra-gravity. That would be a major can of
worms if the players topple his alter.) Actually I don't see the imperiam
asking the players, but a Mega Corp on the other hand (or the Imperium hand
behind a Mega corp)... lets say there is something on the planet that they
want access too...
And lets say the players succeed, NOW the imperium gets involved on be half
of the persecuted (sp) religeous faction.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:44:54 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

Hello cretinous fnord inhabiitants of planet America.

 I'd just like to say that I was intending to overthrow the government
with a near-C rock launched by a pirate out near the L5 colony that
was founded by a sentient computer Virus that insisted on replacing
all graphics with pornographics.

Unfortunately a small team of Hell's Angels and Navy fnord Seals
rounded out by a couple of USMC snipers managed to hi-jack the pirate
via a low-G assault launched from the High Frontier Orbital Mind
Control Laser platforms and cause it to misjump.

So all you fools get to argue for another year while I try to raise
enough cash to hire another mercenary battalion.  Then you'll be sorry
you didn't listen to the fnord conspiracy theorists

Evil Uncle Ed's Evil Uncle Ernie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 05:14:16 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: The dam the pots thingy 

>     (Potsdam) if we are are talking about the same thing, that Major was
> trying to get photos of the new (back then) Russian Tank armor when he was
> shot. A lot was going on at the time,  Not that it matters to much. 

Yup, that was the incident.  He was ordered to take the pictures, got shot for 
trying it, and the story got buried the next day.

>    As for the players being asked to fix a reliegeous problem, there is a
> planet that fits that description in the BTC, in fact it REALLY fits: a
> reliegeous zealot who uses High Tech and tells his followers that it is his
> faith that preforms these miracles (keeping his palace floating in the air,
> when he is actually using ConTra-gravity. That would be a major can of
> worms if the players topple his alter.) Actually I don't see the imperiam
> asking the players, but a Mega Corp on the other hand (or the Imperium hand
> behind a Mega corp)... lets say there is something on the planet that they
> want access too...
> And lets say the players succeed, NOW the imperium gets involved on be half
> of the persecuted (sp) religeous faction.
> 

Could be...

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:04:25
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

At 05:06 PM 12/23/98 -0500, you wrote:

>> 4. An apache like any machine can be taken or destroyed in any number of
>> imaginative ways.
>
>Absolutely.  Just ask any Afgani or Viet Cong.

minor point, but neither the VC or the mujahdeen faced AH-64s.  The best
the Viet Cong had to deal was the AH-1 Cobra, and that scared them to
death.  The Cong tended to vacate an area that was been worked over by
helicopters.

The Afghani Mujahdeen were being slaughtered by Soviet Hinds until they
recieved the best hand-held SAM in the world, the Stinger.  Using CIA
provided weaponry, they were able to force the war to their level.  A joke
among Soviet chopper pilots ran "what is the best way to avoid an American
SAM?" "Transfer to the infantry."
- --

+--------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry   dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "Fixed fortifications are monuments  |
| to the  stupidity of man."           |
|               -Gen. George S. Patton |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:12:14
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: The dam the pots thingy

At 02:38 AM 12/24/98 -0700, you wrote:

>   As for the players being asked to fix a reliegeous problem, there is a
>planet that fits that description in the BTC, in fact it REALLY fits: a
>reliegeous zealot who uses High Tech and tells his followers that it is his
>faith that preforms these miracles (keeping his palace floating in the air,
>when he is actually using ConTra-gravity. That would be a major can of
>worms if the players topple his alter.) Actually I don't see the imperiam
>asking the players, but a Mega Corp on the other hand (or the Imperium hand
>behind a Mega corp)... lets say there is something on the planet that they
>want access too...

Double Adventure 6,  Divine Intervention.

Doug
dberry@hooked.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:10:39
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Background Music

At 10:52 AM 12/24/98 +1000, you wrote:
>Dear Folks -
>
>Doug's reply to this thread was:
>>>>I'm now picturing the 5th Doctor dealing with the Vargr..
>>>I am now picturing Vargr dealing with K9 and his disintegrator snout....
>=)
>>The Daleks vs. Zhodani Warbots.  (at least the Warbots can climb stairs!)
>
>[Aside: I think the first poster has it wrong - he means the 4th Doctor,
>Tom Baker, rather than the 5th Doctor, Peter Davison. But this is just
>nit-picking, as you all knew what he meant...!]

Nope.  As a former President-for-Life of the Legion of Rassilon, I know my
Doctors.  The idea of the very flappable 5th doctor up to his neck in a
Vargr pack just amuses me.  The 4th Doctor would join right in with the
howling, and offer them all jelly-babies.

>The BBC gave the Daleks some new tech when the 7th Doctor (Sylvester McCoy)
>met them - *now* they have CG!!

Wasn't that great!  We saw that episode at a LoR meeting, and when the
Dalek started up the stairs, the cheering was so loud we had to pause the
tape until it died down.
- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:06:12
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: re : GURPS rules

>From: rodmanb@mindspring.com
>Subject: GURPS rules
>
><De-lurk mode off>
>I've played CT and MT off an on for 13 years now.  Being the old curmudgeon
>that I am, I'm a little apprehensive about the new GURPS version.  I
>should've prefaced that statement with the fact that I haven't read the new
>GURPS version.   Naturally, I take it it follows the GURPS system rules?  I
>was wondering what you thought about it.
>

You can easily use the Gurps:Trav stuff with any rules you want.

The only conversions are to TLs via a table, and removing the 20% penalty
for streamlining (or replacing it with a 20% increase in armour costs and
weights for streamlined ships).

There is lots of good stuff coming out of Gurps:Traveller, and most of it
could be converted straight over to CT or MT.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:17:30 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)

> >At one FLGS in my area there is a bundle of a used copy of Star
> >Frontiers by TSR along with 10 modules (a rules expansion and 9 others,
> >I can't see what the other 9 are).  This bundle is being offered for
> >US$25.
> >I would like opinions of whether there is enough good material in this
> >package to bother getting it and mining it for Traveller ideas.  This
> >would put off getting other materials that are specifically Traveller,
> >so I would like some feedback before making a decision.
> >- Joseph
> I regreted buying it when it came out. A waste of money. Useless for 
> traveller.

I have to disagree...  The system is not very good, but I do like the alien
races & some of the ideas in the game...  Like 2001 & 2010 sourcebooks... 
Added them into MTU...  So you do have the reason the 3I does not like AI
computers...  HAL...

> David

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist & Old Gaming Fart
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:20:31 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 
> > << 
> >  Heh.  You were in the Student Union playing pinochle that day, right?
> >   >>
> > now THAT brings back memories....
> Me, too.  I lost a *LOTTA* money playin pinochle in the Student Union.

For me, it was poker...  Pinochle players at ASU where, well what can I
say...  Not really men...  The real men played poker & drank beer...  Until
they were drunk & lot all their money to me...  Because I did not drink
when playing poker...  *weg*

I know I am pure evil...  I GM Traveller...

> Keven

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:33:59 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Heresy? 

> From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> Subject: Re: Heresy? 
> > >"There is no Traveller but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is its Product."
> >   Upon closer examination you may be in danger of serious doctrinal error,
> > as even followers of later editions can be redeemed merely by accepting the
> > superiority of High Guard (2nd ed; first ed. is _right out_ - burning at the
> > stake is involved here) or a similar authorized product following the plan 
> > of presenting sophisticated, yet playable detail.
> I *ONLY* use 2nd Ed.  Therefore, I salute you.  With one finger.  <grin>

Hell, the only good version of HG is 2nd Ed...

> >   Consult your conscience closely before considering formats over 6"x9".
> > The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"
> <bows toward Normal, Illinois>

<bows toward Normal, then Decatur, IL...>

We must not forget Judges Guild & Paranioa(sp) Press...

Remember, JG & PP helped to make CT fun...

> Keven

Btw, where is the 4IWG?

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1308
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 24 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1309



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: High Guard its Product 
Merry Christmas
Re: High Guard its Product
Re: High Guard its Product 
Re: High Guard its Product 
Re: Claymore or less
Re: GURPS rules
Merry Christmas to all!!
Re: Thx for the Far Trader scans
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Re: Indestructable Beachballs From Hell in CT
Humour?, yet again...
Re: (Mormons) last century
Moving Against Religions
Re: Moving Against Religions
Mormons
Re: A Church Caves in to Govt.
Re: High Guard its Product
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: GURPS rules
more humor
Evil Uncle Ernie

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:28:40 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

> From: Clif <brclif@digital.net>
> Subject: Moving Against Religions
> Really? I am not familiar with this, unless you are talking about the
> *almost* skirmish that took place in the lL/MO area.

You know, I had family involved in that...

> Are you referring to the years concerning polygamy in Utah, when the state
> was only a territory?  If so, I wasn't aware that any shots had been fired.

They had been...  Read the biography of Joeseph Smith or the bio of his
Bodyguard...  US Cavalry units attacked the Mormons several times...  It
was the only Pogrom in the History of the US...  It was only stopped by the
Civil War...

> Please provide more details.

If I can find some...

> --Clif
> 
> >Oh, and in the RW the US government pretty much fought a war against the
> >Church of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) last century, IIRC.

It was not a war, but a pogrom...  That is why we jews like the mormons... 
And the mormons us...  In WWII the mormons in germany hid many jews from
the nazis...

> >Alan Bradley
> >alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:34:19 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 
> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 3:24 PM
> > > > Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal 
> > > > smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that
makes me
> > 
> > > > a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?
> > > Yup.
> > Ah, but is it not written in the sands of time, that all gentiles are
> > Brothers of the Book...  And as such while they my game in the way they
> > choose, are they not gaming just the same?
> They're the ones wanting jihad, not me!!

That is what everyone says..  I say if you want a Jyhad, then let us attack
not ones who are almost like us, but those who really need it...

The people who play, the only game I think should be burned...  Magic:  The
Gathering...

> > > Now go your way and sin no more.
> > How can one sin when one is doing the work of The Grandfather?  If one can
> > sin doing the work of The Grandfather, does this not mean all life then is
> > sin?
> Impregnable Beachballs From Hell are against the work of The Grandfather and 
> thus must be destroyed.

Ah, but Impregnable Beachballs From Hell are not alive in anyknown sense of
the word...  You must remember life has one basic precept, can it be a
Traveller?  If it can then let it live...  If it cannot, destroy it...

> > > <grin>
> > <Wide Evil Grin>
> > Now, my Comparative Religions class has finally paid off...
> Heh.  You were in the Student Union playing pinochle that day, right?

Nope, I was in the Student Union running a Traveller Game?   Why do you
ask?

Btw, before you ask, I went to ISU in Normal, IL...

> Keven

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:27:46 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Merry Christmas

Well its now December 25th here, so felicitations of the season to all. Now to 
ulitise ancient pocket universe technology (the portal in my wardrobe) and bring 
my children their annual visit from the Sylean Association of Nocturnal 
Transportation Agents.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:36:21 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

> From: Eris Reddoch <eris@gulf.net>
> Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

> >> Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal 
> >> smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that makes me 
> >> a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?
> 
> >Yup.
> 
> >Now go your way and sin no more.
> 
> There are many paths to Traveller. Welcome them all.

This is true...

Preach it Brother Eris...

> Eris,
>     <-; guess ;->

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:52:59 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

At 04:34 24/12/1998 -0700, Legate Legion wrote:
>> From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>> Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 
>> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 3:24 PM
>> > > > Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal 
>> > > > smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that
>makes me
>> > 
>> > > > a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?
>> > > Yup.
>> > Ah, but is it not written in the sands of time, that all gentiles are
>> > Brothers of the Book...  And as such while they my game in the way they
>> > choose, are they not gaming just the same?
>> They're the ones wanting jihad, not me!!
>
>That is what everyone says..  I say if you want a Jyhad, then let us attack
>not ones who are almost like us, but those who really need it...
>
>The people who play, the only game I think should be burned...  Magic:  The
>Gathering...

No, you don't understand...

You have to burn those that agree with you 99% - they'll appreciate it more.

:-)

Phil Kitching
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 06:07:56 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 
> 
> >> > Ah, but is it not written in the sands of time, that all gentiles
are
> >> > Brothers of the Book...  And as such while they my game in the way
they
> >> > choose, are they not gaming just the same?
> >> They're the ones wanting jihad, not me!!
> >
> >That is what everyone says..  I say if you want a Jyhad, then let us
attack
> >not ones who are almost like us, but those who really need it...
> >
> >The people who play, the only game I think should be burned...  Magic: 
The
> >Gathering...
> 
> No, you don't understand...

OK...

> You have to burn those that agree with you 99% - they'll appreciate it
more.

So let me get this straight, if I am to burn people that agree with me 99%
of the time...  And you are a member of the TML...  And the TMLers agree
with each other 99% of the time...  Ah, I see...

<LL grabs Phil & ties him to a stake & starts to pour gas all over him... 
Stacking some wood under Phil's feel, LL douses them with gas...  LL pulls
out a book of matches & lights one up...  Tossing it on the the wood, it
lights right up...  Phil starts to burn at the stake...>

> :-)

*weg*

> Phil Kitching

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:45:52 +0000
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Claymore or less

In message <3.0.32.19981222120655.009191f0@ee.tut.fi>, Antti Lahtinen
<lahtinen@ee.tut.fi> writes
>According to the test conducted in Finland, "active armor" is 
>       good enough to defeat most current anti-tank missiles, but 
>       there is still ways to defeat the system. In addition to missile 
>       defense, "active armor" warheads can be used as giant shotguns
>       against any infantry troopers who get too close to the vehicle.
>
Just remember to disengage the system before leaving the vehicle.
- -- 
Martin Hardgrave

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:42:36 -0500
From: Christopher Pratt <valen@gatecom.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS rules

I really like the GURPS rules actually, (once I got somebody
to explain the skill system to me, for some reason I
couldn't figure it out for the life of me) I have never
played CT or MT, but I have played T4, alternity, and I feel
that GURPS is a superior system with a ton of flexibility.  

later
chris
valen@gatecom.com

rodmanb@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> <De-lurk mode off>
> I've played CT and MT off an on for 13 years now.  Being the old curmudgeon
> that I am, I'm a little apprehensive about the new GURPS version.  I
> should've prefaced that statement with the fact that I haven't read the new
> GURPS version.   Naturally, I take it it follows the GURPS system rules?  I
> was wondering what you thought about it.
> 
> -Rod

- -- 
later
christopher pratt
valen@gatecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:19:55
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Merry Christmas to all!!

Go to:

http://www.noradsanta.org/english/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:38:25 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Thx for the Far Trader scans

In a message dated 12/23/98 8:24:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, rdhough@home.com
writes:

<< Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the illustration in G:T on the
 page with the Empress Marava-class far trader actually of a Garu-class far
 trader from MegaTraveller Journal 4? The stats for the two are comparable,
 but MT4 specifically says the Garu bridge is located in a starboard "snout"
 with a characteristic strut-braced greenhouse-style canopy. The Empress
 Marava picture I have shows streamlined wedge-shaped "snouts" and a rear
 spoiler. >>

Seeker Games Empress Marava deckplans has external drawings showing the
greenhouse and no spoiler....

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:21:42 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 
...
>While there is 'freedom of the press' in the U.S., a *LOT* of news stories get 
>buried.  For instance, an incident of a US Army major who was shot in the back 
>at Potsdam while attempting to take pictures back in the 80's.  It got one 
>day's mentioning in Europe, and *NO* coverage here in the U.S.

  I recall that incident - it got front page (although small article, due
to paucity of info?) coverage here in the Great White North.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:21:57 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Indestructable Beachballs From Hell in CT

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 
...
>> See - only the truly faithful can stay on the path to enlightenment through
>> the the Guidance of Book 5, Adventure 5 and Supplement 9. ;-)
>
>Bloody well right.  Ain't no Indestructable Beachballs From Hell in CT.
And a damned good thing, too.  They seriously whack out not only game
balance, but *also* the look and feel of the Game we love so much.

  Be nice, or you'll do more than merely hurt the feelings of a Tigress
(factor-15 armour; a factor-T PAW is just an enthusiastic back rub to
them, although they start getting testy after a bit).

  Oh, now it's gone off to nuke a PE by way of sulking...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:22:06 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Humour?, yet again...

>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 
...
>You mean some people actually want to stop the One World Government? 
>Wonders will never cease. Guess I'd better bring this up at the next meeting, 
>we really do need to explain ourselves better. It so easy for people to 
>misunderstand. Maybe we should go back to "floridating" water again.
                                        
  My god, you put _alligators_ in the water? Does the SPCA know about this?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:33:31 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: (Mormons) last century

>From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
>Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 
...
>Oh, and in the RW the US government pretty much fought a war against the
>Church of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) last century, IIRC.

  I heard of that once, called (in that instance) the "winter war" or some
such name, but haven't found other references in common material since; I
suppose I should go into the stacks sometime but I had assumed that it was
just a skirmish or two that didn't make the encyclopedia entries.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:39:26 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Moving Against Religions

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:52:50 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Moving Against Religions
Really? I am not familiar with this, unless you are talking about the
*almost* skirmish that took place in the lL/MO area.
*********************
He is probably talking about the 'winter war' where some irregulars held
off a battain/regiment for about 8 months (no casualties to either side.)

when the army got to Salt Lake City, they were told if they entered the
city, they city would be burned to the ground.  as a comprimise, Camp
Williams was built.

not much of a war, more of a passive resitance campaign,

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:49:43 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

"Clif" wrote:

Subject: Moving Against Religions

>Really? I am not familiar with this, unless you are talking
>about the *almost* skirmish that took place in the lL/MO area.

>Are you referring to the years concerning polygamy in Utah, when
>the state was only a territory?  If so, I wasn't aware that any
>shots had been fired.

>Please provide more details.

Was he referring to the "Utah War" of 1857 ?  Total combat
casualties: two horses. (Bullwhackers intimidated by a few shots
in the air and livestock killed or driven off from burned supply
trains don't count.)

   OB Traveller:  A Sector duke goes down in history for sending
the Imperial Navy and Marines to supress minor rebellions on
minor worlds and later withdraws them from Industrial HiPop
worlds that have announced their intention to secede from the
Imperium.
   Short on plot hooks? Just mine your favorite pre-industrial
era in history.  Use thinly disguised or slightly altered
versions of unfamiliar events.  Take different viewpoints and you
can use the same event as a seed for three or four different
plots.

  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:49:47 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Mormons

Alan Bradley wrote:

>Oh, and in the RW the US government pretty much fought a war
>against the Church of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) last century,
>IIRC.

That's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.  Evicted
from Missouri in 1838 by state governmental order. Evicted by mob
violence from Illinois in 1845.  Sent a 400 man Battalion to
serve in the Mexican war, while en route to Utah in 1846-47.
Detachment of US Army sent to supress a non-existent rebellion in
1857.  Forced by increasingly strict laws and penalties beginning
about 1862 to abandon religiously sanctioned polygyny in 1890. 
Utah inhabitants applied for statehood in 1849, not granted until
1896.

   How about this idea for a Traveller campaign?
   A strict and generally unpopular religious sect nevertheless
attracts numerous converts to sparsely inhabited worlds.  They
are remarkably successful at building thriving communities, but
arouse jealously and hatred in their neigbors. They are
repeatedly (outnumbered and outgunned) driven off the world they
have chosen to settle, as planetary governments stand by or
actually assist. Their efforts at self defense are intepreted as
evidence of agressive intent.
   They finally choose a previously uninhabited rockball to
settle, at the same time facilitating a natural trade route
through that world. The sect leaders claim allegiance to the
Imperium, but also announce that they will never be driven again. 
Because of their repeated forced evacuations, they have a TL just
sufficient for survival.
    Reports reach the Sector duke that they are practicing
slavery, smuggling nuclear weapons, and that civil war among them
is threatening their class C starport.  He calls on the Imperial
Marines to preserve order.  Rumors reach the sect that the
Imperium is coming to exterminate them.  The PCs are approached
almost simultaneously by representatives of a Megacorporation
which wants to control the trade route and agents of the
threatened sect for assistance in the coming conflict.
  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:49:37 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: A Church Caves in to Govt.

"Clif" wrote:

>Hmm, it is so "sore" that they sustained the "Prophet's"
>"Manifesto" which basically asked whether the Mormon members
> should continue to be persecuted or give up polygamy, thus
> gaining statehood for Utah?  It is so "sore" that they STILL
> believe in upholding the laws of the land, even if they go
> against previously revealed "truth."  The only people who are
> sore about it are those still practicing polygamy because they
> were excommunicated for being obedient to what had been
> revealed as truth from "God" by the prophets who came before.

[Remainder of religious diatribe snipped]

   Isn't this WAY off topic? *I* personally disagree and object, but I
don't know that most people on the list know or care what you are talking
about.  Religious rants are no more germane to Traveller than political
ones.

   But this inspires several thoughts.

   Take your (least?) favorite religious group threatened with 
arrest of its leaders, disenfranchisement of its people, and
confiscation or closure of its property and places of worship.
   A) It can flee to the frontier. Examples: Pilgrims and any
number of early immigrants to the US, early Mormons. This assumes
there is a frontier to flee to; otherwise you get B or C.  
   [The Pilgrims were headed for Virginia and ended up in New
England...a sub-optimal place for colonization, by all reports
I've heard. How many worlds in the Imperium boast a similar
origin?]

   B) It stubbornly resists and is destroyed as an organization.
The devoted minority goes underground with permanent resentment
toward their oppressors but little else.  Examples: Judaism comes
to mind. A political variant; the US Confederacy.
   [Actually, that makes a nice source of conflicts.  Any
forcible repression of a people might leave resentments that can
smolder for centuries.  Might that partially account for the
Rebellion and collapse of the Imperium?]

   C) It reaches some sort of compromise with the Government
which permits it to survive. The majority accepts the
accomodation as the will of God (or whatever), in some form.  A
minority does not, and denounces the majority as corrupt for
compromising, while the majority disavows the schismatic
minority.  Examples: Mormons post-1890. The Russian Orthodox
Church survived Lenin and Stalin in similar fashion, but
conflicts within it don't get much press where I live.
   [A religion is militant to begin with, and the "civil war"
your PCs got snagged into involvement with is a holy war between
two religious factions...senseless to anyone else but still
bloody.]

   US vs. the Mormons: A beautiful example of how majority
opinion plus creative legal interpretation can demolish paper
obstacles to oppression.
   But the Imperium never had paper guarantees of rights or
liberties to begin with.  It was founded on the idea that its
ruling nobles would be honorable, fair, responsible, etc. 
Clearly the reality fell well short of the ideal, but if there
were no ideal to begin with; if most of the nobles were selfish
and opressive most of the time, the Imperium would certainly
never have lasted as long as it did.
   So, what kept the nobles *noble*?
  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 01:37:18 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 12/22/98 at 11:47 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:
>
> >"jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>Hmmmmm, lets see, I'm using FFS, TNE, T4, 2300AD, with a liberal
> >>smattering of unofficial material from all over.  I guess that makes me
> >>a Heretical Gentile, Eh Keven?
>
> ><look offstage> ERIS! You've got company.....

Well tell him to get in line.

> >Dom (of the revisionist T4.1 sect whole believe that T4.1's draft was
> >the but the latest incarnation of Classic Traveller, and High Guard
> >is *still* its product ;-) )
>
> Hee! Hee! I keep telling you folks there are a lot of us out here. ;->

Yes, I the 5th wheel of heresy, still reside here. And heck so does Loren.

Evyn...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 01:39:27 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:

> Oh yeah; I live in Nevada

Yea Where?

With my luck down in Los Wages...

Evyn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 01:51:45 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS rules

rodmanb@mindspring.com wrote:

> <De-lurk mode off>
> I've played CT and MT off an on for 13 years now.  Being the old curmudgeon
> that I am, I'm a little apprehensive about the new GURPS version.  I
> should've prefaced that statement with the fact that I haven't read the new
> GURPS version.   Naturally, I take it it follows the GURPS system rules?  I
> was wondering what you thought about it.

Depends, do like Gurps? It is great version that gets rid of the rebellion and
such, which IMHO is great.

It is well done and a good primer for a CT based campaign.

Evyn...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:55:13 -0500
From: Christopher Pratt <valen@gatecom.com>
Subject: more humor

just a little ditty about my group's first traveller session

(to the tune of gilligan's island)

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale, 
a tale of a fateful trip 
that started from the highport 
aboard this tiny ship.  
The pilot was a mighty flying lass, 
the skipper drunk and stoned.  
Five passengers set sail that day 
for a 3-jump tour, 
a 3 jump tour.  

Local space was getting rough, 
the tiny ship was tossed 
If not for the courage of the fearless crew, 
the  dragoon would be lost, 
the dragoon would be lost.  

The ship set ground on this uncharted desert isle, 
with Shaunna, 
and the skipper too, 
A terrorist, and his pal.  
An Army vet, 
the Professor and the steward Ann, 
Here on Shaunna's Isle!

So this is the tale of our castaways, they're here for a
long, long time.  
They'll have to make the best of things, it's an uphill
climb.  
The first mate and his skipper, too 
will do their very best to make the others comfortable 
in their backwater planet nest.  
No comms, 
no lasers, 
no air rafts, 
not a single luxury 
like robin ca-rusoe, 
it's as primitive as can be.  
So join us here each week, my friends 
you're sure to get a smile 
from seven stranded castaways here on Shaunna's isle.


- -- 
later
christopher pratt
valen@gatecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:23:32 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Evil Uncle Ernie

>Evil Uncle Ed's Evil Uncle Ernie


Are you two evil veterinarians running an evil petting zoo?

- --Clif

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1309
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 24 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1310



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Moving Against Religions
World Builder Deluxe
TML FAQ?  Where?
Re: RPGs in boot camp
Re: Background Music
Re: RPGs in boot camp
Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard
Re: Mormons
Re: Inertial comp. and Gravity
Arrikam-class Bulk Freighter
Argash-class Trade Escort
Seasons Greetings
Nelsoi-class Fast Liner (GTL12)
Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double-standard? (was RE: Slight COnfusion)
LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Transporter
Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Re: Humour?, yet again... 
Re: Mormons 
Re: World Builder Deluxe 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:32:53 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

But the official position of the church was for Mormons to obey the law of
the Nazi land.

This is brought out in a very balanced series of articles in an Awake!
magazine by Jehovah's Witnesses.  After discovering the the J.W.'s in Utah
had little official literature exposing or combatting Mormon Doctrine (a
rather suspicious thing, if you think about it) the Watchtower came out with
one issue devoted to Mormonism.

- --Clif

>It was not a war, but a pogrom...  That is why we jews like the mormons...
>And the mormons us.

As a Torah-keeper, myself, this scares me.

>..  In WWII the mormons in germany hid many jews from
>the nazis...
>
- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:17:33 -0000
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net>
Subject: World Builder Deluxe

I am currently putting together Version 2.1 of the program and would welcome
input on items, suggestions or bug fixes that you would like to see
implemented in future versions.

At the present I plan to include the following in Version 2.1:-

1) The ability to load standard Sector files (*.SEC).
2) Travel Zones calculations.
3) Planetary Satellite generation.
4) Orbit Zone, Stellar Mass and Stellar Luminosity calculations for star
types A, B, F, G & K for ranges 6-9.

if there is anything else you think should be added let me know and I will
consider it.

Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@virgin.net
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:04:13 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: TML FAQ?  Where?

Subject says it all - I didn't realize one existed, but it's a
good idea if it doesn't.  Where can I get it?
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:04:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

In mail you write:

> No, each unique combination is assigned a number, as in the table below:
>
> value   |1      2       3       4       5       6
> --------------------------------------------------
> penny   |t      h       h       t       t       h
> nickle  |t      t       h       t       h       h
> dime    |t      t       t       h       h       h

You forgot two:

value   |1      2       3       4       5       6       7       8
- -----------------------------------------------------------------  
penny   |t      h       h       t       t       h       t       h
nickle  |t      t       h       t       h       h       h       t
dime    |t      t       t       h       h       h       t       h


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:26:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Background Music

In mail you write:

> At 11:07 AM 12/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>>I'm now picturing the 5th Doctor dealing with the Vargr..
>
>>        I am now picturing Vargr dealing with K9 and his disintegrator
>>snout.... =)
>
> The Daleks vs. Zhodani Warbots.  (at least the Warbots can climb stairs!)

In Traveller, the Daleks are equipped with CG!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 21:57:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

In mail you write:

> GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> >An advantage of CT over D&D and TNE:
>> >
>> >It is easier to fold up 2D6 than 1D20
>
> Instant D6 = 1 penny, 1 nickle, 1 dime. Flip all. With 3 coins you have
> 3! combinations, which is 6 in this case. Since CT ONLY uses D6, that's
> all you need.

But those combinations have nothing to do with *flipping* the coins.
They list the possible *orders* you can arrange them in. 

1 PND
2 PDN
3 NPD
4 NDP
5 DPN
6 DNP

Whereas *flipping* gives 8 possibilities.

   P  N  D
  -- -- --
1  H  H  H
2  H  H  T
3  H  T  H
4  H  T  T
5  T  H  H
6  T  H  T
7  T  T  H
8  T  T  T

Nice try.

I *think* you might be able to combine the above to get a 24 entry
table, but I wouldn't swear to it. 
 
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:31:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard

In mail you write:

> Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
>> 
>>> In my PBEM, the PC's have finally made it to the Mark system to
>>> claim the ship they inherited. Unfortunately, the ship seems to be
>>> missing. I'm sure if they could get hold of *me* they would torture
>>> me until I told they where it is hid. ;->
>> 
>> What makes you think that, Eris?  <grinning, oiling the whip>
>
> Hey! You only have a few percent stake, says I, busy peeling slivers of
> bamboo...

Actually, you'd be amazed what you can do with a teaspoon. <evil grin>

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:50:19 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Mormons

>>Oh, and in the RW the US government pretty much fought a war
>>against the Church of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) last century,
>>IIRC.
>
>That's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day

In a very early document, J.S., Jr. calls it "The Church of the Latter-Day
Saints"...  The "Jesus Christ" was added later.

Can't say I remember where this is recorded, but it surprised me when I saw
it.

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:09:57 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: Inertial comp. and Gravity

>On ships, you have to restrict thrust to levels where the crew can
>still move around, or else have everyone in acceleration couches or
>g-tanks.

And the cargo, furniture, dry stores, ammunition, stuff on your desk, ...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:32:48 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Arrikam-class Bulk Freighter

Arrikam-class Bulk Freighter
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

Simple bulk transport, the Arrikam is little more than a cargo hold with a
bridge and bare minimum of drive modules. Each crew member has his own
stateroom, and while some crew bunk together to sell middle passages, the
Arrikam is not rated to carry passengers.

2000-ton USL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 50 Maneuver, 40
Jump, 200 Fuel, 5 Staterooms, 4 Utility, 1682 cargo

Crew: 3 bridge crew, 2 engineers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 160000 km, Radscanner 1600 km

Statistics: EMass 1000.7 tonnes, LMass 9245.8 tonnes, Cost MCr 176.8, HP
90000
Performance: Accel 0.2 G, Jump 1, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume      Mass      Area      Cost     Crew
STRUCTURE
2000-ton hull                                 60.0       3.0   60000.0        
Airtight sealing                                         0.6                   
Armour: DR100, PD4                           300.0       3.6                   
DRIVE MODULES
Engineering module                   1.0       4.1       0.3                   
Jump drive (1 parsec)               40.0     160.0     124.0                1.6
Jump tanks                         200.0     260.0      32.0                   
Maneuver drive (0.2G)               50.0     170.0       8.0                0.8
WORKSPACE MODULES
Bridge                               2.5       8.6       4.0                3.0
4 utility modules                    4.0      46.0       1.2                   
Hold                              1682.0                                       
Cargo                                                                     
     
ACCOMODATION MODULES
5 staterooms                        20.0      12.0       0.1              
     
CONSUMABLES
Fuel                                                     0.1                   
TOTALS
Fully loaded & fitted out         1999.5    9430.7     176.9   60000.0      5.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew       1999.5    1020.7     176.8   60000.0      5.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:34:00 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Argash-class Trade Escort

Argash-class Trade Escort
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

The Argash-class Trade Escort was designed to accompany merchant shipping
in dangerous areas. Its high acceleration give the Argash the legs to get
between a merchant and danger, while its tough construction and two
Iramda-class fighters are enough to give even the most foolhardy commerce
raider pause

400-ton USL Hull, DR 200, PD 4, Hardened Bridge, Engineering, 221
Maneuver, 12 Jump, 80 Fuel, 9 Staterooms, 1 Utility, Spacedock (holds 20
tons, door), no cargoCrew: 2 bridge crew, 4 engineers, 4 gunners, 2
auxiliary crew
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 160000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
6 360-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 32, Dmg 6dx50(2), 1/2D Rng 32726 km, MxRng
98618 km, FP 4
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 1328.3 tonnes, LMass 1443.10 tonnes, Cost MCr 102.4, HP
42300
Performance: Accel 6.0 G, Jump 2, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume      Mass      Area      Cost     Crew
STRUCTURE
400-ton hull                                  25.0       1.3   25000.0         
Airtight sealing                                         0.3                   
Armour: DR200, PD4                           250.0       3.0                   
4 turrets                            4.0       3.3       0.2    3200.0      4.0
DRIVE MODULES
Engineering module                   1.0       4.1       0.3                   
Jump drive (2 parsecs)              12.0      48.0      37.2                0.5
Jump tanks                          80.0     104.0      12.8                   
Maneuver drive (6.0G)              221.0     751.4      35.4                3.7
WEAPON MODULES
3 Missile Racks                               39.0       0.1                   
6 360-MJ Lasers                               72.0       6.2                   
3 sandcasters                                 15.0       0.8                   
WORKSPACE MODULES
Hardened Bridge                      2.5      8.10       4.6                2.0
1 utility module                     1.0      11.5       0.3                   
Spacedock with 1 entrances          40.0       1.0       0.0              
     
ACCOMODATION MODULES
9 staterooms                        36.0      21.6       0.1              
     
SHIPS AUXILIARIES
Carried ships                                                             
  2.0
CONSUMABLES
Fuel                                                     0.0                   
Missiles                                                 7.4                   
Sand cannisters                                          0.2                   
TOTALS
Fully loaded & fitted out          397.5    1472.9     120.3   28200.0     12.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew        397.5    1354.9     102.4   28200.0      6.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:25:01 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Seasons Greetings

        Happy Christmas to everyone, and may you all have the best that
friends, family and future have to offer!

        Michel, Amanda and Jean-Michel

	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:58:21 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Nelsoi-class Fast Liner (GTL12)

Nelsoi-class Fast Liner (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

Small but sleek, the Nelsoi can be found running high-priority passengers
and cargo from the Imperial Core to outlying sectors. Even at jump-6, this
is a lengthy trip. While low berths may seem odd for such a vessel, some
passengers prefer to spend the time in cryosuspension.

800-ton USL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 15 Maneuver, 56 Jump,
480 Fuel, 46 Staterooms, 9 Low Berths (holds 36 cryotubes), 2 Utility,
Sickbay, 50 cargo

Crew: 2 bridge crew, engineer, 4 gunners, 2 medics, 3 stewards
Passengers: 40 high passengers, 36 low passengers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.02 million
km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
3 405-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 33, Dmg 5dx100(2), 1/2D Rng 41635 km, MxRng
124909 km, FP 7
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 1222.5 tonnes, LMass 1467.6 tonnes, Cost MCr 265.6, HP
64800
Performance: Accel 1.0 G, Jump 6, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume      Mass      Area      Cost     Crew
STRUCTURE
800-ton hull                                  20.0       2.0   40000.0         
Airtight sealing                                         0.4                   
Armour: DR100, PD4                            80.0      0.10                   
4 turrets                            4.0       1.7       0.2    3200.0      4.0
DRIVE MODULES
Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2                   
Jump drive (6 parsecs)              56.0     224.0     170.8                0.6
Jump tanks                         480.0     624.0      76.8                   
Maneuver drive (1.0G)               15.0      60.0       4.3                0.2
WEAPON MODULES
3 Missile Racks                               39.0       0.1                   
3 405-MJ Lasers                               23.4       2.0                   
6 sandcasters                                 30.0       1.5                   
WORKSPACE MODULES
Bridge                               2.5       7.3       3.1                2.0
2 utility modules                    2.0      23.0       0.5                   
Sickbay                              1.0       0.9       0.2                2.0
Hold                                50.0                                  
     
Cargo                                                                     
     
ACCOMODATION MODULES
46 staterooms                      184.0      92.0       0.6                  
Low berths for 36 cryotubes          4.5      18.0      1.10              
     
CONSUMABLES
Fuel                                                     0.2                   
Missiles                                                 5.1                   
Sand cannisters                                          0.5              
     
TOTALS
Fully loaded & fitted out          800.0   1496.10     271.3   43200.0     12.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew        800.0   1246.10     265.6   43200.0      3.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:06:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double-standard? (was RE: Slight COnfusion)

- ---David Reed  wrote:

> obtrav: i'm coming to this thread late (having just rejoined the list), but
> i'm fixin' to embroil my players in a terrorist/guerilla war of a similar
> nature, and i'm curious how other groups of players have dealt with the
> moral dilemmas inherent in such a conflict.  who are your players more
> likely to identify with: the tyrants, the innocent victims, the resistance,
> or the biggest pile of credits?

Well, I can only speak for me, as a player. If the group is a guerilla group
that goes after well defined types of targets, ie the forces of the enemy, then 
my character might or might not identify with them, depending on why they
struggle. Killing the civilian supporters or bystanders, they are just terrorests 
and beneath contempt.

As you might imagine from the above, I, as a player (and in RL, for that 
matter), would have no empathy for terrorists. Hunt them down, would be 
my mantra.

Terry
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:07:20 -0800
From: Mike Wittek <mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com>
Subject: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

All,
I am looking for what is considered the best window character generation
program on the Net. I would prefer T4 generation rules, but I am looking
for them all. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
- --
Mike Wittek | Vacaville, California
mailto:mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com | http://www.thelair.cnchost.com
     "Democracy isn't just the best form of government; It's the only
one even remotely worth a damn. Only democracy guarantees that people
get what they deserve."   --Zena Marley

DISCLAIMER: All that I write is my own opinion, and my opinion may not
be the opinion of my school or electronic courier. For that matter, it
may not be your opinion, but deal with it.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:05:38 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Transporter

Hey guys:

I need a scientific explanation for a device that USED to be a
teleduplicator, would recreate an object or living thing at the atomic level
from particles found at the destination...

...but now it is actually able to hold the consciousness so that the product
at the destination will be the same person, though possibly different on the
physical level.  The first version was only making a clone that possessed
the memories of the person being "scanned" at the origin.

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:19:15 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

At 01:07 PM 24/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>All,
>I am looking for what is considered the best window character generation
>program on the Net. I would prefer T4 generation rules, but I am looking
>for them all. Any help would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>--
>Mike Wittek | Vacaville, California
>
        Hi, Mike!

        If you check out the software link on my traveller page, you will
find a Classic Traveller character generation program.  It's my work, so
I'll spare you the "impartial" review of it =).  My favorite feature,
however, is that you can create any Service you like and add it yourself to
the program.

        http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller

        If you have any questions, please let me know.

        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:40:43 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Humour?, yet again... 

> >From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
> >Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 
> ...
> >You mean some people actually want to stop the One World Government? 
> >Wonders will never cease. Guess I'd better bring this up at the next meeting, 
> >we really do need to explain ourselves better. It so easy for people to 
> >misunderstand. Maybe we should go back to "floridating" water again.
>                                         
>   My god, you put _alligators_ in the water? Does the SPCA know about this?

*NOT* alligators.  *Palm trees*.  We figure people like toothpicks more than 
they like luggage.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:52:53 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Mormons 

> Alan Bradley wrote:
> 
> >Oh, and in the RW the US government pretty much fought a war
> >against the Church of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) last century,
> >IIRC.
> 
> That's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.  Evicted
> from Missouri in 1838 by state governmental order. Evicted by mob
> violence from Illinois in 1845.  Sent a 400 man Battalion to
> serve in the Mexican war, while en route to Utah in 1846-47.
> Detachment of US Army sent to supress a non-existent rebellion in
> 1857.  Forced by increasingly strict laws and penalties beginning
> about 1862 to abandon religiously sanctioned polygyny in 1890. 
> Utah inhabitants applied for statehood in 1849, not granted until
> 1896.

At the time that the Mormons arrived in Utah, the entire territory was the
property of Mexico.  They had fled the U.S. to practice their religion in
peace.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:54:31 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: World Builder Deluxe 

> I am currently putting together Version 2.1 of the program and would welcome
> input on items, suggestions or bug fixes that you would like to see
> implemented in future versions.
> 
> At the present I plan to include the following in Version 2.1:-
> 
> 1) The ability to load standard Sector files (*.SEC).
> 2) Travel Zones calculations.
> 3) Planetary Satellite generation.
> 4) Orbit Zone, Stellar Mass and Stellar Luminosity calculations for star
> types A, B, F, G & K for ranges 6-9.
> 
> if there is anything else you think should be added let me know and I will
> consider it.

The ability to load Trav Tools format sectors (*.UWP files).

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1310
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 24 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1311



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: GURPS rules
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: High Guard its Product
Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard
Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard 
Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)
Re: Background Music
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: Mormons
Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 
Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 
Re: Nelsoi-class Fast Liner (GTL12)
Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 
Re: A Church Caves In to Govt.
Re: Humour?, yet again...
Re: Humour?, yet again... 
Re: High Guard its Product 
Re: High Guard its Product 
Re: Mostly Maintainence of Right Action
Re: GURPS

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:58:11 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS rules

Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:42:23 -0500, rodmanb@mindspring.com

>I've played CT and MT off an on for 13 years now.  Being the old curmudgeon
>that I am, I'm a little apprehensive about the new GURPS version.  I
>should've prefaced that statement with the fact that I haven't read the new
>GURPS version.   Naturally, I take it it follows the GURPS system rules?  I
>was wondering what you thought about it.

Well, as some who chose GURPS for his Traveller mechanics
before GURPS Traveller was ever agreed to, I though it was
great :-)

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:36:39 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

In a message dated 12/24/98 9:16:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
wmacdude@concentric.net writes:

<< Yea Where?
 
 With my luck down in Los Wages...
 
 Evyn
  >>

Bingo!...Let me guess; Reno?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 98 18:00:46 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

On 12/23/98 at 10:29 AM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:

>Dom> <look offstage> ERIS! You've got company.....

><Calling out from offstage> You said that when I showed up...

>See - only the truly faithful can stay on the path to enlightenment
>through the the Guidance of Book 5, Adventure 5 and Supplement 9. ;-)

There are *many* paths to Traveller, for it is not the book, but
the journey that leads to enlightenment.  Embrace the difference,
welcome the insights from all the books, for in someone's eyes we
could *all* be branded heretic!


Eris,
    we'll convert these monotravellerists yet! ;->
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 98 18:12:54 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard

On 12/23/98 at 05:41 PM,  "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> said:

>> > > In my PBEM, the PC's have finally made it to the Mark system to claim the ship they inherited. Unfortunately, the ship seems to be missing.  I'm sure if they could get hold of *me* they would torture me until I told they where it is hid. ;->
>> > 
>> > What makes you think that, Eris?  <grinning, oiling the whip>
>> > 
>> 
>> Hey! You only have a few percent stake, says I, busy peeling slivers of
>> bamboo...

>Maybe so, but you think I'm gonna let you guys have *ALL* the fun???

Well, stop slugging down the "wodka with Monk 4 chasers" and get on with actually *finding the ship! ;-p

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:54:04 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Terrorism: moral dilemmas or a double standard 

> On 12/23/98 at 05:41 PM,  "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> said:
> 
> >> > > In my PBEM, the PC's have finally made it to the Mark system to claim the ship they inherited. Unfortunately, the ship seems to be missing.  I'm sure if they could get hold of *me* they would torture me until I told they where it is hid. ;->
> >> > 
> >> > What makes you think that, Eris?  <grinning, oiling the whip>
> >> > 
> >> 
> >> Hey! You only have a few percent stake, says I, busy peeling slivers of
> >> bamboo...
> 
> >Maybe so, but you think I'm gonna let you guys have *ALL* the fun???
> 
> Well, stop slugging down the "wodka with Monk 4 chasers" and get on with actually *finding the ship! ;-p

Just waitin for the rest of the gangsters to show up.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:51:18 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)

>From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
>Subject: Re: Star Frontiers (TSR)
...
>I have to disagree...  The system is not very good, but I do like the alien
>races & some of the ideas in the game...  Like 2001 & 2010 sourcebooks... 
>Added them into MTU...  So you do have the reason the 3I does not like AI
>computers...  HAL...

  Amazingly, the boxed figure sets can sometimes still be had new for
very little ($10 US, ~$15 in funny-coloured stuff). I got several last
year at Sentry Box <www.sentrybox.com> ; the "PC/adventurer" aliens
weren't too bad, and the bad guy ships box had worm warships up from 1.5
to 4 inches long. Apparently there was a second box of 25mm critters,
which are also still available - I found someone who had just bought a
box to use the mini's for various Blood Bowl player positions.

  Some of the scenarios are fairly good, esp. the SFKH series.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:27:55 -0000
From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Background Music

Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 11:07 AM 12/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
> > > I'm now picturing the 5th Doctor dealing with the Vargr..
> > I am now picturing Vargr dealing with K9 and his disintegrator
> > snout.... =)
>
> The Daleks vs. Zhodani Warbots.  (at least the Warbots can climb
> stairs!)


Contrary to popular opinion, Daleks _can_ climb stairs.  The high
point of Sylvester McCoy's reign as the Doctor came in the  story
"Remembrance Of The Daleks" when a Dalek levitated up a flight of
stairs.  Also, less explicitly, in "Genesis Of The  Daleks"  (Tom
Baker's Doctor) they are capable of  crossing  war-ravaged  rough
terrain from the Kalid's scientific bunker to the Thal domed city
... not possible if all they had under were wheels.



Regards PLST

"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people"
- - Mr Garrison, South Park

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:33:33 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

>From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
>Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions
...
>They had been...  Read the biography of Joeseph Smith or the bio of his
>Bodyguard...  US Cavalry units attacked the Mormons several times...  It
>was the only Pogrom in the History of the US...  It was only stopped by the
>Civil War...

  Would the suppression of the Cherokee settlements centred on New Echota
count? I'm unsure as to whether religion was a significant factor in that.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:50:36 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 

>Hmm, it is so "sore" that they sustained the "Prophet's" "Manifesto" which
>basically asked whether the Mormon members should continue to be persecuted
>or give up polygamy, thus gaining statehood for Utah?  It is so "sore" that
>they STILL believe in upholding the laws of the land, even if they go
>against previously revealed "truth."  The only people who are sore about it
>are those still practicing polygamy because they were excommunicated for
>being obedient to what had been revealed as truth from "God" by the
prophets
>who came before.


    This wasn't "caving in" to the Government. The LDS church has been given the
direction to obey the laws of the land. Those are the laws of any land that you are
living in. Any exceptions to the above statement is judged on a case-by-case
basis.

>Let's see, I have it here, somewhere...
>Yeah... anyone who wants to read how an infallible religious leader caves in
>to government authority should go to their local library and read the
>"Official Declaration 1" at the end of the "Doctrine and Covenants" of The
>Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints .


    After taking it to the US Supreme court and failing to "win" the case, the
leaders were faced with the decision as to whether to uphold that decision 
or not.
    During this decision-making process, it was determined that the "gift" of
polygamy was being taken away because the members of the church were
not living in accordance with the laws laid down by the Lord.

>From what I understand, the vote sustaining the elimination of polygamy in
>Mormon culture was only unanimous because those who would have voted against
>it were afraid of being excommunicated.


    Then you misunderstand. It was unanimous because nobody felt it in their
hearts that  they should vote otherwise. Those who oppose are free to do so,
and will not be ex-communicated for opposing a decision.
    Opposition to sustaining the leaders or their decisions is not grounds, and
never has been in the LDS church for ex-communication. And I doubt that it
ever will be.

>Go to a sustaining of Church leaders, sometime.  Whereas in other churches
>you KNOW that people have big problems with the minister being "a man of
>God", in Mormonism EVERYONE (that I have ever seen, and I've seen quite a
>bit back in my Mormon days) votes to sustain and support the leadership. It
>is culturally unacceptable to fail to sustain the leadership just as it is
>"bad" to fail to partake of the bread and water, even though you might
>personally feel "unworthy" to partake.


Everyone is given the opportunity to vote whether they support the leadership or
not. There have been times (not many but some) when people opposed either at
the "sustainment" or in private- and the problems were addressed between those concerned.
Partaking of the sacrament, "bread and water", is also an optional activity. Those
who are unworthy to partake, should not do so. However, there are very few reasons
for a person not to, and there are ways that the individual can easily avoid being
"marked" as not partaking.

>These sort of experiences prompted my comment that religion is just another
>sort of conspiracy.  The sad thing is that they are not isolated to
>Mormonism.  No longer am I into organized religion...
>--Clif


Religion, Politics, Science, or any other inanimate object, other than a conspiracy,
is not a conspiracy. There may be people in any organization who are conspirators,
and any group can be used for the purpose- that does not however make the group
one, only those members within.

My apologies to the list, however as long as there is going to be open flaming of my
religion along with the twisting of the truth about it- I will defend it.

Jesse.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:05:22 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

>But the official position of the church was for Mormons to obey the law of
>the Nazi land.


That's right. Adherance to the law, and agreement with that law are not the
same thing. In obeying those laws, the church was allowed to survive there,
and was able to do much more good than was possible by fighting those
laws, or abandoning the area.

>This is brought out in a very balanced series of articles in an Awake!
>magazine by Jehovah's Witnesses.  After discovering the the J.W.'s in Utah
>had little official literature exposing or combatting Mormon Doctrine (a
>rather suspicious thing, if you think about it) the Watchtower came out with
>one issue devoted to Mormonism.
>--Clif

Imagine that. Jehovah's Witnesses discovered that they did not have much
in the way of propaganda to turn people against the church and its doctrine,
so they dug up what mud they could find, and made up what they couldn't.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:06:59 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

Was there such a thing as a secular American Indian?

- --Clif

>  Would the suppression of the Cherokee settlements centred on New Echota
>count? I'm unsure as to whether religion was a significant factor in that.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:11:31 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Mormons

>>>Oh, and in the RW the US government pretty much fought a war
>>>against the Church of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) last century,
>>>IIRC.
>>That's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day
>In a very early document, J.S., Jr. calls it "The Church of the Latter-Day
>Saints"...  The "Jesus Christ" was added later.

>Can't say I remember where this is recorded, but it surprised me when I saw
>it.
>--Clif


Alright, proposing that this is accurate. If I call a game shop "The gamers' shop"
it doesn't mean that gamers own it, but that they partake of the offerings of that
shop.
In the same light, *if* JS Jr. called it the "Church of the Latter-day Saints" then
he was undoubtedly calling it the Church that the Latter-day Saints partake of,
not that which they own.
It is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and is the only religious
institution today which follows the pattern of the church as established by
Jesus-Christ when he was on earth.

Later.

Jesse.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:11:11 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 

Oh, as if "no one" ever twists the truth in favor of Mormonism.  Plain fact
of the matter is that I am still and official member on the books, in
full-standing, so my word concerning Mormonism has at least as much weight,
if not more, since I have no vested interest in Mormonism one way or the
other.

- --Clif

P.S.:  You guys ever talk about the "investment paradigm" on this list?

>My apologies to the list, however as long as there is going to be open
>flaming of my
>religion along with the twisting of the truth about it- I will defend it.
>
>Jesse.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:18:07 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 

>Oh, as if "no one" ever twists the truth in favor of Mormonism.  Plain fact
>of the matter is that I am still and official member on the books, in
>full-standing, so my word concerning Mormonism has at least as much weight,
>if not more, since I have no vested interest in Mormonism one way or the
>other.
>--Clif


Yes, I suppose that the truth is twisted in favor on occassion. However, it
is quite apparent that nobody is doing so on this list at present. If you've
got no vested interest in Mormonism one way or the other, then why are
you trying to flame it ?

Jesse.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:15:03 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Nelsoi-class Fast Liner (GTL12)

Ok, Rob, is this one going to be for the Mac only too?! You are such a
#$$% tease to those of us under the lash of Emperor Bill!

;^)
Mike Peters


Rob Prior wrote:
> 
> Nelsoi-class Fast Liner (GTL12)
> Designed by Robert Prior
> 
> This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller
> 
> SHIP DESCRIPTION
> 
<Snipped>
> (Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
> Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:32:50 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 

> Oh, as if "no one" ever twists the truth in favor of Mormonism.  Plain fact
> of the matter is that I am still and official member on the books, in
> full-standing, so my word concerning Mormonism has at least as much weight,
> if not more, since I have no vested interest in Mormonism one way or the
> other.

<soapbox>

If you've got 'no vested interest in Mormonism' one way or the other, then
howcome you've been slamming it the last 2 days?

I've been in the Church all my life.  And I refused to take your trolls on the
Church because I did not think it was appropriate to discuss it in this list. 
There are newsgroups dedicated to religious discussions.  This is not one of
them.

I will say *ONCE* for the record, and will post no more on this subject, that I
do *NOT* appreciate seeing my personal religious beliefs slandered in the
manner that Clif has done.  How he would react were someone to slander his is
of course up to him, and I refuse to engage in that discussion as well.

After his reply to this post comes in, he's for the killfile.

</soapbox>
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:21:25 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt.

Please note that I have snipped all references to previous posts in this
thread! It appears that the typical TML flamefest is about to rear it's
extremely ugly head again! I am asking that this now be taken of List,
since it no longer even resembles something OT. I have nothing against
releigion, organized or not, however I also don't believe that this is
the proper forum to discuss the merits, or, possible lack thereof, of
ANY belief system! ( Unless it's from 101 Religions).

Please respect the feelings and beliefs of the rest of us, as you would
have us respect yours. (unwritten but very much needed commandment).

Thanks
Mike Peters

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 98 21:45:10 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Humour?, yet again...

On 12/24/98 at 08:22 AM,  shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) said:

>>Wonders will never cease. Guess I'd better bring this up at the next meeting, 
>>we really do need to explain ourselves better. It so easy for people to 
>>misunderstand. Maybe we should go back to "floridating" water again.

Ah, heck! Our water comes like that naturally.
                                        
>  My god, you put _alligators_ in the water? Does the SPCA know about
>  this?

Gators cost extra. ;->

Eris,
    Florida is my state
    Florida State is my school...not really, but it sounds good.

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:05:30 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Humour?, yet again... 

> >>Maybe we should go back to "floridating" water again.
> 
> Ah, heck! Our water comes like that naturally.
>                                         
> >  My god, you put _alligators_ in the water? Does the SPCA know about
> >  this?
> 
> Gators cost extra. ;->

And they eat too much.

> Eris,
>     Florida is my state
>     Florida State is my school...not really, but it sounds good.

Florida State Pennitentary is your mail forwarding address?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:14:23 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> > > << 
> > >  Heh.  You were in the Student Union playing pinochle that day, right?
> > >   >>
> > > now THAT brings back memories....
> > Me, too.  I lost a *LOTTA* money playin pinochle in the Student Union.
> 
> For me, it was poker...  Pinochle players at ASU where, well what can I
> say...  Not really men...  The real men played poker & drank beer...  Until
> they were drunk & lot all their money to me...  Because I did not drink
> when playing poker...  *weg*

Been tehre, done that.  <grin>

> I know I am pure evil...  I GM Traveller...

I resemble that remark.  I *HIGHLY* resemble that remark.  Just ask my players.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:16:32 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> > They're the ones wanting jihad, not me!!
> 
> That is what everyone says..  I say if you want a Jyhad, then let us attack
> not ones who are almost like us, but those who really need it...
> 
> The people who play, the only game I think should be burned...  Magic:  The
> Gathering...

Agreed.  The ads they ran last year adverted all you need is 'a deck a brain &
a friend'.  My roomie & I instantly chanted '*PICK ONE!*'

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:51:09
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Mostly Maintainence of Right Action

>From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: A Church Caves in to Govt.
>
>   Isn't this WAY off topic? *I* personally disagree and object, but I
>don't know that most people on the list know or care what you are talking
>about.  Religious rants are no more germane to Traveller than political
>ones.

Possibly less.


>   But the Imperium never had paper guarantees of rights or
>liberties to begin with.  It was founded on the idea that its
>ruling nobles would be honorable, fair, responsible, etc. 
>Clearly the reality fell well short of the ideal, but if there
>were no ideal to begin with; if most of the nobles were selfish
>and opressive most of the time, the Imperium would certainly
>never have lasted as long as it did.
>   So, what kept the nobles *noble*?

Paper rights may not be the actual issue.

Australia, for example, does not have freedom of the press. The government
can issue a D-notice, which prevents a particular subject being written on,
or suppresses an article.

Now, they havent been used much since an incident in WW2, where a paper was
ordered to censor a story, they disagreed that the story was about National
Security, the censors were insistent, so the paper ran with half of page
one blacked out.

There is debate at the moment about whether or not we Australians put a
Bill of Rights in our constitution when we get around to replacing the
Queen of England as our Head of State.

Some prominent lawyers are arguing against codifying rights, as once you
codify something you leave gaps for smart lawyers to exploit.

The other example I would use is that in a part-feudal, part bureaucratic
system, you often have a wide divergence of views and policies among the
decision makers.

The historical example I would use is Admiral Coligny, who was the Admiral
of France during the 16th century. He was a a Protestant in a government
that was an active participant in the Counter-Reformation. The Spanish
Chancellery contains a wonderful summary of a conversation in 1529 between
the Ambassador of France and the then-King of Spain, the aggressivly
Catholic Phillip II ...

'The ambassador did not hesitate to declare <to the King of Spain> that the
Admiral was a very bad man and that the King put no trust in him, although
be it said, that he was doing less harm inside the court than outside it'.

To pull this directly into Traveller, I see it as quite probable that you
could have various nobles and important bureaucrats having widely divergent
views, and all may act in the Imperial Name.

Now, this is going to put a practical limit on what you can get away with
along the lines of selfish and oppressive - it may be *your* planet, but if
others in the subsector feels that 'He's letting the team down, what ? Bit
of a cad. Someone should do something about it, before the natives get too
restless'.

For example, let us assume that a noble is ruthlessly exploiting the
peasants, and the other members of the ruling elite in the subsector think
he's gone a Bit Too Far.

The obvious first step is to invite the noble in question to a ball or
similar, and issue quiet warnings to cool it.

The second step could involve signalling social displeasure ('Well, Davon
my boy ... the Marquis is having a bit of a shin-dig, and he's decided to
invite this chappie on Argulon V ... bloke by the name of Chay or
something. Involved in a bit of a to-do with that rotter Baron Mogar. What
say you see him and pass along this RSVP ... the Marquis understands if he
cant make it ... but I promised him I'd see what I could do ...').

The third step is to actually assist opponents of the noble in question -
appointing their supporters to positions, expiditing attempts by third
parties to pull the nible down a peg and so on ('Sublieutant, I understand
that your brother-in-law was just arrested on Argulon V ... would you be
interested in some leave ? The Vice-Admiral's ADC also mentioned that you
might like to join him for a quiet game of cards').

The final-but-one step is to use the available Imperial resources to
indirectly foil the noble in question ('Sir, I have orders to ask for the
assistance of the government of Argulon V in a practice landing for the
1012st Marine Drop Battallion' ... 'But the planned drop zone is in the
Sierra Modena Mountains ... we are campaigning there against the remnants
of the rebels' ... 'Sir, my orders are quite explicit in that I am to
request the lawful authorities on Argulon V for their assistance in the
practice landing for the 1012nd Marine Drop Battallion in the Sierra Modena
region of Argulon V. You may, of course, decline to provide this assistance
to the Imperium').

The final step is, of course, direct use of Imperial resources to directly
fix the problem. BYO Warrant.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:51:39 -0500
From: rodmanb@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: GURPS

All in all, my fears about GURPS seem unfounded.  Is anyone playing in
Louisville?

- -Rod

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1311
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, December 25 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1312



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: High Guard its Product
Holidays...
Re: Mormons
Re: World Builder Deluxe
Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 
Re: Holidays... 
Re: Clif
Religion, Mormons etc.
The Nth Patron (was Re: Overthrowing Government?)
Poetry in the Third Imperium
Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 
Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 
[OT]  Remebering Those That Are Away During the Season
Re: High Guard its Product 
Re: Humour?, yet again... 
Re: High Guard its Product 
Re: Holidays... 
Re: Poetry in the Third Imperium
Flying a grav vehicle
Vacc suit questions
Imperial combat armor: The helmet

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:47:38 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

Maybe you should read the articles before jumping to conclusions, you biased
apostate of Yisrael.

- --Clif

>Imagine that. Jehovah's Witnesses discovered that they did not have much
>in the way of propaganda to turn people against the church and its doctrine,
>so they dug up what mud they could find, and made up what they couldn't.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 21:58:53 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

> From: Eris Reddoch <eris@gulf.net>
> Subject: Re: High Guard its Product
> >Dom> <look offstage> ERIS! You've got company.....
> 
> ><Calling out from offstage> You said that when I showed up...
> 
> >See - only the truly faithful can stay on the path to enlightenment
> >through the the Guidance of Book 5, Adventure 5 and Supplement 9. ;-)
> 
> There are *many* paths to Traveller, for it is not the book, but
> the journey that leads to enlightenment.  Embrace the difference,
> welcome the insights from all the books, for in someone's eyes we
> could *all* be branded heretic!

Hell, if you all will remember when I joined the list, it was only CT & MT
for me...  But, I have picked up some TNE & T4 stuff because of you all... 
*weg*

> Eris,
>     we'll convert these monotravellerists yet! ;->

Maybe...

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:01:42 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Holidays...

Happy Hanukkah everyone...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:52:08 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Mormons

You looking to get brownie points from the false prophets and apostles?

>It is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and is the only
>religious
>institution today which follows the pattern of the church as established by
>Jesus-Christ when he was on earth.

Wrong.  The First Century Church had ONLY 12 apostles.  Judas forfeited his
office by his apostasy.  There was one apostle for each tribe of Yisrael.

You have had a perpetual succession of 12 apostolic offices, NOT the
leadership of the original and only 12 apostles.  Does that mean that a new
tribe of Yisrael was formed each time a new man was appointed a Mormon
apostle?  Your ridiculous organization ruins the whole meaning of "12" in
the first place.
>
>Later.
>
>Jesse.


I can keep this up as long as you want, Yishai!

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 15:56:09
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: World Builder Deluxe

>From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net>
>Subject: World Builder Deluxe
>
>I am currently putting together Version 2.1 of the program and would welcome
>input on items, suggestions or bug fixes that you would like to see
>implemented in future versions.

Automatic generation of the most important people on the planet. Title is
linked to gov type, name weighted towards ethnicity of the planet, and a
couple of randomly-generated personality traits.

If there is a Scout or Naval base, rank, name and traits for the
appropriate Scout Commander and Base Admiral as well.

Now, most PCs are unlikely to actually interact with any of these people,
but it would be nice to know who they are, so the GM can say 'The Director
of the mining colony is Jameson Abernathy ... the guy talking to you is one
of his flunkies'.

On a subsector level, a quick generator for the appropraite Imperial,
Naval, Scout and Megacorporate officials, complete with names, ranks,
traits and a weighted location chart (weighted towards subsector capital
and most important worlds).

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:53:55 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 

I'm not.  I'm only trying to represent it accurately, for the sake of true
history.

- --Clif

>If you've
>got no vested interest in Mormonism one way or the other, then why are
>you trying to flame it ?
>
>Jesse.


A Christmas Question:  If your church is so much like the original Church,
why do you celebrate Christmas?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:05:30 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Holidays... 

> Happy Hanukkah everyone...

Ain't you about a week late, dood?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:08:36
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Clif

Clif,

This is my first and final warning. Unless you rapidly develop much better
social skills (especially those to do with keeping on topic and not
slandering other peoples religious beliefs), then I am going to request the
moderator remove your account from the list.

Now, the moderator may attach absolutely no weight to mu recomendation.

But, personally, I wouldnt chance it.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:57:10 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Religion, Mormons etc.

Gentlemen,

This has nothing to do with Traveller. Please take it off the list. This
list is for discussion of the Traveller science-fiction roleplaying game,
not for debate over religious issues.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:23:42 +1200
From: rfields@actrix.gen.nz (Richard Fields)
Subject: The Nth Patron (was Re: Overthrowing Government?)

A funny thing happened to on the train while commuting to work earlier this
week, I'd started waring an old woodlands pattern tie from BQM again and
with TMLs printed out and scribbling notes in the margins with a red pen, a
conversation somehow went like this:

'Overthrowing the Government? Far from it good sir, we seek to restore the
Government. The rightful Government was over thrown by a combination of
stealth, deceit, scandal and complacency. We are loyalists not
revolutionaries. While we can't offer great financial reward at present,
when the restoration is complete, and if history has not judged us too
badly, then something can always be arranged.'

The background info was all very circumstantial, the news clippings and
articles tied into the brief rather well. I had then, and have now personal
doubts you see, but it makes sense. The long running series of retirements,
the motor crashes, the almost obsessive Government policy of hiring in
'Consultants', the sale of state assets. Then the targets were all not too
VIPish you know the type, Lover of the Speech Writer to ... , Mother-in-Law
of the Chauffer to ... , Cousin of the Associate Minister of ... , the
middle executive class consultants and advisers (surprisingly included some
in private companies). Not all targets were for assassination but were
chosen for 'A maximum impact for minimum risk to effort ratio'. The
instance that no uninvolved civilians (I recall at one point being called
voters) be harmed was most explicate.
Options:

1.      The patron is a genuine counter revolutionary, plotting the
restoration of the rightful government as laid down in the <constitution/
founding charter/ treaty of ...> from the captured authority. The cell like
structure of the movement is such that the restoration will occur with or
without the party's help or hindrance as they can't lead authorities to any
one other than their immediate patron if captured. Some resorces and
support can be found even from unexpected quarters.

2.      The patron is a counter revolutionary, if of a lost cause. While
the claim of legitimacy is good, the population don't care, their freedoms
and lifestyle are largely unchanged. If the counter revolution resorts to
(or is exposed as using) violent means, then sentiment may turn against it.

3.      The patron is an out patient on a light psychiatric (revolving door
sympathy) ward. Sadly for the party, he or she has not been taking their
tablets lately. The story is very plausible, detail is well constructed,
but any serious background check will reveal flaws. The authorities know
this person well and if told will send some police and psych staff to
collect him or her then interview the party for some time.

4.      The patron is a using the party to carry out a number of vengeance
strikes for his or her personal satisfaction. The data on the targets is
good, some support in equipment and cash is readily available. But once the
real targets (ex employer or ex lover (s)) are dealt with the patron
vanishes. Possibly informing police of the party's description. There is
also a list of targets for the players to go on with, for the good of the
revolution, you understand.

5.      The patron is an adjustor for an unpopular faction who will dump
the party as soon as they are set on their way. The targets are real
enough, but the purpose is a complete sham.

6.      The patron is an agent provocateur for:
        1-2.    The local government who are seeking an expendable group to
justify their imposing tougher laws on control of day to day activities.
        3-4.    A revolutionary faction who have lost heavily when trying
to use nonviolent means of gaining power.
        5-6     A foreign power (state or corporation) set on seising
control of the government.

Richard Fields
New Zealand, a small group of islands southwest of California
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/7510/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:35:45 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Poetry in the Third Imperium

As I was getting ready to e-mail Rudyard Kipling's poem "Eddi's Service"
to some friends and family for the Christmas holiday, two questions
occurred to me:

1.  In the 3d Imperium, is there an "Heroic" school of poetry, similar
to Kipling or Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade"?  If so, is it
the dominant theme of poetry, a strong subsidiary theme, or a
disreputable (in the eyes of the literary establishment) theme?

2.  Are poets such as Rudyard Kipling more popular in the 3d Imperium
than they are today [late 20th century Terra]?  In other words, would an
average citizen of the 3d Imperium be more or less likely to recognize
references to Kipling or similar poets, compared to the average citizen
of late 20th century Terra in general, and late 20th century America in
particular?

Your feedback is appreciated.

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:07:05 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 

>I'm not.  I'm only trying to represent it accurately, for the sake of true
>history.
>--Clif

Then do so accurately. Not through the use of propaganda designed
and distributed to compete with the church in a circle that such
competition should not exist.

>A Christmas Question:  If your church is so much like the original Church,
>why do you celebrate Christmas?


Our Church does not celebrate Christmas. The members of our church
do so, and that is because they choose to- not because of some dictate
or other "ruling" within it.
The purpose of the Christmas celebration, as far as I'm concerned is to
honor the day of birth of Jesus Christ. Presents represent the gift of
giving.

Later.

Jesse.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:21:36 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 

Sorry all, that one was meant to go privately.

Jesse.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:25:40 EST
From: CPsyop@aol.com
Subject: [OT]  Remebering Those That Are Away During the Season

Just a quick little piece I first found while I was in Bosnia last Christmas.
This goes is for those the do their duty and place themselves in harm's way
during the holiday season.  For all sailors, soldiers, airmen, and Marines,
from all faiths, from all nations.  Thank you all again.

"THE SOLDIERS NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS"

  By Major Bruce W. Lovely

   (With Apologies to Clement Moore Who First Wrote the Story for His Children
in 1822 also credit given to M/Sgt Noah Brazos Ross, RA18033195, a USArmy 18th
Field Artillery survivor of Utah Beach, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, Battle
for the Ardennes, Deutschland  wrote "Daddy's Christmas" (Soldier's
Christmas)" as a Bonita, Montague County, Texas, highschool exercise in 1937)

                              Twas the night before Christmas, he lived all alone,
                                In a one bedroom house made of plaster & stone.
                               I had come down the chimney with presents to give
                                   And to see just who in this home did live.

                                  I looked all about a strange sight I did see,
                                   No tinsel, no presents, not even a tree.
                               No stocking by the fire, just boots filled with sand,
                                 On the wall hung pictures of far distant lands.

                                  With medals and badges, awards of all kind
                                   A sober thought came through my mind.
                                For this house was different, so dark and dreary,
                          I knew I had found the home of a soldier, once I could see clearly.

                                 I heard stories about them, I had to see more
                               So I walked down the hall and pushed open the
door.
                                   And there he lay sleeping silent alone,
                                Curled up on the floor in his one bedroom
home.

                                 His face so gentle, his room in such
disorder,                                                        
                                  Not how I pictured a United States soldier
						Was this the hero of whom Id just read?
                                 Curled up in his poncho, a floor for his bed?

                               His head was clean shaven, his weathered face
tan,
                                 I soon understood this was more than a man.
                                 For I realized the families that I saw that
night
                              Owed their lives to these men who were willing
to fight.

                                Soon round the world, the children would
play,
                             And grownups would celebrate on a bright
Christmas day.
                                They all enjoyed freedom each month of the
year,
                                 Because of soldiers like this one lying here.

                                  I couldnt help wonder how many lay alone
                                On a cold Christmas Eve in a land far from home.
                                Just the very thought brought a tear to my eye,
                                   I dropped to my knees and started to cry.

                                The soldier awakened and I heard a rough voice,
                                   "Santa dont cry, this life is my choice;
                                   I fight for freedom, I dont ask for more,
                                  my life is my God, my country, my Corps."

                                With that he rolled over and drifted off into sleep,
                                   I couldnt control it, I continued to weep.
                                  I watched him for hours, so silent and still,
                                I noticed he shivered from the cold nights chill.

                                  So I took off my jacket, the one made of
red,
                               And I covered this Soldier from his toes to his
head.
                                  And I put on his T-shirt of gray and black,
                             With an eagle and an Army patch embroidered on
back.

                             And although it barely fit me, I began to swell
with pride,
                          And for a shining moment, I was United States Army
deep inside.
                                I didnt want to leave him on that cold dark
night,

                                  This guardian of honor so willing to fight.
                 Then the soldier rolled over, whispered with a voice so clean
and pure,
                               "Carry on Santa, its Christmas Day, all is
secure."
	                             One look at my watch, and I knew he was right,

                               Merry Christmas my friend, and to all a good
night!

                           I wrote this poem for Christmas Eve 1993 while
assigned to US
                                  Forces Korea Lt Col Bruce Lovely, USAF
                                    (Printed in the Fort Leavenworth Lamp,
1995)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:34:19 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 
> > > They're the ones wanting jihad, not me!!
> > 
> > That is what everyone says..  I say if you want a Jyhad, then let us
attack
> > not ones who are almost like us, but those who really need it...
> > 
> > The people who play, the only game I think should be burned...  Magic: 
The
> > Gathering...
> 
> Agreed.  The ads they ran last year adverted all you need is 'a deck a
brain & a friend'.  My roomie & I instantly chanted '*PICK ONE!*'

Thank you...  I say we call for a Jyhad agains Magic:  The Gathering... 
The Brainless Morons who play the game would be better out of the gene
pool...

True story, I was at my local gaming store, with my gaming group & we have
a table reserved for weds...  Anyway this weds we all get there & a bunch
of M:TG players were at our reserved table playing M:TG..  We asked them to
move so we could play Traveller...  They would not...  We went to the
owner, a good friend of mine, he told them to move off of our table... 
They said something like, we come in once a week to play M:TG & every week
we spend about $5 each...  He told them we come in once a week to play
Traveller & we each spend about $25 a week & buy him a pizza & a six pack
of soda...  Who do you think won....

ObTrav:  Do you think there would be a game in the 3I that could lower the
intelligence of humans like M:TG & would the Hivers have created it?

> Keven

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:35:36 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Humour?, yet again... 

> From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> Subject: Re: Humour?, yet again... 
> > >>Maybe we should go back to "floridating" water again.
> > Ah, heck! Our water comes like that naturally.
> > >  My god, you put _alligators_ in the water? Does the SPCA know about
> > >  this?
> > Gators cost extra. ;->
> And they eat too much.

We could feed them M:TG players...

> Keven

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:28:48 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product 

> > For me, it was poker...  Pinochle players at ASU where, well what can I
> > say...  Not really men...  The real men played poker & drank beer...  Until
> > they were drunk & lot all their money to me...  Because I did not drink
> > when playing poker...  *weg*
> 
> Been tehre, done that.  <grin>

Yeppers, that is how I payed for my MS...

> > I know I am pure evil...  I GM Traveller...
> I resemble that remark.  I *HIGHLY* resemble that remark.  Just ask my
players.

We all do Keven...  We all do...
 
> Keven

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:41:06 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Holidays... 

> From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> Subject: Re: Holidays... 
> 
> > Happy Hanukkah everyone...
> Ain't you about a week late, dood?

Its still going on...

Plus, I had to counter-balance the "Merry Chrismas" posts...

> Keven

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:59:02 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Poetry in the Third Imperium

> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
> Subject: Poetry in the Third Imperium
> 
> As I was getting ready to e-mail Rudyard Kipling's poem "Eddi's Service"
> to some friends and family for the Christmas holiday, two questions
> occurred to me:

I hate to ask this, but could you email it to me as well?

> 1.  In the 3d Imperium, is there an "Heroic" school of poetry, similar
> to Kipling or Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade"?  If so, is it
> the dominant theme of poetry, a strong subsidiary theme, or a
> disreputable (in the eyes of the literary establishment) theme?

I would have to say yes the "Heroic" school of poetry is still around...

As for the dominant theme...  That would varry from world to world in the
3I...  On some worlds that are made up mostly of members of the military,
yes...  On some it is a strong subsidiary theme, & on others it is a
disreputable theme...  Also, I can see the Military would have it as it
dominant theme & the Emp. I think would encourage it...  Because it
stresses loyalty & honor...

> 2.  Are poets such as Rudyard Kipling more popular in the 3d Imperium
> than they are today [late 20th century Terra]?  In other words, would an
> average citizen of the 3d Imperium be more or less likely to recognize
> references to Kipling or similar poets, compared to the average citizen
> of late 20th century Terra in general, and late 20th century America in
> particular?

Again, that would be world to world...  But, also I would have to say that
members of the military would also be more likely to recognize it than a
lay person..

> |    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
> |JOLT|
> |COLA|  Visit my Web site at:

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:35:09 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Flying a grav vehicle

This is not about religion or conspiracy theories (with apologies to those
who are interested in such -- did we change the focus of the list while I
was away?)

How difficult is it to pilot a grav vehicle like a g-carrier or air raft?

This question occured to me today when I was driving home from Cincinnati.
In normal circumstances, it is relatively easy to drive a car, more
difficult to fly a plane (well, land actually), and even more difficult to
fly a helicopter. To which of these do you think piloting a grav vehicle
compares?

My instinct is that it would be more difficult than an automobile but less
difficult than an airplane, since you don't have to worry about spins,
stalls, and the like. What do you think?

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:43:54 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Vacc suit questions

1. Of what material are modern (TL 7-8) vacc suits composed of?
2. What material advances might be postulated for higher-tech vacc suits?
3. How do you seal a vacc suit after putting it on? I am assuming they do
not have normal zippers.
4. How would you seal the helmet? More importantly, how would you seal the
helmet of the oft-depicted suits of combat armor? Usually, these appear to
be more akin to motorcycle helmets than astronaut helmets (which seem to be
joined to the suit at the shoulder), and I am wondering about how feasable
this design would be on a vacc suit.

I have some of my own ideas on these questions, but I would really enjoy the
list's input on this.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:03:31 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Imperial combat armor: The helmet

I am wondering what might be in the enclosed in the black duck-tail on the
back of the Imperial combat helmet, as depicted in MegaTraveller (especially
the Rebellion sourcebook). I assume it isn't just there for decoration or
aerodynamic shape.

Well, I know it's *really* just an aesthetic decision made by the artist who
designed the look, but I'm looking for handwaves here.

My first guesses are electronics for a communicator, a computer for
environmental control and combat duties (automap, GPS, targeting aid when
linked to a smartgun, etc.), maybe some mechanical gear for life support (a
subsystem of the suits overall system), and a power supply. Any other ideas
(or criticisms of these ideas)?

I like the look of the helmet, and have no problem handwaving the visor.
IMTU, it's a solid-state sensor band using holographic technology to allow
unobstructed vision, similar to the one a certain sci fi show's engineering
officer wears. If it is damaged, the whole faceplate can be removed by
depressing the two lower-corner buttons to reveal the wearer's face, which
is still protected by a "bullet-proof" clear mask (although not so well as
when covered by several mm of superdense). This clear mask also serves as a
convenient display surface for the HUD, even when enclosed by the visor
faceplate.

But that black thingie in the back bothers me, from a logical standpoint. I
like the look, but I wanna know *why* it's there, or have a convenient lie
ready for my players.

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

<trying his best to drag the list back to Traveller>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1312
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, December 25 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1313



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re : Flying a grav vehicle
Who's in Charge ? A proposal for a utility
Re: Flying a grav vehicle
Re: Moving Against Religions
RE: HG config?
Re: Holidays... 
Stealing Plotlines
i really need your help  
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: World Builder Deluxe
Re: World Builder Deluxe
Manners (was: Mormons)
Re: Poetry in the Third Imperium
Re: Flying a grav vehicle
Re: Vacc suit questions
Re: Flying a grav vehicle
GT Shipyard
Re: Scottish Daleks?
Re: Poetry in the Third Imperium
Re: GT Shipyard
Re: Scottish Daleks?
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet
Imperial Music/Soundtracks
Re: Scottish Daleks?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:54:44 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Flying a grav vehicle

Joseph Dietrich wrote :-
(re subject header)

> My instinct is that it would be more difficult than an automobile but less
> difficult than an airplane, since you don't have to worry about spins,
> stalls, and the like. What do you think?
>
I'd readily agree with you on this one.
All the manoeuvreability that an auto has in 2D, but with the added
complication of height thrown in.

A question : how sensitive is a contragrav lifter to local mass
concentrations (e.g. an ore body or an outcropping of granite)?

Do the 'road maps' of a grav vehicle-using world have gravity gradient
contours (in addition to the usual ones so people don't fly into
mountains...)?

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:05:35
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Who's in Charge ? A proposal for a utility

We have a system for generating UPPs and subsectors, so what about a system
of generating the important people in a subsector.

Now, most Imperial citizens would have a very good chance at knowing who
their Subsector Marquis is, and many would have a better than sporting
chance at knowing important people on other worlds. Most corporate types,
for example, would either know (or be able to find out at short notice) who
the main players are for each megacorporation in their subsector. Military
types would tend to know who the Admiral-in-Charge is.

However, doing all this stuff is a huge amount of work. Therefore, lets
automate it.

The simplest way is to do an 'org chart' for a typical subsector, and use
some variant of the Twilight 2000 'card' system for determining character
traits (is that still under copyright ?).

Now, in addition to the ruler of each world, each subsector is going to
have a ranking Imperial noble, a ranking Admiral, a ranking Scout
Administrator, and a bunch of megacorporate types (if a megacorporation is
an Imperium-wide corporation, then every subsector should have at least a
token representation. But not neccessarily all megacorps should be equal -
toss in a randomised ranking while we're doing it).

Given that the Imperium is run by an intertwining bunch of families, we
then get to roll some dice to see who is either related, feuding, or both.

Now, at one fell swoop, we should set up a bunch of plot hooks ('Duke X is
related to Admiral Y, who is feuding with the LSP Subsector VP'), do a
bunch of background for players and add a new dimension to the UPPs.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 05:56:26 -0700
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

>Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:35:09 -0600
>From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
>Subject: Flying a grav vehicle
>
>This is not about religion or conspiracy theories (with apologies to those
>who are interested in such -- did we change the focus of the list while I
>was away?)
>
>How difficult is it to pilot a grav vehicle like a g-carrier or air raft?
>
>This question occured to me today when I was driving home from Cincinnati.
>In normal circumstances, it is relatively easy to drive a car, more
>difficult to fly a plane (well, land actually), and even more difficult to
>fly a helicopter. To which of these do you think piloting a grav vehicle
>compares?
>
>My instinct is that it would be more difficult than an automobile but less
>difficult than an airplane, since you don't have to worry about spins,
>stalls, and the like. What do you think?
>

Airplanes and helicopters fly pretty much the same in straight and level
flight, and aren't much harder to control than a car; In fact, events
happen much faster in traffic and there are many more objects to run into.
It's only near the ground that aircraft get squirrelly.

Being a helicopter pilot, I have always taken grav vehicles to be an
advanced version of my aircraft, without all the nightmare of conflicting
aerodynamics that actually keeps a helicopter in the air. Grav vehicles can
hover, fly sideways and backwards, and lift straight up without climbing,
all of which take them out of the airplane analogy pretty quickly. 

Difficulty-wise, I'd say that the advances in flight controls and the
relatively simple design (we presume) of grav vehicles makes them no more
difficult to pilot than driving a car with manual transmission: each hand
and foot has something different to do, but they all go together pretty
smoothly. This is different than, but equivalent to, a light airplane.

The main difference to keep in mind with all aircraft is that their motion
is relative to the air mass they fly in, not the ground. An air raft
hovering in a 30 mph crosswind is essentially flying sideways at 30 mph, no
matter what it looks like on the ground. Light grav vehicles would be
subject to bouncing around in turbulence, especially near the ground (one
good reason to still have clear landing pads); something as heavy as a grav
tank would be steady in a hurricane, if it could fly fast enough to keep up.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 06:52:53 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

At 11:49 24-12-98 -0500, Thad Coons wrote:
>   Short on plot hooks? Just mine your favorite pre-industrial
>era in history.  Use thinly disguised or slightly altered
>versions of unfamiliar events.  Take different viewpoints and you
>can use the same event as a seed for three or four different
>plots.

Indeed.  I'm currently reading *Patriots*, by David Drake - based on Ethan
Allen and his actions in Vermont before/during the American Revolution.
Other SF books have been similarly based on RW events.


James


- ----------     ----------     ----------     ----------
HEAVEN is where all the police are English, the mechanics
German, the lovers Greek, and the cooks French, and it's
all run by the Swiss.  HELL is where all the police are
German, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, and the
cooks English, and it's all run by the Greeks.
                      (from a t-shirt I bought in Greece)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 00:18:31 +1100
From: David Jaques-Watson <davidjw@pcug.org.au>
Subject: RE: HG config?

Dear Folks -

Paul asked:
>I'm still arguing with myself about the configuration of the 2500 ton boxer
>I'm working on.  What HG configuration would you assign the hull?

I concur with the others on the list - Close structure.

BTW, in HGv2, the only structure you cannot armour is Dispersed.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 08:23:51 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Holidays... 

At 23:41 24-12-98 -0700, "Legate Legion" wrote:
>I had to counter-balance the "Merry Chrismas" posts...

This came from one of the SCA mailing lists (original author unknown):

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, our best
wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low
stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the winter
solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of
the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your
choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or
traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or
secular traditions at all . . .and a fiscally successful, personally
fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the
onset of the generally accepted calendar year 1999, but not without
due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose
contributions to society have helped make America great, (not to
imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country or
is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard
to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith,
choice of computer platform, or sexual preference of the wishee.

(By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms. This
greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely
transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies
no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for
her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law, and is
revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is
warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good
tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a
subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty
is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at
the sole discretion of the wisher.)

James


- ----------     ----------     ----------     ----------
HEAVEN is where all the police are English, the mechanics
German, the lovers Greek, and the cooks French, and it's
all run by the Swiss.  HELL is where all the police are
German, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, and the
cooks English, and it's all run by the Greeks.
                      (from a t-shirt I bought in Greece)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 08:41:52 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Stealing Plotlines

> At 11:49 24-12-98 -0500, Thad Coons wrote:
> >   Short on plot hooks? Just mine your favorite pre-industrial
> >era in history.  Use thinly disguised or slightly altered
> >versions of unfamiliar events.  Take different viewpoints and you
> >can use the same event as a seed for three or four different
> >plots.
> 
> Indeed.  I'm currently reading *Patriots*, by David Drake - based on Ethan
> Allen and his actions in Vermont before/during the American Revolution.
> Other SF books have been similarly based on RW events.

Drake is good for plotlines.  For instance, for ideas on merc tickets, there's
his Hammer's Slammers stories, and one not as famous:  Forlorn Hope, which,
IMNSFBHO, is one *HELL* of a read.

Where am I stealing my ideas from these days?  Niven/Pournelle, Drake, Jack L.
Chalker, and of course, the late Admiral.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:35:27 -0200 (GMT)
From: abu islam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
Subject: i really need your help  

please visit this site to findout ?

http://www.egyptguide.net/islam/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 08:48:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Victor J. Raymond" <raymond@macalester.edu>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, Clif wrote:

> Was there such a thing as a secular American Indian?
> 
> --Clif

Yes.  Me.
 
Seriously, I _am_ a member of the Rosebud Sioux tribe, a "real live
injun!", and I just want to point out that it would be a good idea to be
*careful* when talking about other religious or ethnic groups.
 
It's kinda interesting sometimes, finding out about people's perceptions
of race and color, especially within the context of a game like Traveller.
(Heck, I've been playing Traveller since the fall of 1977...)
 
Victor Raymond

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:42:18 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: World Builder Deluxe

> >From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net>
> >Subject: World Builder Deluxe
> >
> >I am currently putting together Version 2.1 of the program and would welcome
> >input on items, suggestions or bug fixes that you would like to see
> >implemented in future versions.
> 
>

Stuart,

2 possible suggestions come to mind. One is for clarification. The
program buttons say something like print sector when it actually prints
a subsector, not a big problem. The second is to incorperate the code to
print the subsector map as well as the text description. Altogether tho
a very fine piece of work.

Mike Peters

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:05:40 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: World Builder Deluxe

Whups! Wrong program! Too much Holiday cheer last night I guess. Sorry
Stuart I was commenting on your equally excellect sector generator. 

Actually I tend to view these as two parts of a "suite" of programs.

Which brings to mine another possible addtion. Have them operate
together, i.e. a button to switch between the 2.

Again sorry for the confusion.

Mike (I need more sleep) Peters

Michael Peters wrote:
> 
> > >From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net>
> > >Subject: World Builder Deluxe
> > >
> > >I am currently putting together Version 2.1 of the program and would welcome
> > >input on items, suggestions or bug fixes that you would like to see
> > >implemented in future versions.
> >
> >
> 
> Stuart,
> 
> 2 possible suggestions come to mind. One is for clarification. The
> program buttons say something like print sector when it actually prints
> a subsector, not a big problem. The second is to incorperate the code to
> print the subsector map as well as the text description. Altogether tho
> a very fine piece of work.
> 
> Mike Peters

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:45:27 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Manners (was: Mormons)

>I can keep this up as long as you want, Yishai!
>
>- --Clif

Yeh, but will you stop as soon as we want?  

You're the person who first went past the limits. Have the decency to
apologize to those who's beliefs you've insulted (you can apologize for
the insults _without_ changing your opinions) and end the thread.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 08:58:47 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Poetry in the Third Imperium

At 11:59 pm 12/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>> Subject: Poetry in the Third Imperium
>> 
>> As I was getting ready to e-mail Rudyard Kipling's poem "Eddi's
Service"
>> to some friends and family for the Christmas holiday, two
questions
>> occurred to me:
>
>I hate to ask this, but could you email it to me as well?

	I'll go him one better: try
http://www.rit.edu/%7eexb1874/mine/kipling/kipling_ind.html for a
complete collection of Kipling's poems ...

- -- Dave Golden

   "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."
   George Bernard Shaw

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:02:49 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

At 02:35 am 12/25/98 -0600, you wrote:
>This is not about religion or conspiracy theories (with apologies to
those
>who are interested in such -- did we change the focus of the list
while I
>was away?)
>
>How difficult is it to pilot a grav vehicle like a g-carrier or air
raft?
>
>This question occured to me today when I was driving home from
Cincinnati.
>In normal circumstances, it is relatively easy to drive a car, more
>difficult to fly a plane (well, land actually), and even more
difficult to
>fly a helicopter. To which of these do you think piloting a grav
vehicle
>compares?
>
>My instinct is that it would be more difficult than an automobile
but less
>difficult than an airplane, since you don't have to worry about
spins,
>stalls, and the like. What do you think?

	Actually, by the time we can build grav vehicles, I'd expect it to
be even easier to "fly" them than it is to drive a car, due to the
automation. You wouldn't actually be controlling the grav vehicle,
you'd just tell the computer where you want to go and the built-in
control laws would figure out how to convert your desires into the
appropriate signals to the system. No need to worry about yaw, pitch,
roll, angle-of-attack, incidental aerodynamic forces and loadings.
Pull back on the stick to go up, push forward on the stick to go
down, pull it left to go left and right to go right, and press the
footpedal to go faster, or press the other one to slow down.

	That's assuming you have any "manual" control at all. Personally,
judging by the fact that 98% of the human population really can't
figure out how to safely drive in *two* dimensions, I shudder at the
thought of morons trying to deal with three ...

- -- Dave Golden

   "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."
   George Bernard Shaw

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:04:53 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Vacc suit questions

At 02:43 am 12/25/98 -0600, you wrote:
>1. Of what material are modern (TL 7-8) vacc suits composed of?

	Kevlar and various flexible plastics, IIRC.

>2. What material advances might be postulated for higher-tech vacc
suits?

	Materials with better (a) strength, (b) flexibility over a wide
range of temperatures, (c) lighter.

>3. How do you seal a vacc suit after putting it on? I am assuming they do
>not have normal zippers.

	I don't believe a zipper is actually that bad. You just have a flap
behind it that's held closed by internal pressure.

>4. How would you seal the helmet? More importantly, how would you seal the
>helmet of the oft-depicted suits of combat armor? Usually, these appear to
>be more akin to motorcycle helmets than astronaut helmets (which seem to be
>joined to the suit at the shoulder), and I am wondering about how feasable
>this design would be on a vacc suit.

	A rigid locking ring at the top of the "neck" to which your
motorcycle helmet seals is all that would be required.

- -- Dave Golden

   "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."
   George Bernard Shaw

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:46:26 -0500
From: Imaginactra <russcm@zoomnet.net>
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

At 02:35 AM 12/25/98 -0600, you wrote:
>How difficult is it to pilot a grav vehicle like a g-carrier or air raft?
>
>This question occured to me today when I was driving home from Cincinnati.
>In normal circumstances, it is relatively easy to drive a car, more
>difficult to fly a plane (well, land actually), and even more difficult to
>fly a helicopter. To which of these do you think piloting a grav vehicle
>compares?
>
>My instinct is that it would be more difficult than an automobile but less
>difficult than an airplane, since you don't have to worry about spins,
>stalls, and the like. What do you think?
>
>Ciao,
>
>Joseph R. Dietrich
>yikes@evansville.net
>
Actually, flying the vehicle would be quite easy, you just point the nose
in the direction you need to go, and let the antigrav take over. Since the
controls would be mostly automated, very little effort would be needed by
the operator.

The difficulty would be when a system fails at high altitude. With an
airframed vehicle, all you'd need to do is fall back on a little basic
glider skills. Vehicles without airframes better have good ejection systems.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:08:43 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: GT Shipyard

This is a simple application implementing the rules in GURPS Traveller. I
plan on releasing it when the licensing gets finalized (mail's slow this
season). Keep checking the BITS web site (www.bits.org.uk) for a demo
release.

Some questions while specifications are mutable:

Tech Levels
- -----------
I've included metric and american options for units. What about including
'real' Traveller TLs as well as/instead of GURPS TLs? Would this be
useful? I see four options for display:

1) Traveller TL (eg. TL12)
2) both TLs (eg. TL12/GTL11)
3) GURPS TL as "GTL" (eg. GTL12)
4) GURSP TL as "TL" (eg TL12)

I currently give the user choice between 3 & 4. Would adding 1 & 2 add any
_useful_ functionality?

Full Thrust Translations
- ------------------------
Would it be useful to print out anything other than what you've already
seen? I can think of Full Thrust ship sheets, for example. Does GURPS have
a decent ship sheet?  (Note that doing graphics is fiddly, so I'll only
add that feature is there is a real demand.)

PC Version
- ----------
My access to PCs has been drastically reduced, and the student who was
working with me is as reliable as a teenager (surprise, he's 15!).
However, I'm willing to work with a PC programmer to get this out the
door. Thanks to Chris Olsen I have Delphi 2.0, and I can use my neighbours
computer to run stuff (just can't really program there, not with their 4&5
year old kids climbing over me). The Mac source is THINK Pascal, and I
deliberately kept the code as portable as possible.

If interested, contact me and we'll work out financial arrangements
(probably a cut of sales: SJG  will get 5%, BITS has to recover costs,
we'll dicker over the remainder). 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:11:55 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Scottish Daleks?

>From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Background Music
...
>stairs.  Also, less explicitly, in "Genesis Of The  Daleks"  (Tom
>Baker's Doctor) they are capable of  crossing  war-ravaged  rough
>terrain from the Kalid's scientific bunker to the Thal domed city
>... not possible if all they had under were wheels.

  So, what _do_ Daleks have under their kilts? :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:13:08 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Poetry in the Third Imperium

>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>Subject: Poetry in the Third Imperium
...
>1.  In the 3d Imperium, is there an "Heroic" school of poetry, similar
>to Kipling or Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade"?  If so, is it
>the dominant theme of poetry, a strong subsidiary theme, or a
>disreputable (in the eyes of the literary establishment) theme?

  The Imperium seems rather too heterogeneous for a "dominant" school to
be meaningful (IMHO), but there could well be a poet-laureate type ideal
to advance State interests. There could also easily be a Court style of
poetry that would change from reign to reign with the tastes of the ruling
family (and within a reign, or various Household members favouring different
arts/artists/etc.).

>2.  Are poets such as Rudyard Kipling more popular in the 3d Imperium
>than they are today [late 20th century Terra]?  In other words, would an
>average citizen of the 3d Imperium be more or less likely to recognize
>references to Kipling or similar poets, compared to the average citizen
>of late 20th century Terra in general, and late 20th century America in
>particular?

  Depends on whether or not they're a Solomani sympathizer? But seriously,
the Party likely relies heavily on the later modern period (pre-I.W.) for
propaganda purposes, not least because the pols aren't real likely to be
terribly familiar with much else.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:17:34 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: GT Shipyard

Good feature to add: the ability to define new module types, at least as far as being
able to account for mass and cost.

I can be fairly certain that at least one of the upcoming G:T sourcebooks will include
some module types that weren't in the core rules.

Jon F. Zeigler
JFZeigler@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:47:21 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Scottish Daleks?

Steven Hudson wrote:
> 
> >From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
> >Subject: Re: Background Music
> ...
> >stairs.  Also, less explicitly, in "Genesis Of The  Daleks"  (Tom
> >Baker's Doctor) they are capable of  crossing  war-ravaged  rough
> >terrain from the Kalid's scientific bunker to the Thal domed city
> >... not possible if all they had under were wheels.
> 
>   So, what _do_ Daleks have under their kilts? :)

Only what they were created with....  ;-)

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:16:07 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

...
>From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
>Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions
>
>Was there such a thing as a secular American Indian?

  No idea, but if they were a settled community and advanced in adopting
European trappings then they might very well have been largely Christianized
by that time. They'd almost certainly encountered RC priests, and probably
Protestant missionaries as well, and the French and Spanish had been making
conversions in the New World for centuries.

 i.e., I don't know :)  Was there genuinely such a thing as a secular
anything in the Americas in 1830?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:33:13 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet

>From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
>Subject: Imperial combat armor: The helmet
...
>But that black thingie in the back bothers me, from a logical standpoint. I
>like the look, but I wanna know *why* it's there, or have a convenient lie
>ready for my players.

 1) Originally, it was red :) - see the box art for the Grenadier figs.
 2) Assume it's a housing for a non-vital but bulky accessory (?).
 3) It's clearly (on the mini's, anyway, IMO) detachable, and quite
possibly not a 3-D solid (can't be sure due to limits with blocking off
in the casting process). It could very simply be a splinter shield, and
possibly intended mainly to prevent contact CBM's hitting the back of
the neck, which is a large flexible sleeve (armoured, but still...).

  I'd go with #3, but I'd like to hear from #2 as well.

  FWIW, #5852 TNE Coalition Marines/BD doesn't have the back extension,
so it may very well be an armour design choice of dubious necessity.

  BTW, RAFM's "Silent Death" mini's #0650 "Javelin" and #0653 "Praying Mantis"
are also the old TNE #5822 "Darrian Patrol Cruiser" and #5820 "RQS Inspection
Launch", respectively, and are thus still available retail.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 19:03:26 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Imperial Music/Soundtracks

I think I've found what Emperors - and possibly other nobles of
Solomani heritage - will use as their processional.

Rimsky-Korsakov's _Mlada:_Procession_of_the_Nobles_.  It just
seems so _right_.

It'd also make great soundtrack music for when your PCs are
present in person for a noble's processional.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:57:56 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Scottish Daleks?

At 11:47 AM 12/25/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Steven Hudson wrote:
>> 
>> >From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
>> >Subject: Re: Background Music
>> ...
>> >stairs.  Also, less explicitly, in "Genesis Of The  Daleks"  (Tom
>> >Baker's Doctor) they are capable of  crossing  war-ravaged  rough
>> >terrain from the Kalid's scientific bunker to the Thal domed city
>> >... not possible if all they had under were wheels.
>> 
>>   So, what _do_ Daleks have under their kilts? :)
>
>Only what they were created with....  ;-)
>
>-- 
>------
>|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
>|JOLT|
>|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
>|    |
>------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/
>

A later episode, when Sylvestor McCoy was the Doctor, showed a limited
'lift' ability when faced with stairs, somewhat like a thruster
plate/contra-gravity effect,which allowed the Dalek to hop up stairs.

Garry

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1313
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 26 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1314



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:  LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
To Jesse:  the Rest Ignore
Merry Christmas to all! *<:)
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re : Flying a grav vehicle
Re: GT Shipyard
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet
Re: A Church Caves In to Govt.
Re: High Guard its Product
Re: A Church Caves In to Govt.
Re: Mostly Maintainence of Right Action
Re: Holidays...
Re: Mormons
Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet
Thoughts on Starports
To Jeff Zeitlin
A Baby's Misery  
Flying a grav vehicle
re:  Imperial combat armor: The helmet
TML flamefest?
Re: GT Shipyard
Re: GURPS rules
Happy holidays.
Re: Manners (was: Mormons)
Re: To Jesse:  the Rest Ignore

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:00:41 -0600
From: David Smart <warlock@imagin.net>
Subject: Re:  LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

Mike Wittek posted:
>
> All,
> I am looking for what is considered the best window character generation
> program on the Net. I would prefer T4 generation rules, but I am looking
> for them all. Any help would be appreciated.

I have two freeware MT chargen programs for Windows.
The first, called "MegaTraveller GM Aid", was developed
by Dennis G. Landsem in 1992. The second, called
"MegaTraveller Character Generator", was developed by
A.S. Lilly, also in 1992.

I have the original .zip file for the first but you
may need to contact Andy for the second. His software
does state that it was for alpha-testing only and was
not to be distributed with his say-so.
(Yo, Andy, you out there?)

Dennis' program forces some random rolls, yet includes
chargen from the 2 DGP alien modules. Andy's allows you
to manipulate every single roll but you can't save the
character.

- -- 
tc tm+ tn t4 tg ru ge 3i c+ jt- au st+ ls pi ta he+
kk+ hi+ as va dr+ ith- vi ne so- zh+ vi da+ sy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 15:02:51 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: To Jesse:  the Rest Ignore

>Our Church does not celebrate Christmas.

Then who decorates Temple Square come Christmas time?  Are you saying the
members go hog wild and decorate Temple Square without the First
Presidency's approval when they need a Temple Recommend to get in, in the
first place?

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:10:56 -0800
From: Mike Wittek <mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com>
Subject: Merry Christmas to all! *<:)

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body text="#CC0000" bgcolor="#009900" link="#FFFF00" vlink="#80FF80" alink="#00FF40">

<center><font face="BlackChancery"><font size=+4>Merry Christmas</font></font>
<br><font face="BlackChancery"><font size=+4>&amp;</font></font>
<br><font face="BlackChancery"><font size=+4>Happy New Year!</font></font></center>

<p>--
<br>Mike Wittek | Vacaville, California
<br><A HREF="mailto:mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com">mailto:mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com</A> | <A HREF="http://www.thelair.cnchost.com">http://www.thelair.cnchost.com</A>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Democracy isn't just the best form of government;
It's the only one even remotely worth a damn. Only democracy guarantees
that people get what they deserve."&nbsp;&nbsp; --Zena Marley
<br>&nbsp;
</body>
</html>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 15:20:39 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

>On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, Clif wrote:
>
>> Was there such a thing as a secular American Indian?
>>
>> --Clif
>
>Yes.  Me.

Please notice that I used the word "was."  Sigghhhh.  My question was
whether atheistic, secular American Indians existed at that time.  If not,
then ALL actions against the American Indians of that time would have to be
considered as being "religious persecution", since their religion was so
much a part of their culture.
>
>Seriously, I _am_ a member of the Rosebud Sioux tribe, a "real live
>injun!", and I just want to point out that it would be a good idea to be
>*careful* when talking about other religious or ethnic groups.

Right, because we live in a country where a person has Freedom of Speech,
correct?
>
- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:26:33 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re : Flying a grav vehicle

>From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
>Subject: Re : Flying a grav vehicle
...
>A question : how sensitive is a contragrav lifter to local mass
>concentrations (e.g. an ore body or an outcropping of granite)?

  It shouldn't be anywhere near significant. If the technology is a
_repulsor_ of some sort, however, then both the density (and rigidity)
of the surface and distance from it could become issues. But for CT
grav modules it shouldn't be an issue, AFAIK.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:26:45 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: GT Shipyard

>From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
>Subject: GT Shipyard
...
>1) Traveller TL (eg. TL12)
>2) both TLs (eg. TL12/GTL11)
>3) GURPS TL as "GTL" (eg. GTL12)
>4) GURSP TL as "TL" (eg TL12)
>
>I currently give the user choice between 3 & 4. Would adding 1 & 2 add any
>_useful_ functionality?

  Yes - some of us are used to thinking in Trav terms. One way to help is
to specify TTL in hexidec, and GTL in straight decimal notation. Anyone who
doesn't grok "TL E" clearly is below the appropriate security clearance...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:27:17 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

>From: "Victor J. Raymond" <raymond@macalester.edu>
>Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions
...
>> Was there such a thing as a secular American Indian?
...
>Yes.  Me.

 Aren't you awfully, well, how to put this, active? For a bi-centenarian,
that is?        :>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 15:27:32 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet

It appears to make the helmet aerodynamic, like a racing cyclists helmet.

Is there any reason a helmet like this would NEED to be aerodynamic?

Are there convertible high-speed transports or do any of these forces have
anything like scout cycles of the grav variety?

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:22:13 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt.

In a message dated 12/24/98 7:22:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Vanquer@email.msn.com writes:

<<  If you've
 got no vested interest in Mormonism one way or the other, then why are
 you trying to flame it ? >>

probably for one of two reasons. 1) He's just trying to yank your chain, or 2)
the worst critics tend to be "lapsed adherents" of their own religions. I see
that a lot in here in the states, with Catholics and Jews. I personally never
understood this need to air your own religion's dirty laundary in public....

Ob: Traveller. Pick a religion. Have a PC involve the party in the religion's
political and/or doctrinal schisms...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:27:36 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

At 10:25 PM 23/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 12/23/98 5:51:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca writes:
>
><<  The Tigress is far from indestructible...  I've GM'd one fleet
> action where *3* were incinerated.  It was, well, icky.... >>
>
>Do you have a post narrative...?
>

        Unfortunately, no...  this was years ago...  The short version was
that it was a TCS game and somebody's fleet got caught doing frontier
refueling...   Side A got caught completely off guard, as side B's vessels
approached the GG in its RADAR shadow, and engaged Side A from essentially
an ambush.  The vessels in the High Guard position (about 30% of the total
assets) had to fight a point-blank brawl with 100% of Side B's forces;  the
ships refueling were automatically declared "in reserve".
        I distinctly remember that one issue was that Side B's three
commanders were rolling phenomenally well on damage results...  more "2"'s
for damage and "12"'s for "to-hit" than any of us had seen.  The other was
that Side B was using a Battle-Rider patterned after the Star Fleet Battles
"Mauler"....  Spinal Z meson, USP 6  Agility, 6g's and USP 15 armor.  He had
dozens of the damn things, and coupled with several hundred fighters firing
as USP 9 nuclear missle batteries, simply trashed the smaller force in the
High Guard position.
        Of course, then he "broke through" Side A's line and was able to
fire unanswered upon the ships coming out of the gas giant....  I *think*
one Tigress was actually lost due to a drive hit that prevented her from
escaping the gravity well.
        Anyway, this was 10 years ago or so.  As I say, I don't have any
more details than that in what little memory I have.

        Happy Holidays!
        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:23:55 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt.

In a message dated 12/24/98 7:37:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< I will say *ONCE* for the record, and will post no more on this subject,
that I do *NOT* appreciate seeing my personal religious beliefs slandered in
the manner that Clif has done.  How he would react were someone to slander his
is of course up to him, and I refuse to engage in that discussion as well. >

I agree....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:28:23 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mostly Maintainence of Right Action

In a message dated 12/24/98 8:29:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, ianw@orac.net.au
writes:

<< Some prominent lawyers are arguing against codifying rights, as once you
 codify something you leave gaps for smart lawyers to exploit.
  >>

Of course Australian gun owners probably wish they had a second ammendment
(right to bear arms...) in this bill of rights...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:32:53 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Holidays...

In a message dated 12/24/98 8:55:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,
legate@futureone.com writes:

<< Happy Hanukkah everyone...
  >>

Thank you; Yom Tov ! Merry Christmas to all (and happy Kwanza, and a
peaceful(?; I hope I got the salutation right...)) Ramadan...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:34:06 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mormons

In a message dated 12/24/98 8:58:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
brclif@digital.net writes:

<< I can keep this up as long as you want, Yishai! >>

Please don't....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 15:52:21 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet

do you know about the grav bike or the grav belt.. arodynamics may help
either of these modes of transportation.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Clif <brclif@digital.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, December 25, 1998 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet


>It appears to make the helmet aerodynamic, like a racing cyclists helmet.
>
>Is there any reason a helmet like this would NEED to be aerodynamic?
>
>Are there convertible high-speed transports or do any of these forces have
>anything like scout cycles of the grav variety?
>
>--Clif
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:43:20
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Thoughts on Starports

A lot of this is repeats on what is already out there. I'm thinking of this
from a PoV of a campaign based around my 'Small Scale Colonisation in
Traveller' rules, so I'll concentrate on the lower half of starports.

Canon Basics :

Class E starports have no fuel and no maintainence. Basically, a marked
landing zone, and maybe a couple of buildings.

Class D starports have rudimentary facilities, navigation satellites,
unrefined fuel and some surface-orbit shuttles.

Class C starports have decent facilities, some orbital component, refined
fuel available and can maintain non-starships.

Actual sizes :

Now, a starport is built to deal with a particular pop code - a type D
starport in a system with 2000 people is going to look a lot different to a
type D starport on a world with a billion people.

A starport's capital cost is thus based on class and population.

Defenses :

E starports have no defenses. 

D starports would have primitive defenses - a couple of ground-based
missile racks, perhaps a ground-based point-defense laser, perhaps a
handful of third-line fighters.

C starports would have more extensive defenses, similar to those at a D
starport but more extensive, higher quality and including an orbital
component.

It is possible that local Imperial commanders would assign a particular
world Imperial defense assets - the world may not own any meaningful
defenses, but an Imperial escort carrier and a company of Imperial Marines
may be temporarily assigned to the world on a training mission. Some
training missions may last decades (nasty surprise for ground raiding
pirates huh ... 'Whats that Trepida doing here ???').

Personell :

A starport has an Administrator, who is in charge. Starports may be
Imperial, Corporate or Locally controlled. Canon starports are always
Imperial, but private facilities are mentioned (eg Hard Times).

Imperial Administrators will typically be nobles - a Knight for a small
and/or primitive facility, working up the noble scale as the starport/fief
gets larger or more developed.

Corporate Administrators would be rank O3 for a small facility, going up to
rank O6 for a critical facility.

Local Administrators would usually be rank O4-O7, and the exact branch
would depend on the world ( Bureaucrat, Diplomat, local military could all
be appropriate).

Sometimes, the Administrator contracts the actual running of the facility
out to third parties, allowing them to spend their time on other matters.

Plot Hooks :

Obviously, players could be maneuvered into running a small starport out on
the frontier (Bowman Belt is a good one IMO). 

Military-inclined players could be kept interested by pirate raids and
such, while more socially inclined players could be kept busy by liason
with locals and visiting traders (getting someone to put the world on a
regular route should be a priority).

Smuggling and corruption could raise nice moral dilemnas, and if the
players are the authorities, then they get to deal with the horseplay of
just-landed crews ... they *are* the Imperial Authorities after all ...

Merchants could begin to trade on their own account with visiting traders.

Other adventuring opportunities include surveying the rest of the system,
or providing Local Assistance when the Navy turns up with a problem.

Heck, set it just before the FFW breaks out, and have them cut off, and all
alone ...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:56:03 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: To Jeff Zeitlin

Jeff,

A while back you were discussing placing your e-zine on one of the free
sites. I just looked in at a page on Zoom.com. They are offering 11 mb
for free, and the page I looked at had a link but no apparent pop-ups or
watermarks. Don't know much more about it, but it might be one area to
check out.

Sorry to waste list bw but I don't have a personal address.

Mike Peters

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 03:06:29 -0200 (GMT)
From: issam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
Subject: A Baby's Misery  

A Baby's Misery

Praise is due to Allah that can not thank anybody on misery save He alone My
misery began from the birth of my child Islam who suffered from limbs
paralysis.

He was born on 23-8-1987 , and was admitted to Mansoura University  lospita
at the day of birth and stayed there for treatment, then he got out with the
same disease without any progrcss.
Also I kept going to professors of brain and nerves in Cairo with no
progress then , I travoled to Saudi Arabia to work and i was responsible for
his care and his treatment with no one's help, that he has sonseless
urination and stool.And I brought him the diapers of

TENA ART 71 01 0036 PCS/ST   I TENA MADE IN SWEDEN SMALL 50-80 OR BIGER
But The Company was closed and I returned back to Egypt and this was God's
will.

Now, I am in a misery that there is diapers,and  sometimes I found it in
fee- area in Port- Said in high costs as
I need more than 120 diapers per month
I have made a chair for him when I was in Saudia Arabia, but now it doesn't
work and he needs another special one and diapcrs.
I hope that someone can help me by having a special chair or diapers or
treating him in a special centre.
Thanks for every body who can help in making my family smiles again.


The child's father
Esam  El-Dean Mostafa Orabi
egypt  domyatt
Calling from abroad :002-057-660119
E-mail  aljohar@starnet.com.eg


- ---------------------------------------
EL BATOUTY CENTER
    RHEUMATOLOGY
    PHYSIOTHERAPY
&  COMPUTERISED EMG
         PROF.DR
M.FATHY EL BATOUTY


Eslam Esam El Din Mostafa is 11 years old child suffering from severe
spastic type of cp with

flexion spasm of both lower limbs , frequent attacks of scissors and fecal &
urinary incontinence .

Ambulation aid is recommended for him in the form of special type of
electric wheel chair individually

built to suit his case with further training of the child to driver his
chair .

The following center is recommended to consult the case and to manufacture
the chair .

the Nuffield Orthopaedic Center .
Mary Marlborough Lodge .
Oxford , UK

- ----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:07:25 -0800
From: bmac@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Flying a grav vehicle

Joseph, in a probably-futile attempt to get this list back on topic,
wrote
>How difficult is it to pilot a grav vehicle like a g-carrier or air raft?
Pretty easy. Computerized controls (which is what you pay all that
money for in FFS grav vehicles) of TL9+ should ensure that the grav
vehicle is essentially perfectly stable; if you point it in a direction
and let go of the controls it will keep going straight (probably automatically
leveling out), as opposed to aircraft or even cars, which are at least
slightly unstable. The hard part is probably maintaing adequate
awareness of your environment - like other vehicles - especially at
high speeds; fast (200 km/h+) grav vehicles may require special
licensing and/or nav equipment and sensors.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:10:18 -0800
From: bmac@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re:  Imperial combat armor: The helmet

>I am wondering what might be in the enclosed in the black duck-tail on the
>back of the Imperial combat helmet

Another possibility would be electronics/computer for the armours sensor
array. For example, command or recon suits could have a PEMS array with
dispersed elements on the armour - at the hands and feet - that with a good
computer could synthesize a view using the baseline provided by the span of
the wearer's arms, giving resolution a couple of hundred times better than
the normal eye andtwenty times better than the best binoculars.
Even normal suits probably use the whole visor as a PEMS array, which needs
at least a little computer power to process.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:24:06 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: TML flamefest?

...
>Please note that I have snipped all references to previous posts in this
>thread! It appears that the typical TML flamefest is about to rear it's

  A flamefest? - how convenient!  Steam engines, anyone?

  Striker dosn't cover external combustion power plants, but the values
below might be a reasonable starting point:

Striker:
  TL    Description            Output  Weight   Price   Fuel
  4?    early steam             0.05?   2.0      500     800? 
  5?    steam                   0.10?   2.0      500     600?   
  6?    steam turbine           0.15?   2.0     2000     400?
  5     Internal combustion     0.15    1.0     1000     900   
  6     Improved I.C.           0.25    1.0     2000     500
  7     Gas turbine             0.40    1.0     5000     500
  8     MHD turbine             0.60    1.0    10000     300

  Using the above (hypothetical stats indicated with a question mark)
there's a clear use at TL 5 for a fuel efficient EC unit (although the
output will be too low for a practical tank. By TL 6 the utility in
ground vehicles is becoming truly marginal.

...
>the proper forum to discuss the merits, or, possible lack thereof, of
>ANY belief system! ( Unless it's from 101 Religions).

  And what about you, sir? Are you perhaps merely dissembling to avoid
an exploration of Traveller Classic-ness? Are your deckplans compatible
with CT? Hmm, are they?                                                    :)

The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 23:31:32 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: GT Shipyard

JFZeigler@aol.com writes:
>Good feature to add: the ability to define new module types, at least as
>far
>as being
>able to account for mass and cost.
>
>I can be fairly certain that at least one of the upcoming G:T sourcebooks
>will
>include

GT Shipyard already has that capability (guess I should have mentioned
it). Dom Mooney gets the pint for suggesting it first.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 23:51:12 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS rules

rodmanb@mindspring.com said:

><De-lurk mode off>
>I've played CT and MT off an on for 13 years now.  Being the old curmudgeon
>that I am, I'm a little apprehensive about the new GURPS version.  I
>should've prefaced that statement with the fact that I haven't read the new
>GURPS version.   Naturally, I take it it follows the GURPS system rules?  I
>was wondering what you thought about it.


I like GURPS, and I like Traveller. The combination of the two is excellent
on most levels, but tends towards annoyance on some other levels.

Broadly, the G:T book is well put together and generally attractive. The
interior art is, for the most part decent, ranging from workmanlike to
rather good. The layout is really good, and the tone of the book is
excellent. There are insights from Loren punctuating the text that explain
why things are the way they are in the Traveller universe. Many of these
comments go on to explain what the ramifications of changing certain basic
assumptions in the OTU are.

As far as rules go, it's about as good a translation as you could hope for.
The basic flavor of Traveller has been retained, at least in my opinion.

My only problems come down to certain niggling details, it appears that the
costs of various drugs have been left out. Further, a rudimentary version of
the computer rules was left out, making the descriptions of various computer
programs confusing unless you already own a GURPS book with the computer
rules inside.

All in all, I am personally pleased with GURPS: Traveller.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 00:06:07 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Happy holidays.

Happy holidays everybody, I hope they were everything each and every one of
you hoped for.

Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:23:16 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Manners (was: Mormons)

> From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
> Subject: Manners (was: Mormons)
> 
> >I can keep this up as long as you want, Yishai!
> >
> >- --Clif
> 
> Yeh, but will you stop as soon as we want?  

Hear, hear...

> You're the person who first went past the limits. Have the decency to
> apologize to those who's beliefs you've insulted (you can apologize for
> the insults _without_ changing your opinions) and end the thread.

I think we do have limits on what we can say...  Politics & religion are
two of them...  As a jew (& Clif if you want to flame me for supporting the
Mormons, please do it off list), I have to say that I support the Mormons
in their belief structure...  I also have to say that I support Islam,
Christos, Wicca, & all other religions...  They have a place in this world,
& no one should have the right to attack another for what they belive...  I
call for all of the members of the TML to come together at this special
time of year & say, with one voice, "I love you..." & by saying that I must
say to this list, I love you all...  You are friends of mine...

As to politics, well you all know how I feel about that...

I am sorry, if I did not post something related directly to Traveller, but
let us understand that we are also people here...

Legate Legion, Jew & Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:35:47 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: To Jesse:  the Rest Ignore

> From: Clif <brclif@digital.net>
> Subject: To Jesse:  the Rest Ignore
>
> >Our Church does not celebrate Christmas.
> 
> Then who decorates Temple Square come Christmas time?  Are you saying the
> members go hog wild and decorate Temple Square without the First
> Presidency's approval when they need a Temple Recommend to get in, in the
> first place?

Hey is the list admin out there?  If so, please boot Clif off the TML... 
He is using the list to attack people, again...  Thank you...

> --Clif

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist & Old Gaming Fart
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"He must have swum up from the shallow end of the gene pool." - Guess
who... *weg*

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1314
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 26 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1315



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Holidays...
Re: A Church Caves In to Govt.
Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Re: Moving Against Religions
Steam engines in striker
Re: Expulsion of Clif
Re: Expulsion of Clif
Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: TML flamefest?
Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 
Re : TML Flamefest (actually Striker steam plants)
Terrorists
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 
Re: Transporter
"Knight Riding" Music from Excalibur...
M:IW - The Terran Free Traders
Re: Moving Against Religions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:40:13 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Holidays...

> From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Holidays...
> 
> << Happy Hanukkah everyone...
>   >>
> 
> Thank you; Yom Tov ! Merry Christmas to all (and happy Kwanza, and a
> peaceful(?; I hope I got the salutation right...)) Ramadan...

You are welcome, friend...  I say we all go out for a beer together on New
Years Eve...  I know we cannot really be together, but how about we all
have a beer (real, root, or ginger) at 11:55 pm your local time & toast the
members of the TML with it?

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:43:51 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt.

> From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
> Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt.
> 
> << I will say *ONCE* for the record, and will post no more on this
subject,
> that I do *NOT* appreciate seeing my personal religious beliefs slandered
in
> the manner that Clif has done.  How he would react were someone to
slander his
> is of course up to him, and I refuse to engage in that discussion as
well. >
> 
> I agree....

Same here...  I come here to the TML to engage in an intelligent debate
about Traveller, & other SF subjects...  Not be attacked by a narrow minded
little git like Clif...  I know I am a jew, but Mormons & jews have many
things in common & we support each other...  Next door to me lives a Mormon
Family, & they & I have shared many good times, just like everyone where I
lived have shared good times, as well as bad times...  It sounds as if Clif
wants us to go back to the way it was in the bad old days...  I do not...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:33:21 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

> From: David Smart <warlock@imagin.net>
> Subject: Re:  LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
> > All,
> > I am looking for what is considered the best window character
generation
> > program on the Net. I would prefer T4 generation rules, but I am
looking
> > for them all. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> I have two freeware MT chargen programs for Windows.
> The first, called "MegaTraveller GM Aid", was developed
> by Dennis G. Landsem in 1992. The second, called
> "MegaTraveller Character Generator", was developed by
> A.S. Lilly, also in 1992.
> 
> I have the original .zip file for the first but you
> may need to contact Andy for the second. His software
> does state that it was for alpha-testing only and was
> not to be distributed with his say-so.
> (Yo, Andy, you out there?)

Could you send me the .zip file for the first, please?  Thank you in
advance...

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:30:17 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

> From: Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca>
> Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions
> 
> >Was there such a thing as a secular American Indian?
> 
>   No idea, but if they were a settled community and advanced in adopting
> European trappings then they might very well have been largely Christianized
> by that time. They'd almost certainly encountered RC priests, and probably
> Protestant missionaries as well, and the French and Spanish had been making
> conversions in the New World for centuries.

What about the Jewish Traders that would live in Penache(sp) communities? 
They also have influanced them as well...  Linguists are finding some words
in Penache Languages that may have come from Hebrew & Yiddish...  So the RC
& Protestants were not the only ones there...  *weg*

>  i.e., I don't know :)  Was there genuinely such a thing as a secular
> anything in the Americas in 1830?

Very few... 

>         Steven Hudson

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:59:53 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Steam engines in striker

Date sent:      	Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:24:06 -0800
From:           	shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)

>  A flamefest? - how convenient!  Steam engines, anyone?

>  Striker dosn't cover external combustion power plants, but the values
>below might be a reasonable starting point:

>Striker:
>  TL    Description            Output  Weight   Price   Fuel
>  4?    early steam             0.05?   2.0      500     800? 
>  5?    steam                   0.10?   2.0      500     600?   
>  6?    steam turbine           0.15?   2.0     2000     400?
>  5     Internal combustion     0.15    1.0     1000     900   
>  6     Improved I.C.           0.25    1.0     2000     500
>  7     Gas turbine             0.40    1.0     5000     500
>  8     MHD turbine             0.60    1.0    10000     300

I'd suggest early steam at TL 3, VTE (vertical triple expansion) steam at early 
TL 4, Steam turbine to TL 4, Geared turbine at late TL 4, Small Water Tube at 
early TL 5 and improved geared turbine at TL 5

                TL  Output Weight   Price  Fuel
Early Steam      3   0.05    5.0     500    500
VTE Steam        4   0.10    2.0     400    300
Turbine          4   0.15   25.0     500    700
Geared Turbine   4   0.20   50.0     600    500
VTE Steam        5   0.15    1.0     400    250
SWT Turbine      5   0.25   15.0     600    400
Geared Turbine   5   0.30   35.0     700    400

If you want to get truely technical, VTE is more fuel efficent than turbines, but 
only at low speeds (there's a bump at around 15 knots were the two switch).

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:24:08
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Expulsion of Clif

>From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
>Subject: Re: To Jesse:  the Rest Ignore
>
>
>Hey is the list admin out there?  If so, please boot Clif off the TML... 
>He is using the list to attack people, again...  Thank you...

Seconded. He has done more in days to upset people than Leroy managed in
months.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 00:13:46 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Expulsion of Clif

> From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Expulsion of Clif
> 
> >Hey is the list admin out there?  If so, please boot Clif off the TML...

> >He is using the list to attack people, again...  Thank you...
> Seconded. He has done more in days to upset people than Leroy managed in
> months.

Thank you...  I am not a wrathful man, but if Clif wants to attack others,
he should not do it on the TML, but via private mail...

> Ian Whitchurch

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 00:20:13 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 

> From: Jesse LaBranche <Vanquer@email.msn.com>
> Subject: Re: A Church Caves In to Govt. 
> 
> >Oh, as if "no one" ever twists the truth in favor of Mormonism.  Plain
fact
> >of the matter is that I am still and official member on the books, in
> >full-standing, so my word concerning Mormonism has at least as much
weight,
> >if not more, since I have no vested interest in Mormonism one way or the
> >other.
> >--Clif
> 
> Yes, I suppose that the truth is twisted in favor on occassion. However,
it
> is quite apparent that nobody is doing so on this list at present. If
you've
> got no vested interest in Mormonism one way or the other, then why are
> you trying to flame it ?
> 
> Jesse.

Jesse, I am going to take a wild guess here, but you are a Mormon, are you
not...  If I am wrong, well then, I am sorry...  But, you will have to
forgive Clif, for he knows not what he does...  Or is simpler terms, he is
swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 00:28:53 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

> From: Jesse LaBranche <Vanquer@email.msn.com>
> Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions
> 
> >But the official position of the church was for Mormons to obey the law
of
> >the Nazi land.
> 
> That's right. Adherance to the law, and agreement with that law are not
the
> same thing. In obeying those laws, the church was allowed to survive
there,
> and was able to do much more good than was possible by fighting those
> laws, or abandoning the area.

In other words, "Give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's, & give unto God what is
God's"?  (I say Sergeant York today, btw, great movie)?

> >This is brought out in a very balanced series of articles in an Awake!
> >magazine by Jehovah's Witnesses.  After discovering the the J.W.'s in
Utah
> >had little official literature exposing or combatting Mormon Doctrine (a
> >rather suspicious thing, if you think about it) the Watchtower came out
> with
> >one issue devoted to Mormonism.
> >--Clif
> 
> Imagine that. Jehovah's Witnesses discovered that they did not have much
> in the way of propaganda to turn people against the church and its doctrine,
> so they dug up what mud they could find, and made up what they couldn't.

Sounds about right to me...  It seems when you have a decent, honorable
religion (not that I know that much about Mormonism, I am just going by the
Mormons that I know personally & they are decent, honorable people),
everyone wants to tear it down.  They go on about the fact that Mormons
keep, I think, two years supply of food handy as something evil.

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 02:21:13 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: TML flamefest?

Weeeeellll, uh.., maybe. I design to the CT spec of 1 square = 1.5
meters. I've been using the FFS2 system ( Andy's Spread sheet is so much
faster than pen and paper) so some equipment is different than CT. From
my point of veiw CT was actuall easier to design deck plans for.
Sensors, for example, seem to require a lot more space than most CT
plans. So I guess, after all of this rambling I have to say, I don't
know. The plans can be used in CT games (a lot of MOTU is CT based) but
do they really conform? Don't know and don't care, I'm an agnostic
boardering on heretic and they work for me!

Mike Peters

Steven Hudson wrote:

>   And what about you, sir? Are you perhaps merely dissembling to avoid
> an exploration of Traveller Classic-ness? Are your deckplans compatible
> with CT? Hmm, are they?                                                    :)
> 
> The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 02:24:50 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

Legate Legion wrote:
>
> > I have the original .zip file for the first but you
> > may need to contact Andy for the second. His software
> > does state that it was for alpha-testing only and was
> > not to be distributed with his say-so.
> > (Yo, Andy, you out there?)
> 
> Could you send me the .zip file for the first, please?  Thank you in
> advance...
> 

Me too, me too, me too!

Mike Peters
Travelleri@Home.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 02:40:27 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 

> Jesse, I am going to take a wild guess here, but you are a Mormon, are you
> not...  If I am wrong, well then, I am sorry...  But, you will have to
> forgive Clif, for he knows not what he does...  Or is simpler terms, he is
> swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool...

Problem with the gene pool is, there ain't no life guards.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:22:11 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : TML Flamefest (actually Striker steam plants)

The following information may be of interest :-

Chemical Power Plants (part table)
Tech Type                     MinOut  Vol Mass Fuel Rate/Type Cost
3    Primitive E.C.           0.025   10   40  1.68/4.05 C/W  0.005
4    External Combustion      0.030    5   10  0.84/2.03 C/W  0.003
4    Primitive I.C.           0.013    4    4  0.3  HCD       0.004
5    Advanced E.C.            0.300   3.3 6.7  0.63/1.52 C/W  0.007
5    External Comb. Turbine   0.35    2.9 5.7  0.42/1.02 C/W  0.009

MinOut - Minimum MW, volume m3/MW, mass t/MW, fuel rate m3/MW/h,
cost MCr/MW.

Fuels :-
Coal (C) has energy content of 30MJ/kg and density 1.4kg/L.
Wood (W) (arbitrary) 20MJ/kg and density 0.9kg/L.
HCD - hydrocarbon distillate density 0.9kg/L, 43MJ/kg
HGHCD - high grade HCD density 0.9kg/L, 40MJ/kg

External combustion plants - steam, all types.
TL 5 plants can burn liquid fuels : use wood fuel rate X 0.47 for HCDs.

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:46:26 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Terrorists

There are certain actions I can't identify with, even when trying to be
impartial as a referee.

Terrorists are always bad guys to me, no matter what their cause.

While I concede that there is a fine line between a patriotic freedom
fighter with no other options and a murdering terrorist, some actions are
very definitely on the wrong side of that line. Thus terrorists get lumped
in with users of biotoxins,  racist/"ethnic cleansers" and rapists as "very
definitely the bad guys". If my players wanted to do these kind of things
I'd want a really interesting reason and a really fascinating moral
situation to explore. And even then I think I'd have trouble restraining
the "call in the security forces and hose them with hot lead" reflex. Which
may refer to the characters or the players.

Now, I have used the "do we fire on this crowd of mainly innocent
protesters" dilemma a few times, or the "so-called 'dangerous criminal' on
the run from the local police state.... help or hinder him?" ideas  and had
a good time with them, but terrorism is for the bad guys. Who deserve
whatever they get.... 

Guerrillas are a different can of worms. I have my own idea of what the
difference is - guerrillas are irregular troops fighting a "dirty war".
They may well use bombs and even attack "government institutions" like the
post office and the income tax buildings, but once you start walking into
pubs and executing random drinkers, or bombing shopping malls then you're
no longer a soldier, you're a murderer. The moral issue is quite clear. I
don't think I'd be comfortable with PCs who took this route, and I'd
certainly be merciless in determining the security forces' response.

One could probably link this in with the "nuke Hiroshima/Firebomb Dresden"
argument, but.... NOT AGAIN, PLEASE!!!!!

Just some random thoughts on this happy day....

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 04:11:15 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 

> > Jesse, I am going to take a wild guess here, but you are a Mormon, are you
> > not...  If I am wrong, well then, I am sorry...  But, you will have to
> > forgive Clif, for he knows not what he does...  Or is simpler terms, he is
> > swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool...
> 
> Problem with the gene pool is, there ain't no life guards.

This is true...  Or else Clif would not have been born...  *weg*

Well that is inbreeding for you...

ObTrav:  On those worlds of under one million people, how do you think they
keep the gene pool viable?  I mean do they encourage navy & marine corps
personal to come by & well, you know...  Or, do they send thier children
off world?  Just wondering...

> Keven

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 08:00:31 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 

> ObTrav:  On those worlds of under one million people, how do you think they
> keep the gene pool viable?  I mean do they encourage navy & marine corps
> personal to come by & well, you know...  Or, do they send thier children
> off world?  Just wondering...

I thought the minimun needed for decent genetic diversity was on the order of
10,000.  Any geneticists wanna correct us here?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:43:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Transporter

In mail you write:

> I need a scientific explanation for a device that USED to be a
> teleduplicator, would recreate an object or living thing at the atomic level
> from particles found at the destination...
>
> ..but now it is actually able to hold the consciousness so that the product
> at the destination will be the same person, though possibly different on the
> physical level.  The first version was only making a clone that possessed
> the memories of the person being "scanned" at the origin.

It's not *possible* to give a scientific explanation because what you
are calling "conciousness" (actually more like a "soul" or "mind")
doesn't *exist* as far as science is concerned.

If you physically duplicate the atoms and energy states (actually you'd
be duplicating the "wave function") then science says it *is* the same.

So before you can drag science into it, you have to *scientifically*
define this thing you are calling "consciousness". There'd have to be a
*measurable* difference between the results produced by the first
version and by the second. And if they can measure it, then it's only a
short step to duplicating it. 

BTW, the "scan and send" type device has no *real* reason to destroy
the individual. In fact several authors have written stories based on
the premise. Including one by Poul Anderson where they send a copy of a
troubleshooter to a colony world and when he's killed, they send
another copy of him. Which rather freaks out the colonists. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 08:52:06 EST
From: Diespamer@aol.com
Subject: "Knight Riding" Music from Excalibur...

Greetings:

While there is a fair bit of Wagner in "Excalibur", the choral piece that is
used when the knights are riding off to their final battle during Excalibur is
by another composer. It's a great piece called:

Carmina Burana
by Carl Orff

The version I have is from RCA Red Seal, RCD14550. But there are many versions
on many labels, so you should have no problem finding it.

I haven't ever used this in a Traveller game, but along with Starvinsky's "The
Firebird", "The Rite of Spring" (or "Le Sacre du Printemps") and "Petrouska"
and Prokofiev's "Alexander Nevsky" (soundtrack from a early Soviet film).

I highly recommend the BMG Classic edition of "Alexander Nevsky"
(09026-61926-2), as it has the sounds of the "battle on the ice" from the
film. For those of you not familiar with the story, Alexander Nevsky's ill-
equipped partisan troops lure the invading hordes of Teutonic German knights
out onto a ice-covered lake, where the heavily armored troops falls through
the ice and drown, thus saving Mother Russia, etc., etc., etc. A great film
and a great soundtrack once you get past thepropaganda!

Fred Kiesche
(Traveller Since 1977)
(Father Since 1998)
(Lover of Classical Music Since 1962)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 02:54:17 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: M:IW - The Terran Free Traders

                      The Terran Free Traders

One of the distinguishing features of the Interstellar Wars were the Free 
Traders, indeed it is generally accepted that they were a major factor in the 
ongoing tensions between the Terrans and Vilani. The Free Traders were 
independent Terran merchants who found a ready market for Terran goods 
amongst the Vilani frontier worlds. Whilst a few Free Traders could be found in 
the early years of the 22nd Century, they did not become a major factor until 
after the First Interstellar War. With the availability of large numbers of cheap 
surplus naval couriers and high tech Terran goods, the circumstances were 
right for a great flourishing of independent mercantilism.

The first Free Traders were collectives of former military personnel who had 
chosen to pool their mustering out benefits and use them as down payment on 
a surplus naval transport. This collective spirit was to distinguish the Free 
Traders throughout the Interstellar Wars period; most crews would consists of a 
group of shareholders working for a share of the vessels profits (or losses). 
Extra crewmembers might be hired on an as needed basis, but most ships 
avoided this as it greatly increased their expenses. Their command structures 
were informal with most decisions being made by consensus. Most crews 
generally accepted one of their number as captain (many interstellar 
regulations of the time required a captain), but few had use for other ranks and 
titles.

Initially the Free Traders were restricted solely to the Terran Confederation and 
the Vilani worlds within a few parsecs of the border. However with the Terran 
triumph (and resulting commercial concessions) in the 3rd Interstellar War they 
began to trade throughout the entire sector. By the dawn of the 23rd Century 
they were beginning to expand into adjacent sectors and had become a major 
commercial force in the rimward provinces of the Ziru Sirka.

The Free Traders did not follow organised trade route and while they did carry 
conventional freight, they were most noted for their speculative trading. 
Protected by their privileged position, the Vilani trading Bureaux had for 
centuries possessed an effective monopoly on interstellar trade. Despite paying 
considerable attention to their markets, they had gradually lost contact with 
their customers and by the time of the Interstellar Wars were no longer fully 
meeting the needs of many worlds. The Free Traders were able to capitalise on 
this and provide the Vilani frontier worlds with goods and services that the 
Bureaux were unwilling or unable to. Initially the Free Traders only traded in the 
few specialist goods which the Terrans had an advantage in (medical supplies, 
computers, and the like). Nevertheless, as Terran technology matched (and 
then surpassed) that of the Vilani, they expanded into other more mainstream 
areas. The watershed is usually regarded as the so-called Empty Peace 
(2158 AD to 2185 AD). During this period the Free Traders made considerable 
inroads into traditional Vilani markets, trading in everything from childrens toys 
to heavy machinery. It was during this period that the Free Traders overcame 
the traditional Vilani cultural prejudice towards alien goods as they came to 
regard Terran goods as equal or superior to their own. Once this prejudice was 
overcome, it was only a matter of time before the more responsive nature of the 
Free Traders came to supplant the Bureaux as the principle supplier of the 
border worlds.

                    The Free Traders Foundation

The Free Traders Foundation (FTF) was a non-profit organisation set up by the 
remarkable Terran industrialist Yukio Hasagua in 2121 AD. Intended to foster 
and encourage the growing Free Traders, the FTF championed the cause of the 
Free Traders against frequent disfavour in the Terran Confederation and the 
continued hostility in the Ziru Sirka. The FTF became the first port of call for 
any Free Trader who felt themselves aggrieved by either government.

REFEREE INFORMATION: The FTF was actually supported and encouraged 
by the CEIB (Confederation External Intelligence Bureau), who found that the 
Free Traders provided excellent cover for many intelligence operations.

Working notes  Why Terran goods penetrated Vilani markets. Vilani 
responses. Two sided Terran attitude to Free Traders. Official Terran 
discouragement of large cross border traders.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 07:54:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Victor J. Raymond" <raymond@macalester.edu>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

On Fri, 25 Dec 1998, Clif wrote:

> >> Was there such a thing as a secular American Indian?
> >>
> >> --Clif
> >
> >Yes.  Me.
> 
> Please notice that I used the word "was."  Sigghhhh.  My question was
> whether atheistic, secular American Indians existed at that time.  If not,
> then ALL actions against the American Indians of that time would have to be
> considered as being "religious persecution", since their religion was so
> much a part of their culture.
> >
> >Seriously, I _am_ a member of the Rosebud Sioux tribe, a "real live
> >injun!", and I just want to point out that it would be a good idea to be
> >*careful* when talking about other religious or ethnic groups.
> 
> Right, because we live in a country where a person has Freedom of Speech,
> correct?
> >
> --Clif

Well, Clif, the confusion that your original message engendered on my part
is a reasonable sign that being careful when communicating would be
warranted.
 
In regard to your original question: it is difficult to know what sort of
religions existed on the North American continent during the early period
of settlement by Europeans, for two reasons:
 
- - one, there were several hundred different tribes (still are), and
religious/spiritual beliefs varied widely between them.
- - two, European explorers and colonists had an unfortunate tendency to
destroy any records of NA beliefs and to re-educate native people to
Christianity.  There were minor exceptions, but this was largely the rule.
 
Finally, regarding your notation about freedom of speech - hey, if you
want to be a jerk, feel free.  _I'm_ not stopping you.
 
Victor Raymond

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1315
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 26 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1316



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: Transporter
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1315
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1314
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool
Traveller World Building
Idea Stealing
Re: Flying a grav vehicle
Noble nobility
Re: Crew Size on Naval Warships
Re: Stealing Plotlines
Re: Idea Stealing
Re: Flying a grav vehicle
Re: Vacc suit questions
Re: Stealing Plotlines
Re: Scottish Daleks?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 07:56:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Victor J. Raymond" <raymond@macalester.edu>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

On Fri, 25 Dec 1998, Steven Hudson wrote:

> >From: "Victor J. Raymond" <raymond@macalester.edu>
> >Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions
> ...
> >> Was there such a thing as a secular American Indian?
> ...
> >Yes.  Me.
> 
>  Aren't you awfully, well, how to put this, active? For a bi-centenarian,
> that is?        :>

Dear Steve,
 
Hand me my sacred walker so I can thrash you with it.  <grin>
 
Victor

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:13:21 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Transporter

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> BTW, the "scan and send" type device has no *real* reason to destroy
> the individual. In fact several authors have written stories based on
> the premise. Including one by Poul Anderson where they send a copy of a
> troubleshooter to a colony world and when he's killed, they send
> another copy of him. Which rather freaks out the colonists. :-)
> 

And remember, one interesting twist with this. The second duplicate DOES
NOT have the memories of the first so he/she will not remember people
the first duplicate knew, world/area specific knowledge, etc., but will
have memories of what the original did in the intervening time. Can be
interesting if the first duplicate (clone?) was married, had children
etc. since the clone wouldn't know them and may not have the same
feelings. An interesting example (albeit a bit over played) is the
situations encountered on "7 Days" with the on again, off again romance
between the 2 lead characters.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:16:59 -0700
From: "Eric T. or Maryann C. Holmes" <holmberg@thuntek.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1315

Fellow Travellers:

I hope your holiday was as bright and cheery as mine.

I'm using Boxing Day (yes, I'm one of those Yanks that celebrates it) to
recover.  I watched the wife, mother-in-law and daughters go out the door
to hit the after Christmas Day sales.  I'm left to sleep, surf or whatever.
Whew! I never realized how much older I feel after these holidays.  

Now to get ready for January 2nd, and the Orange Bowl.  Don't expect me to
write! I'll be cheering Syracuse on.  An early Happy New Year to all my
fellow TMLers.

Eric

Eric T. or Maryann C. Holmes
holmberg@thuntek.net
505-896-8061

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:10:13 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1314

On Sat, 26 Dec 1998 00:49:05 -0500, David Smart
<warlock@imagin.net> wrote:

>Mike Wittek posted:

>> All,
>> I am looking for what is considered the best window character generation
>> program on the Net. I would prefer T4 generation rules, but I am looking
>> for them all. Any help would be appreciated.

>I have two freeware MT chargen programs for Windows.
>The first, called "MegaTraveller GM Aid", was developed
>by Dennis G. Landsem in 1992. The second, called
>"MegaTraveller Character Generator", was developed by
>A.S. Lilly, also in 1992.

>I have the original .zip file for the first but you
>may need to contact Andy for the second. His software
>does state that it was for alpha-testing only and was
>not to be distributed with his say-so.
>(Yo, Andy, you out there?)

>Dennis' program forces some random rolls, yet includes
>chargen from the 2 DGP alien modules. Andy's allows you
>to manipulate every single roll but you can't save the
>character.

Please forward me what you've got, to my cyburban address.
Alternatively, send me a URL where they reside normally.  Either
way, they'll be available for download from Freelance Traveller's
Computer Connection as soon thereafter as I can post changes to
the site.


- --
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
freetrav@hotmail.com
freetrav@my-dejanews.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:28:59 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool

On Sat, 26 Dec 1998 08:58:30 -0500, "Legate Legion"
<legate@futureone.com> wrote:

>ObTrav:  On those worlds of under one million people, how do you think they
>keep the gene pool viable?  I mean do they encourage navy & marine corps
>personal to come by & well, you know...  Or, do they send thier children
>off world?  Just wondering...

ISTR reading somewhere that as long as you have 30 people who are
genetically separated more than first cousins, you have a viable
genetic pool.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:33:31 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Traveller World Building

Next Christmas I want:

A Traveller equivalent to AD&D World Builder's Guidebook.
It should include:

1) Extended System Generation so you can do something within a
system.
2) Planetary detail. Gravity, day and year length, and
temperature. World mapping so you can do something with climate.
3) Biology. Not just the animals generated in the main Traveller
rules, but plant life based on the climate. Relationships of the
animals, generation of sentient aliens.
4) Proportions of alien cultures and human subcultures.
5) Local population densities and cities. 
6) Extended TL. The TL in a world's UWP represents the locally
generated average TL at the starport...out in the sticks, it
might be considerably lower (It could be higher!). PE's
suggestion on breaking it down into Energy, Materials processing,
Information processing, medical, transportation, and R&D works
for me.
7) World philosophy or character.  The "World character" of PE is
connected with this as well, though some of these categories are
more useful than others. Planning, Militancy, Unity, and
Tolerance seem OK. I have a hard time distinguishing
"Progression","advancement", and  "growth". Two characteristics
that I would like to see are "equity" (degree of distinction
between social classes), and "Safety"  (Of your life, liberty,
and property: has little to do with law level)
8) Families. PE had the right idea, but I need a quick skeleton:
How many children a couple had and when, who and when a child
married, and how long each child lived. I can fill in the blanks
later. 
9) Economic structure. The trade class and TL give only a very
vague idea of what the principal industries on a world might be.
(UWP is C303422-B...Can the players expect fresh bananas if they
ever come here? What about vac suits? Spare parts for a grav
belt?) A way to estimate the volume and type of major imports and
exports and how busy the starport should be would be nice. What
are the common vocational skills? The Economic extension to the
UWP will do nicely.
10) Corporate and educational structure. (Can I expect a to find
a university here? A representative of Tukera Lines?)
11) Government and legal structure. The Milieu-0 campaign
hardback gives some nice ideas on the ULP (univeral law profile).
For government, some idea of the various functions of government;
e.g.  Finance, law enforcement, military and how important each
one is.
12) Social organizations and movements.  These might include
religious groups, political parties, revolutionaries, and all
kinds of "isms" and "ists".
13) Leaders. Important leaders in families, corporations,
government, and other social movements.
14) Changes. Social organization is not static, but changes.
sometimes slowly, sometimes rapidly. Some ideas for generating a
history and making social changes would be nice.

I don't need yet another version of FF&S: I need something to
help flesh out bare UWPs so I can run interesting adventures.
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:33:26 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Idea Stealing

Keven Pittsinger wrote:

>Where am I stealing my ideas from these days?  Niven/Pournelle,
>Drake, Jack L. Chalker, and of course, the late Admiral.

For me, Heinlien (before Stranger in a Strange Land). C.J.
Cherryh. Elizabeth Moon. Bits and pieces of others (Asimov,
Clarke, Herbert, Moressey, Norton)
I prefere Pournelle to Niven.  Chalker is a bit too free with
biotechnology. Admiral who?

  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:33:34 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

"Joseph R. Dietrich" wrote:

>This question occured to me today when I was driving home from
>Cincinnati. In normal circumstances, it is relatively easy to
>drive a car, more difficult to fly a plane (well, land
>actually), and even more difficult to fly a helicopter. To which
>of these do you think piloting a grav vehicle compares?

>My instinct is that it would be more difficult than an
>automobile but less difficult than an airplane, since you don't
>have to worry about spins, stalls, and the like. What do you
>think?

  I'd go along with that. You do have to worry about altitude
(motion in three dimensions) and atmospheric effects (wind and
turbulence). I suspect that grav vehicles would carry anti-
collision radar and that most "parking" spaces would carry
miniature beacons of some type for computer assisted landing.
  I expect grav vehicles to be subject to more flight regulations
(minimum/maximum altitude, flight corridors, no-fly zones,
minimum and maximum speed limits) than ground vehicles. Traffic
control in urban areas would be something of a mess.
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:33:23 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Noble nobility

>>   But the Imperium never had paper guarantees of rights or
>>liberties to begin with.  It was founded on the idea that its
>>ruling nobles would be honorable, fair, responsible, etc. 
>>Clearly the reality fell well short of the ideal, but if there
>>were no ideal to begin with; if most of the nobles were selfish
>>and opressive most of the time, the Imperium would certainly
>>never have lasted as long as it did.
>>   So, what kept the nobles *noble*?

Ian Whitchurch replied:

>Paper rights may not be the actual issue.

>Australia, for example, does not have freedom of the press. The
>government can issue a D-notice, which prevents a particular
>subject being written on, or suppresses an article.

>Now, they havent been used much since an incident in WW2, where
>a paper was ordered to censor a story, they disagreed that the
>story was about National Security, the censors were insistent,
>so the paper ran with half of page one blacked out.

>There is debate at the moment about whether or not we
>Australians put a Bill of Rights in our constitution when we get
>around to replacing the Queen of England as our Head of State.

>Some prominent lawyers are arguing against codifying rights, as
>once you codify something you leave gaps for smart lawyers to
>exploit.

Then why have written law at all? It seems easier to evade an
unwritten rule than one that is codified.

[Snippage]

>Now, this is going to put a practical limit on what you can get
>away with along the lines of selfish and oppressive - it may be
>*your* planet, but if others in the subsector feels that 'He's
>letting the team down, what ? Bit of a cad. Someone should do
>something about it, before the natives get too restless'.

   I don't doubt that this kind of thing is *how* nobles regulate
each other's behavior, but I was thinking more of how they decide
what is just and fair. What standard are they using? 
Most earth governments I can think of have had some kind of
religious, ethical, or philosophical foundation for their rule:
some standard of what was "right" and "wrong".

     What does the Imperium use?
     Are there any hints beyond the emphasis on honor mentioned
in M:0 or Norris' speeches in Survival Margin?
    I have an idea of how a belief system (not exactly a religion)
based on Terran religious concepts but not identical with any of
them could have become widespread among the Imperial nobility,
but I'd like to at least float the idea before I develop it in
detail.
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:35:49 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Crew Size on Naval Warships

At 12:07 23-12-98 +0000, Jens Maskus wrote:
>Does anybody know the crew size of Warships like the USS Enterprise, Iowa,
Nimitz, 
>Nuclear Subs etc... divided into Engineering, Pilots, Gunners ....

Don't see how this could be considered classified....  Figures given below
are for a 688-class sub; they're approximate, and will vary slightly up or
down as personnel transfer out after or before their reliefs report in.

    Command
       2 officers (Commanding Officer, Executive Officer)
       COB
    Navigation/Operations
       2 officers (Navigator, Communicator)
       11 comms/sensor operators
       10 nav/electronics
    Engineering
       6 officers (Engineer, 5 division officers)
       12 life-support techs
       37 propulsion/power plant techs
    Weapons
       2 officers (Weapons Officer, 1 division officer)
       8 gunners
       6 fire control
       16 sensor operators
       4 deck
    Supply
       1 officer (Supply Officer)
       3 storekeepers
       6 cooks
    Medical
       1 corpsman
    Admin
       3 yeomen
    Total
       13 officers
       118 enlisted

Notes:
   Command: The COB (known in non-submarine USN commands as the Command
Master Chief) is the senior enlisted person on the boat; his function is
mainly administrative, but I've placed him here rather than with Admin.
    Nav/Ops: The sensor operators operate both active (radar) and passive
(ESM) sensors.  Navigation personnel are also responsible for
atmosphere-monitoring and interior communications equipment.
    Engineering: The "life-support techs" are the auxiliarymen, who are
responsible for most of the life-support equipment, but also own the diesel
and hydraulic plants.  The remaining personnel are the nucs, who are of
course responsible for the reactor and associated equipment, but also own
the air-conditioning and water-distilling plants.
    Weapons: The "gunners," of course, are torpedomen; they have four
torpedo tubes, with up to 22 reloads.  (Later boats - 719 on - also have 12
VLS tubes, with no reloads.)  The sensor operators are the sonar girls, who
again operate both active and passive sensors.  Deck division is composed
of the most junior personnel on board - non-rated seamen who are "striking"
for one of the other divisions on board, and will work full-time for that
division after they are advanced to PO3.
    Supply: Storekeepers are responsible for ordering spare/replacement
parts and supplies (except for food), and stowing on-board spares.  Cooks
order and stow food, as well as cooking it.  Newly-reported junior
personnel (PO2 or lower) who have not previously "cranked" will spend up to
120 days working for the cooks - washing dishes, waiting on tables, veg
prep, and other "KP"-like duties.
    Medical: The corpsman - usually a PO1 or CPO - takes care of routine
medical/sanitation matters in port, and emergency medical/dental work at
sea.  Anyone who needs the attention of a real MD is referred to a shore
facility.
    Officers: The CO is a CDR, the XO a LCDR.  Department heads are LCDRs
or LTs.  (The Eng and Nav are most likely to be LCDRs; the Chop - Supply
Officer - is almost invariably an LT.)  Division officers are LTs, LTJGs,
or Ensigns.

James

- ----------     ----------     ----------     ----------
HEAVEN is where all the police are English, the mechanics
German, the lovers Greek, and the cooks French, and it's
all run by the Swiss.  HELL is where all the police are
German, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, and the
cooks English, and it's all run by the Greeks.
                      (from a t-shirt I bought in Greece)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 06:48:54 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Stealing Plotlines

At 08:41 25-12-98 -0500, Keven wrote:
>Drake is good for plotlines.  For instance, for ideas on merc tickets,
there's his Hammer's Slammers stories, and one not as famous:  Forlorn
Hope, which, IMNSFBHO, is one *HELL* of a read.
>
>Where am I stealing my ideas from these days?  Niven/Pournelle, Drake,
Jack L. Chalker, and of course, the late Admiral.

Drake's *Starliner* is another really good one.  It's set on an
interstellar liner (the main characters are ship's officers), and there are
these two old coots who keep telling wildly improbable tales about their
past adventures....


James

- ----------     ----------     ----------     ----------
HEAVEN is where all the police are English, the mechanics
German, the lovers Greek, and the cooks French, and it's
all run by the Swiss.  HELL is where all the police are
German, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, and the
cooks English, and it's all run by the Greeks.
                      (from a t-shirt I bought in Greece)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:50:58 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Idea Stealing

Thad Coons wrote:
> 
> Keven Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> >Where am I stealing my ideas from these days?  Niven/Pournelle,
> >Drake, Jack L. Chalker, and of course, the late Admiral.
> 
> For me, Heinlien (before Stranger in a Strange Land). C.J.
> Cherryh. Elizabeth Moon. Bits and pieces of others (Asimov,
> Clarke, Herbert, Moressey, Norton)
> I prefere Pournelle to Niven.  Chalker is a bit too free with
> biotechnology. Admiral who?
> 
Why, Admiral Heinlein, of course.

> 

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:19:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

In mail you write:

> Joseph, in a probably-futile attempt to get this list back on topic,
> wrote
>>How difficult is it to pilot a grav vehicle like a g-carrier or air raft?
> Pretty easy. Computerized controls (which is what you pay all that
> money for in FFS grav vehicles) of TL9+ should ensure that the grav
> vehicle is essentially perfectly stable; if you point it in a direction
> and let go of the controls it will keep going straight (probably 
> automatically
> leveling out), as opposed to aircraft or even cars, which are at least
> slightly unstable.

Actually, with the exception of aerobatic (stunt) planes and some
modern fighters, airplanes *are* designed to be inherently stable.
That's how a plane with no pilot can fly for hundreds of miles, and
only crash when it hits turbulence, runs out of fuel, or flies into
something. 

Ask anybody who has had even a *little* pilot training. *Flying* is the
easy part. At least in normal weather. Taking off is tricky, and
landing is *hard*. 

> The hard part is probably maintaing adequate
> awareness of your environment - like other vehicles - especially at
> high speeds; fast (200 km/h+) grav vehicles may require special
> licensing and/or nav equipment and sensors.

Well, there *is* another problem. I forget to mention it in my other
post on stability. But since stability depends on the relationship
betwen the center of gravity (CG) and center of pressure (CP), how you
*load* a grav vehicle make a *big* difference. 

Since the shape of the vehicle is constant, the CP location is fixed.
But the CG depends on the mass distribution inside the vehicle. Load
too much *heavy* cargo into the back of a grav vehicle and it'll be
unflyable. Even a slight breeze will put it into a spin or a tumble.

Computer controls and variable direction thrusters can only do so much
to compensate for that sort of thing. 

So flying a passenger vehicle isn't going to be too bad. But flying a
*cargo* vehicle is going to require the skills of a loadmaster to make
sure you balance out the moment arms of all the cargo. (Moment arm
=distance from normal CG times mass of item). 

This can be *real* fun if you have a lot of heavy items, and they have
to be dropped off individually at different locations. Say drops of
weapons or ammo to groups of soldiers in a combat zone. Unless you get
*really* lucky, you'll either have to fly with a partial load (so you
can get at all the items without shifting others), or land, unload the
item *plus others*, and then rearrange the load so that you'll be
stable before take off. Not a fun thing to do under fire. :-)

Even if the vehicle *can* compensate for the badly offcenter load,
you'll have to *tell* the computer the locations and mass of the cargo.
Which, again, means a delay after each drop to tell the computer that
the distribution has changed (NOT something you want to try in mid air)

Worse, I bet that on all but the fancier military vehicles, the
computer will want you to give it the size and weight of all the items,
and then it will tell you how to place them for the best weight
distribution. Civilian vehicles would *definitely* be that way, so as
to avoid liability for crashes when some idiot misloaded his air-raft. 
And of course, this means that when you remove an item, the computer is
liable to *insist* that you re-arrange the cargo. 

I think I *like* this. It makes sense, it's technically accurate, and
it's *exactly* the sort of detail that will drive the players *nuts* at
some critical moment. :-)

Oh yeah, this also means that most grav vehicles that either carry a
*lot* of people, or carry much cargo will have a scale built into the
floor at one or more of the doors/hatches. For a bit extra, you add a
laser scanner to record the dimensions of the cargo items. That speeds
things up a bit.

So after everyone gets on board, the pilot may tell a few passengers to
swap seats based on the weight the computer recorded for them. Sort of
like a car a friend used to have. The friend weighed around 250, and so
did a couple of the folks who rode in it frequently. And it was a
small, *light* car. So we had to arrange the passengers carefully. You
*don't* want to have a 300 pounder in the back seat on the driver's
side and another as the driver. Make a quick turn to the left and the
car will wind up on its side! :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:44:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Vacc suit questions

In mail you write:

> 1. Of what material are modern (TL 7-8) vacc suits composed of?

Various materials. They have several layers. There's a cooling garment
(think of long underwear with fine tubing woven thru it) worn more or
less against the skin. This has water circulated thru it to carry
excess heat to the cooling unit in the backpack.

Next is a gas membrane layer which is basicly a mix of some synthetic
fiber and a rubber of some sort (probably synthetic rubber or even
silicone rubber). 

Over this is an abrasion garment, made of some *tough* synthetic fiber.
It's purpose it to keep you from rubbing holes in the pressure garment.

Finally, there may be an additional layer of sunshade/micrometeorite
garment. This is both to reflect excess sunlight (which is why it's
white) and to stop dust grain sized meteors *before* they impacr the
inner layers. 

The suits used on the Shuttle tend to skip the cooling garment (and
rely on forced air circulation) as well as have the layers fastened
together at the various "seals" which are much like the one for the
helmet. The abrasion garment still goes over the outside seperately.

You see, the shuttle suits, rather than being custom built for each
astronaut are composed of a series of interchangeable parts in several
sives. So you have several sizes of glove, boot, arm, leg, and the two
body segments (which join at the waist). 

> 2. What material advances might be postulated for higher-tech vacc suits?

Materials may get somewhat lighter/stronger. But the abrasion garment
and/or micrometeor/sunshade *have to be somewhat thick and heavy due to
their *purpose*. 

The big advance will be if we ever find a *practical* means of using
so-called "skin suits". These replace the pressure garment, the
cooiling suit *and* the cooiling unit, with a form fitting elastic
leotard sort of garment. 

The leotard is *not* gas tight. It relies on the fact that *skin* is
gas tight. The leotard merely supplies the required *pressure* on the
skin to counter the internal pressure. For cooling, sweat works *very*
well in a vacuum. So your body can handle cooling on its own. No need
for artificial assistance. 

The big problems with skin suits (which were first worked on in the
*50s*!) are two-fold. First, because the suit must fit *tightly*, they
are a *bear* to get on. They also require padding in a few places where
the body is concave instead of convex. Otherwise they can't prevent the
skin from rupturing there. 

The second problem is that the elastic material tends to lose its
elasticity after prolonged exposure to vacuum. That's one place where
future materials will be a real help. 

> 3. How do you seal a vacc suit after putting it on? I am assuming they do
> not have normal zippers.

Actually, a lot of them have perfectly normal zippers. It's just that
there are overlapping rubber "flaps" on the inner side. The internal
pressure pushes the flaps together, forming a seal. 

> 4. How would you seal the helmet? More importantly, how would you seal the
> helmet of the oft-depicted suits of combat armor? Usually, these appear to
> be more akin to motorcycle helmets than astronaut helmets (which seem to be
> joined to the suit at the shoulder), and I am wondering about how feasable
> this design would be on a vacc suit.

The normal seals for a helmet (even on a skin suit) involve the helmet
locking onto a collar. That's pretty much the only workable way of
doing it. 

On any suit that has air inside, you've got the "balloon" problem. The
pressure garment wants to make like a balloon. And *bending* any of the
joints is a problem because that reduces the volume of the "balloon"
and thus increases pressure. That means that you have to exert a fair
amount of force to make the joints bend. And worse, if you try having a
"neck joint" rather than the collar and helmet setup, you can't turn
your head or even look up/down easily. 

It *is* doable (look at a USAF high altitude suit sometime), but it
isn't easy.

BTW, one problem they *still* haven't solved is waste disposal. Urine
is easy to deal with for men. You use an external catheter (basicly a
reinforced rubber with a tube attached to the tip, and some adhesive
strips to hold it in place). For women, it's rather more painful, since
the last I heard they still had to use an *internal* catheter (a
plastic tube inserted into the urethra and going on into the bladder). 

If you need to defecate, you do it beforehand, or if you are on a long
duration excursion (for example, the Apollo astronauts on the Lunar
surface) you use a *diaper*. Yes, disposable diapers are a spin-off of
the Apollo program! Ditto for the disposable wipes. 

This is a problem that *really* doesn't have a good solution. And it'll
take some *really* creative thinking to come up with one. If you can
find one, the entire astronaut corps will thank you.

BTW, *now* you know why the Mercury and Gemini missions used the "low
residue" foods. Because they *couldn't* take off those suits during the
flight!

If you decide that the problem *isn't* solvable, I want to watch when
you inform your players of this little known detail of extended vacc
suit operations. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:19:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Stealing Plotlines

In mail you write:

>> At 11:49 24-12-98 -0500, Thad Coons wrote:
>> >   Short on plot hooks? Just mine your favorite pre-industrial
>> >era in history.  Use thinly disguised or slightly altered
>> >versions of unfamiliar events.  Take different viewpoints and you
>> >can use the same event as a seed for three or four different
>> >plots.
>> 
>> Indeed.  I'm currently reading *Patriots*, by David Drake - based on Ethan
>> Allen and his actions in Vermont before/during the American Revolution.
>> Other SF books have been similarly based on RW events.
>
> Drake is good for plotlines.  For instance, for ideas on merc tickets, 
> there's his Hammer's Slammers stories, and one not as famous:  Forlorn Hope, 
> which, IMNSFBHO, is one *HELL* of a read.

I forget the title, but Drake has done a book that is basicly the
"Jason and the Argonauts" legend with the serial numbers filed off.
He *likes* re-writing myths. And he does a good job of it. 

> Where am I stealing my ideas from these days?  Niven/Pournelle, Drake, Jack 
> L. Chalker, and of course, the late Admiral.

Andre Norton's old SF juveniles are a good source of ideas too. Ditto
for a lot of Poul Anderson's stuff from the 50s & 60s. But Norton was
*definitely* one of the inspirations for Traveller. Free Traders,
Scouts, Forerunners (the Ancients, except that Norton has there be
many, *many* races and cultures before the current races). 

Just off the top of my head:

"Catseye": illegally exploring a Forerunner installation that isn't as
	dead as was thought.
"Storm over Warlock" and the sequel: First In Scouts, people trying to
	swipe stuff from a world that's red zoned because the Scouts
	are still trying to deal with the psionic natives.
"Night of Masks": a kidnapping job, an interesting planet.
"The Zero Stone" and sequels: Interstellar jewel trade, forerunner
	artifacts, several interesting worlds cultures as you trade for
	jewels.
"Dread Piper": a war vet comes home, tries to warn folks that their
	world isn't all that safe, gets rejected, winds up looking for
	forerunner artifacts in a series of lava caves (NEAT
	background!) and having to find a way out with a bunch of
	helpless civilians.

And of course, the entire "Solar Queen" series.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:33:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Scottish Daleks?

In mail you write:

>>From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
>>Subject: Re: Background Music
> ...
>>stairs.  Also, less explicitly, in "Genesis Of The  Daleks"  (Tom
>>Baker's Doctor) they are capable of  crossing  war-ravaged  rough
>>terrain from the Kalid's scientific bunker to the Thal domed city
>>... not possible if all they had under were wheels.

Not necessarily. Wheels can get over some moderately rugged terrain.
And there did seem to be the equivalent of old footpaths and trails. 

>   So, what _do_ Daleks have under their kilts? :)

Ach, laddie. Y'dinna want to know.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1316
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 26 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1317



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Imperial Music/Soundtracks
Re: Flying a grav vehicle
Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet
Re: To Jesse:  the Rest Ignore
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: GT: combat example
Re: Moving Against Religions
Skin Suits, IMTU
Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Traveller World Building 
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Flying a grav vehicle
Re: Flying a grav vehicle
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Noble nobility
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: Flying a grav vehicle

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:37:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Imperial Music/Soundtracks

In mail you write:

> I think I've found what Emperors - and possibly other nobles of
> Solomani heritage - will use as their processional.
>
> Rimsky-Korsakov's _Mlada:_Procession_of_the_Nobles_.  It just
> seems so _right_.
>
> It'd also make great soundtrack music for when your PCs are
> present in person for a noble's processional.

Well, I was watching "Ben Hur" last night (I've been fond of it ever
since it was released) and I noted that the various "fanfares" and
marches in it and other "Roman" type films of the period might be
useful as background too. 

They are *different* from the more modern stuff, but still convey that
feel of "Imperial majesty and might"

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 08:41:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

In mail you write:

> How difficult is it to pilot a grav vehicle like a g-carrier or air raft?
>
> This question occured to me today when I was driving home from Cincinnati.
> In normal circumstances, it is relatively easy to drive a car, more
> difficult to fly a plane (well, land actually), and even more difficult to
> fly a helicopter. To which of these do you think piloting a grav vehicle
> compares?
>
> My instinct is that it would be more difficult than an automobile but less
> difficult than an airplane, since you don't have to worry about spins,
> stalls, and the like. What do you think?

You don't have to worry about stalls, because they are caused by an
angle of attack such that the lift forces go away. And a grav vehicle
isn't using aerodynamic lift.

But spins *are* possible.  Anything moving at high speed thru the air
can create an unstable airflow by either poor design or violent
manuevers. At which point it will tumble, spin, etc.

The "trick" is that since the "thrust" is always in the *same*
direction RELATIVE TO THE VEHICLE, then truly weird things can happen
if the vehicle is not inherently stable aerodynamicly. This
*regardless* of whether or not the vehicle uses lift forces to stay in
the air. 

I've seen many a model rocket whose builder overlooked this do the
*most* amazing manuevers (flight path looked like a tangle of yarn!).
Grav vehicles will be no different. 

In atmosphere, anything moving at any speed worth using *does* have to
worry about aerodynamic forces. 

What happens is like this. A gust of wind, or an imperfection in the
hull creates an unbalanced aerodynamic force. This force cause the
vehicle to pivot about the center of pressure (CP) of the vehicle.
Thrust forces keep on pushing along a line thru the cemnter of gravity
(CG, aka center of mass). 

If the CG is ahead of the CP, the aerodynamic forces from a slight
deflection generate *bigger* forces in the opposite direction thus
actually cause the vehicle to "correct" back to the way it was pointing
(positive stability).

If the CG and CP are more or less in the same place then the
aerodynamic forces will turn the ship, but no compensating forces are
generated (neutral stability). Thus the ship may have a tendency to
turn in one direction or another, which you can compensate for by
correcting the way you are pointing (think of riding a bike in a strong
cross wind. You wind up angling the wheel into the wind to keep going
in the direction you want to go).

If the CG is *behind* the CP, then the forces generated by a slight
deflection generate stronger forces *in the same direction* (negative
stability). This means that any deflection force is *amplified*. And
once a deflection starts, the ship will dance all over the sky until it
runs into something or something breaks.

So flying a grav vehicle is *worse* than driving on ice. :-)

BTW, the stability of an aircraft affects the eease of manuevering.
Positive stability basically means that left to its own devices the
craft will "want" to fly in a straight line. 

Some aerobatic craft have *very* small stability margins. That's why
they are tricky to fly. But they do amazing stunts. 

And some modern fighters have *negative* stability and are only flyable
because of *extensive* computer control.  The computer is constantly
making *active* corrections to keep the plane flying in the direction
that the pilot wants it to. When the pilot moves a control, the
computer translates that into "he wants to go *that* way" and adjusts
the control surfaces and thrust accordingly. These can't be flown
without computer assistance. And the computer program has to know the
responses of the plane. You can't swap it into a different model of
plane and have it work. 

BTW, this is why you *don't* take "non-airframe" ships into atmosphere.
The ship's computer isn't programmed for the required compensation, and
in fact it may not be *possible* to both compensate for wind forces
*and* keep pieces from falling off. Remember that modern jets have run
into "microbursts" that have dropped them multiple thousands of feet in
*seconds*. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:58:03
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet

At 03:03 AM 12/25/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I am wondering what might be in the enclosed in the black duck-tail on the
>back of the Imperial combat helmet, as depicted in MegaTraveller (especially
>the Rebellion sourcebook). I assume it isn't just there for decoration or
>aerodynamic shape.

The shape is good for protecting the head and neck from falling debris,
much like the traditional fire-fighters helmet.  I always picture the space
back there being used for a small water supply, possibly some sort of food
concentrate, and batteries for the helmet's sensor array.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:10:05
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: To Jesse:  the Rest Ignore

At 10:35 PM 12/25/98 -0700, Legate Legion wrote:

>Hey is the list admin out there?  If so, please boot Clif off the TML... 
>He is using the list to attack people, again...  Thank you...

seconded.

Clif's posts have almost nothing to do with Traveller since he arrived.

Doug Berry
dberry@hooked.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:06:34 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

Thad Coons wrote:
> 
> Next Christmas I want:
> 
> A Traveller equivalent to AD&D World Builder's Guidebook.
> It should include:
> 
 One quick note on World Building. 

I've been looking for a copy of the World Builder's handbook for quite a
while. So for Christmas the wife bought me a copy of World Tamers
handbook, a TNE book. Much to my surprise when I opened and starting
reading the system generation section it's all in D6, the credits list
material taken for World Builders handbook and Joe D. Fugate Sr.Now I'm
not sure, since I don't have the original, but I suspect this is a
direct or slightly modified version of the MT book. It appears to be
perfectly compatable with GT and the information generated is certainly
cross platform enough to use. In additon the sections on servey,
colonial economics, and bootstrap operations can easily be moved to
other Millieu.

My point? I don't know if this book is any more easily available than
the MT World Builder's book, but it's another that people interested in
this area should look for. Also, a second point the maybe Marc or Bloo
can answer? Since the material appears in this book can it be re used
without problems with the new owner of DGP, or was World Builder's a GDW
publication? In other words could the information be re printed with the
new (hoefully soon!) publication of Trav?

Mike Peters

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:28:41 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: GT: combat example

At 08:57 AM 24/12/98 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Simple example of the same hex problem:
>
>PCs ship comes zooming in towards the enemy ship at 200 hexes per turn
>at 180 hexes they launch and the enemy accelerates towards them and launches
>missiles in the opposite direction.
>Next turn the PCs are hit by the enemy's missiles after they have overshot
>him but the enemy ship is totally immune to their missiles.
>Result?
>One dead GM or the rules get ignored - your choice.
>
>Phil Kitching
>

        Hi, Phil...

        I am sorry, to me this isn't a problem...  Nobody in their right
mind accelerates at an enemy when conducting missle/ torpedo engagements...
PC vessel should have done a "Fire-Turn-Burn" manuever and had proximity
fused, radar-triggered warheads.  The weapons go off as soon as they start
to "open" on the target, and the Bad Guy missiles are now playing
hypotenuse-catch-up with the player ship.

        Of course, if you are playing table-top ship engagements using
counters, and the players are stupid, then, sure...  they get killed.  Just
like every other bad tactician in history.  Which is the reason I *don't*
use counters for ship combat.  You gotta presume that if a character has a
Gunnery 2 and Pilot 2, that he is up to scratch on combat tactics and will
fight the ship to the fullest of their ability and knowledge...  Knowledge
the player most likely doesn't have.
        Unless you want to spend *a lot* of time doing "simulator"
engagements until the layers are reasonably savvy with the way the whole
thing plays...  and then *they'll* be trying your maneuver on the Bad Guy.  

        --Michel

        
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:42:18 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

In a message dated 12/25/98 10:18:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<< i.e., I don't know :)  Was there genuinely such a thing as a secular
 anything in the Americas in 1830?
  >>

The closest thing I can think of was the Transcendentalist movement, but I
always thaught of them as deists...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 98 14:42:22 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Skin Suits, IMTU

On 12/26/98 at 09:44 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>The big advance will be if we ever find a *practical* means of using
>so-called "skin suits". These replace the pressure garment, the
>cooiling suit *and* the cooiling unit, with a form fitting elastic
>leotard sort of garment. 

>The leotard is *not* gas tight. It relies on the fact that *skin* is
>gas tight. The leotard merely supplies the required *pressure* on the
>skin to counter the internal pressure. For cooling, sweat works
>*very* well in a vacuum. So your body can handle cooling on its own.
>No need for artificial assistance. 

>The big problems with skin suits (which were first worked on in the
>*50s*!) are two-fold. First, because the suit must fit *tightly*,
>they are a *bear* to get on. They also require padding in a few
>places where the body is concave instead of convex. Otherwise they
>can't prevent the skin from rupturing there. 

I've got two sorts of skin suits IMTU a standard tech model and a
"nanotech" model.  The players may run into the nanotech model, but
it isn't commonly available. 

IMTU, standard skin suits are an expensive alternative to the
standard vacc suit.  They are put on in a "relaxed" mode and are
"tightened" slowly, and in segments, after the wearer dons them.
While the suit tightens, wrinkles can be smoothed out and the
padding adjusted for a proper fit.  They provide good short term
protection, but you still need what amounts to a standard vacc suit
over it for extended use outside.

The skin suit has a hood that extends up and over the head and ears.
Plugs are inserted into the ears with integral hearing aids that can
connect to suit radios.  The face mask is clear semi-flexible
material with connectors for air and radio communication.

Waste is handled with catheters and this is one of the reasons that
they are generally for short term use, even when everything is
plugged into a longer-duration hard suit.

>The second problem is that the elastic material tends to lose its
>elasticity after prolonged exposure to vacuum. That's one place where
>future materials will be a real help. 

Right, that's why they're expensive, IMTU, and are specialty
products of a few select systems.

The nano version is extremely high-tech.  It is made of a
self-repairing, self-adjusting, self-sealing, color-varying
material composed of interlocking nano-machines.  The suit covers
the *entire* body, including the face, with the section over the
eyes being able to adjust from opaque to semi, (or completely)
transparent.  The part that covers the face can be "rolled up" into
a pocket on the forehead, and then pulled back down at a moment's
notice.  Hard plugs are built into the material for radio
connections, breathing and feeding tubes.  Waste is handled by the
material itself through storage, processing, and eventual
elimination or incorporation in the material of the suit.

A spacer with an advanced nano skin suit can wear it for months at a
time without ever taking it off.  They may wear regular clothes over
it while aboard ship or on a planet and slip into a hard suit for
extended work outside in space, but their "second skin" is as much a
part of them as is their real skin.

Of course, even these suits aren't perfect.  Though they eliminate
virtually all waste, their is a slow buildup of certain compounds
that smell, ie you stink after a few weeks of wear.  They also
remove body hair, leaving the wearer bald...all over, and
considerably more sun sensitive.  Extended wear of these suits also
produces distinctive marking on the skin around the face and eyes,
rings around the wrists and ankles, etc.  Finally, skin problems
from bacterial, fungal or allergen reactions are common. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 98 14:49:28 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet

On 12/26/98 at 10:58 AM,  dberry@hooked.net said:

>At 03:03 AM 12/25/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>I am wondering what might be in the enclosed in the black duck-tail on the
>>back of the Imperial combat helmet, as depicted in MegaTraveller (especially
>>the Rebellion sourcebook). I assume it isn't just there for decoration or
>>aerodynamic shape.

>The shape is good for protecting the head and neck from falling
>debris, much like the traditional fire-fighters helmet.  I always
>picture the space back there being used for a small water supply,
>possibly some sort of food concentrate, and batteries for the
>helmet's sensor array. --

Loop antenna for the helment radio. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 98 14:55:19 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

On 12/26/98 at 02:06 PM,  Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com> said:

> One quick note on World Building. 

>I've been looking for a copy of the World Builder's handbook for
>quite a while. So for Christmas the wife bought me a copy of World
>Tamers handbook, a TNE book. Much to my surprise when I opened and
>starting reading the system generation section it's all in D6, the
>credits list material taken for World Builders handbook and Joe D.
>Fugate Sr.Now I'm not sure, since I don't have the original, but I
>suspect this is a direct or slightly modified version of the MT book.
>It appears to be perfectly compatable with GT and the information
>generated is certainly cross platform enough to use. In additon the
>sections on servey, colonial economics, and bootstrap operations can
>easily be moved to other Millieu.

I've wondered about this too.  If someone has both WBH and WTH, could you tell
us how similar the two are? What is in one that is not in the other? 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:40:32 +0000
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building 

> I've wondered about this too.  If someone has both WBH and WTH, could you 
> tell us how similar the two are? What is in one that is not in the other? 
> 

They don't share a lot of common information. 

WBH contains:
- - a discussion of how to survey worlds, including a Planetographers Checklist, 
contact procedures, etc
- - equipment descriptions for survey equipment, plus a number of DGP equipment 
sheets
- - some relevant vehicle information, plus MT stats, deckplans, pictures for 
the Donosev class survey ship
- - advanced world generation tables, taking up about half the book
- - world mapping guidelines

The world generation rules extrapolate from each of the 6 UPP stats. 

If you have WTH, then chapter 8 contains material/tables common with WBH. What 
this amounts to is:
- - some of the size related details (for density/gravity)
- - some of the atmosphere related details (for temperature)
- - some of the hydrosphere related details (for world mapping)
Note the word "some" - and bear in mind that WBH looks at all the stats.
Then you get a whole set of different rules, for colony building, mass combat, 
low-tech design, etc.

WTH is about half way between WBH and Pocket Empires. For world generation, 
I'm afraid WBH is far far better book. But WTH has some good things in it, 
which WBH does not have (eg weather rules) and the colony building game is 
interesting.

Plus the artwork & production values of WBH are alot better.

M

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 98 16:06:20 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

On 12/26/98 at 09:40 PM,  Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk> said:

>> I've wondered about this too.  If someone has both WBH and WTH, could you 
>> tell us how similar the two are? What is in one that is not in the other? 

>They don't share a lot of common information. 

<snip>

Thanks for the quick review and bummer.

I was looking through some of my old TD's the other day and ran
across an article by Nancy Parker on adding cultural details to
UWP's.  It reminded me of what I've heard is in WBH.  Was her
article pretty much what eventually went into that section of WBH? 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:25:06 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com> writes:
>I don't need yet another version of FF&S: I need something to
>help flesh out bare UWPs so I can run interesting adventures.
> 

Ie. you want DGP's World Builders Handbook combined with Scouts and TNE
World Tamers.

In the absence of a rewrite, I'd recommend all of these, plus the two
Writers Digest books "Aliens and Alien Societies" and "Worldbuilding".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:27:35 -0700
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

>Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:33:34 -0500
>From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle
>
>  I expect grav vehicles to be subject to more flight regulations
>(minimum/maximum altitude, flight corridors, no-fly zones,
>minimum and maximum speed limits) than ground vehicles. Traffic
>control in urban areas would be something of a mess.
>  

Take a close look at the "Spinner" sequences from _Bladerunner_ (the
"Spinner" is the flying police car). The graphics on the dashboard depict a
flight corridor through the city and a landing pad on the roof of Police
Headquarters; the voice-over (very faint) gives a very convincing and
realistic air traffic control patter.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:01:07 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

>>  I expect grav vehicles to be subject to more flight regulations
>>(minimum/maximum altitude, flight corridors, no-fly zones,
>>minimum and maximum speed limits) than ground vehicles. Traffic
>>control in urban areas would be something of a mess.

>Take a close look at the "Spinner" sequences from _Bladerunner_ (the
>"Spinner" is the flying police car). The graphics on the dashboard depict a
>flight corridor through the city and a landing pad on the roof of Police
>Headquarters; the voice-over (very faint) gives a very convincing and
>realistic air traffic control patter.

I just wanted to add in my 2 cents worth here (No religion or conspiracies
:-)
I was thinking that Urban traffic control with hover craft would work much
like
you see in the movie "The Fifth Element", or even the Jetsons cartoons
(albeit a bit too simplistic there).
Something else that came to mind on this thread, was that I imagine hover-
craft would be harder for US to fly, just as a Car would be harder for say
a 15th century teamster to drive.
However, in a world where they are common place it should be basically a
routine task. Uhm... my knowledge of Traveller comes mostly from the MT
boxed set- so if I'm wrong in using that for a basis- please let me know.
Instead of making a hover vehicle harder to pilot than a car, I'd just make
the TL a little higher so that lower techs (like us) have a penalty to
success
with them.

Later.

Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
http://www.gryffon.com/leta
for all your role-playing needs
ICQ. 8004143

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:45:09 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

Yep! Now if I could only find the vault that has all of the copies of
WHB and the DGP stuff hidden in it I'd die a happy man!

Paradise: The place where old Traveller books are stored in mint
condition. Reportedly a basement in one of the mid-western states where
a hobby shop owner stored several cases of books, bought to restock
shelves, and forgot about them... I have half a map and I'm closing in
on the location...

Mike Peters

Rob Prior wrote:

> Ie. you want DGP's World Builders Handbook combined with Scouts and TNE
> World Tamers.
> 
> In the absence of a rewrite, I'd recommend all of these, plus the two
> Writers Digest books "Aliens and Alien Societies" and "Worldbuilding".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:28:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Noble nobility

In mail you write:

>>>   But the Imperium never had paper guarantees of rights or
>>>liberties to begin with.  It was founded on the idea that its
>>>ruling nobles would be honorable, fair, responsible, etc. 
>>>Clearly the reality fell well short of the ideal, but if there
>>>were no ideal to begin with; if most of the nobles were selfish
>>>and opressive most of the time, the Imperium would certainly
>>>never have lasted as long as it did.
>>>   So, what kept the nobles *noble*?
>
> Ian Whitchurch replied:
>
>>Paper rights may not be the actual issue.

Well, another thing to keep in mind is that more revolts have been
started by the powers that be removing "customary privileges" that were
*never* written down than by the changing of lists of written rights.

>>Some prominent lawyers are arguing against codifying rights, as
>>once you codify something you leave gaps for smart lawyers to
>>exploit.
>
> Then why have written law at all? It seems easier to evade an
> unwritten rule than one that is codified.

Check out the concept of "common law". In essence, that's one of the
things that juries exist for. Ditto for the way the "reasonable person"
standard shows up all over the place in legal decisions.

>>Now, this is going to put a practical limit on what you can get
>>away with along the lines of selfish and oppressive - it may be
>>*your* planet, but if others in the subsector feels that 'He's
>>letting the team down, what ? Bit of a cad. Someone should do
>>something about it, before the natives get too restless'.
>
>    I don't doubt that this kind of thing is *how* nobles regulate
> each other's behavior, but I was thinking more of how they decide
> what is just and fair. What standard are they using? 
> Most earth governments I can think of have had some kind of
> religious, ethical, or philosophical foundation for their rule:
> some standard of what was "right" and "wrong".

Here we get into the difference between "rule of law" and "might makes
right". There are a *lot* of governments who rule on the basis of what
they can get away with rather than what the "law" says. And a number
whose "law" was the whim of the dictator.

So you not only have to worry about the "principles" you have to worry
about how *seriously* they take them. Compare the *actions of the
government of the USSR with the Soviet consitution. 

>      Are there any hints beyond the emphasis on honor mentioned
> in M:0 or Norris' speeches in Survival Margin?

"Honor" has been the principle behind a number of governments. And it
seems to work about as well as anything else.

>     I have an idea of how a belief system (not exactly a religion)
> based on Terran religious concepts but not identical with any of
> them could have become widespread among the Imperial nobility,
> but I'd like to at least float the idea before I develop it in
> detail.

Heck, no need for a "religion". Check out the Code of Chivalry and the
principles of Bushido. 
   
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:25:24 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

>From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
>Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions
...
>What about the Jewish Traders that would live in Penache(sp) communities? 
>They also have influanced them as well...  Linguists are finding some words
>in Penache Languages that may have come from Hebrew & Yiddish...  So the RC
>& Protestants were not the only ones there...  *weg*

  Sounds interesting, although the neutralization of the US aboriginals
isn't a subject I'm terribly familiar with.

>>  i.e., I don't know :)  Was there genuinely such a thing as a secular
>> anything in the Americas in 1830?
>
>Very few... 

  Which begs the question of whether the current Western tendency
favouring secularism will survive post-I.W. and/or into the 3I. The
I.W. period (and later RoM/Solomani philosophy) could well have been
an encouragement for all sorts of New Age types of thinking

  We know that Aslan, K'Kree, and Droyne cultures have strong mystical
underpinnings, and doubtless at least some human worlds, but what is the
overall feeling of the 3I (official or otherwise) and is there a detectable
trend towards one or the other extreme?

  FWIW, the Psionics Suppressions could very well have seen a re-emphasis
on rationalism (secular or not - but a reduced tolerance for mushy-headed
flakiness in general - like trading in derivatives? :> ), and the 5FW would
not have endeared the Zho's or psi's in general to Impie society.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:05:14 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

At 11:46 AM 25/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>Actually, flying the vehicle would be quite easy, you just point the nose
>in the direction you need to go, and let the antigrav take over. Since the
>controls would be mostly automated, very little effort would be needed by
>the operator.
>
>The difficulty would be when a system fails at high altitude. With an
>airframed vehicle, all you'd need to do is fall back on a little basic
>glider skills. Vehicles without airframes better have good ejection systems.
>
        Or a big-mucking parachute.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1317
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, December 27 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1318



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Flying a grav vehicle
Attacking a Religion vs. ... ?
Re: Flying a grav vehicle
Re: World Builder's handbook
Re: World Builder's handbook
Re: Attacking a Religion vs. ... ?
Apologies
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Terrorists
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool
Re: Traveller World Building 
ADMIN: List Civilty
Re: Noble Nobility
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 
Re: Skin Suits, IMTU
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:05:14 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

At 05:07 PM 25/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Joseph, in a probably-futile attempt to get this list back on topic,
>wrote
>>How difficult is it to pilot a grav vehicle like a g-carrier or air raft?
>Pretty easy. Computerized controls (which is what you pay all that
>money for in FFS grav vehicles) of TL9+ should ensure that the grav
>vehicle is essentially perfectly stable; if you point it in a direction
>and let go of the controls it will keep going straight (probably automatically
>leveling out), as opposed to aircraft or even cars, which are at least
>slightly unstable. The hard part is probably maintaing adequate
>awareness of your environment - like other vehicles - especially at
>high speeds; fast (200 km/h+) grav vehicles may require special
>licensing and/or nav equipment and sensors.
>
>Bruce
>

        Hi, Bruce!
        I always thought that G-Vehicles were controller like snazzier
helicopters...  G-Vechiles basically showed up as a replacement for combat
helicopters, so I would presume that they would have tried to allow the
crews to transition easily....  So the collective, elavtor, etc are probably
all there.  I *think* the Apache can do 300 knots wide open (500+kph) so the
same electronics would suffice...  How fast is an F111 doing its attack runs
at NOE?  That's *now-tech* electronics and sensors in the attack/ NOE role.
I figure it wouldn't be terribly more complicated;  maybe the computer
program has a natural tendency to hover and settle if the controls aren't
acted upon for a certain amount of time.  
        The CF-18 has a similar concept;  if the pilot goes out cold (ie: no
joystick input) and altitude dips below 500, the computer takes over and
hauls for 10000 and flies figure-8s until the pilot takes control again. 
        Anyway, Just My Humble Opinion. =)

        Regards,
        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:29:59 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Attacking a Religion vs. ... ?

>> Problem with the gene pool is, there ain't no life guards.
>
>This is true...  Or else Clif would not have been born...  *weg*
>
>Well that is inbreeding for you...


Okay, so I am "the bad guy" for telling the truth about a religion from
which I received an honorable release as a full-time missionary, but then a
list long-timer accuses my ancestors of incest and it is okay?

The usual double-standard, eh?

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:26:33 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

Yeah, this possiblity is mentioned in the Darrien Alien Module.
Pre-Maghiz planetary transport was virtually all gravitic in nature. The
EM pulse knocked out all of the contragrav units, causing the vehicles
to drop like rocks. After the disaster, and as a result of the massive
loss of life, all "modern" Darrian transportation has been designed as
winged craft capable of glideing in the event the contragrav fails. 

Still, I wonder, do the Darrians require that a person demonstrate
proficency at gliding in order to get an operator's licence? Or has this
just devolved to a qirk?

Mike Peters
Michel Vaillancourt wrote:

> >
> >The difficulty would be when a system fails at high altitude. With an
> >airframed vehicle, all you'd need to do is fall back on a little basic
> >glider skills. Vehicles without airframes better have good ejection systems.
> >
>         Or a big-mucking parachute.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:01:59 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: World Builder's handbook

  BTW, has anyone heard from Jim Cooper? His e-mail seems to be inactive,
and I've got a copy of World Builder's Handbook here for him.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:19:18 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: World Builder's handbook

In a message dated 12/26/98 5:04:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<<  BTW, has anyone heard from Jim Cooper? His e-mail seems to be inactive,
 and I've got a copy of World Builder's Handbook here for him. >>

(scavenger mode on) I don't know, but if the deal doesn't work out, I will be
glad to buy to from you (scavenger mode off)....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:03:54 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Attacking a Religion vs. ... ?

Clif,

Since I was the first to ask you and Jesse to move you discussion off
list I'd like to repy to this, this one time only. The problem wasn't
the initial argument. It was that YOU refused to remove it from the
list. Even after being politely asked to do so. Jesse, who may or may
not be as much to blame (not my call) did stop replying on list. Your,
increasingly hostile, replies were still on the list. 

Now many people recieve the list. It cost most money to recieve the mail
(connection time, phone time etc.). For you to continue with the
discussion that was, basically, of interest only to yourself, and Jesse,
showed an extreme lack of manners, and an incredible disreguard for
others. Because of this a single instance of name calling from one who
is normally a decent poster is, if not acceptable, at least excusable
behavior.

 Oh, one last request, if you are, indeed, here just to cause trouble,
possibly a mis-conception but one that YOU continue to foster, why not
go somewhere else? If you are here to discuss Traveller than do so.Now
if all you care to do is cause trouble you can flame me! I will not
reply to any off topic rant you may wish to send my way. i WILL gladly
discuss any Traveller related opinions you may have.

Mike Peters

Clif wrote:
> 
> >> Problem with the gene pool is, there ain't no life guards.
> >
> >This is true...  Or else Clif would not have been born...  *weg*
> >
> >Well that is inbreeding for you...
> 
> Okay, so I am "the bad guy" for telling the truth about a religion from
> which I received an honorable release as a full-time missionary, but then a
> list long-timer accuses my ancestors of incest and it is okay?
> 
> The usual double-standard, eh?
> 
> --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:08:00 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Apologies

I wish to apologise to the list. My last post to Clif was done in a weak
moment and should not have been sent here. Again, I'm sorry for the post
and the waste of bandwith it cased.

Mike Peters

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:34:31 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In a message dated 12/26/98 1:37:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Sapience@compuserve.com writes:
> A Traveller equivalent to AD&D World Builder's Guidebook.

In the works, for GURPS Traveller.  I'm not sure when you can expect to see it
on the shelves.

>  It should include:

Might be a bit tough to include *all* that in a 144-page book, along with
material
on the IISS.  But we'll see what can be done.

Incidentally. . .this discussion has made me think of something I ought to ask
about.

I have copies of the old Book 6, the Grand Survey/Grand Census books, the
TNE World-Tamer's Handbook, and a copy of Pocket Empires.  I *don't* have a
copy of the MT World-Builder's Handbook.  Am I missing any significant
material
that I should be aware of?  If so, is there anyone who would be willing to
sell me
a copy of the WBH, or let me *borrow* one for about three months?

(No promises that the GURPS book will resemble any of the above all that
closely, of course.  There are limits to how much of the DGP material I can
use anyway.  I do want to at least be aware of everything that's been done
along these lines for Traveller before.)

- --------------------
Jon F. Zeigler
JFZeigler@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:38:51 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorists

"MJ Dougherty" wrote:

>Guerrillas are a different can of worms. I have my own idea of
>what the difference is - guerrillas are irregular troops
>fighting a "dirty war". They may well use bombs and even attack
>"government institutions" like the post office and the income
>tax buildings, but once you start walking into pubs and
>executing random drinkers, or bombing shopping malls then you're
>no longer a soldier, you're a murderer. The moral issue is quite
>clear. I don't think I'd be comfortable with PCs who took this
>route, and I'd certainly be merciless in determining the
>security forces' response.

   Not necessarily even a dirty war. It's possible (though
difficult) to run a highly effective guerrilla campaign with very
little bloodshed.
   As for the rest, I'd agree. IMTU, terrorists are not
imprisoned for lengthy periods: They are given a speedy trial and
either released as innocent or executed immediately. [People
arrested as terrorists are seldom found innocent the first time,
and almost never the second.]
   As a GM, you can give murdered NPCs influential friends and
relatives with a well-developed sense of vengeance and give 
trigger-happy PCs interesting lives.
 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:38:46 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

>> ObTrav:  On those worlds of under one million people, how do
>> you think they keep the gene pool viable?  I mean do they
>> encourage navy & marine corps personal to come by & well, you
>> know...  Or, do they send thier children off world?  Just
>> wondering...

>I thought the minimun needed for decent genetic diversity was on
>the order of 10,000.  Any geneticists wanna correct us here?

   I don't know the figures, but the smaller and more isolated
the population, the more it is subject to genetic bottlenecks and
founder effects. You can expect to see genetic variations that
are rare or absent in most of the population to be quite common
on smaller, isolated worlds. There is also a greater range of
environments each with different selection pressures.
    I suspect that genetic mixing would tend to occur whether the
world specifically encouraged it or not. Reactions would vary,
but the "exotic spaceman lover" and  "girl in every port" would
be common themes in the TU.

    His story: [One of my girlfriends insisted on getting
married, and even then the local judge demanded a bribe of half
my savings to keep me out of jail. I couldn't get out of there
fast enough.] 
   Her story: [Well, my son is a little odd, but you see I fell
in love with a spaceman when I was young and foolish...I even
married him.  He left me a nice dowry and a living breathing
memory, but of course he never came back.  I remarried a few years
later, and my new husband raised the boy like his own flesh and
blood.]
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:48:43 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions
...
>The closest thing I can think of was the Transcendentalist movement, but I
>always thaught of them as deists...

  I thought deism was still religious as such? Sadly, I passed up
the one chance I had to get a book on the subject cheaply :(

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:36:20 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool

Legate Legion wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> ObTrav:  On those worlds of under one million people, how do you think they
> keep the gene pool viable?  I mean do they encourage navy & marine corps
> personal to come by & well, you know...  Or, do they send thier children
> off world?  Just wondering...
> 
When I read this, I got the most bizarre mental picture:

A local farmer, pointing a shotgun at an Imperial Marine, caught in the
act:  "You better sleep with _all_ my daughters, or...." [jacks slide on
shotgun]

> > Keven
> 
> Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
> ICQ # 8973001
> legate@futureone.com
> http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm
> 
> We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
> service us.  Resistance is futile.

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:46:47 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool

>When I read this, I got the most bizarre mental picture:
>
>A local farmer, pointing a shotgun at an Imperial Marine, caught in the
>act:  "You better sleep with _all_ my daughters, or...." [jacks slide on
>shotgun]


It is a very old story.  Laban was the farmer with the shotgun and Jacob was
the Marine.

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:00:40 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building 

>WBH contains:
>- a discussion of how to survey worlds, including a Planetographers
Checklist,
>contact procedures, etc
>- equipment descriptions for survey equipment,


Anyone with a copy willing to share the above information with Me?

TV

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:01:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@TanSoft.COM>
Subject: ADMIN: List Civilty

This recent lack of civilty on the list has rudly interrupted my
vacation.  I have dealt with this issue off list for those who
needed dealt with.  As with them, I'm asking everyone to remain
cool.  Remeber what this list is about.  Keep real world ism's
out and be nice to everyone.

Thanks for your cooperation, now to find those blasted chirppers
that escaped . . . .

Rob
- -- 
Rob Miracle
rwm@mpgn.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 23:09:10 EST
From: SunTsi@aol.com
Subject: Re: Noble Nobility

Some thoughts:
In the MA nobility was 'nobilified' by a form of social contract: the peasants
gave their surplus and were protected therefore. The noble went to war for his
peasants. Those were the times of the all-mighty mounted Knight.
With the decline of the Cavalry and the knight (due to the introduction of
Pikemen, Longbowmen) the importance of this diminished also. But the Nobles
retained their
status and privileges. Therefore over the next centuries the nobles either
moved on to 
new business like in England, were they became powerful Merchants or pre-
capitalists or like in France sticked to their old way of living and became
more and more parasitical [which btw was one of the triggers of the French
Revolution]. 

For the Imperial nobility I assume that it is mostly constituted of families
of great wealth and social influence (e.g. the kennedys, or Rothschilds ),
meaning that they
have a real power base and a social one (family members in important positions
etc.)
Because of the dynastical intertwixations (excuse this neologism), most
families better stick to the rules of the nobiliy (i.g. honor etc.). Another
factor are the obligations to the public: as a chief employer and political
leader the noble better have public support, or who is going to buy his
products ! And if a noble violated social norms and conventions his social
might would be destroyed (e.g. the belief in
the 'rightness' of being ruled by nobles and the trust they are given could
easily be
destroyed by ruthless exploitation of the subjects, or severe misbehaviour
(for example something like Clinton+Monica ...Ok Clinton is still in political
power, but his social/ethical power seems to be nonexistent if you know what I
mean...
Of course there are those nobles who are evil or ruthless...but to be
succesfull the noble is far better off by to meet social and political
standards...even Dulinor cared
well for HIS people...they were his powerbase after all...
Conclusion:
Nobles act noble because the society which supports them expects them to do
so.

Please comment on those theses :-)
Andreas Reimer
Post Scriptum: Its difficult to point out concepts like state philosophy in a
foreign language, so please be patient with my english...

"There are two things that are indefinite: The Universe and the stupidity of
  human beings. But Im not quite sure if the universe is."
- -Albert Einstein 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 00:54:16 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In a message dated 12/26/98 5:36:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
JFZeigler@aol.com writes:

<< 
 I have copies of the old Book 6, the Grand Survey/Grand Census books, the
 TNE World-Tamer's Handbook, and a copy of Pocket Empires.  I *don't* have a
 copy of the MT World-Builder's Handbook.  Am I missing any significant
 material
 that I should be aware of?  If so, is there anyone who would be willing to
 sell me
 a copy of the WBH, or let me *borrow* one for about three months?  >>

please, Please, PLEASE include the Donosev class scout deck plans! I think
that the MT WBH was the only source for these deckplans....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:02:58 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool

In a message dated 12/26/98 6:40:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
wombat@premier.net writes:

<< When I read this, I got the most bizarre mental picture:
 
 A local farmer, pointing a shotgun at an Imperial Marine, caught in the
 act:  "You better sleep with _all_ my daughters, or...." [jacks slide on
 shotgun]
  >>

ROFLOL!

seriously; I think that bigotry will supercede biologically based logic. On
that point; here's another Traveller thread... How many human races are there
in the Traveller universe, what they look like, how much interbreeding is
there, and the social, cultural acceptability of said interbreeding...i.e. is
there still racism?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:04:39 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool

In a message dated 12/26/98 6:52:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
brclif@digital.net writes:

<< It is a very old story.  Laban was the farmer with the shotgun and Jacob
was
 the Marine.
  >>

Not quite Clif. Laban was a con artist who wanted his eldest daughter married
first. This post is quite and improvement for you though...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:15:02 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool

It WAS the story in the sense that Laban had Jacob breed ALL of his
daughters...  whether by shotgun or by trickery.  Laban was probably out in
the boonies like some of those isolated worlds...

- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool


>In a message dated 12/26/98 6:52:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>brclif@digital.net writes:
>
><< It is a very old story.  Laban was the farmer with the shotgun and Jacob
>was
> the Marine.
>  >>
>
>Not quite Clif. Laban was a con artist who wanted his eldest daughter
married
>first. This post is quite and improvement for you though...
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:22:48 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

> From: Victor J. Raymond <raymond@macalester.edu>
> Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions
> 
> > >> Was there such a thing as a secular American Indian?
> > ...
> > >Yes.  Me.
> > 
> >  Aren't you awfully, well, how to put this, active? For a
bi-centenarian,
> > that is?        :>
> 
> Dear Steve,
>  
> Hand me my sacred walker so I can thrash you with it.  <grin>
>  
> Victor

Vic, you need, in this case the sacred FGMP-15...

<Handing you the sacred FGMP-15...>

Have fun...  And do not forget Clif...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:26:31 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 

> From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 
> > ObTrav:  On those worlds of under one million people, how do you think
they
> > keep the gene pool viable?  I mean do they encourage navy & marine
corps
> > personal to come by & well, you know...  Or, do they send thier
children
> > off world?  Just wondering...
> 
> I thought the minimun needed for decent genetic diversity was on the
order of 10,000.  Any geneticists wanna correct us here?

The only reason I ask is because in TNE they talk about 1,000,000 being the
lowest threshold for maintaining an expanding population...

> Keven

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 21:43:13 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Skin Suits, IMTU

>>The big advance will be if we ever find a *practical* means of using
>>so-called "skin suits". These replace the pressure garment, the
>>cooiling suit *and* the cooiling unit, with a form fitting elastic
>>leotard sort of garment.
>>The leotard is *not* gas tight. It relies on the fact that *skin* is
>>gas tight. The leotard merely supplies the required *pressure* on
the
>>skin to counter the internal pressure. For cooling, sweat works
>>*very* well in a vacuum. So your body can handle cooling on its own.
>>No need for artificial assistance.

Of course, you can also take about three minutes in vacuum without a
suit at all,
the limit is set by hypoxia, and you'll get some swelling from
evolution of gas,

>>The big problems with skin suits (which were first worked on in the
>>*50s*!) are two-fold. First, because the suit must fit *tightly*,
>>they are a *bear* to get on.

Actually, they are easier to get on (and off) than the hard suits,
which cannot be donned unaided. There were tests done on this, there's
an article about the Paul Webb suit ( "The Space Activity Suit",
Aerospace Medicine, 39:379, April 1968).

There seems to be no obvious reason why NASA chose the hard suit
option,  the skin suits were cheaper (about  $750 supposedly in 1980
terms) , easier to work in, less bulky, safer ( a hole was far less
catastrophic than the overpressure suits), they didn't need the fancy
joints the overpressure suits need.

The best guess is that Webb didn't have the appropriate "political"
support.

>They also require padding in a few
>places where the body is concave instead of convex.
>Otherwise they can't prevent the skin from rupturing there.

In Webb's suit they were rubberized nylon bags of specific shape. The
bags are sealed, and thus expand in a vacuum to provide the neccessary
pressures to the "concave" bits.

<snip>
>The skin suit has a hood that extends up and over the head and ears.
>Plugs are inserted into the ears with integral hearing aids that can
>connect to suit radios.  The face mask is clear semi-flexible
>material with connectors for air and radio communication.

The Webb SAS had a ring built in around the neck with a clear plastic
bubble filled with oxygen at a pressure of 170mg of Hg , just like in
all the '50s magazine covers !

>>The second problem is that the elastic material tends to lose its
>>elasticity after prolonged exposure to vacuum. That's one place
where
>>future materials will be a real help.

This was no problem in Webb's 1968 suit, the materiel is Spandex, it
was the old rubber suits of the 40's that had a brittleness problem.

>Right, that's why they're expensive, IMTU, and are specialty
>products of a few select systems.

Supposedely $750 each in 1980's dollars, but buildable by a small
metalwork shop and a seamstress given the Spandex and the plastic.

( adventure hook, stuck on a TL6 world with no suit, but a hold of
Spandex, trying to get one built in a "seamstress' shop" of the
1800's )

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 02:29:57 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool

> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
> Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool
> 
> > ObTrav:  On those worlds of under one million people, how do you think they
> > keep the gene pool viable?  I mean do they encourage navy & marine corps
> > personal to come by & well, you know...  Or, do they send thier children
> > off world?  Just wondering...
> > 
> When I read this, I got the most bizarre mental picture:

OK, but how is that more bizarre than the ones you normally get?

> A local farmer, pointing a shotgun at an Imperial Marine, caught in the
> act:  "You better sleep with _all_ my daughters, or...." [jacks slide on
> shotgun]

Works for me...  

> ------
> |    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
> |JOLT|
> |COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
> |    |
> ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1318
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, December 27 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1319



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Apologies
Re: Stealing Plotlines
Re: Traveller World Building 
Warship configuration
Re: Traveller World Building 
Re: Traveller World Building 
Re: Warship configuration
Re: Idea Stealing 
Re: Stealing Plotlines 
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool
Narrowmindedness
TML FAQ Notice
Weldos-class Strike Destroyer (GTL12)
Multi-Planet mailing lists [WAS: Narrowmindedness]
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Noble nobility
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=92donath-class?= Fast Courier=?ISO-8859-1?Q?__=28GTL12=29?=

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 02:37:58 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Apologies

> I wish to apologise to the list. My last post to Clif was done in a weak
> moment and should not have been sent here. Again, I'm sorry for the post
> and the waste of bandwith it cased.

Mike, I posted in a weak moment, that I hope lasts as long as Clif is here.
 I just cannot stand his narrowmindedness, I know I should forgive him, but
I cannot.

But, if you want it, I forgive you...  *weg*

Btw, should we not change the term "Flame" to "FGMP-15 Blast" or "Plasma
Blast"?  This is the TML after all & we do not have flame throwers, but we
do have Fusion Guns & Plasma Rifles...

> Mike Peters

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 05:42:07 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Stealing Plotlines

At 10:19 26-12-98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>"Dread Piper": a war vet comes home, tries to warn folks that their
>	world isn't all that safe, gets rejected, winds up looking for
>	forerunner artifacts in a series of lava caves (NEAT
>	background!) and having to find a way out with a bunch of
>	helpless civilians.

That's *Dark Piper*.

>And of course, the entire "Solar Queen" series.

*Sargasso of Space*, *Plague Ship*, *Voodoo Planet*, and *Postmarked the
Stars* (an interplanetary mail run), all of which were written in the '50s
and '60s, plus (so far) three new books written in the last few years.


James

- ----------     ----------     ----------     ----------
HEAVEN is where all the police are English, the mechanics
German, the lovers Greek, and the cooks French, and it's
all run by the Swiss.  HELL is where all the police are
German, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, and the
cooks English, and it's all run by the Greeks.
                      (from a t-shirt I bought in Greece)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:28:54 -0000
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building 

Anyone interested in World Building should also check out my World Builder
Deluxe program. It follows the rules for World Building detailed in the
World Builders Hamdbook, Animal Encounters, Psionic Institutes generation
from the T4 Psionic Institutes sourcebook and Economy generation from the T4
Pocket Empires sourcebook.

In the pipeline for future versions is Important World NPCs and Military
Capabilities.

Version 2 of the program is available to download from my website and
Version 2.1 is in the pipeline for an early January release.

Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@virgin.net
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 06:40:20 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Warship configuration

I inadvertantly deleted the messages in question, but there was a brief
discussion recently about hull configurations used for warships.  I
personally had always assumed that anything built under government contract
would probably be a box configuration, as that has the lowest cost
multiplier....


James
1190 days to go (but who's counting?)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 12:14:30 +0000
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building 

> 
> I have copies of the old Book 6, the Grand Survey/Grand Census books, the
> TNE World-Tamer's Handbook, and a copy of Pocket Empires.  I *don't* have a
> copy of the MT World-Builder's Handbook.  Am I missing any significant
> material that I should be aware of? 

I have Grand Census and WBH but not Grand Survey. If anyone has a copy of 
Grand Survey for sale I'd be very interested.
Judging by a comparison of Grand Census and WBH, I'd say there's probably very 
little value add when you go from GS/GC to WBH. Someone said elsewhere that 
the Donosev stuff was new ... that would make sense, since I think GS/GC were 
CT books, whereas WBH is an MT book, and therefore the ship is MT. Since the 
vehicle stuff is also MT stats this is probably also new, but you're probably 
talking about 6 pages max.

M

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 12:24:36 +0000
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building 

> I was looking through some of my old TD's the other day and ran
> across an article by Nancy Parker on adding cultural details to
> UWP's.  It reminded me of what I've heard is in WBH.  Was her
> article pretty much what eventually went into that section of WBH? 
> 
No. The culture stuff (which came from Grand Census previously) is:

Population - 
determine number and size of cities
determine social outlook - 3 vectors - progressiveness, aggressiveness, 
extensiveness
determine local customs - 6 large tables

Government -
determine structure of government
religious profile (optional!)

Law -
uniformity of law (who does the law level apply to)
legal profile (breaks down law level to 5 subcategories)

Technology -
technology profile - breaks down tech level to 14 categories

The Nancy Parker stuff is a good complement to this, although there's no 
intrinsic method to tie the two together, so any anomalies either have to be 
weeded out manually, or be subjected to the usual handwaving.

M

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 06:25:04 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Warship configuration

James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain wrote:
> 
> I inadvertantly deleted the messages in question, but there was a brief
> discussion recently about hull configurations used for warships.  I
> personally had always assumed that anything built under government contract
> would probably be a box configuration, as that has the lowest cost
> multiplier....
> 
Depends on the ship's intended function.  A warship, which requires a
lot of surface area for sensors and power plant radiators (especially
for Basic, Advanced, or Extreme Masking), may be better served with the
Wedge configuration.  Another ship, with a mission profile that requires
an Airframe hull, would be cheapest as either a Needle or Dome/Disc
configuration, and couldn't be built with a Box configuration hull.  If
the naval architect's primary concern is armor protection, then a Sphere
provides the least surface area, thus requiring less total mass of armor
to achieve a given thickness.  This then allows for reasonable maneuver
performance with less powerful drives, thus requiring less power plant,
thus being cheaper.  (BTW, this is a major factor in the Impregnable
Beach-Ball From Hell school of naval architecture.)  Keep in mind also
that, for most ships, the price of the hull is relatively insignificant,
when compared to the price of the systems within that hull.  (The
preceding applies to T4 ship construction [any system].)

Under HG, a Close Structure configuration ship (the closest one to Box)
is only partially streamlined, and thus cannot land (although it can
skim fuel from a gas giant).  Only the Needle/Wedge and Cone
configurations are fully streamlined.  Further, the Needle/Wedge
configuration is one of the best hull forms for resisting meson gun
hits.  Only Dispersed Structure and Buffered Planetoid resist meson guns
better, and neither of those are streamlined at all.

Besides, even in warship design, esthetic considerations are a concern. 
In order best to show the flag, a warship should _look_ like a warship. 
IMHO, a Wedge configuration warship presents a much more imposing
presence than does a Box ship.

> James
> 1190 days to go (but who's counting?)

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:13:13 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Idea Stealing 

> Keven Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> >Where am I stealing my ideas from these days?  Niven/Pournelle,
> >Drake, Jack L. Chalker, and of course, the late Admiral.
> 
> For me, Heinlien (before Stranger in a Strange Land). C.J.
> Cherryh. Elizabeth Moon. Bits and pieces of others (Asimov,
> Clarke, Herbert, Moressey, Norton)
> I prefere Pournelle to Niven.  Chalker is a bit too free with
> biotechnology. Admiral who?

Heinlien, of course.  And I like his stuff *mostly* before 'The Number of the 
Beast', even though I did like 'To Sail Beyond The Sunset'.

Betsy Moon you can keep.  R.L. Meluch can outwrite her any day of the week.  
And I have zero problems with Chalker's lust of biotechnology.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:15:13 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Stealing Plotlines 

> > Drake is good for plotlines.  For instance, for ideas on merc tickets, 
> > there's his Hammer's Slammers stories, and one not as famous:  Forlorn Hope, 
> > which, IMNSFBHO, is one *HELL* of a read.
> 
> I forget the title, but Drake has done a book that is basicly the
> "Jason and the Argonauts" legend with the serial numbers filed off.
> He *likes* re-writing myths. And he does a good job of it. 

'The Voyage', I think.  I know he did a sequel to 'Igniting the Reaches', but 
I haven't read it yet.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:03:34 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In a message dated 12/27/98 12:59:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:

> please, Please, PLEASE include the Donosev class scout deck plans! I think
>  that the MT WBH was the only source for these deckplans....

Nope.  They were in Grand Survey, too.  I intend to check with management
and see whether we can use them as is.

- --------------------
Jon F. Zeigler
JFZeigler@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:28:03 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com> writes:
>Yep! Now if I could only find the vault that has all of the copies of
>WHB and the DGP stuff hidden in it I'd die a happy man!

Well, Joe gave me permission to xerox out-of-print material, and as Roger
Sanger hasn't bothered to revoke it I assume it's still valid, therefore I
_could_ copy mine for you at cost.

Figure a hundred pages at 5 per page, plus $2-3 for shipping. 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:40:11 -0700
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool

>Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:38:46 -0500
>From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool
>
>Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
>
>>> ObTrav:  On those worlds of under one million people, how do
>>> you think they keep the gene pool viable?  I mean do they
>>> encourage navy & marine corps personal to come by & well, you
>>> know...  Or, do they send thier children off world?  Just
>>> wondering...
>
>>I thought the minimun needed for decent genetic diversity was on
>>the order of 10,000.  Any geneticists wanna correct us here?
>
>   I don't know the figures, but the smaller and more isolated
>the population, the more it is subject to genetic bottlenecks and
>founder effects. You can expect to see genetic variations that
>are rare or absent in most of the population to be quite common
>on smaller, isolated worlds. There is also a greater range of
>environments each with different selection pressures.

I'm not a geneticist, but I've researched this and posted the results from
time to time. Anyone who wants more detailed citations should check the
archives about five months ago.

Short answer: a controlled breeding population of 50 is sufficient for a
short (one generation) bottleneck; for 10 generations, at least 500 is
preferable. Controlled breeding means equal numbers of offspring per parent
and per generation; double the numbers (100 or 1,000) if this is not
possible. This is breeding population -- double again (approximately) to
account for normal age distributions in humans. This population is just
sufficient to avoid infertility and extinction due to inbreeding (most of
the research was done on endangered species). The final loss of genetic
variability from the original sample population is about 40-50%.

These figures improve rapidly as the population increases. By the time the
total population reaches 10,000, they don't experience any noticeable loss
of genetic variation over a couple of millenia. The comments above about
founder and selection effects are spot on, as well.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:07:19 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Narrowmindedness

Who is MORE narrowminded?  The person who holds to truth and accuracy OVER
political correctness or the person who doggedly refuses to acknowledge the
value of truth and accuracy all so that he won't offend his neighbors.  If
you find the truth offensive, maybe there is something wrong with YOUR
worldview.

[That was the second personal attack.  Mine have been references to a
religion to which the adherents of don't need to belong if they find it so
offensive to have the truth told about it.]

- --Clif

>Mike, I posted in a weak moment, that I hope lasts as long as Clif is here.
> I just cannot stand his narrowmindedness, I know I should forgive him, but
>I cannot.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:11:07 -0000
From: "Stuart C. Squibb" <scs@vectis.demon.co.uk>
Subject: TML FAQ Notice

Hi All,

Here's the contents list of the current TML FAQ. As always, comments and
suggestions welcome.

The main change has been to update the 'Obtaining BITS products in the US'
section.

This time round I'd like to request that anyone who can provide supporting
information for the 'Done to Death' section should please contact me.
Thanks.

- -= Traveller Mailing List Frequently Asked Questions  =-

Contents

Revision History (revisions.html)
  1. What is Traveller?
  2. All About The Traveller Mailing Lists
      1. How Do I Subscribe?
      2. How Do I Unsubscribe?
      3. How Do I use the List Processor?
      4. How Do I Post a message to the list?

  3. What are the etiquette rules for the lists?
  4. What subjects have been 'Done To Death' already on the TML
      1. Effects of rocks on Planets
      2. Was this Virus thing such a good idea?
      3. SDBs and the Defence of Gas Giants
      4. What is a Feudal Technocracy?
      5. Jump Torpedoes - Canon or Otherwise?
      6. Crew Structure on TNE Starships (Command-Crew.html)

  5. What is the answer to...?
      1. What's that acronym or nickname mean?
      2. How should starship minatures be painted?
      3. Is there a list of all star systems in the Imperium?
      4. What are the effects of spacing?
      5. How do Jumps less than 1 parsec work?
      6. How do I search for Traveller sites?
      7. How do I obtain BITS Traveller material?
      8. What's that strange code I see at the bottom of TML postings?

  6. What erratas are available?
  7. What internet resources are there for Traveller? (Resources.html)
  8. What Traveller related software is there? (Software.html)
  9. What did other people think of product X? (reviews.html)
  10. What products were produced for TNE? (Products.html)
  11. What products were produced for CT? (Products-CT.html)

The TML FAQ can be obtained from:

http://www.vectis.demon.co.uk/traveller/faq/tml-faq.html

or by email from:

mailto:robot@vectis.demon.co.uk?subject=send%20tmlfaq-html

for the HTML version

or

mailto:robot@vectis.demon.co.uk?subject=send%20tmlfaq-text

for the text version.

Stuart.
- ----
Stuart Squibb
Newport, Isle of Wight, England
scs@vectis.demon.co.uk
TML-FAQ: http://www.vectis.demon.co.uk/traveller/faq/tml-faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:16:56 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Weldos-class Strike Destroyer (GTL12)

Weldos-class Strike Destroyer (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

Small but tough and packing a nasty punch, the Weldos Strike Destroyer is
designed for supporting major fleet operations. Usual tactics call for 
accelerating straight towards the heart of the enemy fleet using stealth
to remain undetected as long as possible. Once noticed, the squadron
launches all missiles and fires at the best target with the spinal meson
gun. 

5000-ton USL Hull, DR 2000, PD 4, Total compartmentalization, Radical
stealth, Radical emission cloaking, Bridge, Engineering, 1963 Maneuver,
150 Jump, 1000 Fuel, 21 Staterooms, 5 Low Berths (holds 20 cryotubes), 10
Utility, Vehicle Bay (Gig, total capacity 20 tons), Sickbay, 35 cargo

Crew: 4 bridge crew, 21 engineers, 14 gunners, 2 medics
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.02 million
km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
21 405-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 33, Dmg 5dx100(2), 1/2D Rng 41635 km, MxRng
124909 km, FP 7
Spinal Meson Gun: Exp, Acc 36, Dmg 6dx10000(!), Rng 78080 km, MxRng 234240
km, FP 4243
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 31819.7 tonnes, LMass 32067.7 tonnes, Cost MCr 2451.9,
HP 216000
Performance: Accel 6.0 G, Jump 2, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume      Mass      Area      Cost    
 Crew
STRUCTURE
5000-ton hull                                 55.0       5.5  110000.0    
     
Airtight sealing                                         1.4              
     
Armour: DR2000, PD4                         4400.0      52.8              
     
Total compartmentalization                    11.0       0.1              
     
4 weapon bays                      200.0      13.0       1.3   26000.0    
  4.0
10 turrets                          10.0       4.3       0.4    8000.0    
 10.0
Radical stealth                               72.0     108.0              
     
Radical emission cloaking                     72.0     108.0              
     
DRIVE MODULES
Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2              
     
Jump drive (2 parsecs)             150.0     600.0     457.5              
  1.5
Jump tanks                        1000.0    1300.0     160.0              
     
Maneuver drive (6.0G)             1963.0    7852.0     569.3              
 19.6
WEAPON MODULES
21 405-MJ Lasers                             163.8      14.3              
     
9 sandcasters                                 45.0       2.3              
     
4 Missile Bays                              2475.2       3.4              
     
Spinal Meson Gun                  1512.0   15119.0     939.0              
     
SCREENS
Meson screen (DR1011)                7.0      35.0      15.8              
     
Nuclear damper (10 mile range)       1.0      10.0       4.0              
     
WORKSPACE MODULES
Bridge                               2.5       7.3       3.1              
  4.0
10 utility modules                  10.0     115.0       2.5              
     
20 vehicle bays                     21.0      50.0       1.5              
     
Sickbay                              1.0       0.9       0.2              
  2.0
Hold                                35.0                                  
     
Cargo                                                                     
     
ACCOMODATION MODULES
21 staterooms                       84.0      42.0       0.3              
     
Low berths for 20 cryotubes          2.5      10.0       1.1              
     
SHIPS AUXILIARIES
Carried vehicles                                                          
     
CONSUMABLES
Fuel                                                     0.3              
     
Missiles                                               335.2              
     
Sand cannisters                                          0.7              
     
TOTALS
Fully loaded & fitted out         5000.0   32709.1    2793.6  144000.0    
 41.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew       5000.0   32456.1    2451.9  144000.0    
 25.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:57:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Multi-Planet mailing lists [WAS: Narrowmindedness]

- ---Clif <brclif@digital.net> wrote:

> Who is MORE narrowminded?  The person who holds to truth 
> and accuracy OVER political correctness or the person who 
> doggedly refuses to acknowledge the value of truth and 
> accuracy all so that he won't offend his neighbors.  If
> you find the truth offensive, maybe there is something 
> wrong with YOUR worldview.
> 
> [That was the second personal attack.  Mine have been 
> references to a religion to which the adherents of don't 
> need to belong if they find it so offensive to have the 
> truth told about it.]
<sarcasm>
Pardon this intrusion into an obviously private conversation
on a distributed list. 
</sarcasm>
I don't care about who is narrow minded or if the TRUTH gets 
out. What I do care about, is that I don't subscribe to this 
list for this non-traveller blathering and finger pointing.
Find the right forum for your topic. Please take this where 
it belongs, private mail.

OB Traveller: Obviously this kind of mail list would not 
be possible in a multi-world political entity. So, they 
might exist on a planetary level. How would a list of 
folks with similar interests work this over jump distace?
Arrainge for two or more planetary lists to be updated
from X-boats bringing last weeks messages from the quilting
list on Ruie to your world and then your replies taking
a long time getting back? Or would that kind of thing not 
be worth the effort?

Terry Mixon
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 12:26:59 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

Rob Prior wrote: 

>>I don't need yet another version of FF&S: I need something to
>>help flesh out bare UWPs so I can run interesting adventures.

>Ie. you want DGP's World Builders Handbook combined with Scouts
>and TNE World Tamers.

>In the absence of a rewrite, I'd recommend all of these, plus
>the two Writers Digest books "Aliens and Alien Societies" and
> "Worldbuilding".

  I have TNE basic rules (for extended system generation); World
Tamers Handbook, and I get some useful info from Path of Tears as
well. I also have  T4 Pocket Empires and Imperial Squadrons, and
I'm trying to get my hands on Psionics Institutes (My FLGD still
had it, waiting for me to cough up the cash last time I checked.)
I use everything I have from time to time.
  Scouts and WBH are somewhat OOP, aren't they? I've seen Scouts,
but I have very little CT material and not much more MT. I think
I've read Worldbuilding (That's the one by Orson Scott Card,
isn't it?), and it has the concepts, but no mechanics.
  I used to play AD&D but gave that up some time ago. While I was
looking for published worldbuilding info I ran across the WBG
which has some nice sections on Kingdoms and Sociology, and
Cities and provinces. It gives lots of nice "Pick one or roll if
you don't care" tables, and it's integrated so you can build your
world top down or bottom up or some combination, and it will
still hang together.  Its big weaknesses are that 1) it is too
much oriented toward the fantasy multiverse of AD&D 2) it deals
strictly with low tech (TL0 3) societies, and 3) it gives too
little hard enconomic information for the would be merchants and
credheads among us.
   A further problem is that the mechanics (and sometimes
results) of all these sources are incompatible. A while ago I saw
a post from someone who had tried to scale up the economics rules
of WTH (far too cumbersome for my taste) and didn't like the
results.  And all these *still* don't fully cover the territory.
   I'm just self confident enough to offer to write the thing
using as much existing Traveller material as I can get my hands
on if someone would offer to pay me for it. <g>
(Did I hear someone say "phat chance!"?)
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 12:30:11 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Noble nobility

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>>>Some prominent lawyers are arguing against codifying rights,
>>>as once you codify something you leave gaps for smart lawyers
>>>to exploit.
>
>> Then why have written law at all? It seems easier to evade an
>> unwritten rule than one that is codified.

>Check out the concept of "common law". In essence, that's one of>the
things that juries exist for. Ditto for the way the
>"reasonable person" standard shows up all over the place in
>legal decisions.

It seems to me that "common law" depends even more on how
persuasive your lawyer is than statute law, although IANAL and I
could be wrong.

>Here we get into the difference between "rule of law" and "might
>makes right". There are a *lot* of governments who rule on the
>basis of what they can get away with rather than what the "law"
>says. And a number whose "law" was the whim of the dictator.

>So you not only have to worry about the "principles" you have to
>worry about how *seriously* they take them. Compare the *actions
>of the government of the USSR with the Soviet consitution. 

I'm not impressed by the long lifetimes of governments built on
the whim of a dictator. "Might makes right" style governments
tend to create resentments that bring down the strong man's
weaker successors in short order.  I'd take the USSR as an
example of what can happen when you try to build a stable
government on a principle of "good is what serves the party",
rather than a model for Imperial longevity.

>"Honor" has been the principle behind a number of governments.
>And it seems to work about as well as anything else.

>Heck, no need for a "religion". Check out the Code of Chivalry
>and the principles of Bushido. 

IIUC, Chivalry seems to be based on Christianity plus remnants of
Germanic and Roman warrior ethic.
Bushido is connected with Shinto (japanese religion), isn't it?

IMTU, an early Rule of Man philospher (I haven't named him yet)
studied Terran belief systems searching for ethical principles
that were common to the various religions of earth. (codes of
Chivalry and principles of Bushido would have been among those he
studied)  His writings were persuasive and reasonably well-adapted 
to the realities of Interstellar society; so much so that he was called the
24th century Confucius.
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:26:57 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=92donath-class?= Fast Courier=?ISO-8859-1?Q?__=28GTL12=29?=

Sdonath-class Fast Courier (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

Little more than a jump drive with cabin and small maneuver thrusters, the
Sdonath is commonly found carrying high-priority cargo bewteen Imperial
Core and Fringe.

100-ton USL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 1 Maneuver, 7 Jump,
60 Fuel, Stateroom, 1 Utility, 3 cargo
Crew: pilot
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.02 million
km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km

Statistics: EMass 156.4 tonnes, LMass 171.1 tonnes, Cost MCr 35.6, HP 15000
Performance: Accel 0.6 G, Jump 6, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume      Mass      Area      Cost    
 Crew
STRUCTURE
100-ton hull                                   5.0       0.5   10000.0    
     
Airtight sealing                                         0.1              
     
Armour: DR100, PD4                            20.0       0.2              
     
DRIVE MODULES
Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2              
     
Jump drive (6 parsecs)               7.0      28.0      21.4              
  0.1
Jump tanks                          60.0      78.0       9.6              
     
Maneuver drive (0.6G)                1.0       4.0       0.3              
  0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES
Bridge                               2.5       7.3       3.1              
  1.0
1 utility module                     1.0      11.5       0.3              
     
Hold                                 3.0                                  
     
Cargo                                                                     
     
ACCOMODATION MODULES
1 stateroom                          4.0       2.0       0.0              
     
CONSUMABLES
Fuel                                                     0.0              
     
TOTALS
Fully loaded & fitted out           79.5     174.5      35.6   10000.0    
  1.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew         79.5     159.5      35.6   10000.0    
  1.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1319
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, December 27 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1320



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Murpak-class Freighter  (GTL10)
TAKE IT OFF LIST!
Murbles-class Luxury Yacht  (GTL10)
Re: World Builder's handbook
Re: Stealing Plotlines 
Traveller Auction
Re: TML FAQ Notice
Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet
Defiance-class Light Cruiser (GTL12)
S'donath-class Fast Courier
Bargam-class Tramp Trader  (GTL10)
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool
Re: Warship configuration
World services

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:27:26 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Murpak-class Freighter  (GTL10)

Murpak-class Freighter  (GTL10)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

A simple cargo hauler, the Murpak is suitable for hauling low-priority
cargo fixed routes in civilized regions. This design is ubiquitous in the
Imperial COre, but is too vulnerable to pirates to be common on the Fringe.

400-ton USL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 20 Maneuver, 12 Jump,
80 Fuel, 2 Staterooms, 1 Utility, 275 cargo
Crew: 2 bridge crew, engineer
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 160000 km, Radscanner 1600 km

Statistics: EMass 391.2 tonnes, LMass 1739.2 tonnes, Cost MCr 60.8, HP
37500
Performance: Accel 0.5 G, Jump 2, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume      Mass      Area      Cost    
 Crew
STRUCTURE
400-ton hull                                  25.0       1.3   25000.0    
     
Airtight sealing                                         0.3              
     
Armour: DR100, PD4                           125.0       1.5              
     
DRIVE MODULES
Engineering module                   1.0       4.1       0.3              
     
Jump drive (2 parsecs)              12.0      48.0      37.2              
  0.5
Jump tanks                          80.0     104.0      12.8              
     
Maneuver drive (0.5G)               20.0      68.0       3.2              
  0.3
WORKSPACE MODULES
Bridge                               2.5       8.6       4.0              
  2.0
1 utility module                     1.0      11.5       0.3              
     
Hold                               275.0                                  
     
Cargo                                                                     
     
ACCOMODATION MODULES
2 staterooms                         8.0       4.8       0.0              
     
CONSUMABLES
Fuel                                                     0.0              
     
TOTALS
Fully loaded & fitted out          399.5    1774.0      60.9   25000.0    
  3.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew        399.5     399.0      60.8   25000.0    
  3.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:29:20 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: TAKE IT OFF LIST!

PLEASE! TAKE IT OFF THE D**N LIST! No more bitching about who started
what. No more snide comments. No more defending your own position.
This is the TRAVELLER MAILING LIST, not the religions bitch list.!
- -- ------------------------------------------------------------ --
   Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj 
   House for sale in Colorado Springs!
   http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:49:46 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Murbles-class Luxury Yacht  (GTL10)

Murbles-class Luxury Yacht  (GTL10)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

Perfect for a younger noble, the Murbles can carry a VIP between the stars
in style. 

200-ton SL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 11 Maneuver, 6 Jump,
40 Fuel, 14 Staterooms, 1 Utility, Vehicle Bay (Air/Raft, total capacity 4
tons), 16 cargo

Crew: pilot, engineer, 2 gunners, 3 stewards
Passengers: 10 high passengers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 160000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 349.8 tonnes, LMass 433.1 tonnes, Cost MCr 36.7, HP 24900
Performance: Accel 1.0 G, Jump 2, Air Speed 2255 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume      Mass      Area      Cost    
 Crew
STRUCTURE
200-ton streamlined hull                      15.0       1.8   15000.0    
     
Airtight sealing                                         0.2              
     
Armour: DR100, PD4                            75.0       0.9              
     
2 turrets                            2.0       1.6       0.2    1600.0    
  2.0
DRIVE MODULES
Engineering module                   1.0       4.1       0.3              
     
Jump drive (2 parsecs)               6.0      24.0      18.6              
  0.2
Jump tanks                          40.0      52.0       6.4              
     
Maneuver drive (1.0G)              11.0      37.4       1.8               
 0.2
WEAPON MODULES
3 Missile Racks                               39.0       0.1              
     
3 sandcasters                                 15.0       0.8              
     
WORKSPACE MODULES
Bridge                               2.5       8.6       4.0              
  1.0
1 utility module                     1.0      11.5       0.3              
     
4 vehicle bays                       4.2      10.0       0.3              
     
Hold                                16.0                                  
     
Cargo                                                                     
     
ACCOMODATION MODULES
14 staterooms                       56.0      33.6       0.2              
     
CUSTOM MODULES
1 Swimming Pool                     10.0      29.4       0.5              
     
1 Gymnasium                         10.0       0.5       0.5              
     
0                                                                         
     
0                                                                         
     
0                                                                         
     
0                                                                         
     
0                                                                         
     
0                                                                         
     
0                                                                         
     
0                                                                         
     
SHIPS AUXILIARIES
Carried vehicles                                                          
     
CONSUMABLES
Fuel                                                     0.0              
     
Missiles                                                 7.4              
     
Sand cannisters                                          0.2              
     
TOTALS
Fully loaded & fitted out          159.7     441.8      44.4   16600.0    
  7.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew        159.7     356.8      36.7   16600.0    
  2.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:04:28 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: World Builder's handbook

>Subject: Re: World Builder's handbook
...
><<  BTW, has anyone heard from Jim Cooper? His e-mail seems to be inactive,
> and I've got a copy of World Builder's Handbook here for him. >>
>
>(scavenger mode on) I don't know, but if the deal doesn't work out, I will be
>glad to buy to from you (scavenger mode off)....

  <thwacking rodents with a big stick mode on>
        Shoo! <thud-whack> Away!    
  <thwacking rodents with a big stick mode off>

        :>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:04:39 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Stealing Plotlines 

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Stealing Plotlines 
...
>'The Voyage', I think.  I know he did a sequel to 'Igniting the Reaches', but 
>I haven't read it yet.

  "Fireships", IIRC. Pretty good, and enough action/intrigue/character
development to suit, too. Having then read a comprehensive life of Sir
Francis Drake I could see where almost all of the events in the novel
came from; I'm quite glad that I didn't read the history first, though.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:15:35 -0500
From: "Nathan Mezel" <hotchip@bignet.net>
Subject: Traveller Auction

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE31A3.5F182240
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello List Members,

Just a quick note to let you all know I'm having an auction at ebay that =
contains many Traveller items from both GDW and DGP.

The full list can be found at =
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=3Dhotchi=
p@bignet.net

Thanks,

Nathan Mezel


- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE31A3.5F182240
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello List Members,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Just a quick note to let you all know I'm having an =
auction at=20
ebay that contains many Traveller items from both GDW and =
DGP.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The full list can be found at <A=20
href=3D"http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=3D=
hotchip@bignet.net">http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedI=
tems&amp;userid=3Dhotchip@bignet.net</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Nathan Mezel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE31A3.5F182240--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:27:49 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: TML FAQ Notice

>From: "Stuart C. Squibb" <scs@vectis.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: TML FAQ Notice
...
>Revision History (revisions.html)

  Shouldn't that be "Revisionist History"? :)
  And why no mention of the _true_ TL of the RoM, or the thirteenth
Emperor, Lero/... <thud-whack>

  Ahem. Nothing going on here, these aren't the droids you're looking for...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:49:38 -0800
From: bmac@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Imperial combat armor: The helmet

Doug Berry wrote
>The shape is good for protecting the head and neck from falling debris,
>much like the traditional fire-fighters helmet.  I always picture the space
>back there being used for a small water supply, possibly some sort of food
>concentrate, and batteries for the helmet's sensor array.

you can tell, somehow, that doug has actual infantry experience...while
armchair electronics designers like me suggested filling it with 
irrelevant and impractical electronics.

The only question is whether the armour was designed by actual infantry
or by theoreticians...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:58:39 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Defiance-class Light Cruiser (GTL12)

Defiance-class Light Cruiser (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

Glisten's current defense philosophy depends on force projection: rather
than concentrate their resources entirely on system defense botas, the
governing council has chosen to invest in several squadrons of long-range
cruisers for joint patrol operations with the Imperial Navy (thus also
guaranteeing that the Glisten Home Fleet will be kept fully informed of
any emerging hostilities). 

The Defiance cruisers are the latest class of warship commissioned under
this philosophy. While not the largest ships in the fleet, they are the
newest and competition for a berth is fierce among ambitious junior
officers. 

10000-ton USL Hull, DR 1000, PD 4, Basic stealth, Basic emission cloaking,
Hardened Command Bridge, Engineering, 1696 Maneuver, 600 Jump, 5000 Fuel,
47 Staterooms, 6 Low Berths (holds 24 cryotubes), 20 Utility, Spacedock
(holds 10 Rampart Fighters, 100 tons, door), 2 Vehicle Bays (Gig & Assault
Cutter, total capacity 50 tons), Sickbay, 218 cargo

Crew: 8 bridge crew, 22 engineers, 20 gunners, 2 medics, 10 auxiliary
crew, 31 troops
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.2 million
km
Sensors: PESA 16000 km, AESA 80000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
Spinal Meson Gun: Exp, Acc 36, Dmg 6dx10000(!), Rng 78080 km, MxRng 234240
km, FP 4243
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 40328.6 tonnes, LMass 41563.9 tonnes, Cost MCr 4193.5,
HP 352500
Performance: Accel 4.0 G, Jump 5, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume      Mass      Area      Cost    
 Crew
STRUCTURE
10000-ton hull                                85.0       8.5  170000.0    
     
Airtight sealing                                         2.3              
     
Armour: DR1000, PD4                         3400.0      40.8              
     
10 weapon bays                     500.0      32.5       3.3   65000.0    
 20.0
Basic stealth                                 58.8      17.6              
     
Basic emission cloaking                       58.8      17.6              
     
DRIVE MODULES
Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2              
     
Jump drive (5 parsecs)             600.0    2400.0    1830.0              
  6.0
Jump tanks                        5000.0    6500.0     800.0              
     
Maneuver drive (4.0G)             1696.0    6784.0     491.8              
16.10
WEAPON MODULES
10 Missile Bays                             6188.0       8.5              
     
Spinal Meson Gun                  1512.0   15119.0     939.0              
     
SCREENS
Meson screen (DR177)                 2.0      10.0       4.5              
     
Nuclear damper (10 mile range)       1.0      10.0       4.0              
     
WORKSPACE MODULES
Hardened Command Bridge              5.0      22.6      14.5              
  8.0
20 utility modules                  20.0     230.0       5.0              
     
Spacedock with 1 entrances         200.0       1.0       0.0              
     
50 vehicle bays                     52.5     125.0       3.8              
     
Sickbay                              1.0       0.9       0.2              
  2.0
Hold                               218.0                                  
     
Cargo                                                                     
     
ACCOMODATION MODULES
47 staterooms                      188.0      94.0       0.6              
     
Low berths for 24 cryotubes          3.0      12.0       1.3              
     
SHIPS AUXILIARIES
Carried ships                                                             
 10.0
Carried vehicles                                                          
     
CONSUMABLES
Fuel                                                     1.8              
     
Missiles                                               837.9              
     
TOTALS
Fully loaded & fitted out         9999.5   42395.2    5203.2  235000.0    
 93.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew       9999.5   41135.2    4193.5  235000.0    
 30.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:22:15 -0500
From: "Thomas Schoene" <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: S'donath-class Fast Courier

- ----------
> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:26:57 -0500
> From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
> Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=92donath-class?= Fast
Courier=?ISO-8859-1?Q?__=28GTL12=29?=
> 
> Sdonath-class Fast Courier (GTL12)
> Designed by Robert Prior
> 
> This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller
> 
> SHIP DESCRIPTION
> 
> Little more than a jump drive with cabin and small maneuver thrusters, the
> Sdonath is commonly found carrying high-priority cargo bewteen Imperial
> Core and Fringe.
> 
> 100-ton USL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 1 Maneuver, 7 Jump,
> 60 Fuel, Stateroom, 1 Utility, 3 cargo
> Crew: pilot
> Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.02 million km
> Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
> 
> Statistics: EMass 156.4 tonnes, LMass 171.1 tonnes, Cost MCr 35.6, HP 15000
> Performance: Accel 0.6 G, Jump 6, Air Speed 0 km/h
> 
> 
> DESIGN SPREADSHEET
> 
> Item                              Volume      Mass      Area      Cost   
>  Crew
> STRUCTURE
> 100-ton hull                                   5.0       0.5   10000.0   
>      
> Airtight sealing                                         0.1             
>      
> Armour: DR100, PD4                            20.0       0.2             
>      
> DRIVE MODULES
> Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2             

>      
> Jump drive (6 parsecs)               7.0      28.0      21.4             
>   0.1
> Jump tanks                          60.0      78.0       9.6             
>      
> Maneuver drive (0.6G)                1.0       4.0       0.3             
>   0.0
> WORKSPACE MODULES
> Bridge                               2.5       7.3       3.1             
>   1.0
> 1 utility module                     1.0      11.5       0.3             
>      
> Hold                                 3.0                                 
>      
> Cargo                                                                    
>      
> ACCOMODATION MODULES
> 1 stateroom                          4.0       2.0       0.0             
>      
> CONSUMABLES
> Fuel                                                     0.0             
>      
> TOTALS
> Fully loaded & fitted out           79.5     174.5      35.6   10000.0   
>   1.0
> Unloaded with skeleton crew         79.5     159.5      35.6   10000.0   
>   1.0

Rob, thanks for posting these designs, they are great inspiration.  This
one's got me confused, though.  Why use only 79.5 of the 100 spaces
available in the hull?  

It seems to me that what you have now is an advanced X-Boat.  If it's
really intended to carry commercial cargo on semi-scheduled runs across the
Rift, at least give it another 20 tons of cargo space and some low berths
for passengers who just can't wait or have to accompany their cargo.  That
will knock the acceleration down a bit, but that may not be an issue.

Alternatively, if it's really a fast courier, consider that it might also
have to carry VIPs or time-sensitive cargoes, in which case, its real space
acceleration may be important.  I'd suggest adding a second stateroom, four
low berths (one module), another ton of cargo to accommodate a standard
cargo container (IMTU, I plan to use the ones from the Traveller
Adventure), and as much maneuver drive as possible I think that gives a
total of 16 maneuver modules, with an approximate acceleration of 6g.   
Total cost does go up, but only by about 5 MCr, or 14 percent.  In
exchange, you get a much more flexible ship that can shave a few more hours
off a critical transit.

> (Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
> Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

Tom Schoene
TML lurker and soon to be G:T referee.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:36:17 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Bargam-class Tramp Trader  (GTL10)

Bargam-class Tramp Trader  (GTL10)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

Cheap and simple, the Bargam is commonly encountered along backwater mains
away from routes served by larger companies. 

200-ton SL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 17 Maneuver, 4 Jump,
20 Fuel, 5 Staterooms, 3 Low Berths (holds 12 cryotubes), 1 Utility, 90
cargo
Crew: pilot, engineer, 2 gunners, steward
Passengers: 4 middle passengers, 12 low passengers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 160000 km, Radscanner 1600 km

Statistics: EMass 229.1 tonnes, LMass 670.2 tonnes, Cost MCr 26.7, HP 24900
Performance: Accel 1.0 G, Jump 1, Air Speed 2804 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

Item                              Volume      Mass      Area      Cost    
 Crew
STRUCTURE
200-ton streamlined hull                      15.0       1.8   15000.0    
     
Airtight sealing                                         0.2              
     
Armour: DR100, PD4                            75.0       0.9              
     
2 turrets                            2.0       1.6       0.2    1600.0    
  2.0
DRIVE MODULES
Engineering module                   1.0       4.1       0.3              
     
Jump drive (1 parsec)                4.0      16.0      12.4              
  0.2
Jump tanks                          20.0      26.0       3.2              
     
Maneuver drive (1.0G)              17.0      57.8       2.7               
 0.3
Fuel processor module (2.5 hou       1.0                                  
     
WORKSPACE MODULES
Bridge                               2.5       8.6       4.0              
  1.0
1 utility module                     1.0      11.5       0.3              
     
Hold                                90.0                                  
     
Cargo                                                                     
     
ACCOMODATION MODULES
5 staterooms                        20.0      12.0       0.1              
     
Low berths for 12 cryotubes          1.5       6.0       0.7              
     
CONSUMABLES
Fuel                                                     0.0              
     
TOTALS
Fully loaded & fitted out          160.0     683.7      26.7   16600.0    
  5.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew        160.0     233.7      26.7   16600.0    
  2.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:29:43
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool

At 08:36 PM 12/26/98 -0600, you wrote:

>When I read this, I got the most bizarre mental picture:
>
>A local farmer, pointing a shotgun at an Imperial Marine, caught in the
>act:  "You better sleep with _all_ my daughters, or...." [jacks slide on
>shotgun]

Damn.  Ever consider running a LARP?
- --

+--------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net  |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
+--------------------------------------+
| "Oh, My God.. they killed STREPHON!  | 
|  You Bastards!!!!                    |
|                -Grand Admiral Kyle   |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:35:40
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Warship configuration

At 06:25 AM 12/27/98 -0600, you wrote:

>Depends on the ship's intended function.  A warship, which requires a
>lot of surface area for sensors and power plant radiators (especially
>for Basic, Advanced, or Extreme Masking), may be better served with the
>Wedge configuration.

There you have it.

Warships are supposed to be big shiny wedges.

(Strike up the Imperial March!)
- --

+------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+------------------------------------------+
| "or it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' | 
| "Chuck him out, the brute!"              |
| But it's "Saviour of 'is country"        |
| when the guns begin to shoot;"           |
+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:00:55 +1300
From: pbroeder@wave.co.nz
Subject: World services

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- --------------4875CC328B2BCD2E7146721B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

9) Economic structure. The trade class and TL give only a very
vague idea of what the principal industries on a world might be.
(UWP is C303422-B...Can the players expect fresh bananas if they
ever come here? What about vac suits? Spare parts for a grav
belt?) A way to estimate the volume and type of major imports and
exports and how busy the starport should be would be nice. What
are the common vocational skills?
*****************
I usually use the following to work out available services, remembering
that on low pop planets 75% of the pop. is usually close to the starport
and all the major services are.

Jonathan
New Zealand


- --------------4875CC328B2BCD2E7146721B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Population.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Population.txt"

Population

Manawahe (pop 0 )
One small hall at junction of 3 narrow, single lane roads.
Used about twice a year.

Te Mahoe (pop 1)
Small village nestled at the base of  the Matahina dam.
One school (primary only.)

Te Teko (pop 2)
Small town on a state highway. 
Contains 2 groceries, 2 fast food joints, 1 fruit shop.
1 small petrol station, a police station (1 officer) and a small bank (credit union.)
Main exports: Maize- Te Teko grain dryers association.
Stock- Te Teko stockyards.
Local school provides primary & intermediate education.

Kawerau (pop 3)
Forestry town.
 Small shopping center (25 shops), medium police station (6 officers), one national  chain store.
 2 local appliance chain stores, 3 banks, 1 post office, 1 fire station, town hall and center of local government.
Also contains 2 petrol stations, 3 garages & tire shops. Several metal fabrication and construction companies are also here. Also 1 law firm & offices of  2 govt. departments.
Exports: Processed wood products (Fletcher Challenge & Carter Holt Harvey)
One local newspaper - East bay news (weekly)
Transport- is connected by road and  rail. Sorry, Kawerau airport (grass field & windsock) is currently in service as log storage field.
Medical services: 3 doctor's practices, 2 dentists & ambulance service.
Education up to college level.

Whakatane (pop 4)
Has one factory - whakatane board mills
Large shopping district (40+ shops) plus satellite district (Kopepoe 25+ shops), 3 law firms & 1 accountant. Large police station (20+ officers), 1 stockbroker, District Courthouse, medium sized hospital, 2 post offices, 1 fire station and coastguard.
2 local papers- whakatane Beacon (3 days a week) the Weekender (weekly)
2 Radio stations- 1XX & Bayrock. (oh, all right - tourist info 88.1fm too.)
About half of all Govt. departments maintain services here.
Transport: Road, rail, Hard surfaced airport ( 2 services only), port of Whakatane (3-meter depth restriction.)
Basic education to college level, also has a small Polytechnic institute.

Rotorua (pop 5)
Tourist City.
About Whakatane x3 with all govt. departments represented.
A daily paper (Rotorua Daily post), Numerous Radio stations, a local  TV station (GTV) and national Airport.
Most large chain stores represented many smaller ones as well. Both District and high courts as well.
Also has a large Polytechnic institute and all levels of education below.

- --------------4875CC328B2BCD2E7146721B--

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1320
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, December 27 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1321



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry
Traveller Auction take 2
Micro Jumps or Insystem Transfers
Re: What UWP pop code really means
Re: Traveller World Building
Noble nobility
SPAM ALERT!
Traveller FAQ update - Your Help Requested.
Re: SPAM ALERT!
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Noble nobility
Re: TML flamefest?
Re: Scottish Daleks?
Re: World Services
Jump distance mailing list
re: Flying a Grav Vehicle
Full Crew Present
Re: Full Crew Present
RE: SPAM ALERT!
RE: SPAM ALERT!
Striker - Armoured Car (TL 8)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:03:15 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry

Well, first thing ya gotta talk to Zues.  I know this guy who knows a guy
who...


- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry


>I wrote:
>>Can anyone email me privately the names of teh Muses, especially the Muse
>>of poetry.
>>
>>Many thanks.
>>
>Got them now. Thanks to everyone who responded.
>>
>>
>>PS. Any advice on how to loose the Furies on Bill Gates and the Windows NT
>>designers would also be appreciated.
>
>Still waiting for this...
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:15:05 -0500
From: "Nathan Mezel" <hotchip@bignet.net>
Subject: Traveller Auction take 2

My apologies for posting this again but I did'nt know HTML was the DEFAULT
>:( for MS Outlook.  I am having an auction of many Traveller items  from
GDW and DGP at ebay.  The entire list can be viewed at:
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=hotchip@big
net.net

Thanks,

Nathan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 22:31:47 +0000
From: dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com
Subject: Micro Jumps or Insystem Transfers

Hi

  Does anyone have any data concerning the use of Micro
Jumps, does one of these take enough fuel to do a Jump 1
and 7days ?


  

TIA



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:34:42
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: What UWP pop code really means

>From: pbroeder@wave.co.nz

>Manawahe (pop 0 )
>One small hall at junction of 3 narrow, single lane roads.
>Used about twice a year.

Except in winter, when the local rugby team trains in the paddock next to
it. Amend pop code to 1 during rugby season.

>
>Te Mahoe (pop 1)
>Small village nestled at the base of  the Matahina dam.
>One school (primary only.)
>

Rugby field present. Probably has concrete cricket pitch at primary school.

>Te Teko (pop 2)
>Small town on a state highway. 
>Contains 2 groceries, 2 fast food joints, 1 fruit shop.
>1 small petrol station, a police station (1 officer) and a small bank
(credit union.)
>Main exports: Maize- Te Teko grain dryers association.
>Stock- Te Teko stockyards.
>Local school provides primary & intermediate education.
>

Note : If in Australia, would have a racetrack, tennis court, football
field (both sorts in Riverina/Wagga Wagga area) and a fullsized cricket
pitch. Full sized swimming pool probably present but built in '50s. In New
Zealand, so probably has several rugby fields and a single cricket field
with an astroturf cricket pitch.

>Kawerau (pop 3)
>Forestry town.
> Small shopping center (25 shops), medium police station (6 officers), one
national  chain store.
> 2 local appliance chain stores, 3 banks, 1 post office, 1 fire station,
town hall and center of local government.
>Also contains 2 petrol stations, 3 garages & tire shops. Several metal
fabrication and construction companies are also here. Also 1 law firm &
offices of  2 govt. departments.
>Exports: Processed wood products (Fletcher Challenge & Carter Holt Harvey)
>One local newspaper - East bay news (weekly)
>Transport- is connected by road and  rail. Sorry, Kawerau airport (grass
field & windsock) is currently in service as log storage field.
>Medical services: 3 doctor's practices, 2 dentists & ambulance service.
>Education up to college level.

Real cricket wickets present. Racetrack and municipal swimming pool almost
certainly present, even in New Zealand.

At least one Melbourne Cup winner probably sired in district.

Ian 'I enjoyed playing South Sydney-New Zealand, honest' Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:47:46 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

JFZeigler@aol wrote:

>> A Traveller equivalent to AD&D World Builder's Guidebook.

>In the works, for GURPS Traveller.  I'm not sure when you can
>expect to see it on the shelves.

<eyes bulging> Really???

>>  It should include:

[wish list snipped]

>Might be a bit tough to include *all* that in a 144-page book,
>along with material on the IISS.  But we'll see what can be
>done.

It's surprising what you can pack into 144 pages if you do it
right.

Is it OK if I throw in some more detailed suggestions, then?
   1) For detailing stars, update the tables that give
luminosities and themperatures for various stellar classes. TNE, 
WTH, and presumably WBG give old classes and figures.  The
temperature, luminosity, and mass of stars almost have to be
given in a table. A full length version would probably be too
long, but an abridged version would need some interpolation
rules. For the extended system, more icy moons in the outer
system.
   2) The calculation of temperatures on a planet look a bit
squirrely to me. RW world temperatures include factors for
albedo, or the amount of light reflected. Maybe you could
simplify things on the other hand by giving just one table for
atmosphere/greenhouse effect instead of two?
   I would be interested in how the base temperature varies with
season or time of day, instead of just having minima and maxima.
I don't know how well founded WTH's scheme for variation of
temperature with latitude is.
   Also, I find in myself a tendency to be *too* bound by the
rules. A reminder that RW numbers are seldom exactly as given in
the tables would be in order. Designers should feel free to vary
the factors within limits in order to fit the design concept. For
that reason, if tables are computed with a formula, give the
formula as well.
   3) Climate zones should be determined in connection with
temperature ranges and the local presence of hydrographics.
Weather might also be included along with climate.
   4) For mapping and Terrain types, I'd like to see two levels
of design. The first level would be the physical type (e.g.
plain, hilly, mountainous, cratered, or sea)  with rough
indicators of altitude or depth. Altitude modifiers based on
world gravity and weather factors.
   5) the second level would be the "ground cover" or vegetation
type. This should be determined separately and would depend on
both climate zone and physical terrain.
   6) The "terrain types" given for the animal generation tables
in TNE and T4 are a combination of physical type and ground
cover. These could be kept or even extended a little.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:50:20 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Noble nobility

SunTsi@aol.com wrote:

>Another factor are the obligations to the public: as a chief
>employer and political leader the noble better have public
>support, or who is going to buy his products ! And if a noble
>violated social norms and conventions his social might would be
>destroyed (e.g. the belief in the 'rightness' of being ruled by
>nobles and the trust they are given could easily be
>destroyed by ruthless exploitation of the subjects, or severe
>misbehaviour

>Nobles act noble because the society which supports them expects
>them to do so.

That's probably the best answer I've heard.
   How do nobles who realize this keep their children from taking
their privileges for granted, so that the next generation or few
doesn't degenerate into selfish exploiters?
   It seems to me that noble families train their children almost
from birth in both the theory and practice of "nobility", or the
conduct that is expected of them if they are to retain the
support of the people.
   It's said that there is nothing so practical as a good theory,
and so I was thinking of the moral or ethical "theory" that
guides how children are taught and trained. Of course, this
"theory" is reinforced by social expectation and as the
consequences of observance and violation of the "principles" are
seen.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:18:45 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: SPAM ALERT!

The spammers have found us...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 23:53:14 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Traveller FAQ update - Your Help Requested.

NOTE: This message can and should be crossed to any Traveller-
related mailing lists that it hasn't already been sent to - I
send to TravLang, TravTech (formerly GDW-Beta), and the TML.

I want to update (and slightly rearrange) the Traveller FAQ on
Freelance Traveller.  Your help would be appreciated.  The
following questions are being added:

- - What is Traveller?

	This one requires your help.  Certainly, everyone who plays
    it, reads it, or writes for it has their own idea - but
    there's a common thread that runs through it.  Saying
    "Traveller is a science-fiction role playing game" isn't
    really adequate; it doesn't distinguish Traveller from the
    other SFRPGs out there.

- - Who/what is GDW?

	Dates? Principals? Origins? Origins of Traveller involvement?

    What else?

- - Who/what is DGP?

	See "Who/what is GDW?"

I want to revise the following question, and reorganize the
portion of the FAQ pertaining to it:

- - What products have already been released?

	Clearly, a reference to BITS Traveller Bibliography is
    warranted here.  What doesn't it cover (i.e., what's come out
    since it was written/published)?  Especially important:
    what's in print vs. what's out of print.  My intent is to
    have separate pages for each licensee.  I also need an update
    on what BITS products are out there.

More Info Needed for this question:

- - When will [insert product here] be released?

	Can anyone point me to the GURPS Traveller release schedule? 
    Marc, any comment on T5?  Like when, and who?

BITS and SJGames - what's the 'sales territory' for SJGames?  US
only?  US/Canada?  The world except Europe?  Responsible FAQ
maintainers need to know!

General question:  What other changes, if any, should be made in
the Traveller FAQ? (if you need to check the FAQ to see what's
currently there, visit Freelance Traveller at
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller and follow the links to the
Information Center, then the FAQ.  Or, point your browser at
either http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz/infocenter/faq.html or
http://mbr-scifi.neotown.com/freetrav/infocenter/faq.html).

One last question: Should I (or someone else) go back to posting
the Traveller FAQ in rgf.{announce, misc} on a monthly basis?
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:37:00 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!

Yeah but what can we do?

At 15:18 27/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>The spammers have found us...
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 21:01:18 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In a message dated 12/27/98 5:51:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Sapience@compuserve.com writes:
> >> A Traveller equivalent to AD&D World Builder's Guidebook.
>  
>  >In the works, for GURPS Traveller.  I'm not sure when you can
>  >expect to see it on the shelves.
>  
>  <eyes bulging> Really???

Really.  Assuming Marc Miller and the folks at SJ Games don't object 
violently to the first draft when I get it to them.


>  >>  It should include:
>  
>  [wish list snipped]
>  
>  >Might be a bit tough to include *all* that in a 144-page book,
>  >along with material on the IISS.  But we'll see what can be
>  >done.
>  
>  It's surprising what you can pack into 144 pages if you do it
>  right.

Hmmmm.  Ever write a gaming supplement?

You run out of pages *fast*.  Fortunately the draft thus far seems to be
coming in on page budget without too much oversimplification.


>  Is it OK if I throw in some more detailed suggestions, then?
>     1) For detailing stars, update the tables that give
>  luminosities and themperatures for various stellar classes. TNE, 
>  WTH, and presumably WBG give old classes and figures.  The
>  temperature, luminosity, and mass of stars almost have to be
>  given in a table. A full length version would probably be too
>  long, but an abridged version would need some interpolation
>  rules. For the extended system, more icy moons in the outer
>  system.

Done.  There are actually ways to simplify this nicely, for main-
sequence stars at least, without giving up too much realism.


>     2) The calculation of temperatures on a planet look a bit
>  squirrely to me. RW world temperatures include factors for
>  albedo, or the amount of light reflected. Maybe you could
>  simplify things on the other hand by giving just one table for
>  atmosphere/greenhouse effect instead of two?

You need the albedo to do it right.  Oddly enough, I think I may have
found an error in the old average-surface-temperature formulae.  At
least my astrophysics text has a different formula. . .and the implications
of the difference aren't trivial.  I need to verify my facts, though.


>     I would be interested in how the base temperature varies with
>  season or time of day, instead of just having minima and maxima.
>  I don't know how well founded WTH's scheme for variation of
>  temperature with latitude is.

My meteorology is a bit wobbly, so I may stick close to the WTH
approach.


>     Also, I find in myself a tendency to be *too* bound by the
>  rules. A reminder that RW numbers are seldom exactly as given in
>  the tables would be in order. Designers should feel free to vary
>  the factors within limits in order to fit the design concept. For
>  that reason, if tables are computed with a formula, give the
>  formula as well.

Done, in a number of cases.  One of the biggest quarrels I always had
with the old systems was the way all stars of a given spectral class
had *exactly* the same mass, luminosity, and so on -- and all planets
in orbit 2 were at *exactly* the same distance from the primary.  Made
it a bit hard to come up with planets of a arbitrary climate type around
any star. . .


>     3) Climate zones should be determined in connection with
>  temperature ranges and the local presence of hydrographics.
>  Weather might also be included along with climate.

Working on it.


>     4) For mapping and Terrain types, I'd like to see two levels
>  of design. The first level would be the physical type (e.g.
>  plain, hilly, mountainous, cratered, or sea)  with rough
>  indicators of altitude or depth. Altitude modifiers based on
>  world gravity and weather factors.

Hey, that's a neat idea.  I think I'll use it.


>     5) the second level would be the "ground cover" or vegetation
>  type. This should be determined separately and would depend on
>  both climate zone and physical terrain.
>     6) The "terrain types" given for the animal generation tables
>  in TNE and T4 are a combination of physical type and ground
>  cover. These could be kept or even extended a little.

I'll see what I can do.  All good suggestions. . .

- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, freelance writer, amateur
historian, science fiction fan, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
JFZeigler@aol.com
"Never speak for others. You can get in enough trouble speaking for yourself."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 22:07:45 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Noble nobility

At 05:50 PM 27/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>SunTsi@aol.com wrote:
>
>>Another factor are the obligations to the public: as a chief
>>employer and political leader the noble better have public
>>support, or who is going to buy his products ! And if a noble
>>violated social norms and conventions his social might would be
>>destroyed (e.g. the belief in the 'rightness' of being ruled by
>>nobles and the trust they are given could easily be
>>destroyed by ruthless exploitation of the subjects, or severe
>>misbehaviour
>
>>Nobles act noble because the society which supports them expects
>>them to do so.
>
>That's probably the best answer I've heard.
>   How do nobles who realize this keep their children from taking
>their privileges for granted, so that the next generation or few
>doesn't degenerate into selfish exploiters?
>   It seems to me that noble families train their children almost
>from birth in both the theory and practice of "nobility", or the
>conduct that is expected of them if they are to retain the
>support of the people.
>   It's said that there is nothing so practical as a good theory,
>and so I was thinking of the moral or ethical "theory" that
>guides how children are taught and trained. Of course, this
>"theory" is reinforced by social expectation and as the
>consequences of observance and violation of the "principles" are
>seen.
>

        I am in a medieval recreation/ recreation group, and one concept you
hear a lot of is "obligee de noblesse"...  Roughly, "the Obligations of
Nobility".  Another way to put it, is that "Nobility is as Nobility does".
While the class structure makes for feeling of removal from the general
populace, one is constantly aware that actions of the one affect the lives
of the many.  How much this awareness affects ones actions is the difference
between a beloved Crown and a despised despot.  IMHO.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 18:19:20 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: TML flamefest?

>From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
>Subject: Re: TML flamefest?
...
>do they really conform? Don't know and don't care, I'm an agnostic
>boardering on heretic and they work for me!

  What, does a Traveller Agnostic not believe in the existence of
the Great Old Ones? :)

  Anyway, 1.5 meters per _square_ spares you the Comfy Chair...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 02:35:56 -0000
From: "Peter L.S. Trevor" <ptrevor.trisen@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Scottish Daleks?

Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
> Not necessarily. Wheels can get over some moderately rugged terrain.
> And there did seem to be the equivalent of old footpaths and trails. 


According to a number of sources the primary  motive  unit  of  a
Dalek is a half meter diameter  sphere  which  functions  like  a
wheel (moved using magnetic fields), with gyroscope balance units
to keep the edges of  the  shell  off  the  ground.  The  limited
levitating ability is not  documented,  but  the  fact  that  the
sphere unit cannot traverse rough ground is (thus, as preveiously
stated, even the originals must have  had  a  'secondary'  motive
unit).

I'm going to be out-of-contact for the next week ... maybe during
that time I'll try and come up with a  Dalek  design  using  Trav
rules.  Maybe I'll even come up with a RICE -style paper on  this
race.  No promises.



Regards PLST

"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people"
- - Mr Garrison, South Park

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 21:38:03 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: World Services

Jonathan wrote:

>I usually use the following to work out available services,
>remembering that on low pop planets 75% of the pop. is usually
>close to the starport and all the major services are.

[population.txt snipped]

Thanx. I'd like to work out something a little more general
purpose, but this gives me a decent idea of what to expect.
  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 21:37:59 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Jump distance mailing list

Terry Mixon wrote:

>OB Traveller: Obviously this kind of mail list would not 
>be possible in a multi-world political entity. So, they 
>might exist on a planetary level. How would a list of 
>folks with similar interests work this over jump distace?
>Arrainge for two or more planetary lists to be updated
>from X-boats bringing last weeks messages from the quilting
>list on Ruie to your world and then your replies taking
>a long time getting back? Or would that kind of thing not 
>be worth the effort?

I'd follow the 16th century scientific journal model. The early
versions resembled the digest version of a mailing list (without
the redundancy). You would have a "sponsor" in one of the larger
planets collect reports from various correspondents and issue
them in compiled form.  Another center might have its own
journal, possibly with a slightly different focus. Some people
would subscribe to more than one of them.  Each journal would
subscribe to important neighboring journals and echo or at least
mention the most important results. 
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:59:11 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Flying a Grav Vehicle

Thad Coons wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  I expect grav vehicles to be subject to more flight regulations
(minimum/maximum altitude, flight corridors, no-fly zones,
minimum and maximum speed limits) than ground vehicles. Traffic
control in urban areas would be something of a mess.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
For a basic cinematic vision of this, see _Blade Runner_. For a more
advanced version, see _The Fifth Element_.

The first had few air vehicles, you got to see flight control from inside
a police car that could fly.

_Fifth Element_ had street scenes in a megalopolis, with solid bands
of traffic moving at multiple levels, at top speed. The car chase through
these packed traffic patterns was very interesting.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 21:48:15 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Full Crew Present

I'd like to announce the completion of the Smith Family crew complement. 
Skyler Smith (middle name still under negotiation), born 3:56am Dec 27th, 7 
pounds 14.5 ounces. Barring further developments, her skills of looking cute, 
recieving cuddles and napping should round out our party's skill 
requirements.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 21:15:57 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Full Crew Present

Walter Smith wrote:
> 
> I'd like to announce the completion of the Smith Family crew complement.
> Skyler Smith (middle name still under negotiation), born 3:56am Dec 27th, 7
> pounds 14.5 ounces. Barring further developments, her skills of looking cute,
> recieving cuddles and napping should round out our party's skill
> requirements.
> 
> Walt Smith

Congratulations!  Have you determined her UPP yet?  (Don't forget to
assign a Social Standing as befits a princess....)

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:15:55 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: SPAM ALERT!

Sorry, I should have been more specific.

From: issam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM;
Subject: A Baby's Misery  

and

From: abu islam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM;
Subject: i really need your help  


douglas

- ----------
From: 	Douglas Glatz[SMTP:douglas@teleport.com]
Sent: 	Sunday, December 27, 1998 3:18 PM
To: 	'Traveller Mailing List'
Subject: 	SPAM ALERT!

The spammers have found us...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:07:37 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: RE: SPAM ALERT!

I agree, but is there anything that we can do?


At 19:15 27/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Sorry, I should have been more specific.
>
>From: issam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM;
>Subject: A Baby's Misery  
>
>and
>
>From: abu islam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM;
>Subject: i really need your help  
>
>
>douglas
>
>----------
>From: 	Douglas Glatz[SMTP:douglas@teleport.com]
>Sent: 	Sunday, December 27, 1998 3:18 PM
>To: 	'Traveller Mailing List'
>Subject: 	SPAM ALERT!
>
>The spammers have found us...
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 20:25:23 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Striker - Armoured Car (TL 8)

Armoured Car (Tech Level 8)

   The vehicle has a crew of 3 (driver, gunner, commander) and carries one
passenger.
Its turret mounts an autocannon and a medium machinegun in a single mount,
with direct fire control. Height: 1.25 m (+ turret 0.5 m). Width: 2.2 m.
Length: 4.25 m. Total Volume: 10.43 m^3. Weight: 7.0 tons. Flotation: yes.
Ground pressure = 25. Price: Cr43,465.

 Movement: Road, 189 kph/157 cm; cross-country, 38 kph/31 cm; water 9 kph/ 8 cm.
 Movement Effects on Fire: Move half or less, no effect; Move more than
half, -4 EFP.
 Armour: Chassis front, 26; chassis sides/back, 12; deck, 6; belly, 2;
turret front
24; turret sides/back, 17.
 Target Size DM's: +1 low, +1 high.
 Equipment: Sealed environment. One ton (1.0 m^3) of cargo.
 Power: 0.81 megawatt MHD turbine consumes 243 liters of fuel per hour; fuel
capacity is 651 liters, enough for 2.7 hours. P/W ratio is 94; vehicle is Light.
 Weapons: see medium machinegun on table, page 36. Basic load is 3000 rounds.

  The autocannon is single-barrel, 25mm, hyper-velocity with electric action. It
engages 4 targets, with a ROF of 40. Only a KEAP (solid shot) round is rated:

                 Effective          Long           Extreme 
2.5 cm A/C      2000 m +3 (16)  3000 m +2 (14)  4500 m +1 (12)

 (Personal armour below TL 14 is pretty irrelevant to a hit from this; if
a CT damage value were somehow desired then roughly 8D would be reasonable.
A limb hit might be subject to a limit of 4-6 D while destroying the area.)

  Rounds weigh 0.6 kg each. Only KEAP is supplied, at Cr 6 each.
Capacity is 750 rounds, enough for 18 turns of fire.


  Design notes: Yet another design without electronics; the wargame we were
playing generalized units by TL, after their other stats and PV were worked
out using the design sequences. Add whatever amuses you. The vehicle price
doesn't include ammo - add Cr 8,100 for a basic load for both weapons. The
vehicle isn't subject to catastrophic results from ammo hits, and is meant
to hunt light AFV's while using the GPMG to discourage stalkers.

  It's pretty much intended for security or contact/courier duties rather
than serious recon or scout duties; as a straight paramilitary gun-carrier
no more than two occupants would be necessary.

  As the chassis ("low") profile is over four times greater than the turret
("high") this might be a good unit to rate as +0 high - the target is about
of man-sized area, and smaller vertically.

  If the turret is de-installed (remove armament, box; remove turret casting)
then the whole can be crated up at around 1 Dt, with little bracing for 5 st.
The turret is 1.8 x 2.0, with all faces moderately sloped; the hull has only
a radical front slope.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1321
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, December 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1322



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 
Re: Striker Armoured Car
Re: Full crew present
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Full Crew Present
Re: Full Crew Present
Re: Multi-Planet mailing lists
Circle Sea PBEM - The game is afoot
Re: Warship configuration
noble nobility
[CS] Question regarding PE economics
Re: Micro Jumps or Insystem Transfers
Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry
Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry 
Re: Traveller World Building
re: Full Crew Present (OT)
Re: Scottish Daleks?
Children in Traveller
Re(2): S'donath-class Fast Courier
Re: RPGs in boot camp
(Slightly Off Topic) Exile
New Year's Toast To TML...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:28:49 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 

> On those worlds of under one million people, how 
> do you think they keep the gene pool viable?

> I thought the minimun needed for decent genetic 
> diversity was on the order of 10,000. 

Viable is a hard term.  Many populations have small
diversity and are "viable" under most definitions of
the word.  Many island populations have very little
genetic diversity and may have been formed by 
less people that you can squeeze into a mini-van.
Problems with low genetic diversity do occur, but
once the population has culled the "defects" out 
of it's gene pool it can inbreed its way to a happy
homogeneous mass of humanity.  Then again, there
are dangers on a lack of diversity.  Look at what 
happened to the Native Americans when they 
encountered European diseases.

Modern science has not hard on this issue.  Most
geneticists peg the "good breeding stock" numbers 
from 500-5000.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:54:15
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Striker Armoured Car

>From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>Subject: Striker - Armoured Car (TL 8)
>
>Armoured Car (Tech Level 8)
>
> Weapons: see medium machinegun on table, page 36. Basic load is 3000 rounds.
>
>  The autocannon is single-barrel, 25mm, hyper-velocity with electric action. It
>engages 4 targets, with a ROF of 40. Only a KEAP (solid shot) round is rated:
>

No missiles ? It's TL8, and point defense gets invented at TL9. Please
rack-mount at least 6 air-defense missiles and 4 AT missiles ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:55:29
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Full crew present

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: Full Crew Present
>
>I'd like to announce the completion of the Smith Family crew complement. 
>Skyler Smith (middle name still under negotiation), born 3:56am Dec 27th, 7 
>pounds 14.5 ounces. Barring further developments, her skills of looking
cute, 
>recieving cuddles and napping should round out our party's skill 
>requirements.

Congratulations.

How is Mum doing ?

Ian

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:43:37 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 12/24/98 9:16:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> wmacdude@concentric.net writes:
>
> << Yea Where?
>
>  With my luck down in Los Wages...
>
>  Evyn
>   >>
>
> Bingo!...Let me guess; Reno?

  No worse Carson City. Could be worse...  Ely


Evyn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 02:59:09 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Full Crew Present

At 09:48 PM 27/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I'd like to announce the completion of the Smith Family crew complement. 
>Skyler Smith (middle name still under negotiation), born 3:56am Dec 27th, 7 
>pounds 14.5 ounces. Barring further developments, her skills of looking cute, 
>recieving cuddles and napping should round out our party's skill 
>requirements.
>
>Walt Smith
>
        APPPLAUSE!
        Congratulations, Walt!  I hope all went well for everyone during the
"signing on"...  I hope that Dad-dom suits you well.

        Regards,
        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 02:15:52 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Full Crew Present

Walter Smith proudly announced:

>I'd like to announce the completion of the Smith Family crew complement.
>Skyler Smith (middle name still under negotiation), born 3:56am Dec 27th, 7
>pounds 14.5 ounces. Barring further developments, her skills of looking
cute,
>recieving cuddles and napping should round out our party's skill
>requirements.


Wow! Congratulations!

I'm very happy for all of you. How's Skyler's mother doing?


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 00:02:49 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Multi-Planet mailing lists

>From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Multi-Planet mailing lists [WAS: Narrowmindedness]
...
>OB Traveller: Obviously this kind of mail list would not 
>be possible in a multi-world political entity. So, they 
>might exist on a planetary level. How would a list of 
>folks with similar interests work this over jump distace?
>Arrainge for two or more planetary lists to be updated
>from X-boats bringing last weeks messages from the quilting
>list on Ruie to your world and then your replies taking
>a long time getting back? Or would that kind of thing not 
>be worth the effort?

  If you assume that a large group would mostly be interested in new
research rather than general discussion then most traffic on other
lists would of no real use due to the time lag.

  A sufficiently small group (and scholars or professionals in many
fields on lower pop worlds would likely count) could try and write
a report or digest on their discussion threads after they finished
with them and distribute them to nearby worlds with similar groups.

  A small group on a low pop world might be fairly close in effect to
the same type of group on a high-pop world; to keep traffic manageable
the hi-pop culture would likely have vastly differentiated lists, and
at the upper end fairly restrictive in membership. While a lower-pop
world might not have as many brilliant or elite contributors, that would
not rule out meaningful input.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:17:28 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Circle Sea PBEM - The game is afoot

Well my PE PBEM is off. As yet the players don't know who is actually playing 
(or even how many players there are). For those who are interested I intend to 
set up a section on my web site covering the game. Also there will be a (fairly) 
regular newsletter covering events in the game.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:19:49
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Warship configuration

>From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
>Subject: Warship configuration
>
>I inadvertantly deleted the messages in question, but there was a brief
>discussion recently about hull configurations used for warships.  I
>personally had always assumed that anything built under government contract
>would probably be a box configuration, as that has the lowest cost
>multiplier....

The hull is an infintessimally small proportion of the total ship cost for
most ships, even civilian ones.

In my opinion, there are two sorts of ships - the ones that minimise their
surface area (spheres), and the ones that maximise their length (needles).

You adopt a sphere if you want thickest armour for the lowest overhead, and
you adopt a needle if you want the maximum length for the biggest possible
spinal mount.

Open frame works for battlerider tenders, but they arent really warships
(you keep them wayyyyy to the rear).

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 05:41:10 EST
From: SunTsi@aol.com
Subject: noble nobility

Thad coon wrote:

>   It's said that there is nothing so practical as a good theory,
>and so I was thinking of the moral or ethical "theory" that
>guides how children are taught and trained. Of course, this
>"theory" is reinforced by social expectation and as the
>consequences of observance and violation of the "principles" are
>seen.
The theory is hinted in the T4 rulebook:
p.7 "Duty, honor and loyality:
       Interstellar society values people (human or not) it can depend on.
       Those who are loyal and faithfully serve their duty are the ones to 
       shoulder important responsibilities, and a natural nobility arises from
       those innovative leaders of society who unwaveringly and honorably
       follow the orders of their superiors."
And in MT it is stated that Nobles raise their childreen indeed to follow even
local traditions (the nobles of Cogri are blinded at birth because of local
custom etc.)
The T4 explanations is a bit to blue-eyed for me...dont forget that nobles
represent
the interests of  their subjects and sometimes most important the economy of
their
'lands' (planets). A noble has two obligations: To the Iridium Throne and to
his 'Lands'
...sometimes those interests collide...most drastic example: Withdraw of the
corridor fleet  What is the person in charge to do ? Sacrifice his Sectors and
the domain of 
denebs security and help the 'rightful'  emperor ? Or place his interests and
those
of his underlings (and of the Megacorps who bribe him ;-) ) above the war
against
the Assasin  Dulinor, being the interest of the whole imperium ?
Actually, in early Solomani history (-2700 to -2500 Imperial ) in Europe (Ill
take the Holy Roman Empire as an example) there was a constant struggle
between the Kaiser (Emperor) and the Kings, Princes and Dukes of the various
smaller states which germany was made of. In times of external threat, the
neccessity of central
power to effectively lead and most importantly equip a large army stiffened
the position of the Kaiser and a generation later the federal powers
became more powerful because of their local powerbases.
Therefore one who is loyal to the iridium throne above all is good and noble
from
the emperors view...not necessarily for his region`s ...but it is the emperor
who 
issues the nobel patents...so lot of adventure materiel here...

Thad Coon, what kind of nobility 'theory' do you search ? A set of values
which are the basis for the noble`s conduct or the exact code of behaviour,
like imperium wide
customs and oddities of noble life (like no psionics and no green hair for
nobles) ?
basis, or 

<       I am in a medieval recreation/ recreation group, and one concept you
<hear a lot of is "obligee de noblesse"...  Roughly, "the Obligations of
<Nobility".  Another way to put it, is that "Nobility is as Nobility does".
<While the class structure makes for feeling of removal from the general
<populace, one is constantly aware that actions of the one affect the lives
<of the many.  How much this awareness affects ones actions is the difference
<between a beloved Crown and a despised despot.  IMHO.
<	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
<		Michel R. Vaillancourt
<		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

To Michel Vaillancourt: Look into Survival Margin ,page 67ff for an
elaboration on the
concept of Noblesse oblige and its downfall in the rebellion era...quite
interesting.
In fact it underlines the points you made.

Andreas Reimer

"Si vis pacem, para bellum" (If you want peace, prepare for war )
     -Litany against pacifism of the Bene Gearheadists, being the namegiver
      to the beloved 9mm*19mm :-) 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:32:08 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: [CS] Question regarding PE economics

In my ongoing PE PBEM I'm tinkering with the economics system and would 
like to invite comments (Players may rest assured that any changes will not 
affect the current turn). The current ideas I'm toying with relate to trade
partners (re Finished goods trade) and the effects of surpluses (ie failing to 
spend your full budget).

Trade partners.
I'm thinking of restricting the worlds which can be counted as trade partners.
To me it makes no sense that planet Dirtball with its E class starport and 20 
inhabitants should count as a viable trade partner for planet Powerhouse with 
its A class starport and 2 billion inhabitants (trading with Dirtball should not 
increase powerhouse's GWP by 10%0. Therefore I'm thinking of putting a 
limitation on the worlds which may be considered as trade partners.

Surpluses
The accumulated surpluses in PE do not represent investments (these are 
covered in infrastructure improvements etc.) It strikes me that by failing to 
spend your full budget you are effectively taking wealth out of your economy
(a similar situation to the habit of the Archimedian Persians building up 
massive surpluses of gold). I'm thinking of having surpluses also acting as a 
negative drain on GWP like deficits, but nowhere near as severe. The rational 
behind this is that taking wealth out of the economy you create deflationary 
pressure.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 03:22:07
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Micro Jumps or Insystem Transfers

At 10:31 PM 12/27/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi
>
>  Does anyone have any data concerning the use of Micro
>Jumps, does one of these take enough fuel to do a Jump 1
>and 7days ?

Any jump, no matter what the distance, requires the standard 168 hours (+/-
10%).  An old sneaky trick is to jump to your current position, catching
the enemy by surprise as they police up the battle area.

IIRC, a micro jump does indeed require the same amount of fuel as a J-1.


- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 03:25:48
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry

At 05:03 PM 12/27/98 -0500, you wrote:

>PS. Any advice on how to loose the Furies on Bill Gates and the Windows NT
>designers would also be appreciated.

In the gay comic "Leonard & Larry", one of the characters is gay-bashed and
wakes up in heaven's waiting room, only to find that he isn't expected for
years.  The angel running the front desk complains on the phone about yet
another software glitch, and tells the being on the other end to "reserve a
nice, warm spot for Mr. Gates."

Already taken care of.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|  Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net  |
|       http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|--------------------------------------------|
| "Oscar Wilde only wishes he was this gay!" |
|                          -Mike, MST3K      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:12:27 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Off-topic Question: Greek Muse of Poetry 

> At 05:03 PM 12/27/98 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >PS. Any advice on how to loose the Furies on Bill Gates and the Windows NT
> >designers would also be appreciated.
> 
> In the gay comic "Leonard & Larry", one of the characters is gay-bashed and
> wakes up in heaven's waiting room, only to find that he isn't expected for
> years.  The angel running the front desk complains on the phone about yet
> another software glitch, and tells the being on the other end to "reserve a
> nice, warm spot for Mr. Gates."
> 
> Already taken care of.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:29:13 +1100
From: David Jaques-Watson <davidjw@pcug.org.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

Dear Folks -

Jon asked:
>I *don't* have a copy of the MT World-Builder's Handbook.  
>Am I missing any significant material that I should be aware of?

...and Thomas asked:
>>WBH contains:
>>- a discussion of how to survey worlds, including a Planetographers Checklist,
>>contact procedures, etc
>>- equipment descriptions for survey equipment,
>Anyone with a copy willing to share the above information with Me?

Hmmm, maybe, but there is a fair bit of it:

Contents of MegaTraveller World Builder's Handbook (Digest Group Publications, 1989)

Front Endpaper - IS Form 23: Detailed World Data Sheet

0.	Introduction (1 page total)
1.	Survey and Exploration (15 pages total)
	a.	Surveying Star Systems and Worlds (8 pages)
		i.	The Planetographer's Checklist
		Sidebar: - The Planetographer's Checklist
		ii.	The Holographic Survey Station (outline of survey procedures in the _Donosev_)
		Sidebar: - The IISS in the Shattered Imperium
		iii.	Survey Landing Parties
		iv.	Exploration
		v.	Landing Party Contact Procedures
		Sidebar: - IISS Field Offices
		vi.	Procedures When Direct Contact is Risky
		Sidebar: - Imperial Culture
	b.	Ranged Sensors (general descriptions) (2 pages)
		i.	EMS Sensors
		ii.	The Densitometer
		iii.	The Neutrino Sensor
		iv.	The Neural Activity Sensor
	c.	First Contact (3 pages)
		i.	Contacting a New Race
		ii.	Precontact Procedures
		iii.	Defining What Constitutes "Sentience"
		iv.	Conceptual Thought
		Sidebar: - Defining "Lifeform"
		v.	Social Structure
		vi.	Using Tools
		vii.	Once Sentience is Determined
	d.	Languagues in the Imperial Region (1 page)
		i.	A Historical and Cultural Overview
		ii.	Alien Languages
	e.	Society and Culture (1 page)
		i.	Basic Cultural Types
		ii.	Technology and Culture

2.	Survey Equipment (35 pages total)
	a.	Explanation/intro page (1 page)
		Sidebar: - Sensor Readout Panel (1 page)
	b.	Equipment Sheets (24 pages)
	c.	Vehicle sheets (5 pages)
	d.	_Donosev_-class Survey Starship (4 pages)

3.	Building a World (35 pages total)
	a.	Detailed World Design (7 pages)
		i.	Size-related Details
		ii.	Atmosphere-related Details
		iii.	Population-related Details
		iv.	Government-related Details
		v.	Law-related Details
		Sidebar: - Some Government Examples (Regina & Mora)
		vi.	Technology-related Details
		WB Tables: - Star System Orbital Zones (1 page)
		WB Tables: - Size-related Details (4 pages)
		WB Tables: - Atmosphere-related Details (5 pages)
		WB Tables: - Hydrosphere-related Details (3 pages)
		WB Tables: - Population-related Details (6 pages)
		WB Tables: - Government-related Details (4 pages)
		WB Tables: - Law-related Details (incl. Legal Profile) (1 page)
		WB Tables: - Technology-related Details (incl.Tech Profile) (4 pages)

4.	Mapping a World (5 pages total)
	Sidebar: - Regina World Map

5.	Using World Data (5 pages total)

Rear Endpaper - IS Form 21: World Map Grid (Large)

Totals:	1
	15
	35
	35
	5
	5
	-----
	96 pages (whew! I counted correctly! ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:39:59 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Full Crew Present (OT)

Thank you all for the many kind responses.

In response to some inquiries:

Dad-hood seems to suit me, Skyler is my third "recruit" - and
(as far as we're planning) the last. Grandkids (in twenty years
or so) are another matter, of course. :) 

My wife is doing fine. A little tired, but both her and our new addition
are resting comfortably.

Skyler's UPP is still under investigation, but her Social Standing (at
least in the eyes of her parents and grandparents) is a definite
F tending towards G. Out of eight children sired by my brothers
and I, Skyler is only the second of the female persuasion.

Her social standing in the eyes of her eldest (five year old) brother
may be a bit lower..."Daddy, are there still more boys than girls in
our family? No, I mean our whole (extended) family..." :o)

Thanks again...

Walt Smith (CO)
Theresa Smith (XO, or One actually Running Things)
Lucas, Gavin and Skyler (TML'ers in Training)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:52:43 +1100
From: David Jaques-Watson <davidjw@pcug.org.au>
Subject: Re: Scottish Daleks?

Dear Folks -

Peter wrote:
>I'm going to be out-of-contact for the next week ... maybe during
>that time I'll try and come up with a  Dalek  design  using  Trav
>rules.

PLEASE! This might spare me the trouble of creating the companion pieces for
K-9!

(One of the PC's in my AD&D-based Trav campaign is a skilled robot designer,
Derek, who also happens to be an insane looney. His greatest ambition is to see
"The Day of the Dereks"... ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:54:07 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Children in Traveller

During a recent "kids in space" thread, I recall someone mentioning that
children would take up some fraction of the space, air, and life support 
requirements that an adult would require.

As a parent, I have some evidence to the contrary:

1) My car can easily fit three adults in the back seat, including the 
equipment such adults often carry (purses, bookbags full of gaming 
manuals, etc).

Three children, including two car seats, a large bag of diapers, snacks,
spare clothes, small toys, etc - the minimum equipment to leave the house
with the little ones - fill both back seat and trunk to overflowing.

My five-year old is also perfectly capable of occupying as much living
space as an adult, with his capability to cover tables with coloring paper,
rooms with toy spaceships, and shelves with all manner of books. His
ability to share some toys with his father helps somewhat.

2) My five-year old and one-year old will devour, at a sitting, nearly as
much or more food (each) as I do. Further, their water requirements
frequently exceed my own - ranging from bathwater enough to flood 
the bathing room to a needed glass of water (often at night, and just
as the wife and I were practicing our liaison skills).

Furthermore, once my kids enter their pre-teen years, getting two of them
to share the same stateroom will certainly be more stressful than
having your Free Trader attacked by Vargr corsairs.

Children may take up some fraction of the space, life support, and other
life-support requirements of an adult. IMO, the fraction is somewhat higher
than 1/1.

<G>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:45:44 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re(2): S'donath-class Fast Courier

"Thomas Schoene" <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>Rob, thanks for posting these designs, they are great inspiration.  This
>one's got me confused, though.  Why use only 79.5 of the 100 spaces
>available in the hull?  

Thanks, you've just indirectly identified another bug. One of the
component's isn't being totalled correctly. I'll repost a corrected design.

In the meantime, you canfind these (and more RPG stuff) at:

www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9135

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:55:33 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

At 11:22 AM 12/23/98 -0700, you wrote:
>No, each unique combination is assigned a number, as in the table below:
>
>value	|1	2	3	4	5	6
>--------------------------------------------------
>penny	|t	h	h	t	t	h
>nickle	|t	t	h	t	h	h
>dime	|t	t	t	h	h	h
>

What about ?

penny =  t  h
nickle = h  t
dime =   t  h

Three binary digits have 8 posible values.  111 base 2 = 7

A d6 is easy to make.  Clay, wax or a suger cube will do in a pinch.  Carved
wood will work nicely.  Why use coins that produce odd results.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:23:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Storm <kahn265@yahoo.com>
Subject: (Slightly Off Topic) Exile

A couple years ago, Mark Rein Hagen (Of Vampire fame) was getting
ready to release a Sci-Fi Roleplaying Game called Exile. The rules
were nasty but the setting had some intriguing characteristics.

Does anybody have a copy of this? If so, could he/she e-mail it to me,
please? (Off list of course)

Thanx in advance.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:07:31 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: New Year's Toast To TML...

Here, Here!

At 11:55PM local time on New Year's Eve, I will drink a toast to the 
"Family" of the TML, black sheep and all!  :)

Any others want to join in?

My New Year's Resolution:

To purchase T5 when it becomes available.  :)

Also, to purchase T5 Stand-Alone Entry Point: First Contact, should 
it also be available in 1999.  If not, put something together and 
propose it to Marc for consideration.

In Service and Friendship,
Jason
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1322
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, December 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1323



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Vilani System Defense During First Contact & 1st IW
Re: Holidays...
Umburko-class Subsidized Liner (GTL10)
Ariasa-class Subsidized Packet (GTL12)
Ampi-class Express Freighter (GTL12)
Wirlas-class Exploratory Trader (GTL10)
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=92donath-class?= Fast Courier=?ISO-8859-1?Q?_=28GTL12=29?= - corrected
Myrdan-class Assault Corvette (GTL12)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1319
Re: RPGs in boot camp
Re: High Guard its Product

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:16:51 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Vilani System Defense During First Contact & 1st IW

For all the Vilani experts:

What were the traditional system defense arrangements used by the
Vilani during the Ziru Sirka around the time period of First Contact
with Terra and the First Interstellar War?  Did they follow a
different system defense philosophy than that suggested by OTU
material in later periods?

Did they use SDBs?  Fighter squadrons?  Cruisers?  Marines in Vacc 
Suits, Grav Belts and Laser Rifles?

How about the backwater worlds of the Solomani Rim sector, both 
before and during the ramp-up for the Vilani-Terran conflicts?

Anyone have any specific suggestions for Barnard's Star/Ikuji during 
September of 2096AD, when the Terran starship USS Starleaper I first 
enters the system and makes contact?  [Population 7000; mining plant 
established within last ten years.]

Any input is appreciated.  In order to save bandwidth on the list, 
please feel free to respond via private mail, unless the discussion 
of such might prove interesting to the list as a whole.

My thanks,
Jason
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:12:16 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Holidays...

But you left out Ramadan...

Legate Legion wrote:
> 
> > From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> > Subject: Re: Holidays...
> >
> > > Happy Hanukkah everyone...
> > Ain't you about a week late, dood?
> 
> Its still going on...
> 
> Plus, I had to counter-balance the "Merry Chrismas" posts...
> 
> > Keven
> 
> Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
> ICQ # 8973001
> legate@futureone.com
> http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm
> 
> We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
> service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:33:29 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Umburko-class Subsidized Liner (GTL10)

Umburko-class Subsidized Liner (GTL10)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

600-ton SL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 24 Maneuver, 12 Jump,
60 Fuel, 85 Staterooms, 2 Utility, 38 cargo

Crew: 2 bridge crew, engineer, 6 stewards
Passengers: 80 high passengers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 160000 km, Radscanner 1600 km

Statistics: EMass 615.0 tonnes, LMass 801.3 tonnes, Cost MCr 62.3, HP 45000
Performance: Accel 1.2 G, Jump 1, Air Speed 2478 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
600-ton streamlined hull         (480.0)      30.0       3.6   30000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       0.3       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR100, PD4                   0.0     150.0       1.8       0.0      0.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       4.1       0.3       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (1 parsec)               12.0      48.0      37.2       0.0      0.5
Jump tanks                          60.0      78.0       9.6       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (1.2G)               24.0      81.6       3.8       0.0      0.4
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Bridge                               2.5       8.6       4.0       0.0      2.0
2 utility modules                    2.0      23.0       0.6       0.0      0.0
Hold                                38.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Cargo                             (38.0)   (190.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
85 staterooms                      340.0     204.0       1.0       0.0      0.0
CONSUMABLES                       Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                              (60.0)       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out          479.5     817.3      62.3   30000.0      9.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew        479.5     627.3      62.3   30000.0      3.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:33:50 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Ariasa-class Subsidized Packet (GTL12)

Ariasa-class Subsidized Packet (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

400-ton SL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 10 Maneuver, 20 Jump,
160 Fuel, 7 Staterooms, Low Berth (holds 4 cryotubes), 1 Utility, 95 cargo

Crew: 2 bridge crew, engineer, 2 gunners, steward
Passengers: 8 middle passengers, 4 low passengers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.02 million
km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km

Statistics: EMass 474.4 tonnes, LMass 940.0 tonnes, Cost MCr 98.2, HP 39900
Performance: Accel 1.0 G, Jump 4, Air Speed 2686 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
400-ton streamlined hull         (320.0)      12.5       3.0   25000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       0.3       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR100, PD4                   0.0      50.0       0.6       0.0      0.0
2 turrets                            2.0       0.9       0.2    1600.0      2.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (4 parsecs)              20.0      80.0      61.0       0.0      0.2
Jump tanks                         160.0     208.0      25.6       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (1.0G)               10.0      40.0       2.9       0.0      0.1
WEAPON MODULES                    Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
3 Missile Racks                    (1.0)      39.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
3 sandcasters                      (1.0)      15.0       0.8       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Bridge                               2.5       7.3       3.1       0.0      2.0
1 utility module                     1.0      11.5       0.3       0.0      0.0
Hold                                95.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Cargo                             (95.0)   (475.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
7 staterooms                        28.0      14.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
Low berths for 4 cryotubes           0.5       2.0       0.2       0.0      0.0
CONSUMABLES                       Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                             (160.0)       0.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
Missiles                             0.0       0.0       5.1       0.0      0.0
Sand cannisters                      0.0       0.0       0.2       0.0      0.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out          320.0     958.8     103.6   26600.0      6.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew        320.0     483.9      98.2   26600.0      3.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:34:08 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Ampi-class Express Freighter (GTL12)

Ampi-class Express Freighter (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

5000-ton USL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 100 Maneuver, 350
Jump, 3000 Fuel, 8 Staterooms, 5 Low Berths (holds 20 cryotubes), 10
Utility, 1500 cargo

Crew: 3 bridge crew, 4 engineers, 2 gunners
Passengers: 20 low passengers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.02 million
km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km

Statistics: EMass 6084.2 tonnes, LMass 13437.1 tonnes, Cost MCr 1592.9, HP
167400
Performance: Accel 0.7 G, Jump 6, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
5000-ton hull                   (5000.0)      55.0       5.5  110000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       1.1       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR100, PD4                   0.0     220.0       2.6       0.0      0.0
2 turrets                            2.0       0.9       0.1    1600.0      2.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (6 parsecs)             350.0    1400.0    1067.5       0.0      3.5
Jump tanks                        3000.0    3900.0     480.0       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (0.7G)              100.0     400.0      29.0       0.0      1.0
WEAPON MODULES                    Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
6 Missile Racks                    (2.0)      78.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Bridge                               2.5       7.3       3.1       0.0      3.0
10 utility modules                  10.0     115.0       2.5       0.0      0.0
Hold                              1500.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Cargo                           (1500.0)  (7500.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
8 staterooms                        32.0      16.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
Low berths for 20 cryotubes          2.5      10.0       1.1       0.0      0.0
CONSUMABLES                       Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                            (3000.0)       0.0       1.0       0.0      0.0
Missiles                             0.0       0.0      10.2       0.0      0.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out         5000.0   13705.8    1604.1  111600.0      9.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew       5000.0    6205.9    1592.9  111600.0      7.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:34:25 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Wirlas-class Exploratory Trader (GTL10)

Wirlas-class Exploratory Trader (GTL10)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

2000-ton USL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Command Bridge, Engineering, 323
Maneuver, 80 Jump, 600 Fuel, 33 Staterooms, Low Berth (holds 4 cryotubes),
4 Utility, Spacedock (holds Scoutship, 100 tons, door), 3 Vehicle Bays (3
Gigs, total capacity 90 tons), Sickbay, 475 cargo

Crew: 5 bridge crew, 8 engineers, 11 gunners, 2 medics, 1 auxiliary crew,
3 vehicle crew, 15 scientists, 20 troops
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.2 million
km
Sensors: PESA 80000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
21 360-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 32, Dmg 6dx50(2), 1/2D Rng 32726 km, MxRng
98618 km, FP 4
Particle Beam Bay: Imp, Acc 33, Dmg 6dx1500, Rng 23410 km, MxRng 70220 km,
FP 63
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 3764.0 tonnes, LMass 6332.6 tonnes, Cost MCr 478.4, HP
111750
Performance: Accel 2.0 G, Jump 3, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
2000-ton hull                   (2000.0)      60.0       3.0   60000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       0.7       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR100, PD4                   0.0     300.0       3.6       0.0      0.0
1 weapon bay                        50.0       6.5       0.3    6500.0      1.0
10 turrets                          10.0       8.3       0.4    8000.0     10.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       4.1       0.3       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (3 parsecs)              80.0     320.0     248.0       0.0      3.2
Jump tanks                         600.0     780.0      96.0       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (2.0G)              323.0    1098.2      51.7       0.0      5.4
4 fuel processor modules (18.8       4.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
WEAPON MODULES                    Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
3 Missile Racks                    (1.0)      39.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
21 360-MJ Lasers                   (7.0)     252.0      21.6       0.0      0.0
6 sandcasters                      (2.0)      30.0       1.5       0.0      0.0
Particle Beam Bay                 (50.0)     467.0      22.8       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Command Bridge                       5.0      20.3       9.6       0.0      5.0
4 utility modules                    4.0      46.0       1.2       0.0      0.0
Spacedock with 1 entrances         200.0       1.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
3 Vehicle Bays holding 3 Gigs       94.5     225.0       6.8       0.0      0.0
Sickbay                              1.0       0.8       0.2       0.0      2.0
10 lab modules                      20.0     100.0      10.0       0.0     15.0
Hold                               475.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Cargo                            (475.0)  (2375.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
33 staterooms                      132.0      79.2       0.4       0.0      0.0
Low berths for 4 cryotubes           0.5       2.0       0.2       0.0      0.0
SHIPS AUXILIARIES                Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Carried ships                    (100.0)   (200.0)    (30.0)       0.0      1.0
Carried vehicles                  (90.0)    (45.0)    (18.0)       0.0      3.0
CONSUMABLES                       Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                             (600.0)       0.0       0.2       0.0      0.0
Missiles                             0.0       0.0       7.4       0.0      0.0
Sand cannisters                      0.0       0.0       0.5       0.0      0.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out         2000.0    6459.3     534.5   74500.0     65.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew       2000.0    3839.3     478.4   74500.0     13.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:35:06 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=92donath-class?= Fast Courier=?ISO-8859-1?Q?_=28GTL12=29?= - corrected

Sdonath-class Fast Courier (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

100-ton USL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 1 Maneuver, 7 Jump,
60 Fuel, 2 Staterooms, Low Berth (holds 4 cryotubes), 1 Utility, 19 cargo

Crew: pilot
Passengers: 2 middle passengers, 4 low passengers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.02 million
km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km

Statistics: EMass 160.3 tonnes, LMass 253.4 tonnes, Cost MCr 35.8, HP 15000
Performance: Accel 0.4 G, Jump 6, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
100-ton hull                     (100.0)       5.0       0.5   10000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR100, PD4                   0.0      20.0       0.2       0.0      0.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (6 parsecs)               7.0      28.0      21.4       0.0      0.1
Jump tanks                          60.0      78.0       9.6       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (0.4G)                1.0       4.0       0.3       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Bridge                               2.5       7.3       3.1       0.0      1.0
1 utility module                     1.0      11.5       0.3       0.0      0.0
Hold                                19.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Cargo                             (19.0)    (95.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
2 staterooms                         8.0       4.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Low berths for 4 cryotubes           0.5       2.0       0.2       0.0      0.0
CONSUMABLES                       Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                              (60.0)       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out          100.0     258.5      35.9   10000.0      1.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew        100.0     163.5      35.8   10000.0      1.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:34:46 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Myrdan-class Assault Corvette (GTL12)

Myrdan-class Assault Corvette (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

400-ton USL Hull, DR 400, PD 4, Basic stealth, Basic emission cloaking,
Hardened Bridge, Engineering, 70 Maneuver, 16 Jump, 120 Fuel, 31
Staterooms, 5 Low Berths (holds 20 cryotubes), 1 Utility, 2 Vehicle Bays
(2 Gigs, total capacity 40 tons), 2 Sickbays, 11 cargo

Crew: 2 bridge crew, engineer, 4 gunners, 3 medics, 2 vehicle crew, 50
troops
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.02 million
km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
6 405-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 33, Dmg 5dx100(2), 1/2D Rng 41635 km, MxRng
124909 km, FP 7
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 1031.0 tonnes, LMass 1133.10 tonnes, Cost MCr 110.8, HP
42307
Performance: Accel 6.1 G, Jump 3, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
400-ton hull                     (400.0)      12.5       1.3   25000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       0.3       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR400, PD4                   0.0     200.0       2.4       0.0      0.0
4 turrets                            4.0       1.7       0.2    3200.0      4.0
Basic stealth                        0.0       7.1       2.1       0.0      0.0
Basic emission cloaking              0.0       7.1       2.1       0.0      0.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (3 parsecs)              16.0      64.0      48.8       0.0      0.2
Jump tanks                         120.0     156.0      19.2       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (6.1G)               70.0     280.0      20.3       0.0      0.7
WEAPON MODULES                    Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
6 Missile Racks                    (2.0)      78.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
6 405-MJ Lasers                    (2.0)      46.8       4.1       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Hardened Bridge                      2.5       7.7       3.7       0.0      2.0
1 utility module                     1.0      11.5       0.3       0.0      0.0
2 Vehicle Bays holding 2 Gigs       42.0     100.0       3.0       0.0      0.0
2 sickbays                           2.0       1.7       0.4       0.0      3.0
Hold                                11.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Cargo                             (11.0)    (55.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
31 staterooms                      124.0      62.0       0.4       0.0      0.0
Low berths for 20 cryotubes          2.5      10.0       1.1       0.0      0.0
CUSTOM MODULES                    Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
2 Drop Tubes                         4.0      1.10       1.0       4.8      0.0
0                                    0.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
0                                    0.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
0                                    0.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
0                                    0.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
0                                    0.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
0                                    0.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
0                                    0.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
0                                    0.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
0                                    0.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
SHIPS AUXILIARIES                Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Carried vehicles                  (40.0)    (50.0)    (12.0)       0.0      2.0
CONSUMABLES                       Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                             (120.0)       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Missiles                             0.0       0.0      10.2       0.0      0.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out          400.0    1156.6     133.0   28204.8     62.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew        400.0    1051.6     110.8   28204.8      3.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:43:17 -0600
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1319

Announcing Astrogator 4.0

An electronic Win95/NT map of any or all Traveller maps.

Zoom, scroll, import sector files, boolean queries on system data 
and contents, system stellar data, player notes, allegiances, Psi 
Institutes, etc.  

Freeware.

Get it at

http://www.felixcafe.com/gurps

or 

http://209.39.36.25/gurps

The latter address is in case you can't resolve the first one.  My ISP 
tends to bring the site down on occasion.  What a drag.


Also

Waiting on licensing from Steve Jackson Games (its been a year 
now so it should happen any month) is GURPS Character Maker.  
Freeware.

Also waiting on licensing from Steve Jackson Games (its been a 
couple of months now so it should happen any year) GURPS 
Traveller Vehicles.  Design ships based on the rules in GURPS 
Traveller.  Print them out, assign crews, software, etc.  This also will 
be freeware.


- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)

- - Encrypt your messages!
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!

- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!

- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)

- - Fidelitas Supernus Totus, Absque Honor

- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.

Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
     http://www.felixcafe.com/

- - - -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:28:15 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

>What about ?
>
>penny =  t  h
>nickle = h  t
>dime =   t  h
>
>Three binary digits have 8 posible values.  111 base 2 = 7
>
>A d6 is easy to make.  Clay, wax or a suger cube will do in a pinch.  Carved
>wood will work nicely.  Why use coins that produce odd results.

Why the bother, just mark up any normal pencil with 1-6 on each of its side
and roll using that - this is what we used during militry training when
dice looked suspicious to the officers milling about.


/Anders Backman
Game developer and Lead Kibitzer at Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:33:01 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

>> Dom (of the revisionist T4.1 sect whole believe that T4.1's draft was the
>> but the latest incarnation of Classic Traveller, and High Guard is
>*still*
>> its product ;-) )
>
><Calling out from offstage> You said that when I showed up...
>
>
>See - only the truly faithful can stay on the path to enlightenment through
>the the Guidance of Book 5, Adventure 5 and Supplement 9. ;-)
Hah! Thats blasphemy. True guidance and wisdom can only come from the
MT-Boxed set. 
Any more is heresy, any less falls short of true divinity!

Volker
- ---
Volker A. Greimann, greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1323
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, December 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1324



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Vilani System Defense During First Contact & 1st IW
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Idea Stealing
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra
Character Generation & Paks
Re: Narrowmindedness
Re: Full Crew Present
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Noble nobility
Re: Noble nobility
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Full Crew Present
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra
Astrogator
Re: TML FAQ Notice
Re: Vilani System Defense

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:11:50 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: Vilani System Defense During First Contact & 1st IW

On Monday, 28 December 1998 11:17, Jason Kemp
[SMTP:Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us] wrote:
> For all the Vilani experts:
> 
> What were the traditional system defense arrangements used by the
> Vilani during the Ziru Sirka around the time period of First Contact
> with Terra and the First Interstellar War?  Did they follow a
> different system defense philosophy than that suggested by OTU
> material in later periods?

Not being an expert, I might ask a couple of questions.

Did they even *have* system defenses?  After 10000yrs of being the
bad-boys-on-the-block, did they even think that there was anyone to
defend against?

> How about the backwater worlds of the Solomani Rim sector, both 
> before and during the ramp-up for the Vilani-Terran conflicts?

I would say, just as a start, there were far less defenses within the
heart of the Ziru Sirka than at the edges, thus making it a kind of
'pie-crust' defense.  Even once the Terrans started to make a lot of
noise, it could take a while to get enough might there to make a
difference.

vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ                vargr1@jcn1.com
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."      dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:49:46 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

Jason Kemp posted:
>
> Here, Here!
>
> At 11:55PM local time on New Year's Eve, I will drink
> a toast to the "Family" of the TML, black sheep and
> all!  :)
>
> Any others want to join in?

I'll raise a Scout Brew to that!!

And another to Jim Vassilakos for Gal 2.4!

An' anuthor ta Stuarrt Ferris fer WBD v2!

An' an' 'nothr t' Stav..er..Stiv jak..
SJG n Lorn wismen fr GrPs:Trv...

an'..an'..

..'urp'..

(THUD)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:21:38 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

As a Wiccan, I have been skeptical to bring my religion or other 
alternative religions into my Traveller games for many of the same 
reasons that many others on the list seem uncomfortable bringing in 
the mainstream JCI religions into their games.  Some gamers are more 
comfortable in dealing with religions not their own, while others 
prefer to reserve that for Fantasy clergy in other types of games, 
and still others who wish to dodge the whole issue entirely.

With the recent discussions about various religious holidays on or 
around the Winter Solstice, I wanted to add my best wishes to 
everyone in the celebration of their Holidays, and to wish all a very 
Happy Yule!  (And, to the best of my ability, Happy Hannakuh, Merry 
Christmas, Blessed Ramadan, Season's Greetings, Happy Holidays, and 
for those to whom this applies, Happy Birthday, for what it's worth.) 
 May this Season bring you closer to that which you hold dear, and 
bless you with Peace, Joy, and Happiness.

Then I asked myself, how could this relate to Traveller?  So, not 
without some risk and intrepidation, here goes:

ObTrav:  Many of the alternative religions currently being practiced 
on this planet we call home center around an observance of the nature 
cycles of the Wheel of the Year.  Shamanism, Druidism, Wicca, et al, 
give significant honor to the passage to the seasons and the year.  
These religions observe both the Winter and Summer Solstice, and the 
Spring and Autumn Equinoxes, as well as intermediate Holidays based 
on planting and harvest times, roughly halfway between each of the 
astronomical phenomena listed before.

When Terrans go into space, first into their own solar system, and 
later, across the interstellar reaches, how do they handle the 
changes induced by new worlds, with different seasons and different 
length years?

Many of the more Traditional practitioners of these various religions 
might elect to continue to honor the cycle of their homeworld, Mother 
Earth.  Especially during initial explorations and settlements, many 
Circles or Covens (loose organizations of Wiccan practitioners, 
similar to a church congregation, who meet and practice their 
religion together) might continue to honor Terra's cycle.

More non-Traditional Circles/Covens would wish to embrace the cycle 
of their new home, and thus begin to honor the Wheel of Life of the 
new planet, as well as attune themselves more readily to the cycles 
of their new home.  In doing so, many of these Circles/Covens would 
be considered to have "gone Native" and adapted their religious 
worship to coincide with the Solstices, Equinoxes, and Seasons of 
their new home.  Thus, Terran Wicca would be different from Martian 
Wicca, or Barnard Wicca, etc.  (But then again, we are a muchly 
diversified faith, as it is.)

In other situations where time or weather/seasons have little or no 
impact on the culture (such as sector-wandering Travellers, asteroid 
belt mainworlds or tidal-locked plantets), many of these religious 
practitioners would probably fall back on their religious upbringing, 
or possibly adopt the Universal Standards used by the Imperium, which 
means falling back to Terra's rotational period as the basis for 
their religious practices.  Thus, the Wheel of Life turns completely, 
and returns to its origin, coming full circle in the passage of time.

It has quite a poetic feel to it, doesn't it?

Thank you for this opportunity to share some thoughts of particular 
significance to myself.  Should you have any comments, either 
positive or negative, I welcome them.  If the comments are not of a 
Traveller nature, I request that they be sent to me privately, so as 
not to burden this list with material not related to Traveller.

Failure to do so will not result in any comment from myself, as the 
material will not be related to the purpose of this list.  In 
addition, I ask my fellow TMLers not to respond to any unrelated 
material that might be generated on the list by this post, or any 
like it.  If this list doesn't support non-Traveller comments, then 
we can get on with the business at hand, which is to enjoy the 
game/way of life we know and love, and have come to identify as 
Traveller.

Blessed Be,
Jason
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:24:58 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In a message dated 12/27/98 4:14:47 AM Pacific Standard Time,
markw@antares.demon.co.uk writes:

<<  If anyone has a copy of 
 Grand Survey for sale I'd be very interested. >>

Ditto!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:33:07 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Idea Stealing

In a message dated 12/27/98 5:20:00 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< Betsy Moon you can keep. >>

I did like the "Tale of Paksennarion" trilogy. I loved the "bootcamp in Middle
Earth" theme, though I can't figure out how to use it in a Traveller setting,
except maybe as an off world mercenary training locals on a TL 0-1 world...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:34:37 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In a message dated 12/27/98 7:06:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
JFZeigler@aol.com writes:

<< Nope.  They were in Grand Survey, too.  I intend to check with management
 and see whether we can use them as is.
  >>

It figures; I only have Grand Census....:-(

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:36:21 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In a message dated 12/27/98 7:31:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:

<< 
 Well, Joe gave me permission to xerox out-of-print material, and as Roger
 Sanger hasn't bothered to revoke it I assume it's still valid, therefore I
 _could_ copy mine for you at cost.
 
 Figure a hundred pages at 5 per page, plus $2-3 for shipping. 
 
  >>

Could I also buy some copies?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:43:33 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

I believe I can speak for Judaism and Christianity.

Orthodox Judaism would still see Jerusalem as the center of the universe and
the standard upon which the calendar is based, while extra-terran Reform
Jews might "go with the flow" of changing the calendar, since they would
question tradition.

Christianity has had a habit of taking non-biblical holidays and making them
"christian", so they would probably try to transform native/pagan holidays
into something "christian" in an effort to bring in new converts.

I won't even go into what Mormonism would do.

Jehovah's Witnesses, depending on what had transpired since 1914, seem to
only hold up the days of their larger meetings and of Nisan 14(on their
calendar, not on the Jewish calendar--about a month off).  All else is
taboo, even birthdays.

The Pope, however, is on record as saying that if interplanetary
colonization became possible, they would try to convert alien life to Roman
Catholicism.

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:49:00 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Character Generation & Paks

You might try scrapping the career generation portion of the Traveller
character generation and actually have the character go through boot camp
and occupational training and military or other service.

- --Clif

>I did like the "Tale of Paksennarion" trilogy. I loved the "bootcamp in
Middle
>Earth" theme, though I can't figure out how to use it in a Traveller
setting,
>except maybe as an off world mercenary training locals on a TL 0-1 world...
>

Yes, the Tale of Paks trilogy was a very engrossing series.  I really came
to love that character and emotionally invest myself.  But then, I did that
in the "Split Infinity" series, also.  Something about the Paks thing had a
gritty realism to it, though, and I liked the fact that magic was something
that prompted a reaction of awe, because it was so rare, rather than being
commonplace.  Magic seems too much like cheating, to me.

Yesterday, my 20 hp Paladin became a "Little" Girl Giant's field goal kick.
By all rights I should have died, but the cleric came along in the nick of
time and saved me.  Dying in RPG's is a good thing.  Makes you feel less
invincible.

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:57:24 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Narrowmindedness

In a message dated 12/27/98 8:13:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
brclif@digital.net writes:

<< Who is MORE narrowminded?  The person who holds to truth and accuracy OVER
 political correctness or the person who doggedly refuses to acknowledge the
 value of truth and accuracy all so that he won't offend his neighbors.  If
 you find the truth offensive, maybe there is something wrong with YOUR
 worldview.
 
 [That was the second personal attack.  Mine have been references to a
 religion to which the adherents of don't need to belong if they find it so
 offensive to have the truth told about it.]
  >>

Make it three...

Clif; who's truth is this? Yours, mine, or the church's? This thread is your
interpretation of the truth; I.E.; it's your OPINION (and everybody has one,
just like a certain piece of anatomy...). Granted you may very well right
(though I doubt it as your bitterness to the LDS has clouded your
objectivity), but I really wish you would chill out already. This is a
moderated forum pertaining to Traveller RPG; NOT religious bashing. This is a
private forum, and thus overides your right to free speech. There are also
limits to free speech (try: inciting riot (bloo, help me out with this), or
shouting "FIRE" in a crowded theatre...). Take this crap to a religious forum
already, or I will be one of the first ones with an electronic tar and feather
(i.e. consider this a complaint to the moderator to dump you off the TML....)

My apologies to the list for this rant, but I can't take this anymore...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:04:44 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Full Crew Present

Walter Smith wrote:

>I'd like to announce the completion of the Smith Family crew
>complement. Skyler Smith (middle name still under negotiation),
>born 3:56am Dec 27th, 7 pounds 14.5 ounces. Barring further
>developments, her skills of looking cute,  recieving cuddles and
>napping should round out our party's skill requirements.

Look forward to rapid accumulation of Experience and
corresponding Improvement and Acquisition of Skills for the
entire party.
Congrats.
  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:04:41 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

JFZeigler responded:

>>     2) The calculation of temperatures on a planet look a bit
>>  squirrely to me. RW world temperatures include factors for
>>  albedo, or the amount of light reflected. Maybe you could
>>  simplify things on the other hand by giving just one table
for
>>  atmosphere/greenhouse effect instead of two?

>You need the albedo to do it right.  Oddly enough, I think I may
>have found an error in the old average-surface-temperature
>formulae.  At least my astrophysics text has a different
>formula...and the implications of the difference aren't
>trivial.  I need to verify my facts, though.

I seldom trust any one textbook without reservation. The formula
I use was from a recent (1996) astrophysics text. As I put it in
my spreadsheet, it goes:

TP:  Base mean planetary temperature, K
EFS: Effective stellar temperature, K.
ALB: Planetary Albedo
RS:  Stellar radius;  Km
OD:  Orbit distance;  AU

TP = EFS * ((1 - ALB) ^ 1/4) * SQRT( RS/ (2* OD * 1.496e11))

The constant is a combination of a couple of physical constants
and conversion factors. This formula is for a rapidly rotating
planet: the formula for a slowly rotating one differs by a factor
of two somewhere, IIRC. I didn't note it down.

The text mentioned an atmospheric effect as well, but I didn't
find any details on estimating it.
  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 00:17:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Noble nobility

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>>>Some prominent lawyers are arguing against codifying rights,
>>>>as once you codify something you leave gaps for smart lawyers
>>>>to exploit.
>>
>>> Then why have written law at all? It seems easier to evade an
>>> unwritten rule than one that is codified.
>
>>Check out the concept of "common law". In essence, that's one of
>>the things that juries exist for. Ditto for the way the
>>"reasonable person" standard shows up all over the place in
>>legal decisions.
>
> It seems to me that "common law" depends even more on how
> persuasive your lawyer is than statute law, although IANAL and I
> could be wrong.

No. Common law is more along the lines of all the old precedents and
the like. Court rulings *not* based on the written law become part of
the common law. And they can be hell to change... 

>>"Honor" has been the principle behind a number of governments.
>>And it seems to work about as well as anything else.
>
>>Heck, no need for a "religion". Check out the Code of Chivalry
>>and the principles of Bushido. 
>
> IIUC, Chivalry seems to be based on Christianity plus remnants of
> Germanic and Roman warrior ethic.

Chivalry does have an element of religion in it, in that you are
expected to follow your reliogion faithfully. But the chivalric code
actually came from *Islamic* culture (back when *they* were the most
advanced culture in the Western world). 

But the basic concepts are things like be kind to the weak, fight
honorably, and all that stuff about "pure love" for your lady. It fits
well with fealty type arrangements (ie verbal contracts in the form of
mutual oaths where lord and vassal each have *clearly* defined duties,
obligations, and privileges. And violation of the terms by *either*
side not only negates the contract, but tends to make others cautious
about making contracts with that party).

Yes, all the "honor" stuff actually boils down to a form of contract
law! 

> Bushido is connected with Shinto (japanese religion), isn't it?

I'm not entirely certain about that. Again it's a case of Shinto being
the predominant religion (with Bhuddism a *strong* second) of the
culture, but not necessarily being part of the code.

> IMTU, an early Rule of Man philospher (I haven't named him yet)
> studied Terran belief systems searching for ethical principles
> that were common to the various religions of earth. (codes of
> Chivalry and principles of Bushido would have been among those he
> studied)  His writings were persuasive and reasonably well-adapted 
> to the realities of Interstellar society; so much so that he was called the
> 24th century Confucius.

Confucianism leads to a *quite* different setup than what we'd think of
as "nobles". In the real world it led to the Chinese Mandarins. Which
is a system of *bureaucracies* rather than nobles. To give you an idea
how ingrained bureaucracy is into Chinese culture, their religions had
a "heavenly bureaucracy"!

The essence of becoming a Mandarin was learning a bunch of required
material and passing exams on it. Said material being Confucian
philosphy that had little or nothing to do with the requirements of the
actual *job*. Shades of the civil service exams!
  
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 00:33:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Noble nobility

In mail you write:

>>Another factor are the obligations to the public: as a chief
>>employer and political leader the noble better have public
>>support, or who is going to buy his products ! And if a noble
>>violated social norms and conventions his social might would be
>>destroyed (e.g. the belief in the 'rightness' of being ruled by
>>nobles and the trust they are given could easily be
>>destroyed by ruthless exploitation of the subjects, or severe
>>misbehaviour
>
>>Nobles act noble because the society which supports them expects
>>them to do so.
>
> That's probably the best answer I've heard.
>    How do nobles who realize this keep their children from taking
> their privileges for granted, so that the next generation or few
> doesn't degenerate into selfish exploiters?

That's where the "fealty" type system comes in. A noble swears oaths
with both his superior(s) and his subordinates. Those oaths constitute
a verbal contact that spells out what each party owes the other.
Violation by *either* party negates the oath. And if it gets around
that you've been forsworn, folks aren't going to want to enter into a
fealty relationship with you as subordinate *or* superior. 

In essence, being a noble in a fealty based system is based on your
"rep". Get a bad rep, and you've had it. 

And the fact that the oaths go *both* ways means that if the noble
starts trying to demand things from his vassals that he isn't entitled
to by the oath means that he's violated it, and they can tell him to go
piss up a rope. And getting help from other nobles to get these things
is likely to cause *their* vassals to start getting a bit uneasy. 

Also, keep in mind that things like taxes and troops are part of what's
covered by the oaths. The noble may have household troops that he pays
for *personally*. But so do his vassals, and much of his "army" will be
composed of units who "owe" him service because of their lord's oaths
to him. If he violates his oath, they can up and leave. 

So based on this model, I can see nobles being responsible for some
military units that they *personally* raise and pay for. And various
cities and the like may raise units as well. So the Baron of thus and
so may be owed fealty by the cities and towns of a region. But *they*
supply most of the troops he uses to protect the region and to do other
things. 

You can extend this sort of model to non-military areas easily enough.
For example, when applied to industry it resembles calassic
syndicalism. 

And this sort of thing is *necessary* to make any sort of system of
nobility where the nobles actually *mean* something work. Each "level"
*has* to have its own troops, otherwise the central authority can order
them to do things on threat of force because *it* controls the military.

On the other hand, this sort of localized and heirarchical military
organization is well suited to something as spread out as the Imperium.
It means that the locals will have the ability *and* authority to deal
with problems on their own.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 00:02:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In mail you write:

>    3) Climate zones should be determined in connection with
> temperature ranges and the local presence of hydrographics.
> Weather might also be included along with climate.
>    4) For mapping and Terrain types, I'd like to see two levels
> of design. The first level would be the physical type (e.g.
> plain, hilly, mountainous, cratered, or sea)  with rough
> indicators of altitude or depth. Altitude modifiers based on
> world gravity and weather factors.
>    5) the second level would be the "ground cover" or vegetation
> type. This should be determined separately and would depend on
> both climate zone and physical terrain.
>    6) The "terrain types" given for the animal generation tables
> in TNE and T4 are a combination of physical type and ground
> cover. These could be kept or even extended a little.

What you *really* have to deal with in the above are "biomes". An old
intro to ecology book I borrowed once had this chart listing all the
land-based biomes on Earth. The controlling factors are average yearly
temp and average yearly precipitation. 

When you con side that average temp is a function of *both* latitude
*and* altitude, you get interesting effects such as the way you move
from forest to scrub to alpine meadow as you move up a mountain. Just
like you go from forest to scrub to tundra as you move towards the
poles. 

The problem with this is that it means that vegetation depends on
*weather*, while weather depends to some extent on vegetation!
Remember, the Sahara *was* forest and grasslands. Overgrazing killed
the vegetation (and still is!) resulting in the spread of desert. 

You see, plants, especially trees, give off a lot of water vapor which
increase the precipitation downwind... Kill the trees and the downwind
area suffers a "drought". Which is why parts of Africa have had
essentially *continuous* droughts for the past 30 years.

Anyway, the point (and problem!). Is that a lot of this stuff is
interdependent. So much so that if I ever try doing detailed stuff I'm
seriously considering a program that starts out with some uniform
vegetation and has the computer run through a few thousand years of
weather to see how it stabilizes. Alternatively, simulate the grasses,
etc spreading from the seas and large lakes to the land and run the
simulation for a few millenia. Digging up the correct formulas (to the
extent that they are known) is a pain.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:18:35 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Full Crew Present

In a message dated 12/27/98 7:01:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU writes:

<< I'd like to announce the completion of the Smith Family crew complement. 
 Skyler Smith (middle name still under negotiation), born 3:56am Dec 27th, 7 
 pounds 14.5 ounces. Barring further developments, her skills of looking cute,
 recieving cuddles and napping should round out our party's skill 
 requirements.
 
 Walt Smith
  >>

CONGRADS!!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:31:59 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

Good post...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:33:42 -0600
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com>
Subject: Astrogator

It recently came to my attention that you couldn't download the Map 
files for the Astrogator ... Stupid me.

Well, now you can.

Note : In order to import sector files, you must have the _Base.map 
file loaded.  Otherwise your sector file wont know where to put itself.


- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)

- - Encrypt your messages!
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!

- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!

- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)

- - Fidelitas Supernus Totus, Absque Honor

- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.

Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
     http://www.felixcafe.com/

- - - -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:44:13 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: TML FAQ Notice

>Hi All,
Hi!

>This time round I'd like to request that anyone who can provide supporting
>information for the 'Done to Death' section should please contact me.
>Thanks.
[snip]

Topics to add;

Inspirational Reading (Travelleresque Fiction)
    I'd suggest soliciting a comprehensive list or culling the last few
digests.

Who has the rights to (XXX)?
    Clear up the Sanger/Sanders thing in writing.

Where can I get;
 the "Lost Keith Supplements"?
 Older Traveller Material
 New Traveller Material

What Products were produced for MT?

What Products were produced for T4?


Done to Death;

Pirates in the Imperium
    Was it Ian who had a "Declaration of Truce" on Piracy awhile back?

The Traveller Economics Model is Broken
    Ian may have a version of this discussion too.

Pete

                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 07:48:07
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Vilani System Defense

	
>From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
>Subject: Vilani System Defense During First Contact & 1st IW
>
>For all the Vilani experts:
>

Well, Andrew Moffat-Valance is busy with his PBEM, and Kenji is in Boston
and incommunicando, so I'll try and cover for them.

>What were the traditional system defense arrangements used by the
>Vilani during the Ziru Sirka around the time period of First Contact
>with Terra and the First Interstellar War?  Did they follow a
>different system defense philosophy than that suggested by OTU
>material in later periods?
>

A thing to remember is that this particular bit of the Ziru Sirkaa was a
peaceful, stable backwater before Terran contact. Sure, the Governor kept
some troops and naval vessels on hand, but they didnt expect to use em.
Think of Siberia circa 1820 ...

I'd say the philosophy of warface wouldnt have been changed much - you have
to remember that the 3I has pretty solid Vilani roots, and the Vilani are
damn stubborn.

>Did they use SDBs?  Fighter squadrons?  Cruisers?  Marines in Vacc 
>Suits, Grav Belts and Laser Rifles?
>

I think a standard defense pattern would be a number of missiles at the
base (perhaps using a reusable contragravity boost phase to get out of the
gravity well, then switching over to AND), backed up by any mobile forces
the Governor may have assigned.

I find grav belts unlikely - they are generally held to be TL12, and the
Vilani were a pretty solid TL11. You can build a manpack grav module at
TL10 under FFS2 (think of it as a grav bike sans the bike), but you also
need a doctrine that can take advantage of the tactical mobility.

Marines with laser rifles in vacc suits, yeah.

>How about the backwater worlds of the Solomani Rim sector, both 
>before and during the ramp-up for the Vilani-Terran conflicts?

Well, there is a limited amount of defense possible until you get a
population in the millions. It doesnt matter if every man is a soldier, if
there was 5000 of you to start with and they just show up with two cruisers
and a drop division.

>
>Anyone have any specific suggestions for Barnard's Star/Ikuji during 
>September of 2096AD, when the Terran starship USS Starleaper I first 
>enters the system and makes contact?  [Population 7000; mining plant 
>established within last ten years.]

My feeling is that it would be defended by a couple of militiamen with stun
rifles (even if they are Vilani, miners get rowdy). It's an outpost,
there's no Vargr within hundreds of parsecs, and there has been no
technology leakage across the border.

Ian Whitchurch	

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1324
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Subj:	Traveller-digest V1998 #1325
Date:	12/29/98 3:17:57 PM Pacific Standard Time
From:	owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com
Reply-to:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM


Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1325



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Long Night
Re: World Builder's handbook
Re: TML FAQ Notice
Re: Holidays...
Pocket Empires query
Re: TML FAQ notice
Re: [TWG] Re: HIWG Traveller Writers' Guild Digest V1 #308

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:47:18 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

At 18:19 24.12.98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 01:07 PM 24/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>All,
>>I am looking for what is considered the best window character generation
>>program on the Net. I would prefer T4 generation

For MT, ive used the Megatraveller 2:Quest for the Ancients Character
Generator when using th Computer.
I prefer generating Characters manually, though, as it allows me to "bond"
with the Character.

Volker
- ---
Volker A. Greimann, greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:13:37 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Long Night

Is there a web page on this subject or can the list fill me in?

I am wondering about a timeline for the LN and any history/background for
the Solomani rim during this period.

I am also interested in the end of the night and Solomani contact with the
3I.

TV

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:05:26 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: World Builder's handbook

In a message dated 12/27/98 11:07:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<< <thwacking rodents with a big stick mode on>
         Shoo! <thud-whack> Away!    
   <thwacking rodents with a big stick mode off>
  >>

ROTFLOL!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:21:16 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Re: TML FAQ Notice

Due to the immense amount of response on this issue, I'd like to see
a section on Recommended Musical Selections for Traveller Gaming
added to the TML FAQ.  Most of the information is collected in a
relatively select group of digests, and can be located by a search
for the appropriate subject line.  A little cut and paste, followed
by some clean-up, and voila!  An (almost) instant TML FAQ entry is
born.

Hope this helps.  In Service,
Jason
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:28:14 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Holidays...

In a message dated 12/28/98 9:23:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
gsmith@helot.arl.mil writes:

<< But you left out Ramadan... >>

I mentioned it earlier...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:00:01 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Pocket Empires query

Ok:  In the "Pocket Emperor Player Characters" section, there's an 
extremely useful table for quick generation of Diplomats and Bureaucrats
by rank.  Has anyone put together tables like that for other careers?


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 09:47:45
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: TML FAQ notice

>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: TML FAQ Notice
>
>Done to Death;
>
>Pirates in the Imperium
>    Was it Ian who had a "Declaration of Truce" on Piracy awhile back?
>

Yeah, the Sunbeard Declaration. I think one of the wilder member of the
pro-piracy faction argued against it with many ahhh innovative and
imaginitive arguments, but he was apparently kicked into line by other,
saner, members of his faction (*pulls tongue back from cheek*).

>The Traveller Economics Model is Broken
>    Ian may have a version of this discussion too.

The economics model isnt too bad, once you take Pocket Empires and kick it
into shape (base costs on population etc). It's the vanilla trade model
that really badly sucks - it neither makes sense, encourages adventure, or
makes it possible to duplicate the canon background.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:06:27 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: [TWG] Re: HIWG Traveller Writers' Guild Digest V1 #308

Bryan wrote:

>dmckinne@itds.com writes:
>> Seeing this repeated over and over again alarms me greatly.  Is this
>>  guy just reguritating his old SpaceMaster Aliens?
>	Maybe, but at least they are undergoing some changes (fixes,
>hopefully) and
>they beat the stuff printed by IG.

I disagree - Aliens Archive was one of the good books! IMO of course...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1325
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1326



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Full Crew Present
re: Full Crew Present (OT)
Classic Traveller Deckplans
Re: Noble nobility
Re: Striker Armoured Car
Re: TML FAQ notice
Re: Apologies
Re: Striker Armoured Car
Re: TML FAQ Notice
Grand Survey/Census and WBH?
Re: Narrowmindedness
Re: Bushido / Shinto
TML FAQ/Traveller FAQ
Re: RPGs in boot camp
Re: SPAM ALERT!
Re: Children in Traveller
Re: SPAM ALERT!
Re: Striker Armoured Car
Re: Children in Traveller
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra
Re: RPGs in boot camp
Re: World services
re: what UWP pop codes really mean

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:15:06 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Full Crew Present

> I'd like to announce the completion of the Smith Family crew complement.
> Skyler Smith (middle name still under negotiation), born 3:56am Dec 27th,
7
> pounds 14.5 ounces. Barring further developments, her skills of looking
cute,
> recieving cuddles and napping should round out our party's skill
> requirements.
> Walt Smith


Congratulations Walt !

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:46:55 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Full Crew Present (OT)

Hmmm, seems our new arrival's middle name (the one under negotiation)
negotiated itself into first name status. Instead of Skyler Smith, she gets
to be Tarrah Skye Smith.

Thanks again for all the good wishes.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:04:52 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Classic Traveller Deckplans

About a month ago I stumbled across a site that had numerous, if not all of
the classic traveller "published" deckplans available for download.   I
think they were PDF files.  Anyone know the URL?

Paul Schirf

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:29:02 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Noble nobility

On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 00:33:23 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
wrote:

>That's where the "fealty" type system comes in.

(big snip)

>You can extend this sort of model to non-military areas easily enough.
>For example, when applied to industry it resembles classic syndicalism. 

So you're saying that the Third Imperium is one big...
FEUDAL TECHNOCRACY!

AIIIEEEE!

RUN AWAY!

- --------------
Kelly St.Clair
kellys@efn.org

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:15:39 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Striker Armoured Car

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Striker Armoured Car
...
>No missiles ? It's TL8, and point defense gets invented at TL9. Please
>rack-mount at least 6 air-defense missiles and 4 AT missiles ...

It's not meant to be a first rate AFV, or even a serious combatant.
That, and I have real problems with some of the missile rules allowing
really dodgy designs.

  That said, I'll do a variant anyway in a day or two :)

  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:42:23 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: TML FAQ notice

Tue, 29 Dec 1998 09:47:45, Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>>Pirates in the Imperium
>>    Was it Ian who had a "Declaration of Truce" on Piracy awhile back?

>Yeah, the Sunbeard Declaration. I think one of the wilder member of the
>pro-piracy faction argued against it with many ahhh innovative and
>imaginitive arguments, but he was apparently kicked into line by other,
>saner, members of his faction (*pulls tongue back from cheek*).

Well, for the record, it wasn't a "truce" but rather an attempt
to push one "compromise".  I had some problems with part of
it but I had already put myself into a unilateral truce and
the way to let the thread die down wasn't to start rehashing
the points involved.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:42:08 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Apologies

>Btw, should we not change the term "Flame" to "FGMP-15 Blast" or "Plasma
>Blast"?  This is the TML after all & we do not have flame throwers, but we
>do have Fusion Guns & Plasma Rifles...
>
You don't? Hey, why not design one! Got some real-world stats round here
somewheres...

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:30:06 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Striker Armoured Car

The Twilight:2000 vehicle guides had lots of TL 6,7 and 8 vehicle stats,
broadly compatible with FF&S1.  I never quite got around to reverse
engineering them.

Converting them to Striker would be harder.  Maybe working them through
FF&S first might be the way to go.  

I've got my copy of Striker around now, so I might crunch a few things
through soon.  Does anyone have a Striker spreadsheet (Excel, preferably)? 
Has anyone got any thoughts on converting between Striker and the less
righteous systems?

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:46:58 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: TML FAQ Notice

Yeah, that was one of those useless threads I started...

- --Clif


Due to the immense amount of response on this issue, I'd like to see
a section on Recommended Musical Selections for Traveller Gaming
added to the TML FAQ

Hope this helps.  In Service,
Jason

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:47:05 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Grand Survey/Census and WBH?

Okay, let me ask this explicitly, for anyone who is familiar with both the
Grand Survey/Census books and the MT World-builder's Handbook.

Is there any significant material in the WBH that just wasn't in Grand
Survey/Census?

So far I haven't heard of anything specific that appeared only in WBH.
I suspect that that WBH was pretty much just a restating of GS/GC,
possibly with superficial detail added.  If so, I can probably do without
a copy of WBH.  Otherwise I need to lay hands on one soon.

- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, freelance writer, amateur
historian, science fiction fan, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
JFZeigler@aol.com
"Never speak for others. You can get in enough trouble speaking for yourself."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:49:49 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Narrowmindedness

>Who is MORE narrowminded?  The person who holds to truth and accuracy OVER
>political correctness or the person who doggedly refuses to acknowledge the
>value of truth and accuracy all so that he won't offend his neighbors.  If
>you find the truth offensive, maybe there is something wrong with YOUR
>worldview.

The most narrow-minded are those that cannot see that everyone has their own
beliefs and thusly their own truth.

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:56:55 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Bushido / Shinto

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Noble nobility
...
>> Bushido is connected with Shinto (japanese religion), isn't it?
>
>I'm not entirely certain about that. Again it's a case of Shinto being
>the predominant religion (with Bhuddism a *strong* second) of the
>culture, but not necessarily being part of the code.

  IIRC both Bushido and (State) Shinto underwent some significant changes
around the period of the Restoration (some of it prior to and helping to
enable the political changes, too).

  The 3I may not have a substantive State ideology (perhaps due to its
size and heterogeneity), but it's pretty rare in that repsect, then.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:10:47 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: TML FAQ/Traveller FAQ

On Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:13:37 -0500, "Jason Kemp"
<Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us> wrote:

>Due to the immense amount of response on this issue, I'd like to see
>a section on Recommended Musical Selections for Traveller Gaming
>added to the TML FAQ.  Most of the information is collected in a
>relatively select group of digests, and can be located by a search
>for the appropriate subject line.  A little cut and paste, followed
>by some clean-up, and voila!  An (almost) instant TML FAQ entry is
>born.

Ummm...  It looks like we are rapidly developing two FAQs with
quite a bit of overlapping information.  I would offer a freeze
on development of BOTH FAQs (the TML FAQ, and the Traveller FAQ
that appears on FT), merge the common material into the Traveller
FAQ, and keep the TML FAQ strictly related to TML stuff - i.e.,
Done to Death topics, procedures for maintaining a subscription,
and so on - stuff that would be of interest _only_ to people who
are actually subscribing to the TML.  The rest should be in the
Traveller FAQ, which is of general interest to anyone who plays
Traveller.  If someone would be so kind as to point me to the TML
FAQ, I'll slurp it up and update the Traveller FAQ appropriately,
and I'd be interested in hearing any appropriate discussion on
this issue, and on any ideas people have for new or revised
Traveller FAQ material.


- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:55:54 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

>At 11:22 AM 12/23/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>No, each unique combination is assigned a number, as in the table below:
>>
>>value |1 2 3 4 5 6
>>--------------------------------------------------
>>penny |t h h t t h
>>nickle |t t h t h h
>>dime |t t t h h h
>>
>
>What about ?
>
>penny =  t  h
>nickle = h  t
>dime =   t  h
>
>Three binary digits have 8 posible values.  111 base 2 = 7
>
>A d6 is easy to make.  Clay, wax or a suger cube will do in a pinch.
Carved
>wood will work nicely.  Why use coins that produce odd results.


Nah, try the Macho die-rolling method. Your opponent grabs a handful of
chest hair and yanks it out, divides the number of hairs removed by the
die-number (e.g 6) and the remainder is the number rolled :P
(Stolen from an old Dragon magazine)

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:59:26 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!

>Sorry, I should have been more specific.
>
>From: issam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM;
>Subject: A Baby's Misery  
>
>and
>
>From: abu islam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM;
>Subject: i really need your help  
>
>
>douglas
>
>----------
>From: Douglas Glatz[SMTP:douglas@teleport.com]
>Sent: Sunday, December 27, 1998 3:18 PM
>To: 'Traveller Mailing List'
>Subject: SPAM ALERT!
>
>The spammers have found us...
>
Yeah, I got them too. [Del]

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:50:54
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Children in Traveller

At 08:54 AM 12/28/98 -0500, you wrote:
>During a recent "kids in space" thread, I recall someone mentioning that
>children would take up some fraction of the space, air, and life support 
>requirements that an adult would require.

<snip very good post>

For a fun look at how the kids see the future go to:

http://science.nas.nasa.gov/Services/Education/SpaceSettlement/SpacePlayGrou
nd/playground.html


- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|  Now at midnight all the agents    |
|     And the superhuman crew        |  
|  Come out and round up everyone    |
|   That knows more than they do     |
|        -Bob Dylan, Desolation Row  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:00:53 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!

Maybe we should all join CAUCE and let them know of this individual..
http://www.cauce.org/

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

>I agree, but is there anything that we can do?
>
>
>At 19:15 27/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Sorry, I should have been more specific.
>>
>>From: issam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
>>To: traveller@MPGN.COM;
>>Subject: A Baby's Misery  
>>
>>and
>>
>>From: abu islam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
>>To: traveller@MPGN.COM;
>>Subject: i really need your help  
>>
>>
>>douglas
>>
>>----------
>>From: Douglas Glatz[SMTP:douglas@teleport.com]
>>Sent: Sunday, December 27, 1998 3:18 PM
>>To: 'Traveller Mailing List'
>>Subject: SPAM ALERT!
>>
>>The spammers have found us...
>>
>>
>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:03:25 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Striker Armoured Car

>No missiles ? It's TL8, and point defense gets invented at TL9. Please
>rack-mount at least 6 air-defense missiles and 4 AT missiles ...
>
>Ian Whitchurch


Ummm, it's an 'Armoured CAR' not an IFV. But if you want more firepower then
who am I to disagree.

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:21:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Children in Traveller

In mail you write:

> During a recent "kids in space" thread, I recall someone mentioning that
> children would take up some fraction of the space, air, and life support 
> requirements that an adult would require.

Children tend to be more active, negating both the air and space
savings. And since children are *growing*, their nutritional needs are
*lot* higher. A child 3 feet tall has 1/8th the mass of a 6 foot adult,
but consumes more like *half* as much food. More if you let them. 

*Dwarfs or midgets*, having finished growing will consume less food
than larger adults. Even then, they'll need more food than you'd think
simply because they have a less favorable surface to volume ratio,
which results in needing more energy to maintain body temp.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:21:44 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

> From: Smart, David J (David) <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
> Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
> 
> > Here, Here!
> >
> > At 11:55PM local time on New Year's Eve, I will drink
> > a toast to the "Family" of the TML, black sheep and
> > all!  :)
> >
> > Any others want to join in?

Gee, it seems I proposed this idea durring the Plasma Bolting of Clif... 
*weg*

> I'll raise a Scout Brew to that!!
> 
> And another to Jim Vassilakos for Gal 2.4!
> 
> An' anuthor ta Stuarrt Ferris fer WBD v2!
> 
> An' an' 'nothr t' Stav..er..Stiv jak..
> SJG n Lorn wismen fr GrPs:Trv...
> 
> an'..an'..
> 
> ..'urp'..
> 
> (THUD)

<Looking down at the drunk man...>  Can't hold his Scout Brew.  <LL take a
long pull on a Marine Brew...>

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:59:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

In mail you write:

> The Pope, however, is on record as saying that if interplanetary
> colonization became possible, they would try to convert alien life to Roman
> Catholicism.

However, there has been *much* speculation among theologians regarding
this subject. 

You see, we need to be saved because of Adam & Eve's "original sin". We
are a "fallen" race. If an alien race hasn't fallen, they wouldn't need
to be saved. Likewise, if they *have* fallen, it's not certain that
they won't have been given their *own* Savior. And if his teachings
resemble Christ's things will get *really* interesting. 

So regardless of what the Pope said (he's only infallible when making
rules under certain conditions, which I'm *certain* weren't met when he
answered this question) the Catholic Church would likely look things
over *very* carefully before doing anything official. 

Oh yeah, I haven't even *touched* on the can of worms that'll be opened
regarding the question of whether or not the aliens have souls!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:11:33 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: RPGs in boot camp

Which is why it is a "macho" die-rolling method, 'cause if you're oriental,
you're probably going to have a character with a longevity of .2 seconds in
a firefight.

- --Clif

>Nah, try the Macho die-rolling method. Your opponent grabs a handful of
>chest hair and yanks it out, divides the number of hairs removed by the
>die-number (e.g 6) and the remainder is the number rolled :P
>(Stolen from an old Dragon magazine)
>
>Cheers,
> Anson.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:19:54 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: World services

What about pubs?

> From: pbroeder@wave.co.nz
> I usually use the following to work out available services, remembering
> that on low pop planets 75% of the pop. is usually close to the starport
> and all the major services are.
> 
> Jonathan
> New Zealand
> 
> Population
> 
> Manawahe (pop 0 )
> One small hall at junction of 3 narrow, single lane roads.
> Used about twice a year.
> 
> Te Mahoe (pop 1)
> Small village nestled at the base of  the Matahina dam.
> One school (primary only.)
> 
> Te Teko (pop 2)
> Small town on a state highway. 
> Contains 2 groceries, 2 fast food joints, 1 fruit shop.
> 1 small petrol station, a police station (1 officer) and a small bank
(credit union.)
> Main exports: Maize- Te Teko grain dryers association.
> Stock- Te Teko stockyards.
> Local school provides primary & intermediate education.
> 
> Kawerau (pop 3)
> Forestry town.
>  Small shopping center (25 shops), medium police station (6 officers),
one national  chain store.
>  2 local appliance chain stores, 3 banks, 1 post office, 1 fire station,
town hall and center of local government.
> Also contains 2 petrol stations, 3 garages & tire shops. Several metal
fabrication and construction companies are also here. Also 1 law firm &
offices of  2 govt. departments.
> Exports: Processed wood products (Fletcher Challenge & Carter Holt
Harvey)
> One local newspaper - East bay news (weekly)
> Transport- is connected by road and  rail. Sorry, Kawerau airport (grass
field & windsock) is currently in service as log storage field.
> Medical services: 3 doctor's practices, 2 dentists & ambulance service.
> Education up to college level.
> 
> Whakatane (pop 4)
> Has one factory - whakatane board mills
> Large shopping district (40+ shops) plus satellite district (Kopepoe 25+
shops), 3 law firms & 1 accountant. Large police station (20+ officers), 1
stockbroker, District Courthouse, medium sized hospital, 2 post offices, 1
fire station and coastguard.
> 2 local papers- whakatane Beacon (3 days a week) the Weekender (weekly)
> 2 Radio stations- 1XX & Bayrock. (oh, all right - tourist info 88.1fm
too.)
> About half of all Govt. departments maintain services here.
> Transport: Road, rail, Hard surfaced airport ( 2 services only), port of
Whakatane (3-meter depth restriction.)
> Basic education to college level, also has a small Polytechnic institute.
> 
> Rotorua (pop 5)
> Tourist City.
> About Whakatane x3 with all govt. departments represented.
> A daily paper (Rotorua Daily post), Numerous Radio stations, a local  TV
station (GTV) and national Airport.
> Most large chain stores represented many smaller ones as well. Both
District and high courts as well.
> Also has a large Polytechnic institute and all levels of education below.
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:31:08 +1300
From: pbroeder@wave.co.nz
Subject: re: what UWP pop codes really mean

>Manawahe (pop 0 )
>One small hall at junction of 3 narrow, single lane roads.
>Used about twice a year.

Except in winter, when the local rugby team trains in the paddock next
to
it. Amend pop code to 1 during rugby season.
********************
Manawahe doesn't have a rugby team; there aren't enough people there.
Fact is, there's just the hall, a grass parking strip and a half dead
cabbage tree- that's Manawahe

>Te Mahoe (pop 1)
>Small village nestled at the base of  the Matahina dam.
>One school (primary only.)
>

Rugby field present. Probably has concrete cricket pitch at primary
school.
****************************
forget the cricket pitch, there isn't one - there may be in Australia,
but really, when was the last time NZ beat Australia at Cricket???

>Te Teko (pop 2)
>Small town on a state highway.
>Contains 2 groceries, 2 fast food joints, 1 fruit shop.
>1 small petrol station, a police station (1 officer) and a small bank
(credit union.)
>Main exports: Maize- Te Teko grain dryers association.
>Stock- Te Teko stockyards.
>Local school provides primary & intermediate education.
>

Note : If in Australia, would have a racetrack, tennis court, football
field (both sorts in Riverina/Wagga Wagga area) and a fullsized cricket
pitch. Full sized swimming pool probably present but built in '50s. In
New
Zealand, so probably has several rugby fields and a single cricket field

with an astroturf cricket pitch.
******************************
no cricket pitch or football field - but several rugby fields. The rest
is present - the water retention pond (swimming pool) was built during
the '80's by the local school - It took the government a *long* time to
deal with that dodge.
good race course, though

>Kawerau (pop 3)
>Forestry town.
> Small shopping center (25 shops), medium police station (6 officers),
one
national  chain store.
> 2 local appliance chain stores, 3 banks, 1 post office, 1 fire
station,
town hall and center of local government.
>Also contains 2 petrol stations, 3 garages & tire shops. Several metal
fabrication and construction companies are also here. Also 1 law firm &
offices of  2 govt. departments.
>Exports: Processed wood products (Fletcher Challenge & Carter Holt
Harvey)
>One local newspaper - East bay news (weekly)
>Transport- is connected by road and  rail. Sorry, Kawerau airport
(grass
field & windsock) is currently in service as log storage field.
>Medical services: 3 doctor's practices, 2 dentists & ambulance service.

>Education up to college level.

Real cricket wickets present. Racetrack and municipal swimming pool
almost
certainly present, even in New Zealand.
*************************
Even in New Zealand!!! Kawerau has an excellent thermally heated, all
year round pool.
no race course though.

At least one Melbourne Cup winner probably sired in district.
********************
hahahahahahahahahahaha
sorry, the Bay of Plenty is Cattle Country.Anyway, IIRC isn't it the
Kiwi cup now?? held in Auckland to save Airfares for when we win it??
:)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1326
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1327



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra 
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Is any body out there?
Re: Traveller World Building
FYI - Traveller Clearance Sale
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: SPAM ALERT!
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: Warship configuration
Vuki-class Intruder Scout (GTL12)
Re: Apologies
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra 
Re: TML FAQ Notice
Re: Is any body out there? 
Re: SPAM ALERT!
Titanic-class Resettlement Vessel (GTL10)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:32:49 +0000
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra 

My general take (ie IMTU) on religion in the Traveller universe (and it's very 
much my take from a TU building perspective, not from a religious one, says 
he, trying to tread lightly) is this:

- - religion is about "who am I", "where am I going", "where did I come from", 
"what happens when I die", "what is my place in the world/universe"

- - a citizen of the traveller universe might see these questions as partially 
answered by the Ancients. From the players/citizen's perspective, since they 
don't possess all the relevant Traveller supplements/adventures, the Ancients 
have a position similar to the monolith in 2001. Big, mysterious, subject to 
thousands of possible interpretations

- - a lot of people inclined to religion are going to be inclined to some kind 
of speculation about the role of the Ancients. Major religions, of a sort, are 
going to be founded around particular hypotheses. "Traditional" religion is 
going to be in competition with these new religions.

- - on the other hand, since knowing the truth about the Ancients *may* not 
answer all your questions, there's still a place for the religions we know 
today. But "competition" forces them to merge, find common ground and, to an 
extent, change. Your mileage may vary, and obviously you may well want to tilt 
this towards your point of view. But it's not too difficult to imagine 
moderate or extreme change to existing religions, without excluding them or 
indeed denying their relevance. The background/future history for Dune is a 
good example for this.

- - Bear in mind when building these future histories that existing Terran 
religions are not necessarily bound to merge with *one another* - they may 
encounter similar beliefs in other worlds with whom they believe they find 
common ground. Indeed the discovery of common ground would be claimed as 
"proof" to support a particular party's point of view, and used to win 
adherents. These discoveries may well be the key events driving 
mergers/schisms in religious movements.

IMTU, I've had for a long time a major quasi-religious order called the 
WordGuild, originally the Guild of the Divine Word (bad pun), who obsessively 
seek and collect evidence of the Ancients, and alternative Ancients 
hypotheses. They run huge library ships which travel the length and breadth of 
the Imperium and Solomani space. They run agents throughout their sphere of 
influence (got to get to the Ancients find first). They are planning secret 
expeditions toward the Core and beyond the Rim.

To support this, they need money. Being a religion gives them adherents gives 
them money. Then they need to take the money and make it work. They secretly 
control corporations, and at times megacorporations. Some companies are just 
fronts for the WordGuild. Some planets are effectively wholly owned by the 
Guild, and used to run bases, build ships, etc. Some other religions are just 
fronts for the Guild, or else Guild experiments in particular Ancients 
hypotheses, intended to flush out particular items of information.

This gets away from some of the traditional issues about religion - it's a 
cult of knowledge, rather than one of life, or of death, or of right and 
wrong. But it fulfils the role in a Traveller campaign of a big organised 
religion, while remaining very much founded in the Traveller background, and 
without particularly offending anyone. It is also an endless cheap source of 
plotlines. I have a longer write-up. If anyone's interested I'll try and fix 
it up and post it.

M

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:28:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

In mail you write:

> As a Wiccan, I have been skeptical to bring my religion or other 
> alternative religions into my Traveller games for many of the same 
> reasons that many others on the list seem uncomfortable bringing in 
> the mainstream JCI religions into their games.  Some gamers are more 
> comfortable in dealing with religions not their own, while others 
> prefer to reserve that for Fantasy clergy in other types of games, 
> and still others who wish to dodge the whole issue entirely.

You'd love the illustrations in an old filk song book I have. The
artist manages to convey the idea that the spacesuited explorers
raising a flag on a world are Wiccans or something similar. :-)

> With the recent discussions about various religious holidays on or 
> around the Winter Solstice, I wanted to add my best wishes to 
> everyone in the celebration of their Holidays, and to wish all a very 
> Happy Yule!  (And, to the best of my ability, Happy Hannakuh, Merry 
> Christmas, Blessed Ramadan, Season's Greetings, Happy Holidays, and 
> for those to whom this applies, Happy Birthday, for what it's worth.) 
>  May this Season bring you closer to that which you hold dear, and 
> bless you with Peace, Joy, and Happiness.

Just a note. While I am not a follower of Islam, I do happen to know
that Ramadan is more or less equivalent to the Christian observance of
Lent. It also moves thru the (Gregorian) calendar on a 19 year cycle.

> Then I asked myself, how could this relate to Traveller?  So, not 
> without some risk and intrepidation, here goes:
>
> ObTrav:  Many of the alternative religions currently being practiced 
> on this planet we call home center around an observance of the nature 
> cycles of the Wheel of the Year.  Shamanism, Druidism, Wicca, et al, 
> give significant honor to the passage to the seasons and the year.  
> These religions observe both the Winter and Summer Solstice, and the 
> Spring and Autumn Equinoxes, as well as intermediate Holidays based 
> on planting and harvest times, roughly halfway between each of the 
> astronomical phenomena listed before.

Quarter days and "cross-quarter" days. They are tied to the solar
longitude, though the dates for the "halfway" observances have gotten
tied more to traditional dates than to the actual solar position. 

Here's the info for 1999 on Earth (for my longitude):

Solar
longitude	date	observance	comments
- ---------	-----	--------------	------------
 -45		Feb  4	???
   0		Mar 20	vernal equinox	defined as 0 solar longitude
  45		May  5	beltane?
  90		Jun 21	summer solstice
 135		Aug  7	???
 180		Sep 23	Autumnal equinox
- -135		Nov  7	???
 -90		Dec 21	winter solstice

These all depend on the axial tilt of the planet. And they are equally
spaced thru the year.

Planets with eccentric orbits may also have to worry about seasonal
effects due to the planet's position in it's orbit. These will *not* be
evenly spaced (when I figure out how to calculate them, I'll let you know)

> When Terrans go into space, first into their own solar system, and 
> later, across the interstellar reaches, how do they handle the 
> changes induced by new worlds, with different seasons and different 
> length years?
>
> Many of the more Traditional practitioners of these various religions 
> might elect to continue to honor the cycle of their homeworld, Mother 
> Earth.  Especially during initial explorations and settlements, many 
> Circles or Covens (loose organizations of Wiccan practitioners, 
> similar to a church congregation, who meet and practice their 
> religion together) might continue to honor Terra's cycle.

Just as Jewish practice has decided that for those in places where the
sunrise set cannot be used for observances (most folks north of the
Arctic Circle or south of the Antarctic circle), the time of
sunrise/sunset at Jerusalem may be used instead. 

> More non-Traditional Circles/Covens would wish to embrace the cycle 
> of their new home, and thus begin to honor the Wheel of Life of the 
> new planet, as well as attune themselves more readily to the cycles 
> of their new home.  In doing so, many of these Circles/Covens would 
> be considered to have "gone Native" and adapted their religious 
> worship to coincide with the Solstices, Equinoxes, and Seasons of 
> their new home.  Thus, Terran Wicca would be different from Martian 
> Wicca, or Barnard Wicca, etc.  (But then again, we are a muchly 
> diversified faith, as it is.)

Well, considering that the idea is to work *with* Nature, not against
it, I'd say using local cycles makes sense. :-)

> In other situations where time or weather/seasons have little or no 
> impact on the culture (such as sector-wandering Travellers, asteroid 
> belt mainworlds or tidal-locked plantets), many of these religious 
> practitioners would probably fall back on their religious upbringing, 
> or possibly adopt the Universal Standards used by the Imperium, which 
> means falling back to Terra's rotational period as the basis for 
> their religious practices.  Thus, the Wheel of Life turns completely, 
> and returns to its origin, coming full circle in the passage of time.

Actually, even tidal locked planets will have "seasons". It's called
"libration", and it basicly means that during the course of a year, the
terminator shifts a bit east and west, with one full cycle per year.
You can see it on the moon if you look really hard. It's due to the
orbit being elliptical. (and it's hard to explain without diagrams).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:43:04 EST
From: Thendal@aol.com
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

They used to say that the Soviet Union collapsing was "farfetched" as well.

I find it funny how people seem to think something is farfetched because it
hasn't happend yet. Let us remember, Hitler was elected. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:38:25 EST
From: Thendal@aol.com
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

Everyone has the ability to change history.
All you need are the right place and time.

No one no matter how powerful is untouchable. 
People make mistakes , but government "trained" types are the only ones who
can screw things up.

Remember WACO?

LoneWolf Thendal


P.S.
To you "trained" guys out there. Remember it's always what you didn't think of
that gets in the end. And that's  no pun.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:59:09 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Is any body out there?

Have we lost the list again? Inquireing minds want to know!

If anyone sees this please let me know by private mail.

Mike Peters
Travelleri@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:20:52 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

<<
Well, Joe gave me permission to xerox out-of-print material, and as Roger
Sanger hasn't bothered to revoke it I assume it's still valid, therefore I
_could_ copy mine for you at cost.

Figure a hundred pages at 5 per page, plus $2-3 for shipping.

  >>

>Could I also buy some copies?

I would also be interested in getting a copy of this long-sought book. (a
long winded way of saying Me Too!)
But postage for me would probably be more in the region of $8-10 due to
location.

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:08:59 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: FYI - Traveller Clearance Sale

Titan Games has some dirt-cheap CT/MT and Trav: 2300
items on sale, if anyone is interested. Just about
all items are in mint condition. Go to URL:
 http://titan-games.com/ and click on the "Special
Sale Items" link.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:40:14 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In a message dated 12/28/98 3:07:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Sapience@compuserve.com writes:

> I seldom trust any one textbook without reservation. The formula
>  I use was from a recent (1996) astrophysics text. As I put it in
>  my spreadsheet, it goes:
>  
>  TP:  Base mean planetary temperature, K
>  EFS: Effective stellar temperature, K.
>  ALB: Planetary Albedo
>  RS:  Stellar radius;  Km
>  OD:  Orbit distance;  AU
>  
>  TP = EFS * ((1 - ALB) ^ 1/4) * SQRT( RS/ (2* OD * 1.496e11))

That looks roughly equivalent to what I've got.  The discrepancy with the old
Book 6 formula is in the albedo factor -- Book 6 had surface temperature as
being _directly proportional_ to the quantity (1 - A), rather than
proportional
to its fourth root.  I just spent an hour or so monkeying with the Stefan-
Boltzmann equation to make sure I could rederive the formula properly,
so I'm fairly confident that I've got the right relationship.

Hey, is your text Carroll and Ostlie?

- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, freelance writer, amateur
historian, science fiction fan, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
JFZeigler@aol.com
"Never speak for others. You can get in enough trouble speaking for yourself."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:19:08 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!

...except that this isn't "commercial" email and the man is asking for help
for an obviously crippled youngster in a country with a lower per capita
income.

- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: Anson Betts <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!


>
>Maybe we should all join CAUCE and let them know of this individual..
>http://www.cauce.org/
>
>Cheers,
> Anson.
>
>Oook Oook
>
>>I agree, but is there anything that we can do?
>>
>>
>>At 19:15 27/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>>Sorry, I should have been more specific.
>>>
>>>From: issam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
>>>To: traveller@MPGN.COM;
>>>Subject: A Baby's Misery
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>From: abu islam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
>>>To: traveller@MPGN.COM;
>>>Subject: i really need your help
>>>
>>>
>>>douglas
>>>
>>>----------
>>>From: Douglas Glatz[SMTP:douglas@teleport.com]
>>>Sent: Sunday, December 27, 1998 3:18 PM
>>>To: 'Traveller Mailing List'
>>>Subject: SPAM ALERT!
>>>
>>>The spammers have found us...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:08:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 12/27/98 5:51:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> Sapience@compuserve.com writes:
>
>>  Is it OK if I throw in some more detailed suggestions, then?
>>     1) For detailing stars, update the tables that give
>>  luminosities and themperatures for various stellar classes. TNE, 
>>  WTH, and presumably WBG give old classes and figures.  The
>>  temperature, luminosity, and mass of stars almost have to be
>>  given in a table. A full length version would probably be too
>>  long, but an abridged version would need some interpolation
>>  rules. For the extended system, more icy moons in the outer
>>  system.
>
> Done.  There are actually ways to simplify this nicely, for main-
> sequence stars at least, without giving up too much realism.

I'd *really* like to see something that covers *non* main sequence
stars. Because there are so many neat plots you can base around the
peculiarities of the various pre and post main sequence stages.

Sure, they shouldn't be *common* but they should be detailed. Or at
least have an entry somewhere that says "non-main sequence star" with a
list of possible types. That would allow for an "exotic stars"
supplement or article if there isn't room in the main book. 

>>     I would be interested in how the base temperature varies with
>>  season or time of day, instead of just having minima and maxima.
>>  I don't know how well founded WTH's scheme for variation of
>>  temperature with latitude is.
>
> My meteorology is a bit wobbly, so I may stick close to the WTH
> approach.

As noted in another message, this sort of thing gets *very* messy,
*very* quickly.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:37:27 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

Did it REALLY collapse?  Or were things simply reorganized?

- --Clif


>They used to say that the Soviet Union collapsing was "farfetched" as well.
>
>I find it funny how people seem to think something is farfetched because it
>hasn't happend yet. Let us remember, Hitler was elected.
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:41:56 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Warship configuration

>I inadvertantly deleted the messages in question, but there was a brief
>discussion recently about hull configurations used for warships.  I
>personally had always assumed that anything built under government contract
>would probably be a box configuration, as that has the lowest cost
>multiplier....
>
>
>James
>1190 days to go (but who's counting?)


It all depends what they want it to do, remember the SR-71? (Blackbird)

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:46:54 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Vuki-class Intruder Scout (GTL12)

Vuki-class Intruder Scout (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

200-ton USL Hull, DR 600, PD 4, Radical stealth, Radical emission
cloaking, Hardened Bridge, Engineering, 30 Maneuver, 14 Jump, 120 Fuel, 4
Staterooms, 1 Utility, 13 cargo

Crew: pilot, engineer, 2 gunners
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.02 million km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km

Statistics: EMass 633.2 tonnes, LMass 696.9 tonnes, Cost MCr 102.9, HP 24900
Performance: Accel 4.2 G, Jump 6, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area      Crew
200-ton hull                     (200.0)       7.5       0.8   15000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       0.2       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR600, PD4                   0.0     180.0       2.2       0.0      0.0
2 turrets                            2.0       0.9       0.1    1600.0      2.0
Radical stealth                      0.0       8.3      12.4       0.0      0.0
Radical emission cloaking            0.0       8.3      12.4       0.0      0.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (6 parsecs)              14.0      56.0      42.7       0.0      0.1
Jump tanks                         120.0     156.0      19.2       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (4.2G)               30.0     120.0       8.7       0.0      0.3
WEAPON MODULES                    Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
6 Missile Racks                    (2.0)      78.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Hardened Bridge                      2.5       7.7       3.7       0.0      1.0
1 utility module                     1.0      11.5       0.3       0.0      0.0
Hold                                13.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
4 staterooms                        16.0       8.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS               Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                             (120.0)       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Cargo                             (13.0)    (65.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
Missiles                             0.0       0.0      10.2       0.0      0.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out          199.5     710.8     113.1   16600.0      4.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew        199.5     645.8     102.9   16600.0      2.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:20:25 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Apologies

> From: Anson Betts <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
> Subject: Re: Apologies
> 
> >Btw, should we not change the term "Flame" to "FGMP-15 Blast" or "Plasma
> >Blast"?  This is the TML after all & we do not have flame throwers, but
we
> >do have Fusion Guns & Plasma Rifles...
> You don't? Hey, why not design one! Got some real-world stats round here
> somewheres...

What, you want us to use a flamethrower on a target?  I would prefer a nice
Plasma Rifle.  Remember Battle Dress can withstand Flamethrower attacks,
but Plasma Rifle attacks can go right through it...

> Cheers,
>  Anson.
>
> Oook Oook

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:44:44 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra 

> Oh yeah, I haven't even *touched* on the can of worms that'll be opened
> regarding the question of whether or not the aliens have souls!

Anybody ever read Gregory Benford's short story collection 'Matter's End'?  
Thre's a short story in it, about 3 pages long, called Proselytes, where an 
alien race sends its missionaries to Earth to convert us 'heathens', only 
getting shot up in the end by yet *another* alien race intent on converting 
everybody to *their* militant religion.

Interesting reading.  And definitely one of those things that makes you go 
'Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...'

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:09:09 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: TML FAQ Notice

>Yeah, that was one of those useless threads I started...
>
>--Clif
>
You aren't, by any chance, a frequenter of alt.games.Daggerfall are you? We
have heaps of pointless threads. fun though :)

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:46:51 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Is any body out there? 

> Have we lost the list again? Inquireing minds want to know!
> 
> If anyone sees this please let me know by private mail.

No, it's just been real quiet over the 'holidaze'.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:49:29 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!

>...except that this isn't "commercial" email and the man is asking for help
>for an obviously crippled youngster in a country with a lower per capita
>income.
>
>--Clif
>
If he's in that bad shape, why not sell his computer?

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:39:33 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Titanic-class Resettlement Vessel (GTL10)

Titanic-class Resettlement Vessel (GTL10)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

5000-ton USL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 415 Maneuver, 200
Jump, 1500 Fuel, 97 Staterooms, 1500 Low Berths (holds 6000 cryotubes), 10
Utility, Spacedock (holds 10 Gigs, 200 tons, 2 doors), 10 Sickbays, 10 Lab
Modules, 1299 cargo

Crew: 3 bridge crew, 16 engineers, 11 medics, 4 stewards, 10 auxiliary
crew, 10 scientists
Passengers: 20 high passengers, 100 middle passengers, 6000 low passengers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 160000 km, Radscanner 1600 km

Statistics: EMass 8132.7 tonnes, LMass 15255.3 tonnes, Cost MCr 1293.1, HP 165000
Performance: Accel 1.1 G, Jump 3, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
5000-ton hull                   (5000.0)     110.0       5.5  110000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       1.1       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR100, PD4                   0.0     550.0       6.6       0.0      0.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       4.1       0.3       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (3 parsecs)             200.0     800.0     620.0       0.0      8.0
Jump tanks                        1500.0    1950.0     240.0       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (1.1G)              415.0    1411.0      66.4       0.0      6.9
4 fuel processor modules (46.9       4.0       4.4       3.4       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Bridge                               2.5       8.6       4.0       0.0      3.0
10 utility modules                  10.0     115.0       3.0       0.0      0.0
Spacedock with 2 entrances         400.0       2.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
10 Sickbays                         10.0       7.5       1.6       0.0     11.0
10 Lab Modules                      20.0     100.0      10.0       0.0     10.0
Hold                              1299.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
97 staterooms                      388.0     232.8       1.2       0.0      0.0
Low berths for 6000 cryotubes      750.0    3000.0     330.0       0.0      0.0
MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS               Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                            (1500.0)       0.0       0.5       0.0      0.0
Cargo                           (1299.0)  (6495.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
Carried ships                    (200.0)   (770.0)    (55.0)       0.0     10.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out         4999.5   15560.4    1348.6  110000.0     54.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew       4999.5    8295.4    1293.1  110000.0     19.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1327
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1328



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Quotal-class Tramp Trader (GTL10)
Vanderpelt-class Luxury Liner (GTL12)
Teach-class Commerce Raider (GTL10)
Viodak-class Light Carrier (GTL12)
Megalith-class Battle Station (GTL10)
Brighton-class Battleship (GTL12)
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
Re: Stealing Plotlines

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:46:09 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Quotal-class Tramp Trader (GTL10)

Quotal-class Tramp Trader (GTL10)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

400-ton SL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 30 Maneuver, 12 Jump,
80 Fuel, 23 Staterooms, 5 Low Berths (holds 20 cryotubes), 1 Utility, 94
cargo

Crew: 2 bridge crew, engineer, 4 gunners, 2 stewards
Passengers: 12 high passengers, 12 middle passengers, 20 low passengers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 160000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
6 360-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 32, Dmg 6dx50(2), 1/2D Rng 32726 km, MxRng
98618 km, FP 4
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 611.6 tonnes, LMass 1072.4 tonnes, Cost MCr 73.8, HP
42300
Performance: Accel 1.1 G, Jump 2, Air Speed 2858 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
400-ton streamlined hull         (320.0)      25.0       3.0   25000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       0.3       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR100, PD4                   0.0     125.0       1.5       0.0      0.0
4 turrets                            4.0       3.3       0.4    3200.0      4.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       4.1       0.3       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (2 parsecs)              12.0      48.0      37.2       0.0      0.5
Jump tanks                          80.0     104.0      12.8       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (1.1G)               30.0     102.0       4.8       0.0      0.5
Fuel processor module (10.0 ho       1.0       1.1       0.9       0.0      0.0
WEAPON MODULES                    Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
3 Missile Racks                    (1.0)      39.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
6 360-MJ Lasers                    (2.0)      72.0       6.2       0.0      0.0
3 sandcasters                      (1.0)      15.0       0.8       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Bridge                               2.5       8.6       4.0       0.0      2.0
1 utility module                     1.0      11.5       0.3       0.0      0.0
Hold                                94.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
23 staterooms                       92.0      55.2       0.3       0.0      0.0
Low berths for 20 cryotubes          2.5      10.0       1.1       0.0      0.0
MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS               Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                              (80.0)       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Cargo                             (94.0)   (470.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
Missiles                             0.0       0.0       7.4       0.0      0.0
Sand cannisters                      0.0       0.0       0.2       0.0      0.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out          320.0    1093.8      81.4   28200.0      9.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew        320.0     623.8      73.8   28200.0      3.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:39:54 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Vanderpelt-class Luxury Liner (GTL12)

Vanderpelt-class Luxury Liner (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

1200-ton SL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 23 Maneuver, 48 Jump,
360 Fuel, 60 Staterooms, 3 Utility, Spacedock (holds Gig, 20 tons, door),
Swimming Pool, Dinner Theatre, 130 cargo

Crew: 3 bridge crew, engineer, 12 gunners, 3 stewards, 1 auxiliary crew
Passengers: 50 high passengers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.02 million
km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
Dinner Theatre: Combination dining/entertainment area
12 405-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 33, Dmg 5dx100(2), 1/2D Rng 41635 km, MxRng
124909 km, FP 7
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 1446.9 tonnes, LMass 2160.6 tonnes, Cost MCr 236.3, HP
89400
Performance: Accel 1.0 G, Jump 3, Air Speed 2722 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
1200-ton streamlined hull        (960.0)      25.0       6.0   50000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       0.6       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR100, PD4                   0.0     100.0       1.2       0.0      0.0
12 turrets                          12.0       5.1       1.2    9600.0     12.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (3 parsecs)              48.0     192.0     146.4       0.0      0.5
Jump tanks                         360.0     468.0      57.6       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (1.0G)               23.0      92.0       6.7       0.0      0.2
WEAPON MODULES                    Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
12 Missile Racks                   (4.0)     156.0       0.2       0.0      0.0
12 405-MJ Lasers                   (4.0)      93.6       8.2       0.0      0.0
12 sandcasters                     (4.0)      60.0       3.0       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Bridge                               2.5       7.3       3.1       0.0      3.0
3 utility modules                    3.0      34.5       0.8       0.0      0.0
Spacedock with 1 entrances          40.0       1.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Swimming Pool                       20.0      98.0       0.1       0.0      1.0
Dinner Theatre                      80.0      19.6       0.5       0.0     10.0
Hold                               130.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
60 staterooms                      240.0     120.0       0.7       0.0      0.0
MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS               Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                             (360.0)       0.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
Cargo                            (130.0)   (650.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
Missiles                             0.0       0.0      20.4       0.0      0.0
Sand cannisters                      0.0       0.0      0.10       0.0      0.0
Carried ships                     (20.0)    (78.0)     (5.5)       0.0      1.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out          959.5    2203.8     263.3   59600.0     20.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew        959.5    1475.8     236.3   59600.0      4.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:46:29 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Teach-class Commerce Raider (GTL10)

Teach-class Commerce Raider (GTL10)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

1200-ton USL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Radical stealth, Radical emission
cloaking, Hardened Bridge, Engineering, 500 Maneuver, 36 Jump, 240 Fuel,
33 Staterooms, 3 Utility, Spacedock (holds Gig, 20 tons, door), Sickbay,
231 cargo

Crew: 3 bridge crew, 19 engineers, 12 gunners, 2 medics, 30 troops
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 160000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
24 360-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 32, Dmg 6dx50(2), 1/2D Rng 32726 km, MxRng
98618 km, FP 4
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 2991.3 tonnes, LMass 4200.1 tonnes, Cost MCr 359.5, HP
89400
Performance: Accel 4.7 G, Jump 2, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
1200-ton hull                   (1200.0)      50.0       2.5   50000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       0.6       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR100, PD4                   0.0     250.0       3.0       0.0      0.0
12 turrets                          12.0       9.9       0.5    9600.0     12.0
Radical stealth                      0.0      29.8      44.7       0.0      0.0
Radical emission cloaking            0.0      29.8      44.7       0.0      0.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       4.1       0.3       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (2 parsecs)              36.0     144.0     111.6       0.0      1.4
Jump tanks                         240.0     312.0      38.4       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (4.7G)              500.0    1700.0      80.0       0.0      8.3
Fuel processor module (30.0 ho       1.0       1.1       0.9       0.0      0.0
WEAPON MODULES                    Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
6 Missile Racks                    (2.0)      78.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
24 360-MJ Lasers                   (8.0)     288.0      24.7       0.0      0.0
6 sandcasters                      (2.0)      30.0       1.5       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Hardened Bridge                      2.5      8.10       4.6       0.0      3.0
3 utility modules                    3.0      34.5       0.9       0.0      0.0
Spacedock with 1 entrances          40.0       1.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Sickbay                              1.0       0.8       0.2       0.0      2.0
Hold                               231.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
33 staterooms                      132.0      79.2       0.4       0.0      0.0
MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS               Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                             (240.0)       0.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
Cargo                            (231.0)  (1155.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
Missiles                             0.0       0.0      14.8       0.0      0.0
Sand cannisters                      0.0       0.0       0.5       0.0      0.0
Carried ships                     (20.0)    (78.0)     (5.5)       0.0      0.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out         1199.5    4284.1     380.4   59600.0     66.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew       1199.5    3051.1     359.5   59600.0     22.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:08:45 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Viodak-class Light Carrier (GTL12)

Viodak-class Light Carrier (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

5000-ton USL Hull, DR 600, PD 4, Heavy compartmentalization, Hardened
Command Bridge, Engineering, 190 Maneuver, 200 Jump, 1500 Fuel, 92
Staterooms, 8 Low Berths (holds 32 cryotubes), 10 Utility, Spacedock
(holds 100 Rampart Fighters, 2 Gigs, 1040 tons, 11 doors), 2 Sickbays, 505
cargo

Crew: 10 bridge crew, 3 engineers, 34 gunners, 3 medics, 102 auxiliary
crew, 32 troops
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.2 million km
Sensors: PESA 16000 km, AESA 80000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
45 405-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 33, Dmg 5dx100(2), 1/2D Rng 41635 km, MxRng
124909 km, FP 7
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 6967.10 tonnes, LMass 18449.4 tonnes, Cost MCr 1006.9, HP 220500
Performance: Accel 1.0 G, Jump 3, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
5000-ton hull                   (5000.0)      55.0       5.5  110000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       1.5       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR600, PD4                   0.0    1320.0      15.8       0.0      0.0
Heavy compartmentalization           0.0       5.5       0.1       0.0      0.0
2 weapon bays                      100.0       6.5       0.6   13000.0      4.0
30 turrets                          30.0      12.8       1.2   24000.0     30.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (3 parsecs)             200.0     800.0     610.0       0.0      2.0
Jump tanks                        1500.0    1950.0     240.0       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (1.0G)              190.0     760.0      55.1       0.0      1.9
WEAPON MODULES                    Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
45 405-MJ Lasers                  (15.0)     351.0      30.6       0.0      0.0
45 sandcasters                    (15.0)     225.0      11.3       0.0      0.0
2 Missile Bays                   (100.0)    1237.6       1.7       0.0      0.0
SCREENS                           Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Meson screen (DR565)                 4.0      20.0       9.0       0.0      0.0
Nuclear damper (10 mile range)       1.0      10.0       4.0       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Hardened Command Bridge              5.0      22.6      14.5       0.0     10.0
10 utility modules                  10.0     115.0       2.5       0.0      0.0
Spacedock with 11 entrances       2080.0      11.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
2 Sickbays                           2.0       1.7       0.4       0.0      3.0
Hold                               505.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
92 staterooms                      368.0     184.0       1.1       0.0      0.0
Low berths for 32 cryotubes          4.0      16.0       1.8       0.0      0.0
MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS               Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                            (1500.0)       0.0       0.5       0.0      0.0
Cargo                            (505.0)  (2525.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
Missiles                             0.0       0.0     167.6       0.0      0.0
Sand cannisters                      0.0       0.0       3.6       0.0      0.0
Carried ships                   (1040.0)  (9186.0)  (1412.0)       0.0    102.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out         5000.0   18818.4    2590.6  147000.0    184.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew       5000.0    7107.4    1006.9  147000.0     13.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:40:19 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Megalith-class Battle Station (GTL10)

Megalith-class Battle Station (GTL10)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

100000-ton USL Hull, DR 10000, PD 4, Total compartmentalization, Radical
stealth, Radical emission cloaking, Hardened Command Bridge, Engineering,
82351 Maneuver, 960 Staterooms, 220 Low Berths (holds 880 cryotubes), 200
Utility, Spacedock (holds 2000 tons, 3 doors), 100 Vehicle Bays (100
Fighters, total capacity 500 tons), 15 Sickbays, 2840 cargo

Crew: 10 bridge crew, 1372 engineers, 280 gunners, 16 medics, 100 vehicle
crew, 130 troops
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.2 million km
Sensors: PESA 80000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
100 360-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 32, Dmg 6dx50(2), 1/2D Rng 32726 km, MxRng 98618 km, FP 4
40 Particle Beam Bays: Imp, Acc 33, Dmg 6dx1500, Rng 23410 km, MxRng 70220 km, FP 63
Spinal Particle Beam: Imp, Acc 36, Dmg 6dx10000, Rng 78080 km, MxRng 234240 km, FP 424
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 745415.7 tonnes, LMass 763847.1 tonnes, Cost MCr
22508.5, HP 2114196
Performance: Accel 4.2 G, Jump 0, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
100000-ton hull               (100000.0)     810.0      40.5  810000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0      14.1       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR10000, PD4                 0.0  405000.0    4860.0       0.0      0.0
Total compartmentalization           0.0     162.0       1.6       0.0      0.0
90 weapon bays                    4500.0     585.0      29.3  585000.0    180.0
100 turrets                        100.0      82.5       4.1   14464.0    100.0
Radical stealth                      0.0     704.7    1057.1       0.0      0.0
Radical emission cloaking            0.0     704.7    1057.1       0.0      0.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       4.1       0.3       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (4.2G)            82351.0  279993.4   13176.2       0.0   1372.5
WEAPON MODULES                    Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
100 360-MJ Lasers                 (33.3)    1200.0     103.0       0.0      0.0
50 Missile Bays                 (2500.0)   30940.0      42.5       0.0      0.0
40 Particle Beam Bays           (2000.0)   18680.0     912.4       0.0      0.0
Spinal Particle Beam              1513.0   15126.0    1035.0       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Hardened Command Bridge              5.0      23.3      15.6       0.0     10.0
200 utility modules                200.0    2300.0      60.0       0.0      0.0
Spacedock with 3 entrances        4000.0       3.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
100 Vehicle Bays holding 100 F     525.0    1250.0      37.5       0.0      0.0
15 Sickbays                         15.0      11.3       2.4       0.0     16.0
Hold                              2840.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Cargo                           (2840.0) (14200.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
960 staterooms                    3840.0    2304.0      11.5       0.0      0.0
Low berths for 880 cryotubes       110.0     440.0      48.4       0.0      0.0
SHIPS AUXILIARIES                Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Carried ships                   (2000.0)  (4000.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
Carried vehicles                 (500.0)   (600.0)  (1500.0)       0.0    100.0
CONSUMABLES                       Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                                 0.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
Missiles                             0.0       0.0    6071.5       0.0      0.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out       100000.0  779124.0  30079.10 1409464.0   1908.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew     100000.0  760324.0   22508.5 1409464.0   1382.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:08:17 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Brighton-class Battleship (GTL12)

Brighton-class Battleship (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION

50000-ton USL Hull, DR 10000, PD 4, Total compartmentalization, Basic
stealth, Basic emission cloaking, Hardened Command Bridge, Engineering,
16579 Maneuver, 2500 Jump, 20000 Fuel, 483 Staterooms, 48 Low Berths
(holds 192 cryotubes), 100 Utility, Spacedock (holds 100 Ramparts, 5 Gigs,
5 Pinnaces, 1300 tons, 12 doors), 10 Sickbays, 2059 cargo

Crew: 10 bridge crew, 194 engineers, 140 gunners, 11 medics, 110 auxiliary
crew, 500 troops
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.2 million
km
Sensors: PESA 16000 km, AESA 80000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
150 405-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 33, Dmg 5dx100(2), 1/2D Rng 41635 km, MxRng
124909 km, FP 7
24 Particle Beam Bays: Imp, Acc 33, Dmg 6dx1500, Rng 23410 km, MxRng 70220
km, FP 63
Spinal Meson Gun: Exp, Acc 36, Dmg 6dx10000(!), Rng 78080 km, MxRng 234240
km, FP 4243
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60

Statistics: EMass 244333.1 tonnes, LMass 264298.8 tonnes, Cost MCr
19547.10, HP 1165446
Performance: Accel 6.1 G, Jump 4, Air Speed 0 km/h


DESIGN SPREADSHEET

STRUCTURE                         Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
50000-ton hull                 (50000.0)     255.0      25.5  510000.0      0.0
Airtight sealing                     0.0       0.0       7.8       0.0      0.0
Armour: DR10000, PD4                 0.0  102000.0    1224.0       0.0      0.0
Total compartmentalization           0.0      51.0       0.5       0.0      0.0
45 weapon bays                    2250.0     146.3      14.6  292500.0     90.0
50 turrets                          50.0      21.3       2.0 (25536.0)     50.0
Basic stealth                        0.0     194.2      58.3       0.0      0.0
Basic emission cloaking              0.0     194.2      58.3       0.0      0.0
DRIVE MODULES                     Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Engineering module                   1.0       3.7       0.2       0.0      0.0
Jump drive (4 parsecs)            2500.0   10000.0    7625.0       0.0     25.0
Jump tanks                       20000.0   26000.0    3200.0       0.0      0.0
Maneuver drive (6.1G)            16579.0   66316.0    4807.9       0.0    165.8
WEAPON MODULES                    Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
150 405-MJ Lasers                 (50.0)    1170.0     102.0       0.0      0.0
20 Missile Bays                 (1000.0)   12376.0      17.0       0.0      0.0
24 Particle Beam Bays           (1200.0)   11208.0     547.4       0.0      0.0
Spinal Meson Gun                  1512.0   15119.0     939.0       0.0      0.0
SCREENS                           Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Meson screen (DR10012)             374.0    1870.0     844.5       0.0      0.0
Nuclear damper (20 mile range)       4.0      40.0      16.0       0.0      0.0
WORKSPACE MODULES                 Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Hardened Command Bridge              5.0      22.6      14.5       0.0     10.0
100 utility modules                100.0    1150.0      25.0       0.0      0.0
Spacedock with 12 entrances       2600.0      12.0       0.1       0.0      0.0
10 Sickbays                         10.0       8.5       2.1       0.0     11.0
Hold                              2059.0       0.0       0.0       0.0      0.0
ACCOMODATION MODULES              Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
483 staterooms                    1932.0     966.0       5.8       0.0      0.0
Low berths for 192 cryotubes        24.0      96.0      10.6       0.0      0.0
MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS               Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fuel                           (20000.0)       0.0       7.0       0.0      0.0
Cargo                           (2059.0) (10295.0)       0.0       0.0      0.0
Missiles                             0.0       0.0    1675.8       0.0      0.0
Carried ships                   (1300.0) (10070.0)  (1486.0)       0.0    110.0
TOTALS                            Spaces      Mass      Cost      Area     Crew
Fully loaded & fitted out        50000.0  269584.8   22716.8  776964.0    965.0
Unloaded with skeleton crew      50000.0  249219.8  19547.10  776964.0    204.0


(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:16:24 EST
From: StevenA201@aol.com
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

>Then I asked myself, how could this relate to Traveller?  So, not 
>without some risk and intrepidation, here goes:


A word from the other end of the spectrum, I am ordained in one of the most
conservative Christian denominations around.  Well...  conservative about our
tradition, rather liberal in our politics.

I have long felt that traditional SF failed to understand what a powerful
cultural force religion is.  Being agnostics, we assume that the future will
be uniformly agnostic.

But I have a hunch Frank Herbert might be more prophetic than Gene
Roddenberry; the future might look more like Dune than Star Trek.

ObTrav: IMTU, the Roman Catholic Church failed to raise its eyes to the stars.
During the critical 23C, they were busy squabbling over the primacy of Rome.

However, a splinter group became very active and very successful evangelists.
Excommunicated in AD2437, they came to be known as the Solomani Catholic
Church.  IMTU, they are scary -- everything the conspiracy theorists believe
about Jesuits...

Solomani Catholics observe the 365-day Imperial calendar.  However, the
ancient date for Easter (and thus half the holy days) is tied to the cycle of
the terran moon.  After decades of fighting, they declared these holidays
fixed to the Imperial calendar.  Christmas is observed on 358; Easter is 092
and Pentecost is 141.  Sunday is observed on Senday.  (There may be ultra-
conservative renegades who still count Easter the old way.)

In my Spinward Marches, there are several other faiths.  The Daryen have a
kind of vague deism, not a terribly inspiring faith but a logical one.  They
celebrate a Day of Atonement in memory of the Maghiz.

The Sword Worlds are solidly Lutheran, being descended primarily from humans
from Lutheran nations.  Their churches are state churches, and little
attended, but their clergy are important state officials.

Islam is growing among the Jonkeereen.  Can you tell I liked Dune?  I'm
thinking of unleashing them in a jihad across the Marches...
  --S

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:56:14
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

At 11:07 AM 12/28/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Here, Here!
>
>At 11:55PM local time on New Year's Eve, I will drink a toast to the 
>"Family" of the TML, black sheep and all!  :)
>
>Any others want to join in?

I'll drink to that.  :)

you won't have me next year though, because at midnight, 1/1/2000 I plan to
be on top of Telegraph Hill screaming "I win!" at the top of my lungs.
When I was diagnosed with HS in 95, my long term survival goal was to live
to see 2000.  Now it looks like I'll make it.

The short-term goal was to live long enough to see the Regency Sourcebook.

>My New Year's Resolution:

Finally get ACQ to Andy, and finish writing the Lunion Subsector.


- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:05:12 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Stealing Plotlines

>At 08:41 25-12-98 -0500, Keven wrote:
>>Drake is good for plotlines.  For instance, for ideas on merc
tickets,
>there's his Hammer's Slammers stories, and one not as famous:
Forlorn
>Hope, which, IMNSFBHO, is one *HELL* of a read.

Agree completely. Even his Vietnam stories can be milked for merc
campaigns.

I've also just read Lois McMaster Bujold's "Shards of Honor" and it is
a perfect example of the problems with the sort of thing that Cleon
Zhunatsu was trying in M:0.

The surprising thing is that it's realy just a retelling of "Romeo &
Juliet" with a happy ending, but some parts are wonderfully done,
especially how the "public story" differs dramatcally from what really
happened, despite the best efforts of the heroine to tell the truth.

The only other book I can remember that did this as well was "The Real
Story (The Gap into Conflict)" by Stephen Donaldson, though that was
specificaly written to portray such a difference

Bujold's other stuff, like "The Warrior's Apprentice" is also good for
Traveller background in a
P.E period.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1328
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 1329



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Kobolds=Vargr?
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
Terran First Contact Timeline (long)
Re: Apologies
Re: Kobolds=Vargr?
Re: New Year's Toast To TML... 
Re: World Services
CT/MT style character creation in GT.
Re: Striker Armoured Car
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.
Re: SPAM ALERT!
Re: Kobolds=Vargr?
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long)
Striker - Armoured Car: ADAT variant (TL 8)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:03:07 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Kobolds=Vargr?

I was watching a delicious piece of anime yesterday, "Record of 
Lodoss War," which is actually the dramatization of an RPG 
sword'n'sorcery campaign played in Japan. I have never played fantasy 
(Started right with Traveller a decade ago, and stick to it), so what 
was a striking surprise to me could be well-known. Hence, I ask on 
illumination....

The surprise was this: I was watching this with my 
girlfriend, trying to explain which kind of races we were 
watching. So first I say these are elves, then the goblins 
appear, and then the protagonist is attacked by a bunch of 
stereotypical bad guys, and I stare at them and say "...and... 
these...are... VARGR????."

I swear it, they looked exactly like a bunch of low-tech Vargr to me, 
only a bit taller and stronger. If pressed, I could have said they 
had some Urzaeng blood. But they were, for me, clearly Vargr. In a 
fantasy RPG.

A couple of minutes later, somebody in the story called them 
"Kobolds." I had heard the name before, but I never saw this 
Vargr-image.

Is this some sort of standard in Fantasy, I mean, are the Kobolds 
physically like Vargr, or it is just in this anime? If they are like 
Vargr, I have just found a new source of illustrations for Traveller 
games involving Vargr!
Carlos Alos-Ferrer
Geonee-Maker and BTE Ref
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/8772

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 98 19:34:10 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

On 12/28/98 at 04:56 PM,  dberry@hooked.net said:

>you won't have me next year though, because at midnight, 1/1/2000 I
>plan to be on top of Telegraph Hill screaming "I win!" at the top of
>my lungs. When I was diagnosed with HS in 95, my long term survival
>goal was to live to see 2000.  Now it looks like I'll make it.

Here's hoping you make it to 2020!

>>My New Year's Resolution:

>Finally get ACQ to Andy, and finish writing the Lunion Subsector.

Hey! I'll second *that* resolution too. ;->

>+------------------------------------+
>| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
>|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
>+------------------------------------+
>|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
>|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
>|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
>+------------------------------------+

How many years has it been since the 49'er's did that?  Umm, been so long I can't remember. ;-p

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:13:26 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Terran First Contact Timeline (long)

Fellow Sophonts,

I include the following Timeline of Terran history for my First 
Contact campaign, Project StarRise, for your perusal.  In it, I hope 
you will find the seeds for such later developments as the First IW, 
a Megacorporation's founding, and GenAssist, as well as some 
significant details leading up to First Contact.  The items labelled 
with an asterisk (*) are canon.  Those labelled with an ampersand (@) 
are inspired by the Prometheus Rising data.  The rest, for better or 
worse, is my own fault.

The Greater Republic of Texas was inspired by 2300AD.  The Western 
League of Sino-Australian Nations was inspired by a comment on this 
mailing list, which indicated that Australian and either China or 
Japan would most likely unite under such conditions.  (In this case, 
I chose China, due to the Trade Wars.)  The Trade Wars were inspired 
by the novel "Cybernetic Samurai."  The eugenics program Project: 
Adam concept came from the movie "Soldier" and was further inspired 
by "Star Trek Classic:  Botany Bay" episode and the short-lived TV 
series "Space: Above and Beyond."  The Barsoom Project was named for 
Edgar Rice Burrough's work, and Podkayne Down is dedicated to the 
works of the Dean of Science Fiction, Robert A. Heinlein (oft called 
the Admiral on this list.)  And finally, the "Reach for the Stars" 
Declaration of 2093 owes a grudging nod to the movie "Toy Story" for 
its title.  :)

I welcome any relavent comments, suggestions, and discussions.  Thank 
you for your time.

In Service,
Jason
==========================================

Terran History, from the foundation of the United Nations until 
First Contact:

1940's

*United Nations founded at the end of WWII in New York in 1945.

1950's

*Terra begins their first tentative efforts toward space exploration 
in 1957.

1960's

*First lunar landing by US on June 21, 1996.

1970's

The timeline of the Traveller Universe begins to slowly depart from
the Real World's timeline in 1978.  The division becomes more apparent
at the turn of the 20th Century.

1980's

In 1984, the US Space Shuttle Challenger explodes due to a 
propulsion system failure.

1990's

Tensions in Middle East between Iraq and Kuwait lead to one hundred
day long First Gulf War in 1990.

Further tensions in Middle East between Iraq and Kuwait lead to Second
Gulf War in 1998.

2000's

First International Space Station (ISS) completes its five years of
construction in 2003.

*US manned voyages to Luna resume in early 2004.

*Archimedes settlement on Luna established by the US as a small 
mining base in 2006.

*United Nations Space Coordinating Agency (UNSCA) established in 
2008.

2010's

*Copernicus settlement on Luna established in 2017 by America, 
Britain and Japan.

The Trade Wars, a series of severe economic maneuvers by several of
the world powers to establish dominance of the World Market, begins in
2018.

2020's

The end of the Trade Wars in 2021 results in the Second Great
Depression, also called the Crazy Years.

In 2023, the former US state of Texas, under the direct of charismatic
Texan Republican party leader Moses Adamson, secedes from the United
States to form the Greater Republic of Texas.  Minor military
skirmishes occur before President Adamson and President Chelsea
Clinton of the United States negotiate a peace settlement, which in
turn is ratified by both nations' legislative bodies.  Texas's
independence is recognized in exchange for fairly lucrative trade
agreements between the two new nations.  In early 2024, the GRT is
recognized as an independent nation by the United Nations.

@In 2029, the United Nations issues several articles designed to
facillitate the recovery of the world's economy, and fosters the
organization of multi-national corporate conglomerations.  These trade
blocs become the new political identities within the UN.

2030's

The United States and Greater Republic of Texas begin a joint manned
space mission to Mars known as the Barsoom Project in 2030.

Scientific breakthroughs in gravitic research at the Texas Space
Center in Houston revolutionizes space travel in 2031.

The Barsoom Project achieves a successful Mars landing in early 2032. 
Texican astronaut Jared Schmitz takes the first step onto Martian
soil.

The United States of America and the Greater Republic of Texas begin
earnest plans to colonize Mars, and the first mining and research
settlement, Podkayne Down, begins construction in 2038.  The United
States constructs a small base on the Martian moon of Deimos that same
year, the Aries Station.

2040's

Several other national blocs establish colonies on Mars during the
2040's, including the European Commonwealth and the Western League of
Sino-Australian Nations.

The United States turns some of its attention toward a manned mission
to Mercury.  In 2044, US astronauts under Project Hermes are the first
to walk on Mercurian soil.

The New Eastern Soviet Bloc and the Greater Republic of Texas both
launch independent missions to the Asteroid Belt in 2046.  The United
States follows up with explorations of their own with months.  Upon
discovery of many mineral-rich resources within the Belt, more blocs
strive to establish colonies among the asteroids.

*In 2047, the European Space Agency (ESA) Long-Range Colony Mission
leaves Terra.

The Western League of Sino-Australian Nations and the New Eastern
Soviet Bloc both send Long-Range Colony Missions toward nearby star
systems in 2049.

2050's

*Mercury Solar Observatory first established in 2051.

Throughout the 2050's, the various blocs use the Asteroid Belt as the
launch point for manned missions to the outer Solar System.  Numerous
projects begin to explore and settle the moons of Jupiter starting in
2051, Saturn in 2054, Uranus in 2055, and Neptune in 2056.  Colonial
expansion throughout the inner Solar System and the Jovian moons
begins to occur in earnest in the late 2050's.

*By 2058, various national blocs have established bases throughout 
the Terran solar system.

The US Charon Mission to Pluto in 2058 marks the attainment of the
final frontier within the Solar System.

2060's

A series of unexplained explosion at the Charon Station on Pluto in
early 2061 causes the US to react aggressively.  The Charon Station is
heavily fortified, and the United States establishes a strong
defensive posture over their Plutonian territory.  The UNSCA denies
the US the right to maintain sole control of the outermost planet,
based on precedence set by expansions into the outer system during the
previous decade.

The Neptunian Skirmishes of 2061 and 2062 between the US and other
national blocs staging missions to Pluto causes the UNSCA to step in. 
After long mediations behind closed doors, the UN Security Council
announced that Pluto would fall under the jurisdiction of the United
Nations, and that the US was given the right to protect Pluto in the
name of the United Nations.  The space surrounding Pluto and Charon
was declared interdicted in the Treaty of Pluto 2062, and only UN
Security Council personnel were granted access to the Charon Station. 
The research or discoveries made on Pluto are not divulged to the
public, and are the cause for some unrest among the political
unstable.

Political tensions among expanding colonies and blocs mount, leading
to several interplanetary skirmishes:  the Jovian Assault of 2064, the
Battle of Ceres in 2068, and the Titan Incident in 2069.  Political
tensions are high by the end of the decade.

2070's

The Io Incident of 2071 over violations of GRT Jovian airspace by
United Arabic Coalition vessels after repeated warnings sparks
retaliatory terrorist acts within the domed cities of several outer
system colonies.  Several thousand die in the aftermath of the
explosions, and the Io orbital city of San Juan Baptista is destroyed.

The Greater Republic of Texas immediately declares war on the United
Arabic Coalition, and the Solar System become embroiled in its first
true interplanetary System War.  Armed conflict both on Terra, her
colonies and interplanetary space caused the death of over two hundred
million people over the System War's duration.

The System War comes to a close when the New Arabic Freedom movement
overthrows the United Arabic Coalition, and sues for peace in late
2077.  The United Nations recognizes the two new national blocs, the
New Arabic Free States and the United Coalition of Islam, which arises
from the political turmoil of the System War and internal civil war of
the old UAC.

Occasional radical terrorist activitie during 2078 and 2079 inspires
the UNSCA to announce and support the Ganymede Accords, which
redefined the rights of UNSCA officials to search and monitor
interplanetary transactions and trade, with an eye towards reducing
terrorist activity and maintaining peace.

2080's

*A corporate consortium in Europe is founded in 2080, colloquially
called "the Company."

*Luna, Terra's moon, unifies as a nation in the United Nations in 
2085.

*Researchers in the Asteroid Belt develop the Waven Hyperspace Shunt
drive in 2087, allowing jumps through hyperspace of distances up to 30
AUs.

In 2088, investigative reporters in the United States reveal to the
world the existence of a fifteen year old military eugenic research
project, Project: Adam.  Through cloning and selective gene spliciing,
Project: Adam was intended to develop genetically superior warriors,
in the event of a Second System War.  The United States comes under a
lot of scrutiny from other members of the United Nations.

In 2089, two other military eugenics programs, from the Western League
of Sino-Australian Nations and the New Eastern Soviet Bloc, are
revealed by UN Security Council agents.  A third was discovered in 
development by "the Company."

2090's

In early 2090, the United Nations General Assembly proposed and passed
the Anti-Eugenics Act, which emancipated the subjects of the various
military eugenics projects, and made such acts on humans illegal
without the authorization of the UN Security Council.  Many of the
"Eugenes" had trouble adapting to normal society, and those unable to
adapt retreated to positions within the various armed forces or
military boarding schools.

@In 2093, US President Margaret Inch issues the "Reach For The Stars"
Declaration, charging the United States Space Force (USSF) with the
task of launching the first successful interstellar space mission,
utilizing the new WHS technology.

In late 2094, the Gaussenberg Equations allows the WHS field to be
stabilized beyond 30 AUs, and full Jump-1 capacity is achieved.

@In 2095, the US begins construction on Deep Space Station Alan
Sheppard, a space station approximately half-way between Terra and
Barnard's Star.  It is finished in under 14 months.

@In September, 2096, the USS Starleaper I travels to Barnard's Star 
on first interstellar space mission to another star system.
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 14:43:35 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Apologies

>> >Btw, should we not change the term "Flame" to "FGMP-15 Blast" or "Plasma
>> >Blast"?  This is the TML after all & we do not have flame throwers, but
>we
>> >do have Fusion Guns & Plasma Rifles...
>> You don't? Hey, why not design one! Got some real-world stats round here
>> somewheres...
>
>What, you want us to use a flamethrower on a target?  I would prefer a nice
>Plasma Rifle.  Remember Battle Dress can withstand Flamethrower attacks,
>but Plasma Rifle attacks can go right through it...
>
Oh, sorry I forgot. I come from a low tech world. :( But there is hope, have
you noticed in Civilisation how a phalanx can shoot down a bomber :P
Seriously though, if you are playing a campaign in the TNE universe then the
Flame-thrower is a perfectly viable weapon, if you have your tech levels set
to accommodate such.
However, a Plasma-thrower  might be the HT equivalent of the Flame-thrower
here on Urth. Ever played Paranoia?

#1 Hey, what's that?
BLAM
#2,#3,#4,Ugly bad guy... Aaarghhhh!
#1 Ooops
Plasmapack Beeeep Beeeep Beeeep
#1 How do I get this thing off.
Plasmapack Warning 5 seconds to meltdown
#1 Arrrghh!
Plasmapack Screaming won't help, citizen, 2
#1 Ohgodogodogod...
Plasmapack Have a merry Daycycle
BOOOOOOOOM!

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:00:27 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Kobolds=Vargr?

>I was watching a delicious piece of anime yesterday, "Record of
>Lodoss War," which is actually the dramatization of an RPG
>sword'n'sorcery campaign played in Japan. I have never played fantasy
>(Started right with Traveller a decade ago, and stick to it), so what
>was a striking surprise to me could be well-known. Hence, I ask on
>illumination....


Fair enough, I prefer a blend of genre's so as not to get stale... :)

>The surprise was this: I was watching this with my
>girlfriend, trying to explain which kind of races we were
>watching. So first I say these are elves, then the goblins
>appear, and then the protagonist is attacked by a bunch of
>stereotypical bad guys, and I stare at them and say "...and...
>these...are... VARGR????."


<snip>


>A couple of minutes later, somebody in the story called them
>"Kobolds." I had heard the name before, but I never saw this
>Vargr-image.

>Is this some sort of standard in Fantasy, I mean, are the Kobolds
>physically like Vargr, or it is just in this anime? If they are like
>Vargr, I have just found a new source of illustrations for Traveller
>games involving Vargr!


I can see why, in the Basic DM's guide it says 'These small, evil dog-like
men ... have scaly, rust-brown skin and no hair' I chopped out the bits
irrelevant to the description.  To those playing AD&D, have fun (I know I
sure did.)
So the rust-brown would appear to be the 'fur' colouring.
As for a source of images, sorry, the only half-decent one was in the first
edition AD&D Monster Manual, after that they become gobliny things. Bummer
eh.

Historically though, the word 'Kobold' means evil spirit.

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:03:17 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML... 

> you won't have me next year though, because at midnight, 1/1/2000 I plan to
> be on top of Telegraph Hill screaming "I win!" at the top of my lungs.
> When I was diagnosed with HS in 95, my long term survival goal was to live
> to see 2000.  Now it looks like I'll make it.

An even more interesting goal:

Times Square on 12/31/2999.  Be there or be square.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:09:15 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: World Services

>
>Thanx. I'd like to work out something a little more general
>purpose, but this gives me a decent idea of what to expect.
>
Well, let's all send in examples of pop-densities from around the planet,
collate them and then try and establish a middle ground to work from IOTU.
Sound like an idea?

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:11:05 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

I noticed that nobody mentioned the recent Pyramid article presenting
a Traveller style character creation system for GURPS Traveller.

Since I always used the "normal" system in my GURPS Traveller
games, I was interested in what some from other perspectives
on it thought?  (I assume that at least someone here read it?)

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:18:28 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Striker Armoured Car

In a message dated 12/29/98 3:43:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<< I have real problems with some of the missile rules allowing
 really dodgy designs. >>

what kind of problems are there?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:24:32 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

In a message dated 12/29/98 4:12:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
legate@futureone.com writes:

<< <Looking down at the drunk man...>  Can't hold his Scout Brew.  <LL take a
 long pull on a Marine Brew...> >>

or the IMOJ toast (chugging his LEO Brew): "Badges! Lucan says we don't need
any stinking badges!...."

(pardon me while I duck from numerous thrown objects....:-)  )

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:36:56 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

In a message dated 12/29/98 5:04:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dberry@hooked.net writes:

<< 
 you won't have me next year though, because at midnight, 1/1/2000 I plan to
 be on top of Telegraph Hill screaming "I win!" at the top of my lungs.
 When I was diagnosed with HS in 95, my long term survival goal was to live
 to see 2000.  Now it looks like I'll make it. >>

All Right!!!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 98 20:46:17 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

On 12/29/98 at 06:11 PM,  "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> said:

>I noticed that nobody mentioned the recent Pyramid article presenting
>a Traveller style character creation system for GURPS Traveller.

>Since I always used the "normal" system in my GURPS Traveller games,
>I was interested in what some from other perspectives on it thought? 
>(I assume that at least someone here read it?)

From the read, I thought it was a good start, and could be the basis
for a decent random gen. method.  I haven't built any characters
with it, though, so I don't know how well it works in practice.

As much as I've enjoyed Rob's GTrav vehicles, do you know what I'd
*really* like to see?  A few example GTrav characters, that's what!
Characters built using the "normal" system, as you put it, as well
as several using the Templates.  As good as the GT book is (and it
*is* good), I think it assumed the readers were more familar with
GURPS than Traveller.  We old Travheads need some examples and some
explanations that weren't there.

Ok, GURPS isn't CT/MT or TNE, and the levels of attribute and skill
you need are different, and it's not just add 3 to everything
either. ;-> So....

Just how much skill does a Pilot need, and in which skills to equal
a Pilot-1 or a Pilot-4?  What about an Engineer..which skills and
what levels does he need?  Merchant skills aren't the same, how do
you compensate?  What about combat skills...do they need to be
higher than non-combat skills, as implied in the B book?

Then let's talk about task levels... ;->

...but, I *would* like to see some example characters with
explanations as to why you designed them the way you did.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:04:29 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!

Did you read?  He didn't say his problem was paying for the diapers.  It
seemed he was having trouble finding a new maker.

Besides, how do you know HE even posted it from his computer?

- --Clif
- -----Original Message-----
From: Anson Betts <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!


>
>>...except that this isn't "commercial" email and the man is asking for
help
>>for an obviously crippled youngster in a country with a lower per capita
>>income.
>>
>>--Clif
>>
>If he's in that bad shape, why not sell his computer?
>
>Cheers,
> Anson.
>
>Oook Oook
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:13:05 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Kobolds=Vargr?

I had thought that kobolds looked more like fanged yodas with longer
limbs...

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:13:07 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long)

Jason Kemp wrote:
> 
> *First lunar landing by US on June 21, 1996.

That's July 20, 1969. 

> The timeline of the Traveller Universe begins to slowly depart from
> the Real World's timeline in 1978.  The division becomes more apparent
> at the turn of the 20th Century.
> 

However, since the Traveller Universe is canon, this should be phrased
as if the so-called Real World is simply taking the off-ramp from the
freeway of reality. :-)

> In 1984, the US Space Shuttle Challenger explodes due to a
> propulsion system failure.
> 

That's January 28, 1986.

> 
> @In 2095, the US begins construction on Deep Space Station Alan
> Sheppard, a space station approximately half-way between Terra and
> Barnard's Star.  It is finished in under 14 months.

That's "Shepard". Not that I'm picky ...

All in all, though, I thought it was pretty darn good!
- -- 
Erwin Fritz
UNIX/NT/LAN/DBA Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 20:21:17 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Striker - Armoured Car: ADAT variant (TL 8)

  NOTE - the previous design was meant to be 8.56 tonnes, loaded;
mobility was correctly calculated as the P/W & GP values showed.

Armoured Car: ADAT variant (Tech Level 8)

   The vehicle has a crew of 3 (driver, gunner, commander). Its turret
mounts an autocannon and a medium machinegun in a single mount, with direct
fire control.
Four ATGM launch rails are on the turret roof. Height: 1.25 m (+ turret 0.5 m).
Width: 2.2 m. Length: 4.25 m. Total Volume: 9.26 m^3. Weight: 8.11 tons.
Flotation:
yes. Ground pressure = 24. Price: Cr48,615.

 Movement: Road, 194 kph/162 cm; cross-country, 39 kph/32 cm; water 10 kph/
8 cm.
 Movement Effects on Fire: Move half or less, no effect; Move more than
half, -4 EFP.
 Armour: Chassis front, 26; chassis sides, 12, chassis back, 17; deck, 6;
belly, 2; turret front 24; turret sides/back, 17.
 Target Size DM's: +1 low, +1 high.
 Equipment: Sealed environment.
 Power: 0.81 megawatt MHD turbine consumes 243 liters of fuel per hour; fuel
capacity is 651 liters, enough for 2.7 hours. P/W ratio is 99; vehicle is Light.
 Weapons: as basic model, plus tac missile systems.
  Autocannon ammo supply and ROF have been doubled: it engages 8 targets

                 Effective          Long           Extreme 
2.5 cm A/C      2000 m +4 (16)  3000 m +3 (14)  4500 m +1 (12)

ATGM rounds weigh 20 kg each, and have a range of 4 km. Each is wire-guided from
the commanders crew station (DM +3), and has a HEAP warhead of penetration 42.


  Design notes: The engine is front mounted (reverse front/rear minor
penetration results). A set of ATGM reloads (120 kg, Cr 912) is often
carried on the rear deck (itself restructured with a moderate slope after
the internal stowage capacity was designed out) with the rounds in tubes
per package launchers. Reloading them is a several minute job, minimum,
and best done well away from action.

  The schedule for consumables now reads as: 1500 KEAP rounds, Cr 9000;
3000 GPMG rounds, Cr 3600; 651 liters fuel, Cr 163; 4 ATGM's, Cr 512.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1329
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1330



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: SPAM ALERT!
Re: SPAM ALERT!
Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 
Re: Long Night
Re: Striker 
Re: Apologies
Dining Hobbits (was: Re: Children in Traveller)
Re: Traveller FAQ update - Your Help Requested.
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
Re: Kobolds=Vargr?
Re: SPAM ALERT!
Re: Overthrowing Government?
Re: SPAM ALERT!
RE: SPAM ALERT!
Terran First Contact Timeline
Re: Apologies
Moderated list proposal
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:33:14 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!

>Did you read?  He didn't say his problem was paying for the diapers.  It
>seemed he was having trouble finding a new maker.
>
I have no wish to get into a war with you about how far you are up your
mamma's.

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:48:30 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!

At least "up my mamma's" we know how to read and we don't knee-jerk at every
spam that comes along like some mass media stooge.

- --Clif

>>Did you read?  He didn't say his problem was paying for the diapers.  It
>>seemed he was having trouble finding a new maker.
>>
>I have no wish to get into a war with you about how far you are up your
>mamma's.
>
>Cheers,
> Anson.
>
>Oook Oook
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:09:52 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: Odd Comments About the Gene Pool 

>The only reason I ask is because in TNE they talk about 1,000,000 being the
>lowest threshold for maintaining an expanding population...

IMHO at TL 15 one could maintain an expanding population with complete
genetic diversity from a single cheek swab.

- --
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 06:16:33 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Long Night

Thomas Vickers writes:

>I am wondering about a timeline for the LN and any history/background for
>the Solomani rim during this period.

Here's a timeline that I've worked out for MTU. I don't guarantee that it
is 100% canonical, but it's close.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     -2204      Hiroshi Estigarribia establishes the Rule of Man.
     -2177      Estigarribia's  son  is  proclaimed  Emperor Hiroshi II.
     -2170?     After  consolidating  his  position Hiroshi II transfers
                the government from Dingir and Vland to Hub/Ershur.
- -2170 to -2000  The Great Terran Diaspora and the Plague of Duskir.
- -2100 to -1849  The RoM fails to settle on a formal method of choosing a
                emperor.  Succession  struggles routinely causes massive
                civil unrest.
 ca. -1850      Solomani Rim cut off from the core of RoM.
- -1849 to -1776  Succession struggles becomes worse. Up to a dozen indivi-
                duals may be vying for the throne at any one time.
     -1776      The treasury on Hub/Ershur refuses to acknowledge a mone-
                tary issue from the branch treasury at Antares. Generally
                regarded as the date for the fall of the Rule of Man.
- -1776 to -1500  The  first  stages of the Long Night is marked by warfare
                among the RoM's small successor states, sometimes no more
                than large-scale piracy. Interstellar trade cease in most
                areas. Some worlds, not self-sufficient, simply die; many
                worlds' economies are ruined; most lose the technology to
                construct starships.
     -1526      The last governmental body claiming to be the Rule of Man
                (on Sylea/Core)  ceases to exist.  Interstellar ships can
                no  longer  travel  (on  the average)  more than one year
                (perhaps thirty parsecs) without being attacked. Also the
                net  growth of industrial output throughout the empire is
                negative;  factories are closing faster than new ones can
                open.
     -1500      The wars in most of the former Rule of Man are over: most
                of the old starships has broken down and no one knows how
                to  repair them.  Only a few scattered areas have managed
                to  keep  jump  technology and only on the Rim are any of
                these pocket states close enough to interact a little.
- -1500 to -1400  In  the  Solomani Rim  pirates  still occasionally plague
                what little trade remains, but the steady decline of said
                trade  and  the well-armed ships of the Terran Mercantile
                Community makes piracy a bad business and by -1400 it has
                almost disappeared.
     -1120      First  Aslan Border War begins.  Reavers from Dark Nebula
                and Magyar cease to bother the Solomani Rim.
      -650      Sylean Federation established.
      -500      Trade is reestablished in many areas by now.
       -30      Cleon's Campaign begins.
   76 to 120    Pacification Campaigns.
       100      The IISS reaches the Solomani Rim.
       200      Most  of  the worlds of the Solomani Rim are trading with
                themselves.
       380      Imperial-Aslan border established.
  426 to 588    The various Solomani Rim worlds and governments joins the
                Imperium without fighting.
       426      Easter Concord joins the Imperium.
       588      Incorporation of Sol into Imperium.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've also written a few library data entries about the period. Again,
they are my interpretation of canon, not guaranteed canonical. I hope
people can use it.


Here is my suggestion for resolving the various dates and
events given for Terra, the Terran Mercantile Community, the
Old Earth Union, the Rule of Man and such:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------
LIBRARY DATA:

OLD EARTH UNION: Interstellar government from -1110 to 588 compri-
sing  Terra  and  the  worlds  closest to her:  Barnard,  Calgary,
Dismal,  Ember,  Fenris,  Forlorn,  Hades,  Heiphaistos,  Inferno,
Junction,  Loki,  Midway,  Peraspera,  Prometheus,  Sirius and Ys.
Fleet bases were also maintained at Aggida,  Markhashi, and Meshan
- -  all within jump-3 of Terra  -  but  these systems were not con-
sidered  part  of the Union proper;  Agidda was a balkanized world
and  thus  unable to send representatives to the Union Council and
both  Markhashi and Meshan had been abandoned during the recession
that followed the fall of the Rim Province (qv.) in -1690.
    The  OEU  was  formed  in  -1110  out of the Terran Mercantile
Community  (qv.)  as  a response to worsening economic conditions.
Although  experiencing some problems  -  a short, vicious tradewar
with  the  newly  formed  Dingir League  from -1106 to -1098 put a
severe  strain  on  both  sides  -  the Union proved strong enough
to  defend  itself  from any serious threat during the rest of the
Long Night,  and  in  588  it was peacefully incorporated into the
Imperium.

REAVERS:  Towards  the end of Twilight,  some of the less affected
states  in outlying sectors turned to plundering old Terran Confe-
deration worlds that had lost interstellar ship technology.  These
plunderers  were called Reavers and differed from ordinary pirates
in preying on whole worlds.  This lent their name a special horror
that has clung to it down to modern days. Most of the Reavers came
from Dark Nebula,  Alpha Crucis,  Magyar,  and of course, Reavers'
Deep.
    Some historians hold that the Reaver era ended in -1118 when a
Reaver  fleet  from  the Opljiok Defense League lost two thirds of
its  ships in an attack on Jarslav.  With the Aslans becoming ever
stronger  the various Reaver states in Magyar and Dark Nebula grew
unwilling to risk such losses.
    On  the other hand,  the name continued to be applied to inde-
pendent warlords who,  escaping with loyal fleet elements from the
breakup  or  takeover  of  a small state with a few working ships,
could easily make their way into the Great Unknown and have a good
chance of dominating one or several primitive planets. Some of the
most notorious Reaver lords like Blackjack Duquesne, Orchid Lu Wu,
and Grand Admiral Izanak belong to the period from -1120 to -1000.
    During  the  latter  half of the Long Night it became usual to
label  any  opponent a Reaver,  thereby justifying practically any
treatment of that opponent.


RIM PROVINCE: Administrative division of the Second Empire compri-
sing most of the defunct Terran Confederation. It is, depending on
what historian you ask, either one of the first or one of the last
parts of the Rule of Man to succumb to the Long Night.  It was one
of the first areas to loose contact with Hub;  in -1854 the second
new  governor  sent  out  from  Hub failed to reach the province's
capital, Dingir,  and Acting Governor Ayara Twofeathers instituted
the  custom  of  Governor-appointed successors,  a system that was
kept to the end of the provincial government.
    The  lessening  flow  of commerce between the rim and the core
was  already  rendering  taxes  more and more meaningless,  and 16
years later the province ceased to remit taxes to Hub except on an
intermittent  basis.  For a while Dingir tried to keep up payments
in the form of precious metals and gems, but when the third of the
treasure  fleets  carrying these payments failed to return,  these
too were discontinued.
    On  the  other hand,  the government at Dingir kept ruling "in
the  name of the Emperor" for another century and a half,  keeping
the  peace  and  enforcing  Rule of Man regulations.  It collapsed
finally in -1690, when a huge budget deficit forced the government
to  decommision  two  thirds  of  the already decimated provincial
fleets  and  turn  over the rest to various individual planets and
the Terran Mercantile Community (qv.).


TERRAN MERCANTILE COMMUNITY:  Loose  trade  association  formed in
- -1862  by Terra and her closest ex-colonies that later grew into a
corporation.  Ostensibly a purely commercial organisation,  it was
actually a means of circumventing Rule of Man prohibitions against
member  planets having their own navies.  The TMC built a merchant
fleet  that  toed  a  very  fine line between commercial ships and
naval vessels.  The ships carried enough armament to protect them-
selves  from pirates and raiders,  but not enough to classify them
as  naval vessels.  Their merchant fleet made Terra and her fellow
worlds in the TMC a formidable commercial force.
    When  the  Rule of Man  in  the form of the Rim Province (qv.)
collapsed  in  -1690,  The Terran Mercantile Community had a space
fleet  to  patrol  its  systems and to replace the now gone Second
Empire fleets.  The TMC's merchant fleet cushioned the blow of the
Long Night  and  made it possible for Terra to survive in relative
comfort.
    The  TMC  took  over  many of the functions of the Rule of Man
(though abandoning the extreme edges of the old Rim Province), but
was  careful  at first not to assume the mantle of government.  By
avoiding  the appearance of ruling it avoided alienating the other
planets and driving them into forming their own unions. Relying on
the  protection  of the TMC ships were cheaper than building their
own,  and  the  TMC  itself  took  pains  not to be percieved as a
threat.
    For  several  centuries the TMC managed to maintain this deli-
cate balance,  but the steadily worsening commercial climate even-
tually  forced them to retrench.  Like the Rim Province before it,
the  TMC  found  the  strain of protecting the furthest worlds too
much of a burden. From -1500 on other Rule of Man successor states
in Alpha Crucis,  Dark Nebula,  Magyar and Reavers' Deep routinely
raided worlds on the fringe of the TMC sphere (see _Reavers_), but
although  this  was a contributing strain,  it was not the primary
factor. The Reaver Era ended before the end of the TMC, and Reaver
attacks in any case concentrated on fringe worlds that had already
been  abandoned  by the TMC and lost interstellar technology.  The
primary  factors  were  economic depression and a widespread trend
toward isolationism, causing a shift to planetary self-reliance at
the expense of interplanetary trade.
    When the worlds near Easter in -1112 formed the Easter Concord
and  other  worlds began talking of forming their own unions,  the
TMC  decided to cut its losses.  In -1110 the corporation formally
transformed  into the Old Earth Union,  abandoning all worlds out-
side the Union to their own devices,  and becoming a small,  tight
group instead of a large, loose one.
    See also: Old Earth Union.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

Notes: The Rim Province is my invention (well, the name anyway.
I'm sure some such sub-division existed).
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a few more:

CULTURAL ROOTS REVIVAL:  Cultural movement that swept Terra in the
11th  and  10th  Century PI encouraging people to rediscover their
pre-spaceflight roots.  Old arts and crafts were revived; likewise
old architecture,  books,  plays,  dances, dresses, languages, and
songs.
    The  CRR  was  a  reaction to the transformation of the Terran
Mercantile Community  into the Old Earth Union and the loss of the
stars that many felt this represented,  a deliberate further aban-
donment  of the universe around,  a desire to forget what had been
lost  and  turn  to values that could not be lost.  In this it has
been likened to the neo-nationalist phenomenon observed on many of
the worlds abandoned to themselves during the Long Night,  but the
resemblance is only skin deep.  Where the neo-nationalist messages
were always "strength through unity" the CRR message was "strength
through diversity".


"PRIDE OF THE RIM":  Legendary  treasure ship which disappeared in
- -1690  and has since become the object of numerous fruitless trea-
sure hunts.
    When the bankrupt Rim Province went into voluntary liquidation
in -1690,  the planetary governor of Gashurzid (Solomani Rim 2602)
organized a coup.  He commandeered a 1.000.000 T ore transport and
renamed  it  PRIDE OF THE RIM.  He  thereupon  through a number of
manouvres of spurious legality contrived to have it's holds filled
with  precious  metal ingots,  state-of-the-art electronics,  rare
pharmaceuticals,  precious stones and other valuables, topping off
with  the  cream  of more than 2000 years worth of accumulated art
treasures looted from the top museums of the world.
    Escorted  by  a  squadron  of 2nd Empire cruisers he then left
Gashurzid en route for Terra.  But on the second jump PRIDE OF THE
RIM  failed  to  appear  at the other end.  The escort immidiately
organized  a search of the surrounding star systems,  but no trace
of the PRIDE was ever found.
    As  none of the identifiable parts of the cargo have ever been
seen again either, it is generally believed that the PRIDE suffer-
ed  a misjump,  and that it and its vast fortune is still drifting
around  somewhere  in  interstellar space.  PRIDE OF THE RIM is to
this  day  a  popular  bait  amongst  confidence tricksters of the
Solomani Rim.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:19:22 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Striker 

...
><< I have real problems with some of the missile rules allowing
> really dodgy designs. >>
>
>what kind of problems are there?

  IIRC (and I haven't read the rules comprehensively for years :( ):

 1) Operator Guided (/wire-guided) missiles don't require the firing vehicle
to remain stationary, which is (AFAIK) rather unrealistic for modern ATGM-
equipped AFV's.

 2) Laser Designated rounds always hit unobscured targets, which makes heli
gunships a questionable investment in those rules, even before grav units.

 3) Homing missiles are way too flexible - firing at aircraft is OK, as
presumably they're handed off to the missile guidance system after radar
ID/tracking, but according to the rules a single gunner can dump homing
missiles off of multiple launch rails in a turn, against multiple AFV's
cowering in a tree-line, for example. This really concerns me, as the
capacity for abuse (if the above interpretation is correct, and I hope
it's not) is immense.

 4) IR Follow-up rounds are prone to abuse; dropping them might be nice.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:40:14 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Apologies

Legate Legion wrote:
> 
> > From: Anson Betts <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
> > Subject: Re: Apologies
> >
> > >Btw, should we not change the term "Flame" to "FGMP-15 Blast" or "Plasma
> > >Blast"?  This is the TML after all & we do not have flame throwers, but
> > > we do have Fusion Guns & Plasma Rifles...

> > You don't? Hey, why not design one! Got some real-world stats round here
> > somewheres...
> 
> What, you want us to use a flamethrower on a target?  I would prefer a nice
> Plasma Rifle.  Remember Battle Dress can withstand Flamethrower attacks,
> but Plasma Rifle attacks can go right through it...
> 
Sounds like a good reason to _have_ flamethrowers (an attack to which
one's own forces are more resistant than the enemy's...). 

<<snip sig files>>
- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:49:22 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Dining Hobbits (was: Re: Children in Traveller)

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> *Dwarfs or midgets*, having finished growing will consume less food
> than larger adults. Even then, they'll need more food than you'd think
> simply because they have a less favorable surface to volume ratio,
> which results in needing more energy to maintain body temp.
> 
Ah, good.  We now have an explanation for the FRPGers for why hobbits
have such ravenous appetites....

> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:06:46 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller FAQ update - Your Help Requested.

In a message dated 12/27/98 5:40:30 PM Central Standard Time,
jzeitlin@cyburban.com writes:

<< - Who/what is GDW?
 
 	Dates? Principals? Origins? Origins of Traveller involvement?
 
     What else?
  >>

Game Designers' Workshop was established in 1973 as a wargame publisher. While
it initially concentrated on military simulations, it soon (1975) branched out
into role-playing games. The founding partners were Frank Chadwick, Rich
Banner, Loren Wiseman and Marc Miller.

GDW fell on hard times in the early 90's and closed its doors in 1996.


Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:15:55 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

> From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
> Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
> 
> << <Looking down at the drunk man...>  Can't hold his Scout Brew.  <LL take a
>  long pull on a Marine Brew...> >>
> 
> or the IMOJ toast (chugging his LEO Brew): "Badges! Lucan says we don't need
> any stinking badges!...."

<LL pulls out a large Plasma Rifle & shoots the LEO in the face at close
range...  Strephan also said, "Faces!  Lucan says they don't need any
stinking faces.!">

> (pardon me while I duck from numerous thrown objects....:-)  )

<Picking up a small rope & tugging on it.  Soon a Tigeress lands on
Sethkinnel...  And the band starts up with the Monty Python theme in the
background as a naked LL plays the piano & says, "Now, for something
completly different.">

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:18:08 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Kobolds=Vargr?

> From: Clif <brclif@digital.net>
> Subject: Re: Kobolds=Vargr?
> 
> I had thought that kobolds looked more like fanged yodas with longer
> limbs...

Now, when I have promised not to Plasma Blast Clif, he gives me such a good
opening....  *weg*

> --Clif

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:30:35 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!

> From: Clif <brclif@digital.net>
> Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!
> 
> At least "up my mamma's" we know how to read and we don't knee-jerk at
every
> spam that comes along like some mass media stooge.
> 
> --Clif

Clif, I have to put this to you simply...  I know this will hurt you... 
But, I think the entire TML hates you...  If you were a race, I think even
the most liberal member of the TML would say, "Wipe it out."...  Clif, I am
going to have to say this, but personally, I find you to be the kind of
thing even Arnold Judas Rimmer on the "Red Dwarf" would find to be morally
bankrupt...  Sadam Hussein would get a warmer reception here than you
would...  Hell, I would much rather have Adolf Hitler over for dinner, than
spend any time with you...  Lets face it, you are the least liked person on
the TML...  Even Anson, the person who loves everyone, cannot stand you... 

> >>Did you read?  He didn't say his problem was paying for the diapers. 
It
> >>seemed he was having trouble finding a new maker.
> >>
> >I have no wish to get into a war with you about how far you are up your
> >mamma's.
> >
> >Cheers,
> > Anson.
> >
> >Oook Oook

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:40:16
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government?

At 07:37 PM 12/29/98 -0500, Clif wrote:

>Did it REALLY collapse?  Or were things simply reorganized?

Since the collapse resulted in the independence of the Baltic States, the
Ukraine and all of the Central Asian Republics, I severely doubt that there
was any over-riding plan involved.  The Russians have owned or coveted
those areas for centuries, and given Russia's history of being invaded, I
can't imagine them deliberately given up their buffer states.  Especially
the CAR, since the Soviet Union had enough trouble with Islamic militants
when they were under the USSR's thumb.

ObTrav:  After the Fifth Frontier War, what happens on the various worlds
of the new Border Worlds Confederation?

- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:43:09
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!

At 11:48 PM 12/29/98 -0500, Clif wrote:
>At least "up my mamma's" we know how to read and we don't knee-jerk at every
>spam that comes along like some mass media stooge.

Fine.  Sell *your* computer and forward him the money.  Better yet,
volunteer with UNICEF and go to Egypt, which will get you far away from the
evil government.

*Plonk*

Doug, the increasingly irritated.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:41:25 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: SPAM ALERT!

You are kidding, right?


- ----------
From: 	Clif[SMTP:brclif@digital.net]
Sent: 	Tuesday, December 29, 1998 4:19 PM
To: 	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 	Re: SPAM ALERT!

...except that this isn't "commercial" email and the man is asking for help
for an obviously crippled youngster in a country with a lower per capita
income.

- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: Anson Betts <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!


>
>Maybe we should all join CAUCE and let them know of this individual..
>http://www.cauce.org/
>
>Cheers,
> Anson.
>
>Oook Oook
>
>>I agree, but is there anything that we can do?
>>
>>
>>At 19:15 27/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>>Sorry, I should have been more specific.
>>>
>>>From: issam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
>>>To: traveller@MPGN.COM;
>>>Subject: A Baby's Misery
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>From: abu islam <aljohar@starnet.com.eg>
>>>To: traveller@MPGN.COM;
>>>Subject: i really need your help
>>>
>>>
>>>douglas
>>>
>>>----------
>>>From: Douglas Glatz[SMTP:douglas@teleport.com]
>>>Sent: Sunday, December 27, 1998 3:18 PM
>>>To: 'Traveller Mailing List'
>>>Subject: SPAM ALERT!
>>>
>>>The spammers have found us...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 02:02:04 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Terran First Contact Timeline

General commentary on things that caught my eye...  : )

> In 2023, the former US state of Texas, under the direct of charismatic
> Texan Republican party leader Moses Adamson, secedes from the United
> States to form the Greater Republic of Texas.  Minor military

I don't think so!   It would be impossible for teh second rate units and
equipment of any guard unit to hold off any kind of assault from a componet of
the regular forces 
I'd like to see anything Texas puts out that could match the USMC or USAF or
USN.
Course, i see you're a Texan... no offense  ; )  lol.  But there's no state
that could successfully secede w/o *any* of the other 49(+?) going along w/
it.  Even then i'm dubious...

> skirmishes occur before President Adamson and President Chelsea
> Clinton of the United States negotiate a peace settlement, which in

LOL.  U *are* joking!  : )

> The Barsoom Project achieves a successful Mars landing in early 2032. 
> Texican astronaut Jared Schmitz takes the first step onto Martian
> soil.

Even if i didn't infer from your email address, I could tell u're from Texas.
; )

Other than that, it looks pretty good. Just what do you have going on at
Pluto.  There's definately something fishy up there.  Both the Solomani and
Third Imperium had pluto interdicted too.   What's up IYTU?  Anyone have any
clues on teh OTU, either? : )


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 02:10:15 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Apologies

> Seriously though, if you are playing a campaign in the TNE universe then the
> Flame-thrower is a perfectly viable weapon, if you have your tech levels set
> to accommodate such.

Not really.  The only difference w/ TNE is the upper cap is a bit lower.   TL
12 is what TL15 was to the Imperium...  Highest commonly available.  Most
common overall is Oriflammes TL9 compared the Imperiums TL12 (isn't that
right?).

Maybe for teh Wilds, but not for the RC, much less the Hivers or the Spinward
States.


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:29:38 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Moderated list proposal

I hate to say this but I suggest that this list become a moderated list,
possible like Flight sim forum at delphi or similar.  I am tired of seeing
people carrying on like two bob watches(Cheap watches with a dingle)
carrying on petty disagreements with increasing vehemence.

Is this something we can do?

And sod free speach.  I am not on the TML for that.

Colin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:40:03 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

Tue, 29 Dec 98 20:46:17 -0600, "Eris Reddoch" <<eris@gulf.net>

>As much as I've enjoyed Rob's GTrav vehicles, do you know what I'd

>*really* like to see?  A few example GTrav characters, that's what!


Well, tell you what, I'll post my Droyne Sport below (this was

in my GTrav campaign before the book came out, but a lot will

fit...


>We old Travheads need some examples and some

>explanations that weren't there.


>Just how much skill does a Pilot need, and in which skills to equal

>a Pilot-1 or a Pilot-4? 


Well, the only exact thing is the odds of making a roll (as per
the table in Basic).  What is considered sufficient can very.
A low level realistic campaign will consider 18 quite impressive
while a high level cinematic one will have skills over 20...

That being said, my experience is that you need a skill of
12 to be seen as "competant".  I've always equated this to
Skill-1.  OTOH, in a physical skill 18 is very high.  In
some compaigns nobody will be this high, in others you may
get a bit over.  For mental skills 18 is a bit more reachable,
since the progression is flatter (but still pretty darn good),
I few people will get his high and a skill of 20 is something
that only a few characters will reach.  Since, in the games
I've played, skill-4 was the highest I saw, I always equated
these to that.


> What about an Engineer..which skills and

>what levels does he need?


For a ship you definately need Mechanic (Jump Drive), Mechanic 
(Power Plant) and Mechanic (Manuever Drive).  I've seen 
Engineering (Vehciles) which I think is the skill to fix
the misc parts of the ship (airlocks, hull breaches, etc.)
But as a GM I've been thinking of letting players use any
mechanic skill for these kinds of routine things.

>  Merchant skills aren't the same, how do
>you compensate?


How so?  A Merchant 15 is as good a merchant as Mechanic (Power
Plant) 15 is at being a mechanic.


>What about combat skills...do they need to be
>higher than non-combat skills, as implied in the B book?


Well, they only need to be higher because you are generally
keen not to die and so want to make sure you suceed.

>

>Then let's talk about task levels... ;->


Well, your task level is to roll under your skill.  Now
you apply modifiers.  I came up with the following to
help me decide...


<fontfamily><param>New_York</param><bigger><bigger> 0 standard
- -2 tricky
- -4 hard/difficult
- -6 very hard
- -8 formidible
- -10 almost impossible
</bigger></bigger></fontfamily>>

>...but, I *would* like to see some example characters with
>explanations as to why you designed them the way you did.

Osseskil


His background was that his Oytrip was planning on expanding
into trade and had sent him out to scout out the Spinward Marches.


ST	9
DX	13	
IQ	13
HT	11


The racial package I used had a -3 to ST, I bought it up
a couple of levels so he could at least use some weapons
without recoil problems.  He wasn't primarily a combat
character, but he also got -3 hit points so I bought
up HT so he would have at least a decent chance of making
a roll to stay conscious or alive (if I was doing it again
I might have gone with a 12).  He needed to be good at a lot
of skills so I gave him an IQ and DX of 13.


The Racial package gave him the following advantages.

Night Vision (1/2 Dark. Pen.)
Claws
Invisibility
Winged Flight
Peripheral Vision


Because I wanted him to be able to fit into an existing group 
that had most thing covered, and because he was a Sport, I
wanted him to be able to do a lot of different things so
he could full in as needed...

Skills		pnts	typ	level
Armoury	(Vehicle Weapons)	1	MA	12
Armoury  	(Spaceship Weapons)	0.5	MA	11
Astrogation		0.5	MA	11
Computer Operations		0.5	ME	12
Cooking		0.5	ME	12
Driving	(ATV)	2	PA	13
Electronic Op.	(Comm.)	0.5	MA	11
Electronic Op.	(Sensors)	1	MA	12
Electronics	(Grav Vehicles)	2	MH	12
Engineer	(Manuever Drive)	0.5	MH	10
Engineer	(Ship Powerplant)	1	MH	11
Fast Draw	(Holster)	0.5	PE	12
Flying		1	PA	12
Free Fall		2	PA	13
Galanglic		1	MH	11
Gunner	(AutoCannon)	1	PA	14
Gunner	(Beam Weapons)	2	PA	15
Gunner	(Other Space Ship)	0	PA	13
Gunner	(Other Vehicle)	0	PA	12
Guns, Accelerator Rifle		1	PE	15
Guns, Gauss Gun		0.5	PE	14
Guns, Pistol		1	PE	15
Guns, Rifle		0.5	PE	14
Interstellar Astrogation		1	MH	11
Mechanic	(Fuel Cell/Elect. Motor)	1	MA	12
Merchant		0.5	MA	11
Navigation		2	MH	12
Oynprith		1	MA	12
Piloting	(Grav Vehicle)	4	PA	14
Piloting	(Interplantary)	1	PA	12
Piloting	(Interstellar)	0.5	PA	11
Survival (Plains)		0.5	MA	11
Vacc Suit		1	MA	12
Zero-G Combat		2	MA	13
Aslan		1	MH	11
Savoir Faire (Aslan)		0.5	ME	12


The racial package gave him as disads...

Fragile			-

Obedient			-


And I took...

Overconfident			-10
Comp. Beh., Save Money			-5
Minor Greed			-5
Quirks			-5
SoD, Friends and Companions			-5
Stubborness			-5


______________________________

summers@alum.mit.edu

(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in
California.)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1330
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1331



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Noble nobility
Re: [CS] Question regarding PE economics
Holy days
Re: Idea Stealing
Re: Noble Nobility
Re: Traveller World Building
An Open Letter (was: SPAM ALERT etc.)
RE: Moderated list proposal
Peace on the TML, Goodwill towards ... ?
Re: Overthrowing Government? 
Drawing the Line
Re: Kobolds=Vargr?
Re:  Long night / Solomani Rim Data
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline
Re: Long Night
Re: World Builder Deluxe 
A subtle hint; TD1320
Re: Flying a grav vehicle
re: Full Crew Present
Re:  LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Re: Flying a grav vehicle
Re: GT Shipyard
Re: GT Shipyard
Re: High Guard its Product

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 03:11:15 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Noble nobility

Andreas Reimer writes:

>Thad Coon, what kind of nobility 'theory' do you search ? A set
>of values which are the basis for the noble`s conduct or the
>exact code of behaviour, like imperium wide customs and oddities
>of noble life (like no psionics and no green hair for nobles) ?
>basis, or 

I'm thinking of a code of behavior that expresses a set of
values.  Much of the discussion here seems to be centered around
generalities such as "Duty, honor, and loyalty" and "obligee de
noblesse". I would expect political and ethical theorists of the
Imperium to be more specific in outlining what a noble ideally
should and should not do.

  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 03:11:21 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [CS] Question regarding PE economics

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

>Trade partners.
>I'm thinking of restricting the worlds which can be counted as
>tradepartners. To me it makes no sense that planet Dirtball with
>its E class starport and 20 inhabitants should count as a viable
>trade partner for planet Powerhouse with its A class starport
>and 2 billion inhabitants (trading with Dirtball should not 
>increase powerhouse's GWP by 10%0. Therefore I'm thinking of
>putting a limitation on the worlds which may be considered as
>trade partners.

I've noticed the same problem, and your notion of restricting
trading partners seems to be a good idea. I'd look at ruling that
SomeWhere needs to have at least 5% of Powerhouse's GDP before
SomeWhere can be considered a significant trading partner of
Powerhouse.

  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 03:11:24 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Holy days

Jason Kemp wrote:

>ObTrav:  Many of the alternative religions currently being
>practiced on this planet we call home center around an
>observance of the nature cycles of the Wheel of the Year. 
>Shamanism, Druidism, Wicca, et al, give significant honor to the
>passage to the seasons and the year.  These religions observe
>both the Winter and Summer Solstice, and the Spring and Autumn
>Equinoxes, as well as intermediate Holidays based on planting
>and harvest times, roughly halfway between each of the
>astronomical phenomena listed before.

>When Terrans go into space, first into their own solar system,
>and later, across the interstellar reaches, how do they handle
>the changes induced by new worlds, with different seasons and
>different length years?

For that matter, most of the mainstream religions have holy days
tied to the lunar and solar cycles of earth.  How would someone
on a moonless world with a different year and length of day
calculate the date of the Jewish passover or Christian Easter? 
Would they keep compatibility with earth dating and lose the
all connection with the natural cycles of the planet, follow the natural
cycles and sacrifice the earth standard calendar, or try some compromise?

 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 03:11:27 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Idea Stealing

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:

<< Betsy Moon you can keep. >>

>I did like the "Tale of Paksennarion" trilogy. I loved the
>"bootcamp in Middle Earth" theme, though I can't figure out how
>to use it in a Traveller setting, except maybe as an off world
>mercenary training locals on a TL 0-1 world...

I liked that trilogy, too, but I don't see a big role for that
particular theme in Traveller.
The nobility in her Familias Regnant universe ("Hunting Party",
"Sporting Chance", "Winning Colors") looks a lot like the
Imperial nobility.  They also deal with problems of cloning nobles
and the social implications of extended lifespans. She uses rejuvenation
instead of anagathics, but the issues are similar. The Navy in those and
the spinoff series ("Once a Hero", "Rules of Engagement") looks a lot like
the Imperial Navy, too.
  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 03:11:31 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Noble Nobility

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>No. Common law is more along the lines of all the old precedents
>and the like. Court rulings *not* based on the written law
>become part of the common law. And they can be hell to change...

But isn't that how common law does change? A persuasive lawyer
makes a convincing case that the "common law" as accepted is not
fair in his particular case, and a judge issues a ruling which
sets a new precedent. If the new precedent is followed instead of the older
ones, common law changes slightly.   
IIUC, in most US law schools, Constitutional Law has much less to do with
the text of the constitution, than with the body of precedents and "common
law" that have grown up around it.

>Confucianism leads to a *quite* different setup than what we'd
>think of as "nobles". In the real world it led to the Chinese
> Mandarins. Which is a system of *bureaucracies* rather than
> nobles. To give you an idea how ingrained bureaucracy is into
> Chinese culture, their religions had a "heavenly bureaucracy"!

>The essence of becoming a Mandarin was learning a bunch of
>required material and passing exams on it. Said material being
>Confucian philosphy that had little or nothing to do with the
>requirements of the actual *job*. Shades of the civil service
>exams!
  
Perhaps those who applied the label "Confucius of the 24th century" had no
better grasp of Confucianism than I do. Someone correct me if I am wrong,
but my picture of Confucius is that of a moral and ethical
philosopher, with an intellectual approach to proper principles
of government. I also understand that he believed in "heaven" or
"the gods" but claimed no expertise in those subjects.  His
philosophy eventually became highly influential in Chinese
government.
That's about as far as the resemblance goes. I'd attribute the adaptation
of the moral principles to a noble-style government to a much later Sylean
writer.

   

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 03:11:35 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>What you *really* have to deal with in the above are "biomes".
> An old intro to ecology book I borrowed once had this chart
> listing all the land-based biomes on Earth. The controlling
> factors are average yearly temp and average yearly
> precipitation. 

I have several biology textbooks plus an encyclopedia which
discuss these same issues, in greater or lesser detail. It's one reason for
including altitude. I would also prefer an average yearly temp to highs-
and-lows.  "Biomes" are primarily determined by plant cover, and
some of the Terrain types in Traveller do correspond roughly to
biomes.  You can only go so far, though, because you might not have
conifers or grasses any more than you have lions and clams in a different
world's biology.  A broad similarity based on similar ecology and
environment falls along the same lines of reasoning as the Animal encounter
generation.

>The problem with this is that it means that vegetation depends
>on *weather*, while weather depends to some extent on
>vegetation! Remember, the Sahara *was* forest and grasslands.
> Overgrazing killed the vegetation (and still is!) resulting in
>the spread of desert. 

How certain is it that it was overgrazing and not a change in climate
associated with the end of the last ice age?
For world-building purposes, I'd call temperature and humidity
the primary determiners of vegetation type. Dependence of weather on
vegetation would be a second order effect.

>Anyway, the point (and problem!). Is that a lot of this stuff is
>interdependent. 

True...but this is a game, not a PhD thesis. My philosophy is
that if a little added realism means a lot more complexity,
forget the complexity and keep it simple. OTOH, if a little bit
more complex means a lot more realistic, then go for the realism.
  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:14:02 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: An Open Letter (was: SPAM ALERT etc.)

Okay I've sat on my hands through all of this, but no longer. Now please 
excuse me shouting but....

HEY YOU GUYS, COULD YOU ALL STOP IT.

I've select a few choice examples of the quality of postings of late and for
crying out loud every single one of you should be ashamed of yourselves

****************************************************************

>Clif, I have to put this to you simply...  I know this will hurt you... 
>But, I think the entire TML hates you...  If you were a race, I think even
>the most liberal member of the TML would say, "Wipe it out."...  Clif, I am

****************************************************************

>>Did you read?  He didn't say his problem was paying for the diapers.  It
>>seemed he was having trouble finding a new maker.
>>
>I have no wish to get into a war with you about how far you are up your
>mamma's.

****************************************************************

>>...except that this isn't "commercial" email and the man is asking for help
>>for an obviously crippled youngster in a country with a lower per capita
>>income.

>If he's in that bad shape, why not sell his computer?

****************************************************************

These posting don't even have anything to do with the matter at hand, they 
(IMNSHO) are to do with a dislike of a particular individual which resembles
the worst of Vargr pack mentality. Now said individual may have said some
*really* stupid and even offensive things, but there is absolutely no call for
this.

And for said individual, you don't get off either, you are simply provoking
these attacks. You may have been right royally toasted over some comments
and hauled across the coals by "the head"; but you are simply provoking
these attacks. How about trying something novel like acting responsibly and
making meaningful contributions to debates at least a little related to Traveller.
If you find something sufficently annoying that you can't control yourself and
keep on your hands, just say it once and say it intelligently and leave it at
that. Most people here are intelligent enough to actually see the obvious and
figure out what going on.

Now I will get off my soapbox and convert it into a racer for my children (a
much better use) and hope that the level of posting can rise above that which
I would expect from those children.


Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:08:35 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: Moderated list proposal

I would hate to see the list need formal moderation.  We usually can work
through these rough spots.

douglas


- ----------
From: 	Colin Hutchinson[SMTP:chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au]
Sent: 	Tuesday, December 29, 1998 11:29 PM
To: 	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 	Moderated list proposal

I hate to say this but I suggest that this list become a moderated list,
possible like Flight sim forum at delphi or similar.  I am tired of seeing
people carrying on like two bob watches(Cheap watches with a dingle)
carrying on petty disagreements with increasing vehemence.

Is this something we can do?

And sod free speach.  I am not on the TML for that.

Colin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:17:40 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Peace on the TML, Goodwill towards ... ?

Perhaps it's time to step back a bit.  Refocus on the reason for the TML
(remember...Traveller?) and (perhaps) adjust our mail filters.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 03:41:01 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Overthrowing Government? 

> At 07:37 PM 12/29/98 -0500, Clif wrote:
> 
>Did it REALLY collapse?  Or were things simply reorganized?

Under the late, unlamented 'Old Regime', they would *NEVER* have allowed 
Yeltsin on tv looking as bad as he does.  And they would *NEVER* shown the 
power struggle for his successor.  And under *no* circumstances would they 
have allowed anybody outside of the Supreme Soviet to see just how bad things 
really *are* there.

All in all, it looks like a collapse to me.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:30:24
From: Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it>
Subject: Drawing the Line

I'm near the end of _Mason & Dixon_, by Thomas Pynchon. It proved a
difficult and lengthy read (English is not my primary language, and 1998
was a little scarce in free time) but I liked it a lot.

The novel is a mostly fictional cronichle of the various adventures of the
two English Astronomers, which were commissioned to define the boundary
between Pennsylvania and Maryland in the 18th Century.

In the novel, they set course using compass, sextant and other instruments,
and were followed by a crew of axemen and engineers which cleared a path
through forests, measured distances using chains and set pillars to fix the
various points along the line.

I'm wondering if this could be a good idea for a Traveller scenario.
Obviously it only makes sense on a low-tech planet (GPS works best than
chains and pillars). Two (or more) states on a balkanized, low TL planet
could ask a party of engineers to use high tech instruments to trace a
boundary across a continent. The line should be easily recognizable without
using high TL instruments (no radio beacons, laser, satellites) and would
cross various different terrains, obviously teeming with more or less
hostile fauna and natives.

I think that a small craft (a Scout, for example) could act as a sort of
orbital relay base, but most of the work should be on the ground, and even
with TL 12-13 stuff cutting down trees and setting artifical landmarks
should require a lot of work.

This could be a good scenario for a Scout team. The referee may easily
introduce techincal, diplomatic and even military complications along the way.

Any further ideas on this?





__  Paolo Marino  __          |Inrete Games Page: www.inrete.it/games/gms.html
 mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred) | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 05:53:26 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Kobolds=Vargr?

Legate Legion wrote:

> > From: Clif <brclif@digital.net>
> > Subject: Re: Kobolds=Vargr?
> >
> > I had thought that kobolds looked more like fanged yodas with longer
> > limbs...
>
> Now, when I have promised not to Plasma Blast Clif, he gives me such a good
> opening....  *weg*
>

LOL.

Speaking of Kobolds and Vargr . . .

Now that there is a great new mutliplayer capable game where you can fight
Kobolds by the score (Baldurs Gate), I'm thinking that a similar game with a
Traveller theme, with Vargr Corsairs replacing Knee-binting Kobolds, and
certainly improving on them, would be a knock out.

I want to play Traveller like this!  :-)

</rant>

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:06:46 +0800
From: Michael Bailey <mickb@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re:  Long night / Solomani Rim Data

>Is there a web page on this subject or can the list fill me in?

>I am wondering about a timeline for the LN and any history/background for
>the Solomani rim during this period.

>I am also interested in the end of the night and Solomani contact with the
>3I.



Try my (perennially) unfinished pages at
http://www.iinet.net.au/~mickb/UP/frameset.htm

Unfortunately, work and study commitments have drasstically cut down on the
time available to work on 'Unbroken Pride', but one day...




Slainte Mhaith



Mick Bailey
mickb@iinet.net.au
solomani.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:26:03 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline

From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
> > In 2023, the former US state of Texas, under the direct of charismatic
> > Texan Republican party leader Moses Adamson, secedes from the United
> > States to form the Greater Republic of Texas.  Minor military
> 
> I don't think so!   It would be impossible for teh second rate units and
> equipment of any guard unit to hold off any kind of assault from a componet of
> the regular forces 
> I'd like to see anything Texas puts out that could match the USMC or USAF or
> USN.
> Course, i see you're a Texan... no offense  ; )  lol.  But there's no state
> that could successfully secede w/o *any* of the other 49(+?) going along w/
> it.  Even then i'm dubious...
> 
> > skirmishes occur before President Adamson and President Chelsea
> > Clinton of the United States negotiate a peace settlement, which in
> 
> LOL.  U *are* joking!  : )

I think the point is that it wasn't a full scale war.

Yes, there is the precedent of the Civil War, but I suspect there would be
political difficulties sending the armed forces in to work over a whole
state.  If it was done carefully and democratically, it might be possible
to convince the US government that the game wasn't worth the candle.

Think about it:  would you like to see another Civil War?  Mightn't it be
possible that enough people in the other states felt that letting Texas go
was a lesser evil than sending the troops in?

That's what I suspect happened.

As for the Chelsea Clinton joke:  fine, but it won't age well.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:35:01 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Long Night

From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> Here's a timeline that I've worked out for MTU. I don't guarantee that it
> is 100% canonical, but it's close.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>      -2204      Hiroshi Estigarribia establishes the Rule of Man.
>      -2177      Estigarribia's  son  is  proclaimed  Emperor Hiroshi II.
>      -2170?     After  consolidating  his  position Hiroshi II transfers
>                 the government from Dingir and Vland to Hub/Ershur.

According to Alien Module 6 (Solomani) Estigarribia was succeeded by his
chief of staff.  It's not clear that this was his son, and, unless the
Terran Confederation had instituted hereditary succession in the Navy (???)
it probably wouldn't have been, IMHO.

Otherwise, this is pretty cool material.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:17:29 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: World Builder Deluxe 

 "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote:

>The ability to load Trav Tools format sectors (*.UWP files).

The ability to load IGS2 files for cross platform use.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:40:04 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: A subtle hint; TD1320

>(Designed with GT Shipyard: GURPS Traveller's Starship Design Software.
>Copyright Robert Prior, 1998)

Watch the list for announcements.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:02:54 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

 Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com> wrote:

>Yeah, this possiblity is mentioned in the Darrien Alien Module.
>Pre-Maghiz planetary transport was virtually all gravitic in nature. The
>EM pulse knocked out all of the contragrav units, causing the vehicles
>to drop like rocks. After the disaster, and as a result of the massive
>loss of life, all "modern" Darrian transportation has been designed as
>winged craft capable of glideing in the event the contragrav fails.

Most of my designs for CG vehicles for 101st Spaceborne use 'chutes as a
back up.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:13:39 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Full Crew Present

Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote:

>I'd like to announce the completion of the Smith Family crew complement.
>Skyler Smith (middle name still under negotiation), born 3:56am Dec 27th, 7
>pounds 14.5 ounces. Barring further developments, her skills of looking cute,
>recieving cuddles and napping should round out our party's skill
>requirements.

Congrats - hope all is well.

When will you post the stats? ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:39:47 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re:  LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

David Smart <warlock@imagin.net> wrote:

>> I am looking for what is considered the best window character generation
>> program on the Net. I would prefer T4 generation rules, but I am looking
>> for them all. Any help would be appreciated.

Mac owners (and PC owners who can run hypercard stacks) should try Rob
Prior's excellent MegaCharacter Hypercard stack at

http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/RPS.html

This requires Apple's freeware hypercard reader.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:01:43 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca> wrote:

>        The CF-18 has a similar concept;  if the pilot goes out cold (ie: no
>joystick input) and altitude dips below 500, the computer takes over and
>hauls for 10000 and flies figure-8s until the pilot takes control again.

Or the fuel runs out... :-(

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:36:38 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: GT Shipyard

JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:

>Good feature to add: the ability to define new module types, at least as far
>as being
>able to account for mass and cost.
>
>I can be fairly certain that at least one of the upcoming G:T sourcebooks will include
>some module types that weren't in the core rules.

The feature is already in the Alpha test version.

IIRC you can add up to 10 different types of custom module in numbers,,

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:43:05 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: GT Shipyard

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote:

>GT Shipyard already has that capability (guess I should have mentioned
>it). Dom Mooney gets the pint for suggesting it first.

If I ever get to Canada..... ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:20:44 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: High Guard its Product

Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com> wrote:

>>See - only the truly faithful can stay on the path to enlightenment through
>>the the Guidance of Book 5, Adventure 5 and Supplement 9. ;-)
>Hah! Thats blasphemy. True guidance and wisdom can only come from the
>MT-Boxed set.
>Any more is heresy, any less falls short of true divinity!

But MT is just the compilation of all the previous good books with
commentary (analagous to the Old Testament and New Testament...). Aside for
combat and the strikerisation of HG I see no differences, except the errata
(*).

(*) almost as good as the King James Bible edition which stated 'Thou shalt
commit adultery'. Oops!

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1331
***********************************

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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1332



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra
TML is degenerating.
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long)
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra 
[OT] Re: SPAM ALERT!
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.
HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
Re: TML is degenerating.
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra 
[none]
New Year's Resolution
Re: TML FAQ Notice
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Traveller World Building

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:28:15 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

 "Clif" <brclif@digital.net> wrote:

>The Pope, however, is on record as saying that if interplanetary
>colonization became possible, they would try to convert alien life to Roman
>Catholicism.

'The Sparrow' by Mary Alos Ferrar (I think that's the surname - will have
to check) is all about a Jesuit mission by STL ship to a world in a nearby
system; it's quite an interesting read too.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 06:40:00 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: TML is degenerating.

The TML appears to be degenerating. How lovely.

C'mon folks, get a grip.

Whatever Clif has done to some of you, please let it die.

As for this "Spam"... Is it really worth getting so pissy and bent out of
shape over? Really. Unless I've missed something, the post was made several
days ago and probably would have gotten little attention if it wasn't for
Clif getting involved. It's just really not worth going to bat over
something that really wasn't all that inconvenient in the first place.


I am a tireless fighter for free speech on the TML, but this isn't even a
matter of free speech. This is a matter of schoolyard clique mentality run
wild and it's downright shameful. I'm not trying to trivialize the fact that
Clif insulted some folks... Just please forgive and forget. It's foolish to
drag this thing out. It's already gone on longer than it should.

I just wish everyone would just relax a bit and let the whole thing just
die.

Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:15:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long)

In mail you write:

> 1960's
>
> *First lunar landing by US on June 21, 1996.

July 21, 1969. I can look up the exact time if you need it. :-)

> 1970's
>
> The timeline of the Traveller Universe begins to slowly depart from
> the Real World's timeline in 1978.  The division becomes more apparent
> at the turn of the 20th Century.

I'd say the best way to get to Traveller would be to *not* cancel the
other 12 Apollo mission, and to continue using Saturn Vs or one of the
planned follow-on boosters. 

> States constructs a small base on the Martian moon of Deimos that same
> year, the Aries Station.

That should be Ares (Mars) as opposed to Aries ( a sign of the Zodiac).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 04:15:59 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra 

>This gets away from some of the traditional issues about religion - it's a
>cult of knowledge, rather than one of life, or of death, or of right and
>wrong. But it fulfils the role in a Traveller campaign of a big organised
>religion, while remaining very much founded in the Traveller background,
and
>without particularly offending anyone. It is also an endless cheap source
of
>plotlines. I have a longer write-up. If anyone's interested I'll try and
fix
>it up and post it.
>M


I'd like to see this- please post it, or send it to me privately if others
don't want
to see it...

I thought I'd throw in my 2 creds on this topic as well...

I think that Earth's religions and holidays would be taken with the
individuals
to the New Worlds much the same way that immigrants brought them to the
US. with them.
They wouldn't change incredibly (if at all), and would still be celebrated
according
to earth's cycles. These would be a "Fundamentalist" type people- planets
may
well be discovered and colonized with the principles, or activities of the
religion/s
in mind.

A second group would be the Natives of the planets encountered. I think that they
would tend to have their own religions, philosophies, etc. Some religions would be
bent on "teaching them the light" and subjugating them, while others may accept
theirs as just another religion.
Some of these natives would join the "new religions" and there may even be
political reasons behind these (Thinking of Japan's history of changing religions
to keep any single one from having too much power in their society.)
Others would consider the new religion/s to be competition to their own beliefs
and the nature of competition would run from mild rivalry, to outright warfare.

I think that many of the Colonists would become worshippers of the religions of those
planets that they landed on. Believing the "truths" of the natives to be more accurate
than those of their own religions and cultures.

And, yet another group, would decide that bits and pieces of all of the new
religions mix with the old to create New Age religions of different types. Or
simply all are "thrown out" for newer ideals and such.

As for holidays, those which are of a religious nature would probably be celebrated
by these various groups according to which of the above "methods of worship"
they chose to participate in...
Other holidays would probably be taken with colonists to their new worlds, and
celebrated by the Earth calendar- that way when they get a Merry Christmas (for
example) from home, they're celebrating Christmas on their new planet as well.
Then historical events on each individual world would probably create new holidays,
and many holidays of the worlds that people were on would get celebrated for
political, social, or religious reasons as well.

The variations on what the Colonists and Natives would do are about the same
as the variations that have appeared on earth, exponentially increased by the
number of planets that were colonized, and the conditions involved in that
colonization- I would think.

Later.

Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
http://www.gryffon.com/leta
for all your role-playing needs
ICQ. 8004143

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:26:33 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [OT] Re: SPAM ALERT!

"Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

>If he's in that bad shape, why not sell his computer?

Because:

1) it may not be his - it could be his employer's.

2) it will hardly cover the cost of treatment.

3) You are assuming he can get a reasonable return on the price of his
hardware.

>Cheers,

It read more like was 'bah, humbug!'

There again, maybe I'm a little backward in thinking that I'll let slip a
spam from someone making an appeal to raise money for their sick child.

Of course, it could all just be a money grubbing hoax in which case let
loose the dogs of war.

Anyway, for the record;

1) Unlike Legate's comment, I don't hate Clif. He annoys me  (certainly a
while ago but he seems to be calming down). Personnaly, if I got to commit
Xenocide on anything it'd be the K'Kree.

2) Reading the posts previous to this, I thought I'd let it (the spam)
slide, but you seem to be using it as an excuse to flame 'Clif', which
behaves in the way you objected to when he did it with respect to Jesse. I
feel in this case you're being harsh. However, I would advise Clif to
minimise his posts for a while to avoid flare ups like this.

3) I did ask Rob to intervene after reading the best part of a week's TML,
and he appears to have taken the warning option. IMO Clif appears to be
trying to avoid comments that were aggravating people. If he keeps it up
that's fair enough, if not I would happily support Rob M removing him. So
give him a chance?

All the best,

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 07:18:31 -0600
From: "James Pearson" <jdpearson@wr.net>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

Whare are these tables?

> Well, the only exact thing is the odds of making a roll (as per
> 
> the table in Basic). 


 -- James Pearson
"The purpose of a referee is to present obstacles 
for players to overcome as they go about seeking 
their goals, not to constantly make trouble for them.
This is a very subtle distinction ..."

The Traveller Book, p. 12

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4089

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:31:46 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

This is humor only people at MIT...or ont he Traveller Mailing list...can
appreciate.  Ravioli rail guns anyone?

While humorous in primary intent, this article also contains important
information about impact effects at vars. speeds...of a can of ravioli.

- ------- Forwarded Message
>
>To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
>Subject: Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
>Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:43:20 -0500
>From: glen mccready <glen@qnx.com>
>
[snip forwards]
>> There was still one aspect of the whole concept of a ravioli-loaded
>> railgun type wepon which we, lolling about late on a weeknight, with
>> only a few neurons randomly firing, could not resolve.  Would a chunk
>> of metal (can of ravioli) impacting another, larger, rest mass
>> structure (star destroyer) produce an "explosion" effect, or simply
>> punch an appropriately shaped hole as it passed through?  Bill?
>
>What am I, the neighborhood blast physicist???  Well, maybe... :-)
>
>It all depends on speed of impact versus the speed of sound in the target
>(what is called the Mach number, where Mach 1 means the speed of sound,
>Mach 2 is twice the speed of sound, etc), and the speed of the ravioli
>versus the speed of light in the target (which I'll call the Cerenkov
>number, where Cerenkov 1 is the speed of light in anything; Cerenkov 1.3
>is the speed of high-energy protons in a water-cooled reactor (that's why
>you get that nifty blue glow), and you can get up to Cerenkov 2.4 using
>diamonds and nuclear accellerators.  In the late 40's people used to talk
>about Cerenkov numbers, but they don't anymore.  Pity.).  Lastly, there's
>the ravioli velocity expressed as a fraction of the speed of light in a
>vacuum (that is, as a fraction of "c").  "C" velocities are always between
>0 and 1.
>
>At low speeds (REAL low) the ravioli will simply flow over the surface,
>yielding a space-cruiser with a distinctly Italian paint job.
>
>Faster (still well below speed-of-sound in the target) the metal of the
>space-cruiser's skin will distort downward, making what we Boston drivers
>call a "small dent".
>
>Faster still, you may have a "big dent" or maybe even a "big dent with a
>hole in the middle", caused by the ravioli having enough energy to push
>the dent through, stretching and thinning the hull metal till the metal
>finally tears in the middle of the dent.
>
>Getting up past Mach 1 (say, 5000 feet/sec for steel), you start to get
>punch-a-hole-shaped-like-the-object effects, because the metal is being
>asked to move faster than the binding forces in the object can propagate
>the "HEY!  MOVE!" information.  (After all, sound is just the binding
>forces between atoms in a material moving the adjacent atoms -- and the
>speed of sound is how fast the message to "move" can propagate.)  From
>this, we see that WileE Coyote often reached far-supersonic speeds because
>he often punched silhouette-type holes in rocks, cliffs, trucks, etc.
>
>Around Mach 4 or so, another phenomenon starts -- compressive heating.
>This is where the leading edge of the ravioli actually starts being heated
>by compression (remember PV=nRT, the ideal gas law?)  Well, ravioli isn't
>a gas, but under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.  It is
>compressed at the instant of impact and gets hot -- very hot.  Likewise,
>the impact point on the hull is compressed and gets hot.  Both turn to
>gasses -- real gasses, glowing-white-hot gasses.  The gasses expand
>spherically, causing crater-like effects, including a raised rim and a
>basically parabolic shape.  In the center of the crater, some material is
>vaporized, then there's a melt zone, then a larger "bent" zone, and the
>raised rim is caused because the gas expansion bubble center point (the
>bending force) is actually *inside* the hull plate.  If the hull plate
>isn't thick enough, then the gas-expansion bubble pushes through to the
>other side, and you get a structural breach event (technically speaking,
>a "big hole") in the side of the space-cruiser.
>
>Compressive heating really hits the stride up around 20,000 feet/sec (Mach
>4 in steel, Mach 15 in air) and continues as a major factor all the way
>up to the high fractional Cerenkov speeds, where nuclear forces begin to
>take effect.
>
>Aside: the "re-entry friction heating" that spacecraft endure when the
>reenter the atmosphere is NOT friction.  It's really compressive heating
>of the air in the path.  As long as the spacecraft is faster than Mach 1,
>the air can't know to get out of the way, so it bunches up in front of
>the spacecraft.  When you squeeze any gas, it gets hot.  So, the glowing
>"reentry gas" is really just squeezed air, which heats the spacecraft heat
>shield by conduction and infrared.  The hypersonic ravioli can be expected
>to behave similarly.
>
>As we increase speed from the high Mach numbers (about 10 miles/sec) all
>the way up to about 150,000 miles/sec, not much different happens except
>that the amount of kinetic energy (which turns into compressive heat)
>increases.  This is a huge range of velocity, but it's uninteresting
>velocity.
>
>At high fractional Cerenkov speeds, the ravioli is now beginning to travel
>at relativistic velocities.  Among other things, this means that the
>ravioli is aging more slowly than usual, and the ravioli can looks
>compressed in the direction of travel.  But that's really not important
>right now.
>
>As we pass Cerenkov 1.0 in the target, we get a new phenomenon -- Cerenkov
>radiation.  This is that distinctive blue glow seen around water-cooled
>reactors.  It's just (relatively) harmless light (harmless compared to
>the other blast effects, that is).  I mention it only because it's so
>nifty...
>
>At around .9 c (Cerenkov 1.1) , the ravioli starts to perceptibly weigh
>more.  It's just a relativistic mass increase -- all the additional weight
>is actually energy, available to do compressive heating upon impact.  The
>extra weight is converted to heat energy according to the equation E=mc^2;
>it looks like compressive heating but it's not.
>
>[Here's where I'm a little hazy on the numbers; I'm at work and
> don't have time to rederive the Lorentz transformations.]
>
>At around .985 c (Cerenkov 1.2 or so), the ravioli now weighs twice what
>it used to weigh. For a one pound can, that's two pounds... or about sixty
>megatons of excess energy.  All of it turns to heat on impact.  Probably
>very little is left of the space-cruiser.
>
>At around .998 c, the impacting ravioli begins to behave less like ravioli
>and more like an extremely intense radiation beam.  Protons in the water
>of the ravioli begin to successfully penetrate the nuclei of the hull
>metal.  Thermonuclear interactions, such as hydrogen fusion, may take
>place in the tomato sauce.
>
>At around .9998 c, the ravioli radiation beam is still wimpy as far as
>nuclear accellerator energy is concerned, but because there is so much of
>it, we can expect a truly powerful blast of mixed radiation coming out of
>the impact site.  Radiation, not mechanical blast, may become the largest
>hazard to any surviving crew members.
>
>At around .9999999 c, the ravioli radiation may begin to produce
>"interesting" nuclear particles and events (heavy, short-lived particles).
>
>At around .999999999999 c, the ravioli impact site may begin to resemble
>conditions in the original "big bang"; equilibrium between matter and
>energy; free pair production; antimatter and matter coexisting in
>equilibrium with a very intense gamma-ray flux, etc.[1]
>
>Past that, who knows?  It may be possible to generate quantum black holes
>given a sufficiently high velocity can of ravioli.
>
>     --Bill
>
>[1]According to physicist W. Murray, we may also expect raining frogs,
>   plagues of locusts, cats and dogs living together, real Old Testament
>   destruction.  You get the idea...
>
>
>------- End of Forwarded Message
>

Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 00:16:38 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

Bravo!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:06:28 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: TML is degenerating.

>The TML appears to be degenerating. How lovely.

Again.

You've been on this list, Chris, I think as long as I have (remember the
Traveller and Xboat lists?) and know that occasionally (like monthly) the
traffic becomes completely non-traveller and at least somewhat acidic in
nature.

Several calls for sanity in the past have proven useless.  I once even had
a canned email I sent to individuals who I thought were getting completely
off-topic.  This worked for a little while (I think) but was labor
intensive.

>I just wish everyone would just relax a bit and let the whole thing just
>die.

I'd say "hear, hear" if I thought it would do any good.

There are several lists now; The Tech list, a writers list, a Classic
Traveller list (which, alas, has little or no traffic), I might be seen to
advocate an even further division into a "flame war" list, a "gurps
traveller" list, and a "designs only" list.  The problem will become the
crossposting and relevancy-questionable posts on all lists.

And then there's killfiles, or for eudora users filtering specific email
addresses to "trash".

Pete



                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:10:40 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

At 23:40 29-12-98 -0800, David P. Summers wrote:
>For a ship you definately need Mechanic (Jump Drive), Mechanic 
>(Power Plant) and Mechanic (Manuever Drive).  I've seen 
>Engineering (Vehciles) which I think is the skill to fix
>the misc parts of the ship (airlocks, hull breaches, etc.)
>But as a GM I've been thinking of letting players use any
>mechanic skill for these kinds of routine things.

When I started converting my MegaTraveller campaign over to GURPS back in
'93, I came up with the following:

     Engineer/TL (Life-Support)
     Engineer/TL (Power Plant)
     Engineer/TL (Maneuver Drive)
     Engineer/TL (Jump Drive)
     Electronics/TL (Life Support)
     Electronics/TL (Manoeuvre Drive)
     Electronics/TL (Power Plant)
     Electronics/TL (Jump Drive)

According to GURPS Basic Set, Third Edition - Revised (p 60), "a successful
roll [against Engineer skill] will let you (for example): ... diagnose a
mechanical or electrical problem; perform a repair...."  (A successful roll
against Electronics skill will let one "...diagnose a glitch; perform a
repair....")  I'm therefore not certain Mechanic skill is required, but if
so, I would include:

     Mechanic/TL (Power Plant)
     Mechanic/TL (Life Support)
     Mechanic/TL (Jump Drive)

I would include Mechanic (Manoeuvre Drive) if HEPlaR technology were being
used, but I don't think it would be necessary for thruster plates.

However, both Electronics/TL and Engineer/TL are primarily concerned with
designing the specified equipment, not with operating it on a routine
basis.  Shouldn't there also be some sort of professional skill required,
such as Starship Engineer?  And if so, should it have the required
specialties, as above, or should it just be a generic skill?


James

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:36:08 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra 

At 04:15 30-12-98 -0800, Jesse wrote:
>>This gets away from some of the traditional issues about religion - it's a
>>cult of knowledge, rather than one of life, or of death, or of right and
>>wrong. But it fulfils the role in a Traveller campaign of a big organised
>>religion, while remaining very much founded in the Traveller background,
>and
>>without particularly offending anyone. It is also an endless cheap source
>of
>>plotlines. I have a longer write-up. If anyone's interested I'll try and
>fix
>>it up and post it.
>>M
>
>
>I'd like to see this- please post it, or send it to me privately if others
>don't want
>to see it...

I'd like to see it, too....


James

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:24:16 -0500 (EST)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: [none]

>Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:28:14 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

>Quarter days and "cross-quarter" days. They are tied to the solar
>longitude, though the dates for the "halfway" observances have gotten
>tied more to traditional dates than to the actual solar position. 

>Here's the info for 1999 on Earth (for my longitude):

>Solar
>longitude       date    observance      comments
>- ---------     -----   --------------  ------------
> -45            Feb  4  ???
>   0            Mar 20  vernal equinox  defined as 0 solar longitude
>  45            May  5  beltane?
>  90            Jun 21  summer solstice
> 135            Aug  7  ???
> 180            Sep 23  Autumnal equinox
>- -135          Nov  7  ???
> -90            Dec 21  winter solstice

>These all depend on the axial tilt of the planet. And they are equally
>spaced thru the year.

Here are the pagan festivals/sabats and common/christian holiday
correspondances as I can recon them:

Feb 1 or 2 -- Imbolc -- "Groundhog's Day"
Mar 20 -- Ostara -- Vernal Equanox, "Easter" 
May 1 -- Beltaine -- "May Day"
June 21 -- Summer Solstice "?" (Memorial day weekend? Independance Day in
US? Do any other countries have a near-equivalence to this holiday?)
Aug 1 -- Lughnasadh, first harvest festival, Festvial of Grain.  
Sept 23 -- Mabon, Autumnal Equanox.  Another Harvest Festival
Oct 31, Nov 1 -- Samhain.  Final Harvest. Day to honor the dead.
"Holloween/All Souls"
Dec. 21 -- Yule, Winter Solstice.  "Christmas, Haunaka(sp?), et al..."

It is interesting to note that in the southern hemisphere the sabats are
reversed, as the seasons are reversed from those in the northern
hemisphere.  I have been told this from pagans living in Austrailia and
New Zealand.

OBTrav: How would pagan/wiccan colonists react to a world in which there
are no seasons.  Or a world which is tidaly locked?  They may have to rely
on the time on Earth. Keeping each second as acurately as they can.  This
sect may become some of the best clockmakers in the galaxy!

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 98 14:27:50 +0000
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: New Year's Resolution

Just MHO...

..I think a good number of us need to step away from the keyboards and take a deep 
breath. The signal/noise ratio of this, my favorite mailing list, is reaching a 
unprecidented level.

Unless we want this list to become moderated, or bogged down so that nothing _useful_ 
can be done on it, I think everyone needs to stop blasting each other with FGMPs (see, 
I keep up with the times). 

Not pointing any fingers...lets all just ignore those who annoy us, and move on to the 
purpose of the list - Traveller.

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:30:47 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: TML FAQ Notice

>Yeah, that was one of those useless threads I started...
>
>- --Clif
>
>
>Due to the immense amount of response on this issue, I'd like to see
>a section on Recommended Musical Selections for Traveller Gaming
>added to the TML FAQ

It's been around a few times. I can recall at least three such events.
Ditto for the "inspirational authors" thread. Which makes both a good idea
for inclusion in the FAQ.  I'd suggest using an annotated bibliography
format, rather than just a list of recommendations.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:40:54 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

OOPS. Hit send too soon.

"Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz> writes:
>I would also be interested in getting a copy of this long-sought book. (a
>long winded way of saying Me Too!)
>But postage for me would probably be more in the region of $8-10 due to
>location.

Let's take this off-list.

Anyone wishing a legal photocopy of World Builders Handbook should email
me personally and let me know that a cheque/money order is in the mail. My
expenses (the only fee I'm legally able to charge) are:

Photocopying: $5
Postage: I'll check today for all destinations.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:40:54 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

"Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz> writes:
>I would also be interested in getting a copy of this long-sought book. (a
>long winded way of saying Me Too!)
>But postage for me would probably be more in the region of $8-10 due to
>location.

Let's take this off-list.

Anyone wishing a legal photocopy of World Builders Handbook should email
me personally and let me know that a cheque/money order is in the mail. My
expenses (the only fee I'm legally able to charge) are:

Photocopying: $5

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:54:49 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com> writes:
>I have several biology textbooks plus an encyclopedia which
>discuss these same issues, in greater or lesser detail. It's one reason
>for
>including altitude. I would also prefer an average yearly temp to highs-
>and-lows.  "Biomes" are primarily determined by plant cover, and
>some of the Terrain types in Traveller do correspond roughly to
>biomes.  You can only go so far, though, because you might not have
>conifers or grasses any more than you have lions and clams in a different
>world's biology.  A broad similarity based on similar ecology and
>environment falls along the same lines of reasoning as the Animal
>encounter
>generation.

What you have are point producers (trees) and area producers (grasses).

If you can manage it, I'd like to see a system that generates a biome,
starting from the climate and working through producers to primary and
secondary consumers.

Then once that is done, I'd like it to describe the biochemistry and
physical appearance of the lifeforms!

(OK, I know that the second part is a really tall order.)

Just think of this as the biological equivalent of Bruce's Definative
Sensor Rules.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1332
***********************************

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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1333



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Terran First Contact Timeline (Texas Issues)
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra 
Sofware for download
Re: SPAM ALERT!
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline
Re: Moderated list proposal
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
T4 materials...
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
Hate Crimes!
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline
High-tech construction (was Re: Moderated list proposal)
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
World Builder Deluxe
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long) >
Re: Sofware for download 
GURPS Traveller Character
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:01:23 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Terran First Contact Timeline (Texas Issues)

My friends,

First, thanks to those who have replied already regarding
corrections to my First Contact timeline.  I have integrated the
corrections given so far, and apologize for my lack of resource
materials to insure the correctness of my pre-1978 data.  (Also,
I've corrected the 1978 entry to reflect Real World (tm) leaving TU
timeline.)  Please, continue with the comments.  I appreciate them,
and find them very helpful.

Second, regarding my folly with the Greater Republic of Texas. 
True, I am a Texan, and am very proud of my state.  For all of our
resources, in the Real World (tm), the state of Texas doesn't have
the political savvy or the military capacity to make such a
secession, nor does it want to, for the most part.  (There are those
radical few, but I prefer a more practical viewpoint.)  This was
mostly written in as homage to those on the TML who first made me
feel welcome.  They play 2300AD as well, and this political
development has its place in that timeline.

In support of the secession, let me present the following:  By 2023,
the United States has been engaged in a three-year Trade War with
Japan and other major powers of the time, and are now two years into
an eight-year long Depression.  Things are bad; the US has not yet
recovered from the economic straightjacket it has found itself in.
Moses Adamson, understanding the value of the natural resources, etc,
under Texas authority (world's largest source of Helium [West Texas];
a significant amount of domestic petroleum; supplementing or
supplying electricity to over 27 states [Nichols Power Plant,
Amarillo, TX]; agricultural production; high tech industry [Austin
and Dallas]; the coordination of the US space program [Houston Space
Center, Houston, TX]; and others I'm not currently aware of), and
seeing a means to achieve his personal goal, rallies a political
movement that promised a surge in the Texan economy.  Due to the
depression and other factors, a peace accord is settled between the
US and GRT before the situation deteriorated to war.  If the two
nations had gone to war, most assuredly the US would have won,
although at some loss in resources.  (Moses did find some support
with some radical factions that would have tried desperate maneuvers.
However, that could have been dealt with in time.)  In addition, war
tends to be good for the economy.

However, Moses Adamson, unbeknownst to the general public, had a
Special psionic power, similar to the Mule from the Foundation
series by Isaac Asimov.  He had the capacity to control minds of
those whom he met and physically touched.  One handshake was all it
took.  When President Adamson died, he left behind the legacy of the
GRT.  (Eventually, it will rejoin the US.  Even before the end of
the 21st century, the two are operating in tandem on many projects. 
The cultural inertia will eventually succeed.  However, for the
period of First Contact, they are two politically separate
entities.)

In addition, his grandson, now coming of age during the First
Contact era, shows similar psionic potential, and sees a lot of
opportunity in joining the Terran Exploration Service or the Terran
Navy after the Vilani interstellar empire Ziru Sirka is contacted by
the Starleaper I.  (Think Pocket Empires in the early days of
Solomani Exploration.  The scenario should be most entertaining.)

Third, the Chelsea Clinton line, while humorous, will get old soon. 
I will most likely remove it.  However, it does show a point: 
Margaret Inch is not the first female US President; there have been
others before her.  Also, I get a personal kick out of imagining
Chelsea's campaign slogan.  She runs Republican and starts most
speeches with "While I may be my father's daughter, I have proven
that I am not my father."  I apologize should this have offended
anyone, and hope that it is taken in the spirit of fun in which it
was intended.

Please keep the comments and suggestions coming.  I want to use 
a timeline that makes some logical sense, and provides for some 
interesting role-play opportunities.  Your comments help make it so, 
and keeps the spirit that I am striving for.  I appreciate your 
assistance and input, and look forward to hearing more.  Also, does 
anyone have any additions they'd like me to consider adding?

Thanks for your time and your input.

In Service,
Jason
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:51:52 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra 

"Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote:

> Anybody ever read Gregory Benford's short story collection 'Matter's End'?  
> Thre's a short story in it, about 3 pages long, called Proselytes, where an 
> alien race sends its missionaries to Earth to convert us 'heathens', only 
> getting shot up in the end by yet *another* alien race intent on converting 
> everybody to *their* militant religion.

There's another story I forget both the title and the author) where the 
premise is essentially that aliens land on Earth in pursuit of a
cleansing, holy war... and G*d is really on their side. We end up on
the wrong side of the line. I think the punch line of the story
is when the characters figure out where they can go for help...

- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:12:26 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Sofware for download

Folks, two favors, if you please:

First:
For a number of reasons, Freelance Traveller has chosen to make
its Computer Connection links directly to the file, rather than
asking our readers to rummage your site (often, there are no
clear directions to find the file - I've had to guess at some,
and I don't have a good record for first guesses.  This can be
frustrating).  Some of you have gotten into the habit of
including the version number in the file name.  This is bad,
because it means that you have to notify us when you release a
new version, so that we can update the URL.  Can you say "broken
links"?  The best thing to do is to keep the file name
consistent, without version numbers.  Especially if, like me, you
don't always have time to update the web pages when you upload
the software.

Second:
Somebody wanna write a review of some of the software in the
Computer Connection?

Side question:  Who has "Space" and "Space II" (the Apple II
stuff) on their web sites?
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:36:39 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!

> From: dberry@hooked.net
> Subject: Re: SPAM ALERT!
> 
> >At least "up my mamma's" we know how to read and we don't knee-jerk at
every
> >spam that comes along like some mass media stooge.
> 
> Fine.  Sell *your* computer and forward him the money.  Better yet,
> volunteer with UNICEF and go to Egypt, which will get you far away from
the
> evil government.

I think you you ask him which one is evil..

I vote that the RC is the evil government...

> *Plonk*

<Walking over & picking of our brother, Doug, & brushing him off...>

Btw, I agree with you...

> Doug, the increasingly irritated.

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:00:35 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline

On Wed, 30 Dec 1998 TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:

> Course, i see you're a Texan... no offense  ; )  lol.  But there's no state
> that could successfully secede w/o *any* of the other 49(+?) going along w/
> it.  Even then i'm dubious...

Actually, since Texas, (and California, IIRC) are unique in that they were
independent republics, not territories, before they voluntarily joined the
US, they might be able to generate enough legal legs to stand on in a
sesession action.

OTOH, since the only ones who really wnat to do it are loonies the
Republic of Texas folks or the Montana Freemen, it's unlikely to happen.
 
(and please, our resurgent right-wing of the TML, don't lecture me...those
people were common criminals the moment they started forging liens to
steal money from innocent people. I find it more than a little odd that
they are so hot about _not_ being citizens of the US and subject to the
laws of the land, but they were so damn eager to collect and spend US
dollars in their scams) 

> Other than that, it looks pretty good. Just what do you have going on at
> Pluto.  There's definately something fishy up there.  Both the Solomani and
> Third Imperium had pluto interdicted too.   What's up IYTU?  Anyone have any
> clues on teh OTU, either? : )

My guess is it's an Ancients Site, quite the seminal Ancients Site, too,
considering this is where Grampaw came to get his workers so long ago. 

Maybe the bit about finding the drive Grampaw hid ^h^h^h^h 'discovering
the principles' of the jump drive didn't happen in the asteroid belt as
all the official history claims... 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:07:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Moderated list proposal

On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:

> I hate to say this but I suggest that this list become a moderated list,
> possible like Flight sim forum at delphi or similar.  I am tired of seeing
> people carrying on like two bob watches(Cheap watches with a dingle)
> carrying on petty disagreements with increasing vehemence.
> 

No, a moderated list is NOT the answer, unless you're volunteering to
become the moderator. Killfiles and the Delete key are.

Quite simple, easy to employ, and sadly, quite necessary these days.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:22:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

ROFLMAOTIP!!!!!

Oh, man, Peter...this was a _borrowed_ computer I have to explain the spew
marks on now!!!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:23:12 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: T4 materials...

Just a general T4 question:

I know that the main T4 rulebook presented the following careers:
	Agent
	Army
	Entertainer
	Marine
	Merchant
	Navy
	Noble
	Psionicist
	Rogue
	Scholar
	Scout
And that Pocket Empires had:
	Bureaucrat
	Diplomat

Did any other T4 books present any other careers?


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:20:54 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

A good work on the below is C.S. Lewis space trilogy.  Out of the Silent
Planet, Parelandra, That Hideous Strength.  

OB Trav:  One of the books also has a great description of a planet with
atmosphere only at low altitude and very little if any at high.  Life
teems in the valleys, but only one race is able to survive up in the
heights.  Great for ideas.

Greg

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> However, there has been *much* speculation among theologians regarding
> this subject.
> 
> You see, we need to be saved because of Adam & Eve's "original sin". We
> are a "fallen" race. If an alien race hasn't fallen, they wouldn't need
> to be saved. Likewise, if they *have* fallen, it's not certain that
> they won't have been given their *own* Savior. And if his teachings
> resemble Christ's things will get *really* interesting.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:53:50 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

>>At 11:55PM local time on New Year's Eve, I will drink a toast to the
>>"Family" of the TML, black sheep and all!  :)
>>
>>Any others want to join in?
>
>I'll drink to that.  :)
>
>you won't have me next year though, because at midnight, 1/1/2000 I plan to
>be on top of Telegraph Hill screaming "I win!" at the top of my lungs.
>When I was diagnosed with HS in 95, my long term survival goal was to live
>to see 2000.  Now it looks like I'll make it.


Now I'll drink to both of these! :-) Prost!

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:57:44 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Hate Crimes!

>Clif, I have to put this to you simply...  I know this will hurt you...
>But, I think the entire TML hates you...

And why would the feelings of someone who has delusions of being an expert
at psychological warfare harm me?

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:12:04 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline

TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:
> 
> General commentary on things that caught my eye...  : )
> 
> > In 2023, the former US state of Texas, under the direct of charismatic
> > Texan Republican party leader Moses Adamson, secedes from the United
> > States to form the Greater Republic of Texas. 
> 
> I don't think so!   It would be impossible for teh second rate units and
> equipment of any guard unit to hold off any kind of assault from a componet of
> the regular forces
> I'd like to see anything Texas puts out that could match the USMC or USAF or
> USN.

With all due respect, sir, I believe that you underestimate the quality
of Army and Air National Guard units.  The 49th Armored Division,
TXARNG, is equipped with more M1 Abrams tanks (I'm not sure whether they
are vanilla M1s or M1A1s) than any Active Component division.  I don't
know what assets are found in the Texas ANG, but neigboring Louisiana
has F-15Cs, the same air-superiority fighter found in the Active
Component.  While Guard units may not spend as much time training as AC
units (of course, they also don't waste as much time doing things such
as post beautification...), the National Guard has the advantage of many
long-service members, staying in the same units for 10 years or more,
working together with the same fellow Guard members.  Contrast this with
the routine transfer of AC personnel every 2-3 years.  Finally, many AC
soldiers in Texas (for instance) have ties to Texas, which may make them
less effective fighting fellow Texans.

Having said all this, I will admit that the AC could defeat the Texas
Army and Air National Guard, given enough expenditure of resources.  The
question is, would it be worth the cost?  I don't know.  That would be a
question for the President, the Congress, and, in the end, public
opinion.

<<snip>>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:14:56 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: High-tech construction (was Re: Moderated list proposal)

>No, a moderated list is NOT the answer, unless you're volunteering to
>become the moderator. Killfiles and the Delete key are.
>
>Quite simple, easy to employ, and sadly, quite necessary these days.



Here here! I was on a list that went from lightly moderated to heavily
moderated, complete with keywords for topics and all that. The traffic
dropped by half and, frankly, it sucked.

I much prefer the mature conversation and exchange of ideas on this list
(well, with some notable lapses ...). Even if we do get off-topic
occasionally, it is normally not *too* far off, and it is also normally
quite educational.

BTW, thanks to everyone who responded to the vacc suit, flying a grav
vehicle, and imperial combat helmet posts. I found the information provided
most useful.

ObTrav: Once again, I was on the road driving, and I began to look at the
construction of bridges and overpasses. It put me in the mind to think about
high-tech construction.

In 2300AD there was a material called "construction composites" listed on
the armor rating table. Does anyone have a clue what these were supposed to
represent?

I guess more to my question -- would high-tech societies use exotic and
advanced materials for the construction of things like overpasses, bridges,
houses, and the like? Or would the old standbys of stone, plaster and wood
still see wide use? My instinct is to believe there would be a combination
of materials used, based on local availability, aesthetics, and so on. But
for things like bridges (for example) there might be definite benefits for
using a material like superdense instead of regular steel in the structure.

Oh, and does superdense rust? What about bonded and coherent superdense?

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

(Once again trying to drag the some of the list back to Traveller)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:27:03 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

>Subject: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.


>This is humor only people at MIT...or ont he Traveller Mailing list...can
>appreciate.  Ravioli rail guns anyone?
>
>While humorous in primary intent, this article also contains important
>information about impact effects at vars. speeds...of a can of ravioli.


Its true!  When I was a teen, I shot a can of ravioli at point blank range
with only a .22 and had a lot of it on my clothes, as a result.  : )

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:37:13 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:

> Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> 
> >>At 11:55PM local time on New Year's Eve, I will drink a toast to the
> >>"Family" of the TML, black sheep and all!  :)
> >>
> >>Any others want to join in?
> >
> >I'll drink to that.  :)
> >
> >you won't have me next year though, because at midnight, 1/1/2000 I plan to
> >be on top of Telegraph Hill screaming "I win!" at the top of my lungs.
> >When I was diagnosed with HS in 95, my long term survival goal was to live
> >to see 2000.  Now it looks like I'll make it.
> 
> 
> Now I'll drink to both of these! :-) Prost!

As will I! To many, many more, Doug!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:06:35 -0000
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net>
Subject: World Builder Deluxe

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:-

>The ability to load IGS2 files for cross platform use.

I am unfamiliar with that file type. Could you send me a sample file?

Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@virgin.net
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:21:21 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long) >

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

>I'd say the best way to get to Traveller would be to *not* cancel the
>other 12 Apollo mission, and to continue using Saturn Vs or one of the
>planned follow-on boosters.

And also have the UK not cancel Blue ( Ummm? can't remember name - Steel?)
and then invest in HOTOL in the mid 80's, deploying in the mid 90's.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:14:32 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Sofware for download 

> Folks, two favors, if you please:
> 
> First:
> For a number of reasons, Freelance Traveller has chosen to make
> its Computer Connection links directly to the file, rather than
> asking our readers to rummage your site

My Reavers' Deep data (in TravTools format) is availiable at my site as:

http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/traveller/reavers.zip

Standard MSDOS zip file.  When I update it, I just overwrite the file and note 
the date of last revision on the webpage itself.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:07:33 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GURPS Traveller Character

Eris' suggestion to post some characters got me thinking, so here is my
first contribution :)

There are presently three methods for generating GURPS Traveller characters.
They are:

1.) Build from scratch as a GURPS character.

2.) Build using the templates given in the GURPS Traveller book, which are
basically partially completed characters that you then customize.

3.) The UNOFFICIAL but entertaining random creation system created by Robert
M. Brown in the article "Some Classic Randomness" and published by Pyramid
Online. This system, while it is not exactly like the old Classic system (no
survival rolls, lots more skills, no "mustering out"), does allow for
varying point levels and has a good 'feel' to it. It's probably worth the
$15 for a year's subscription just for those of you who would like to use it
:)

The following is a character I created using this third method. Following
the character, I will explain how I 'tweaked'it, and special issues arising
from the use of these tables.

Randomly Generated Merchant Captain (snazzy name, eh?)    5 terms

ATTRIBUTES

ST 10 DX 12 IQ 13 HT 11

ADVANTAGES

Charisma +1, Handsome, Status 1, Courtesy Rank 5 (Captain), Wealth
(Wealthy), Reputation +1 (honest trader), Contact (broker)

DISADVANTAGES

Overconfidence, Callous

SKILLS

Computer Operation-13, Piloting (Starship)-14, (Grav Vehicle)-13 Lang:
Solomani-13 (native),
Area Knowledge (Homeworld)-13, (another planet)-13, (yet another planet)-14,
(yet another another planet)-14, Merchant-15, Electronics
(Communications)-12, First Aid-14,
Carousing-11, Electronics Operation (Commo)-14, (Sensors)-13, (Security
Systems)-13, (Weapon Systems)-12, Gambling-13, Guns (Pistol)-14*,
Streetwise-15, Gunner (Lasers)-15*, (Missles)-14*, Fast-Talk-15, Vacc
Suit-12, Mechanic (Power Plant)-13, Diplomacy-13, Administration-13,
Bribery-13**, Knife-13, Accounting-11

* Includes the +2 IQ bonus
** There is no actual "Bribery" skill in GURPS, but it is listed in the
Social skills group. If you wanted to use it, I suggest making it a
Mental/Easy skill defaulting to IQ-4; otherwise, make this something like
Savior-Faire or Fast-Talk.

POINTS

Attributes: 60 Ads: 54 Disads: -16, Quirks: 0, Skills: 72 TOTAL POINTS: 170

all in all, a good character, one I would be happy to play. His Wealth
advantage makes up for the lack of mustering out benefits (as he can buy a
LOT of stuff with 4x starting wealth of Cr 15,000), he has decent skills for
what he does, and some very interesting 'color' skills.
    I noticed that when rolling up this character, a lot of the skills came
out at odd numbers that don't really fit in the GURPS skill buying charts. I
redistributed those points to other skills to make them come out even. A GM
could just let them be and say the character is close to improving.
    This character, if he were built by the suggested guidelines, could have
up to 40 points in Disadvantages and up to 5 one-point "Quirks". This would
lower his point total to 141 points.

The tables provide not only skills but Advantages and Disadvantages,
including stat increases. The suggestion is and I agree with it, to cap
attributes at 15, otherwise a lucky roller could wind up with an 18 IQ or
some such, which is usually quite unattainable to any starting GURPS Player
Character.

Next, I'll whip up a character using the template system and post that.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:25:50 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

>>> There was still one aspect of the whole concept of a ravioli-loaded
>>> railgun type wepon which we, lolling about late on a weeknight, with
>>> only a few neurons randomly firing, could not resolve.  Would a chunk
>>> of metal (can of ravioli) impacting another, larger, rest mass
>>> structure (star destroyer) produce an "explosion" effect, or simply
>>> punch an appropriately shaped hole as it passed through?  Bill?
>>
>>What am I, the neighborhood blast physicist???  Well, maybe... :-)
>>
>>It all depends on speed of impact versus the speed of sound in the target
>>(what is called the Mach number, where Mach 1 means the speed of sound,
>>Mach 2 is twice the speed of sound, etc), and the speed of the ravioli
>>versus the speed of light in the target (which I'll call the Cerenkov
>>number, where Cerenkov 1 is the speed of light in anything; Cerenkov 1.3
>>is the speed of high-energy protons in a water-cooled reactor (that's why
>>you get that nifty blue glow), and you can get up to Cerenkov 2.4 using
>>diamonds and nuclear accellerators.  In the late 40's people used to talk
>>about Cerenkov numbers, but they don't anymore.  Pity.).  Lastly, there's
>>the ravioli velocity expressed as a fraction of the speed of light in a
>>vacuum (that is, as a fraction of "c").  "C" velocities are always between
>>0 and 1.
>>
>>At low speeds (REAL low) the ravioli will simply flow over the surface,
>>yielding a space-cruiser with a distinctly Italian paint job.
>>
>>Faster (still well below speed-of-sound in the target) the metal of the
>>space-cruiser's skin will distort downward, making what we Boston drivers
>>call a "small dent".
>>
>>Faster still, you may have a "big dent" or maybe even a "big dent with a
>>hole in the middle", caused by the ravioli having enough energy to push
>>the dent through, stretching and thinning the hull metal till the metal
>>finally tears in the middle of the dent.
>>
>>Getting up past Mach 1 (say, 5000 feet/sec for steel), you start to get
>>punch-a-hole-shaped-like-the-object effects, because the metal is being
>>asked to move faster than the binding forces in the object can propagate
>>the "HEY!  MOVE!" information.  (After all, sound is just the binding
>>forces between atoms in a material moving the adjacent atoms -- and the
>>speed of sound is how fast the message to "move" can propagate.)  From
>>this, we see that WileE Coyote often reached far-supersonic speeds because
>>he often punched silhouette-type holes in rocks, cliffs, trucks, etc.
>>
>>Around Mach 4 or so, another phenomenon starts -- compressive heating.
>>This is where the leading edge of the ravioli actually starts being heated
>>by compression (remember PV=nRT, the ideal gas law?)  Well, ravioli isn't
>>a gas, but under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.  It is
>>compressed at the instant of impact and gets hot -- very hot.  Likewise,
>>the impact point on the hull is compressed and gets hot.  Both turn to
>>gasses -- real gasses, glowing-white-hot gasses.  The gasses expand
>>spherically, causing crater-like effects, including a raised rim and a
>>basically parabolic shape.  In the center of the crater, some material is
>>vaporized, then there's a melt zone, then a larger "bent" zone, and the
>>raised rim is caused because the gas expansion bubble center point (the
>>bending force) is actually *inside* the hull plate.  If the hull plate
>>isn't thick enough, then the gas-expansion bubble pushes through to the
>>other side, and you get a structural breach event (technically speaking,
>>a "big hole") in the side of the space-cruiser.
>>
>>Compressive heating really hits the stride up around 20,000 feet/sec (Mach
>>4 in steel, Mach 15 in air) and continues as a major factor all the way
>>up to the high fractional Cerenkov speeds, where nuclear forces begin to
>>take effect.
>>
>>Aside: the "re-entry friction heating" that spacecraft endure when the
>>reenter the atmosphere is NOT friction.  It's really compressive heating
>>of the air in the path.  As long as the spacecraft is faster than Mach 1,
>>the air can't know to get out of the way, so it bunches up in front of
>>the spacecraft.  When you squeeze any gas, it gets hot.  So, the glowing
>>"reentry gas" is really just squeezed air, which heats the spacecraft heat
>>shield by conduction and infrared.  The hypersonic ravioli can be expected
>>to behave similarly.
>>
>>As we increase speed from the high Mach numbers (about 10 miles/sec) all
>>the way up to about 150,000 miles/sec, not much different happens except
>>that the amount of kinetic energy (which turns into compressive heat)
>>increases.  This is a huge range of velocity, but it's uninteresting
>>velocity.
>>
>>At high fractional Cerenkov speeds, the ravioli is now beginning to travel
>>at relativistic velocities.  Among other things, this means that the
>>ravioli is aging more slowly than usual, and the ravioli can looks
>>compressed in the direction of travel.  But that's really not important
>>right now.
>>
>>As we pass Cerenkov 1.0 in the target, we get a new phenomenon -- Cerenkov
>>radiation.  This is that distinctive blue glow seen around water-cooled
>>reactors.  It's just (relatively) harmless light (harmless compared to
>>the other blast effects, that is).  I mention it only because it's so
>>nifty...
>>
>>At around .9 c (Cerenkov 1.1) , the ravioli starts to perceptibly weigh
>>more.  It's just a relativistic mass increase -- all the additional weight
>>is actually energy, available to do compressive heating upon impact.  The
>>extra weight is converted to heat energy according to the equation E=mc^2;
>>it looks like compressive heating but it's not.
>>
>>[Here's where I'm a little hazy on the numbers; I'm at work and
>> don't have time to rederive the Lorentz transformations.]
>>
>>At around .985 c (Cerenkov 1.2 or so), the ravioli now weighs twice what
>>it used to weigh. For a one pound can, that's two pounds... or about sixty
>>megatons of excess energy.  All of it turns to heat on impact.  Probably
>>very little is left of the space-cruiser.
>>
>>At around .998 c, the impacting ravioli begins to behave less like ravioli
>>and more like an extremely intense radiation beam.  Protons in the water
>>of the ravioli begin to successfully penetrate the nuclei of the hull
>>metal.  Thermonuclear interactions, such as hydrogen fusion, may take
>>place in the tomato sauce.
>>
>>At around .9998 c, the ravioli radiation beam is still wimpy as far as
>>nuclear accellerator energy is concerned, but because there is so much of
>>it, we can expect a truly powerful blast of mixed radiation coming out of
>>the impact site.  Radiation, not mechanical blast, may become the largest
>>hazard to any surviving crew members.
>>
>>At around .9999999 c, the ravioli radiation may begin to produce
>>"interesting" nuclear particles and events (heavy, short-lived particles).
>>
>>At around .999999999999 c, the ravioli impact site may begin to resemble
>>conditions in the original "big bang"; equilibrium between matter and
>>energy; free pair production; antimatter and matter coexisting in
>>equilibrium with a very intense gamma-ray flux, etc.[1]
>>
>>Past that, who knows?  It may be possible to generate quantum black holes
>>given a sufficiently high velocity can of ravioli.
>>
>>     --Bill
>>
>>[1]According to physicist W. Murray, we may also expect raining frogs,
>>   plagues of locusts, cats and dogs living together, real Old Testament
>>   destruction.  You get the idea...


Hay Ditzie, can you make one of those ravioli railguns for your helo from
hell. If so, I'll want to get one.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1333
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1334



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Nelsoi-class Fast Liner (GTL12)
Argash-class Trade Escort
Arrikam-class Bulk Freighter
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long) >
Re: TML FAQ Notice
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
Terran First Contact Timeline: Pluto's Secret
Traveller (and Other GDW RPG) Web Site
Re: Holy days
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Micro Jumps or Insystem Transfers
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Moderated list proposal
Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:05:55 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Nelsoi-class Fast Liner (GTL12)

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:58:21 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Nelsoi-class Fast Liner (GTL12)
Nelsoi-class Fast Liner (GTL12)
Designed by Robert Prior
This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller
SHIP DESCRIPTION
Small but sleek, the Nelsoi can be found running high-priority passengers
and cargo from the Imperial Core to outlying sectors. Even at jump-6, this
is a lengthy trip. While low berths may seem odd for such a vessel, some
passengers prefer to spend the time in cryosuspension.
800-ton USL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 15 Maneuver, 56 Jump,
480 Fuel, 46 Staterooms, 9 Low Berths (holds 36 cryotubes), 2 Utility,
Sickbay, 50 cargo
Crew: 2 bridge crew, engineer, 4 gunners, 2 medics, 3 stewards
Passengers: 40 high passengers, 36 low passengers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km, Meson 0.02 million
km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 240000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
3 405-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 33, Dmg 5dx100(2), 1/2D Rng 41635 km, MxRng
124909 km, FP 7
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60
Statistics: EMass 1222.5 tonnes, LMass 1467.6 tonnes, Cost MCr 265.6, HP
64800
Performance: Accel 1.0 G, Jump 6, Air Speed 0 km/h


************8
I Get:
Statistics: EMass 1254.95 tonnes, LMass 1504.95 tonnes, Cost MCr 265.6757,
HP
60000
Performance: Accel 1.00 G, Jump 6, Air Speed 0 km/h
I thnk I have spotted the difference, are you including cost and mass of
turrets?  Also your HP seem  are off by quite a bit.

I still think you will need more bridge crew, but that is a personal thing,
they fit within the rules, but have a lot more work to do than other
designs.

You have posted a lot more, but this is the last I will check for a while,
I have other ships to check. let me know if you find the bug in your
program, ok?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:53:22 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Argash-class Trade Escort

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:34:00 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Argash-class Trade Escort
Argash-class Trade Escort
Designed by Robert Prior
This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller
SHIP DESCRIPTION
The Argash-class Trade Escort was designed to accompany merchant shipping
in dangerous areas. Its high acceleration give the Argash the legs to get
between a merchant and danger, while its tough construction and two
Iramda-class fighters are enough to give even the most foolhardy commerce
raider pause
400-ton USL Hull, DR 200, PD 4, Hardened Bridge, Engineering, 221
Maneuver, 12 Jump, 80 Fuel, 9 Staterooms, 1 Utility, Spacedock (holds 20
tons, door), no cargoCrew: 2 bridge crew, 4 engineers, 4 gunners, 2
auxiliary crew
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 160000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
6 360-MJ Lasers: Imp., Acc 32, Dmg 6dx50(2), 1/2D Rng 32726 km, MxRng
98618 km, FP 4
Note: all weapons have SS 30, RoF 1/60
Statistics: EMass 1328.3 tonnes, LMass 1443.10 tonnes, Cost MCr 102.4, HP
42300
Performance: Accel 6.0 G, Jump 2, Air Speed 0 km/h
*************
I get:
Statistics: EMass 1378.235 tonnes, LMass 1490.735 tonnes, Cost MCr
102.7539, HP
37.500
Performance: Accel 5.93 G, Jump 2, Air Speed 0 km/h


this assumes a basic bridge and Spacedock holding 5tons/space when loaded
(allong with 2.5 cargo).

if we use a command bridge instead:
Statistics: EMass 1392.56 tonnes, LMass 1492.56 tonnes, Cost MCr 113.7539,
HP
37.500
Performance: Accel 5.92 G, Jump 2, Air Speed 0 km/h
better to have *some* cargo, just in case. I have also noticed that you
designs have only minimal bridge crew.  This will result in poor
performance during combat, due to the -2 per extra task.  consider listing
which tasks will be performed by the crew members, like in the standard
form.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:38:35 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Arrikam-class Bulk Freighter

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:32:48 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Arrikam-class Bulk Freighter
Arrikam-class Bulk Freighter
Designed by Robert Prior
This starship was designed using the rules in GURPS Traveller

SHIP DESCRIPTION
***************
it would be easier to read in the standard format.



Simple bulk transport, the Arrikam is little more than a cargo hold with a
bridge and bare minimum of drive modules. Each crew member has his own
stateroom, and while some crew bunk together to sell middle passages, the
Arrikam is not rated to carry passengers.
2000-ton USL Hull, DR 100, PD 4, Bridge, Engineering, 50 Maneuver, 40
Jump, 200 Fuel, 5 Staterooms, 4 Utility, 1682 cargo
Crew: 3 bridge crew, 2 engineers
Communicators: Radio 8 million km, Laser 16 million km
Sensors: PESA 48000 km, AESA 160000 km, Radscanner 1600 km
Statistics: EMass 1000.7 tonnes, LMass 9245.8 tonnes, Cost MCr 176.8, HP
90000
Performance: Accel 0.2 G, Jump 1, Air Speed 0 km/h
********************
I get these numbers:

Statistics: EMass 1020.7 tonnes, LMass 9.433.2 tonnes, Cost MCr 176.78, HP
90000
Performance: Accel 0.21 G, Jump 1, Air Speed 0 km/h

with 1682.5 spaces of cargo.    very close, looks like jsut rounding (exept
for EMass)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:58:45 -0500
From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 00:28:53 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

In other words, "Give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's, & give unto God what is
God's"?  (I say Sergeant York today, btw, great movie)?
**************
indeed, a must see.



Sounds about right to me...  It seems when you have a decent, honorable
religion (not that I know that much about Mormonism, I am just going by the
Mormons that I know personally & they are decent, honorable people),
everyone wants to tear it down.  They go on about the fact that Mormons
keep, I think, two years supply of food handy as something evil.
*******************
well, one year is the minimum, but more if you can store it....it is good
to be able to feed the nehbors as well....

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:25:41 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long) >

>And also have the UK not cancel Blue ( Ummm? can't remember name -
Steel?)

Blue Steel wasn't cancelled, it was scrapped after several years
service. It was the UK's
tactical* nuke delivery system, and somewhere along the line someone
decided that Britain didn't need tactical nukes.

*( I say "tactical", because it was designed for launch from Vulcan's
and such, and the Vulcan fleet was never (IMO) large enough to be
considered a "strategic" resource such as SAC )

Which reminds me, anyone know if elements of SAC are still "out there"
cruising the stratosphere 24 hours a day ?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:41:32 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: TML FAQ Notice

Rob Prior wrote :
>Ditto for the "inspirational authors" thread. Which makes both a good
idea
>for inclusion in the FAQ.  I'd suggest using an annotated
bibliography
>format, rather than just a list of recommendations.

Makes sense to me.

I'd be willing to compile this section of the FAQ, if people want to
mail me their recommendations with whys and wherefores.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:48:59 -0500 (EST)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

I have read this most enlightening article and I have but one thing to
say...

Mmmm... BEEFY!

Yet another toy for the Gun-Toating-Lesbian-Aslan-Near-C-Rock-Pirates from
hell to use! :-)

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:00:08 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Terran First Contact Timeline: Pluto's Secret

Friends,

I have looked high and low, and have thus far not been able to 
discover what is hidden canonically at the outermost planet of our 
Solar System.  When designing that portion of the Timeline, I 
intentionally left it secretive and urgent, and decided to keep with 
canon from the get-go.  Therefore, Pluto had to be interdicted from 
the start.  The explosions were inspired by GT:BTC.  It seems that 
every research center explodes at least once before it makes a 
breakthrough, even the psionic ones.  Shortly thereafter, the US 
convinced the UN to hold the secret, based on whatever was discovered 
there.

My current thoughts center on the Helluva Ancient Site idea, with a
lot of things to research.  (Perhaps this is the reason Terra jumps
TLs so quickly during the early IW period, and why Terra remains so
advanced in engineering and medicine well into the future.)

Marc, Loren, do you have anything you could contribute to this 
discussion?  Or is it privileged information soon to be revealed in 
either GT:Solomani Rim or T5 SAEP: First Contact?  Or is that 
something canon will never define?

Other options could include: alternate lifeforms, alternate Elder 
race site, a one-way gateway to alternate location(s)/dimension(s) 
(or even time periods) being explored by Solomani but never 
completely grokked, or a hyperintelligent and near-immortal yet 
non-mobile lifeform/construct.

Hey, it may even be a strange ripple in the time-space continuum,
similar to the wilder Bermuda Triangle theories, that the Solomani
are trying to duplicate.  Unfortunately, they keep losing their
researchers.  :) 

So, I really didn't answer that question.  I still looking for what 
feel like a good roleplaying opportunity that fits well with my 
campaign milieu before I settle on that.  Until then...

"Hailing approaching vessel.  You are entering into UN restricted 
space.  If you do not change your course, you will be destroyed.  No 
explanations given or accepted.  This space has been restricted by UN 
order.  This is your only warning.  Prepare to open fire!"

:)

In Service,
Jason
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:03:21 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Traveller (and Other GDW RPG) Web Site

With the long New Years Day weekend coming up, if you have nothing else to
do, I invite you to come visit my new Traveller (and other GDW RPG) site at

http://members.aol.com/SFRPG/

Features include

index of JTAS
index of Challenge
producing numbers for Classic Traveller
published items list for Traveller, 2300 AD, Twilight, etc.

Let me know what you think.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:59:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Holy days

In mail you write:

> For that matter, most of the mainstream religions have holy days
> tied to the lunar and solar cycles of earth.  How would someone
> on a moonless world with a different year and length of day
> calculate the date of the Jewish passover or Christian Easter? 

The Jewish calendar *isn't* tied to the lunar/solar cycles. It was
*based* on them, but for centuries it's been based on a series of rules
that have nothing to do with astronomy. 

And the various christian churches use a method to calculate the date
of Easter that is also divorced from the actual astronomical events.
The Orthodox Churches use a slightly different calculation, but
*neither* is synched correctly with the moon.

The date of easter is *supposedly* the first sunday after the first
full moon after the spring equinox. But the date gotten by actually
using astronomical data can be as much as a month off from the one
gotten via the formulas the churches use.

There *is* talk of switching to the actual astronomical date starting
in 2000. But no one knows for sure if this will actually happen.

Islam will have *big* problems off Earth. Their months start when the
first sliver of the new moon is *observed* at sunset. You can calculate
when the next month *should* start, but it's the actual observation
that counts. And yes, this means that the month can be different in
different cities!

> Would they keep compatibility with earth dating and lose the
> all connection with the natural cycles of the planet, follow the natural
> cycles and sacrifice the earth standard calendar, or try some compromise?

Well, as noted above, Judaism and Christianity are *already* divorced
from the cycles of earth except for the day/night cycle. Islam is so
tied to them that they are going to have to make some major adjustments
when they move off planet.

I have no idea about Hindu or Buddhist issues, nor those of any other
religions. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:14:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

In mail you write:

> As for holidays, those which are of a religious nature would probably
> be celebrated by these various groups according to which of the above
> "methods of worship" they chose to participate in...  Other holidays
> would probably be taken with colonists to their new worlds, and
> celebrated by the Earth calendar- that way when they get a Merry
> Christmas (for example) from home, they're celebrating Christmas on
> their new planet as well.

This gets into one of the harder to grasp (emotionally) aspects of
living on another planet. The *day* is a different length. So is the
year. This means that (for example) on Mars, the day is about 24.66
hours. Which means that 365 earth days are 355.23 martian days. So
following the earth calendar is a *major* pain.

BTW, there is *one* bit of terminology that has already been adopted
for dealing with observations from the various Mars landers. A local
planetary day is called a "sol" (probably short for solar day) so as to
avoid confusion with the 24-hour day that we use. I figure this will
perpetuate into the future.

So to people in the future, "day" will mean 24 hours (86400 seconds).
Sol will mean a *local* planetary day unless you explicitly specific
another planet. 

Likewise hour will mean the standard 3600 second period, while some
other term will be used for the subdivisions of the sol. I'm leaning
towards "chron" as the term. For convenience, a sol will always be
divided evenly into chrons. How many will depend on the actual length
of the sol, as well as on how conveniently the sol can be divided into
work shifts and the like. Ten is a bad number in most cases because
only 2 and 5 go into it evenly, and 2 shifts or 5 shifts per sol seem
unlikely. 12 and 24 are good because they divide by 3, 4, 6, etc. 

I don't really see a need for a local time unit smaller than the chron.
More likely, just as many timeclocks do now, the chron will be divided
into hundreths (centichrons, possibly referred to as cents), or
thousandths (millichrons, or mils).

Going in the other direction, given the nature of the Imperial
calendar, I suspect that month will be relegated to a strictly local
reckoning of sols. Year will be the standard Imperial year of 365 days.
Anno will be the local year (plural is annum).

I'm willing to bet that most local festivals will be figured according
to the local calendar, whereas Imperial festivals will be on whatever
sol starts closest to the start of the Imperial date. Which means that
an Imperial (or other off planet) holiday could happen several times an
anno or only once every few annums. It all depends on how long the anno
is.

BTW, note that without the year/anno and day/sol distinctions the above
paragraph would be a *lot* more complicated!

I *am* going to write an article on this. But in the meantime, I give
permission to use the terminology in any SF material. We *need* a
standard way of talking about this stuff!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:45:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

In mail you write:

> "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote:
>
>> Anybody ever read Gregory Benford's short story collection 'Matter's End'? 
>  
>> Thre's a short story in it, about 3 pages long, called Proselytes,
>> where an alien race sends its missionaries to Earth to convert us
>> 'heathens', only getting shot up in the end by yet *another* alien
>> race intent on converting everybody to *their* militant religion.

I've read a story by David Brin? where we make contact with "galactic
civilization". And it turns out that the only aliens interested in
teaching primitives like us are *missionaries*, and they expect us to
convert before they'll teach us any of the science/technology. 

> There's another story I forget both the title and the author) where the 
> premise is essentially that aliens land on Earth in pursuit of a
> cleansing, holy war... and G*d is really on their side. We end up on
> the wrong side of the line. I think the punch line of the story
> is when the characters figure out where they can go for help...

And old theme....

I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Why so can I, or so can any man; but will they come when you do call
for them?
- - Shakespeare, King Henry IV, Part I

It's a *rude* shock to players when the native shaman/priest/whatever
calls upon the spirits/god/whatever AND GETS AN ANSWER!

   Shaman: "Va'al doesn't want you to mine here."
Player #1: "So? What's he gonna do, strike me with lightning?"
<KRAKABOOM> (lightning from a clear sky)
Player #2: (looking at the smoking patch of fused earth that used to
be player #1)
            "Uh... right. Where would Va'al like us to put the mine?"

*Justifying* the response can get tricky, but Star Trek did it enough
times. With those examples, most GMs ought to be able to do a *better*
job. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:34:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>What you *really* have to deal with in the above are "biomes".
>> An old intro to ecology book I borrowed once had this chart
>> listing all the land-based biomes on Earth. The controlling
>> factors are average yearly temp and average yearly
>> precipitation. 
>
> I have several biology textbooks plus an encyclopedia which
> discuss these same issues, in greater or lesser detail. It's one reason for
> including altitude. I would also prefer an average yearly temp to highs-
> and-lows.  "Biomes" are primarily determined by plant cover, and
> some of the Terrain types in Traveller do correspond roughly to
> biomes.  You can only go so far, though, because you might not have
> conifers or grasses any more than you have lions and clams in a different
> world's biology.  A broad similarity based on similar ecology and
> environment falls along the same lines of reasoning as the Animal encounter
> generation.

But you'll have plants/animals that fill the same ecological "niche".
The "conifer equivalent" may not look a lot like the terran equivalent,
but it will be "evergreen", tend more to wide spread, near surface
roots, and be more tolerant of cold and low precip than the "deciduous"
equivalent. And the sap will even tend to be more "resinous" because
that cuts down on water loss.

If you've got the references handy, it'd be nice to have a list of
known biomes (with a rough description of the limiting conditions for
them). Then the rest of us can try to come up with possibilities for
the less terrestrial planets/environments.

A couple recent additions I'll offer are "deep rock", and "mid ocean
vent". They've discovered that *the* most common lifeform on earth are
chemosynthetic bacteria living in micro-cracks in crustal rock. They've
been found *miles* deep. The best estimates of the total mass of such
bacteria has them outmassing the rest of the biosphere!

The mid-ocean vent biome would be the critters living around the "black
smokers". Chemosynthetic bacteria are the base of the food chain, with
some odd sponges and those enormous tube worms feeding off them. And
then the crabs and other critters feedong off the others. The earth
could get dumped into deep space and these critters would survive until
the ocean froze around them. 

And the deep rock bacteria would just metabolize ever more slowwly
until the earth cooled enough for them to freeze. But that'd take a
*long* time given the heat leaking up through the crust.

I'll bet that any planet with a *sub*-surface temp in the right range
and that was massive enough to have had liquid water for at least a
million years or so will have the deep rock bacteria. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:19:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Micro Jumps or Insystem Transfers

In mail you write:

> At 10:31 PM 12/27/98 +0000, you wrote:
>>Hi
>>
>>  Does anyone have any data concerning the use of Micro
>>Jumps, does one of these take enough fuel to do a Jump 1
>>and 7days ?
>
> Any jump, no matter what the distance, requires the standard 168 hours (+/-
> 10%).  An old sneaky trick is to jump to your current position, catching
> the enemy by surprise as they police up the battle area.
>
> IIRC, a micro jump does indeed require the same amount of fuel as a J-1.


And for those who want to *really* be "different" in their Traveller
Universe, consider that there's no reason why time as experienced on
board the ship, and out in normal space should match.

H. Beam Piper had jumps take almost no time in realspace, but the folks
on board ship experienced time during the jump... 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:02:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

In mail you write:

> Bravo!

Amen.

And I think it's a nice way to explain kinetic kill weapons to players.

And I have to wonder when Famille Spofulam will come out with their
line of "canned goods launchers" :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:23:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>What you *really* have to deal with in the above are "biomes".
>> An old intro to ecology book I borrowed once had this chart
>> listing all the land-based biomes on Earth. The controlling
>> factors are average yearly temp and average yearly
>> precipitation. 
>
> I have several biology textbooks plus an encyclopedia which
> discuss these same issues, in greater or lesser detail. It's one reason for
> including altitude. I would also prefer an average yearly temp to highs-
> and-lows.  "Biomes" are primarily determined by plant cover, and
> some of the Terrain types in Traveller do correspond roughly to
> biomes.  You can only go so far, though, because you might not have
> conifers or grasses any more than you have lions and clams in a different
> world's biology.  A broad similarity based on similar ecology and
> environment falls along the same lines of reasoning as the Animal encounter
> generation.
>
>>The problem with this is that it means that vegetation depends
>>on *weather*, while weather depends to some extent on
>>vegetation! Remember, the Sahara *was* forest and grasslands.
>> Overgrazing killed the vegetation (and still is!) resulting in
>>the spread of desert. 
>
> How certain is it that it was overgrazing and not a change in climate
> associated with the end of the last ice age?

Well, clear back in the 60s they had satellite observations showing the
steady advance of the Sahara. And they spotted some anomalies (green
spots surrounded by new desert). Investigation on the ground showed
*two* things. First, an irrigation system based on well pumped water
(present in lots of other places). Second, *fences*, to control
grazing. 

In *historical* times the Middle East has been changed from climax
forest to desert, simply by uncontrolled grazing of goats and over
harvest of timber. Lebanon used to be a *major* timber producing
region. But not only did they over harvest, but the free-ranging goats
ate the saplings. 

Grasses and trees *both* transpire *major* amounts of water. And in the
climate in the middle east and northern Africa, once the plants are
gone, the upper layers of the soil dry into a close approximation of
baked clay, and any subsurface water *stays* subsurface. And the rains
run off instead of getting absorbed. 

> For world-building purposes, I'd call temperature and humidity
> the primary determiners of vegetation type. Dependence of weather on
> vegetation would be a second order effect.

It could probably be handled by a precipitation modifier for
vegetation. And a suggestion that in some cases it might be a good idea
to check the vegetation against the adjusted precip.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 14:14:28 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Moderated list proposal

At 03:29 pm 12/30/98 +0800, you wrote:
>I hate to say this but I suggest that this list become a moderated
list,
>possible like Flight sim forum at delphi or similar.  I am tired of
seeing
>people carrying on like two bob watches(Cheap watches with a dingle)
>carrying on petty disagreements with increasing vehemence.
>
>Is this something we can do?

	I would much prefer not to go to a moderated list. I like to think
that I, and most of the other members on the list, are adults who can
choose for ourselves what to pay attention to and what not, rather
than expect one person to predigest and censor everything for us.

	Problems like this seem to crop up annually on the list. Usually,
they die down when enough people decide to just not respond to
flagrant provocations. For those rare instances where an individual
continues to be offensive and launches new attacks even in replies to
unrelated emails, the list moderator can remove that one individual
from the list.

	Again, I would rather react appropriately to problem posts/posters
AFTER giving them a chance, instead of trying to pre-censor
everything.
- -- ------------------------------------------------------------ --
   Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj 
   House for sale in Colorado Springs!
   http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:05:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

In mail you write:

>>Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:28:14 PST
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>>Subject: Re: Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra
>
>>Quarter days and "cross-quarter" days. They are tied to the solar
>>longitude, though the dates for the "halfway" observances have gotten
>>tied more to traditional dates than to the actual solar position. 
>
>>Here's the info for 1999 on Earth (for my longitude):
>
>>Solar
>>longitude       date    observance      comments
>>- ---------     -----   --------------  ------------
>> -45            Feb  4  ???
>>   0            Mar 20  vernal equinox  defined as 0 solar longitude
>>  45            May  5  beltane?
>>  90            Jun 21  summer solstice
>> 135            Aug  7  ???
>> 180            Sep 23  Autumnal equinox
>>- -135          Nov  7  ???
>> -90            Dec 21  winter solstice
>
>>These all depend on the axial tilt of the planet. And they are equally
>>spaced thru the year.
>
> Here are the pagan festivals/sabats and common/christian holiday
> correspondances as I can recon them:
>
> Feb 1 or 2 -- Imbolc -- "Groundhog's Day"
> Mar 20 -- Ostara -- Vernal Equanox, "Easter" 
> May 1 -- Beltaine -- "May Day"
> June 21 -- Summer Solstice "?" (Memorial day weekend? Independance Day in
> US? Do any other countries have a near-equivalence to this holiday?)
> Aug 1 -- Lughnasadh, first harvest festival, Festvial of Grain.  
> Sept 23 -- Mabon, Autumnal Equanox.  Another Harvest Festival
> Oct 31, Nov 1 -- Samhain.  Final Harvest. Day to honor the dead.
> "Holloween/All Souls"
> Dec. 21 -- Yule, Winter Solstice.  "Christmas, Haunaka(sp?), et al..."
>
> It is interesting to note that in the southern hemisphere the sabats are
> reversed, as the seasons are reversed from those in the northern
> hemisphere.  I have been told this from pagans living in Austrailia and
> New Zealand.
>
> OBTrav: How would pagan/wiccan colonists react to a world in which there
> are no seasons.  Or a world which is tidaly locked?  They may have to rely
> on the time on Earth. Keeping each second as acurately as they can.  This
> sect may become some of the best clockmakers in the galaxy!

Actually, as I noted, even a tidally locked world will have seasons
unless its orbit is *perfectly* circular. That's because the planet
tries to rotate at a uniform rate, but with an elliptical orbit, that
means that the center of the locked face isn't always pointing directly
at the star. Thus the terminator shifts east and west once a year. 

Also, the seasons *we* are used to are due to earth's axial tilt. It's
also possible to have seasons due to the ellipticity of the planetary
orbit (Brian Aldiss's "Helliconia" is an extreme example of this). 

On earth, we are closest to the sun during the middle of winter in the
northern hemisphere. But Earth's orbit isn't all that eccentric. 

Some planets may have significant orbital *and* axial seasons. Giving
you some really weird stuff to keep track of. 

Want some fun? Consider pagan/wiccan colonists on Mars. The moons are a
*lot* smaller (just speeding dots of light). And as observed from the
surface, one of them goes *backwards*. Their periods are really short
too. A matter of a day or two for one, mere hours for the other. 

And won't it be fun recalculating the astrological influences. For one
thing, the zodiac will be different because Mar's orbit is inclined
differently than Earth's, so the sun moves thru different
constellations. And what does it mean to have *Earth* in one of the
houses? :-)

The farther you get from our solar system the more the very
constellations will change. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1334
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1335



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long) >
GT G-Carrier Wanted
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.
Re: Traveller (and Other GDW RPG) Web Site 
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.
Re: Hate Crimes!
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
Re: Nuc Engineering
Re: Nelsoi-class Fast Liner (GTL12)
Thrown Penguins
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas. 
Re: Drawing the Line
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas. 
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
Re: Moving Against Religions
Re: Hate Crimes!
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long)
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
Mea Culpa Re: Hate Crimes!
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas. 
Lurkers
Oops, GT Shipyard Output Bug
Re: Our Beloved Admiral Santanocheev (was: Re: Overthrowing Government?)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 14:21:44 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long) >

At 09:25 am 12/31/98 +1300, you wrote:
>Which reminds me, anyone know if elements of SAC are still "out there"
>cruising the stratosphere 24 hours a day ?

	President Bush took the airborne leg of the nuclear triad off
24-hour alert during (IIRC) his second term. A bit later, the
National Emergency Airborne Command Post (NEACP, pronounced Kneecap,
also known as Looking Glass) also stopped its historic 30 or 40 years
of continuous flight (with different planes, not the same one for 30
years ...).

	Subs and silos are still out there ...
- -- ------------------------------------------------------------ --
   Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj 
   House for sale in Colorado Springs!
   http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:18:45 +0000
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: GT G-Carrier Wanted

Has anybody created a Traveller G-Carrier using GURPS Vehicles? If so,
could you let me know the stats (in particular cost, loaded/empty mass,
and volume).

Of course, if you want to post/mail the full design I won't object...
;-)

Cheers,

John
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 23:35:16 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, James Pearson wrote:

> Whare are these tables?
> 
> > Well, the only exact thing is the odds of making a roll (as per
> > 
> > the table in Basic). 

GURPS Basic p.45 (The page may vary in different editions/printings, but
it's close to the beginning of chapter 7.)

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:45:22 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 07:18:31 -0600
From: "James Pearson" <jdpearson@wr.net>

>Whare are these tables?
>
>> Well, the only exact thing is the odds of making a roll (as per
>>
>> the table in Basic).

At the beginning of the chapter on "skills".  If you still
can't find it, let me know and I'll hunt down a page reference.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:51:38 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller (and Other GDW RPG) Web Site 

> 
> With the long New Years Day weekend coming up, if you have nothing else to
> do, I invite you to come visit my new Traveller (and other GDW RPG) site at
> 
> http://members.aol.com/SFRPG/

Not bad for a beginning, Marc.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 23:56:27 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain wrote:

> When I started converting my MegaTraveller campaign over to GURPS back in
> '93, I came up with the following:
> 
>      Engineer/TL (Life-Support)
>      Engineer/TL (Power Plant)
>      Engineer/TL (Maneuver Drive)
>      Engineer/TL (Jump Drive)
>      Electronics/TL (Life Support)
>      Electronics/TL (Manoeuvre Drive)
>      Electronics/TL (Power Plant)
>      Electronics/TL (Jump Drive)
> 
> According to GURPS Basic Set, Third Edition - Revised (p 60), "a successful
> roll [against Engineer skill] will let you (for example): ... diagnose a
> mechanical or electrical problem; perform a repair...."  (A successful roll
> against Electronics skill will let one "...diagnose a glitch; perform a
> repair....") 

  According to their descriptions in GURPS engineering skills are
difficult to learn _scientific_ skills mostly concerned with designing and
modifying the systems they concern. (same for electronics)  A free-trader 
ship operating in friendly territory with regular access to high-quality
starports would have little use for these IMO. (OK, maybe just a point or
two for the chief engineer.)
  Navy/starmerc vessels would probably have better trained (and paid)
engineers with high-level engineering and electronics skills just so that
they can rebuild all the systems that have been shot to pieces in combat.

> I'm therefore not certain Mechanic skill is required, but if
> so, I would include:
> 
>      Mechanic/TL (Power Plant)
>      Mechanic/TL (Life Support)
>      Mechanic/TL (Jump Drive)
> 
> I would include Mechanic (Manoeuvre Drive) if HEPlaR technology were being
> used, but I don't think it would be necessary for thruster plates.

 Mechanics is used to "diagnose and fix ordinary mechanical problems"
according to the description . I believe this should be the baseline skill
for engineering/maintenance personell. Even if you feel engineer skills
are required, it should probably be just the chief engineer that has them.
Assistants should be able to get by just with mechanics skills.

> However, both Electronics/TL and Engineer/TL are primarily concerned with
> designing the specified equipment, not with operating it on a routine
> basis.  Shouldn't there also be some sort of professional skill required,
> such as Starship Engineer?  And if so, should it have the required
> specialties, as above, or should it just be a generic skill?

  IMO the various mechanic skills should fill this niche quite nicely.

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 14:26:40
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Hate Crimes!

At 12:57 PM 12/30/98 -0500, you wrote:

>>Clif, I have to put this to you simply...  I know this will hurt you...
>>But, I think the entire TML hates you...
>
>And why would the feelings of someone who has delusions of being an expert
>at psychological warfare harm me?

Let me guess.  The lurkers support you in private mail.  To date, you have
done little but insult people, make baseless accusations, and genrally act
like someone using their parents' machine instead of doing their homework.

Tone it down, take it to private mail, or piss off.
- --

+------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+------------------------------------------+
| "or it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' | 
| "Chuck him out, the brute!"              |
| But it's "Saviour of 'is country"        |
| when the guns begin to shoot;"           |
+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 14:29:19
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

At 01:02 PM 12/30/98 PST, you wrote:

>And I have to wonder when Famille Spofulam will come out with their
>line of "canned goods launchers" :-)

The sad thing is this came across while I was researching penguins for the
Thrown Weapon Table in ACQ.

No, I'm not going to explain.
- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:43:40 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Nuc Engineering

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>

>Actually, electrical equipment is pretty much immune to radiation
>effects. *Semiconductor based* electronics don't handle high radiation
>levels well. Tube based don't have a real problem with it. 
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>

Diamond based semiconductors have a high immunity as well.  I would 
expect a large space based industry to invest heavily into the research 
and development of these devices.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:53:07 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Nelsoi-class Fast Liner (GTL12)

Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com writes:
>I thnk I have spotted the difference, are you including cost and mass of
>turrets?  Also your HP seem  are off by quite a bit.

Did you spot "tonnes" vs. "tons"? I'm using the metric conversions listed
in the GT rulebook.
>
>
>You have posted a lot more, but this is the last I will check for a while,
>I have other ships to check. let me know if you find the bug in your
>program, ok?

Sure, but I don't think it's a bug.

PS. Could you use some other way of indicating quotes? I get the digest,
and it's tricky to figure out where the quoted message begins/ends when
you also include the headers.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:50:43 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Thrown Penguins

>The sad thing is this came across while I was researching penguins for the
>Thrown Weapon Table in ACQ.
>
>No, I'm not going to explain.


No need to explain... the efficient use of puffins as Slid Weapons is
well-known, so it is only natural that someone would employ the streamlined
penguin as a thrown weapon.

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:54:34 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas. 

> The sad thing is this came across while I was researching penguins for the
> Thrown Weapon Table in ACQ.

*Penguins*???????????

> No, I'm not going to explain.

Do tell...

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:19:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Drawing the Line

In mail you write:

> I'm wondering if this could be a good idea for a Traveller scenario.
> Obviously it only makes sense on a low-tech planet (GPS works best than
> chains and pillars). Two (or more) states on a balkanized, low TL planet
> could ask a party of engineers to use high tech instruments to trace a
> boundary across a continent. The line should be easily recognizable without
> using high TL instruments (no radio beacons, laser, satellites) and would
> cross various different terrains, obviously teeming with more or less
> hostile fauna and natives.
>
> I think that a small craft (a Scout, for example) could act as a sort of
> orbital relay base, but most of the work should be on the ground, and even
> with TL 12-13 stuff cutting down trees and setting artifical landmarks
> should require a lot of work.
>
> This could be a good scenario for a Scout team. The referee may easily
> introduce techincal, diplomatic and even military complications along the 
> way.
>
> Any further ideas on this?

Frankly, I'd be tempted to mark the line by using the ship's laser to
fuse it into the soil and cut it into rock. But you still need to do a
*lot* of surveying work first. 

For one thing, even with IISS quality gear, it'll take a while to just
establish *where* the poles and equator are. And then determing
latitude on the surface may or may not be easy, depending on the
availability of a usable pole star for making observations. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:24:31 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas. 

>> The sad thing is this came across while I was researching penguins for
the
>> Thrown Weapon Table in ACQ.
>
>*Penguins*???????????
>
>> No, I'm not going to explain.
>
>Do tell...
>

Need to know more

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 01:39:42 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, David P. Summers wrote:
 
> A low level realistic campaign will consider 18 quite impressive
> while a high level cinematic one will have skills over 20... 
> 
> That being said, my experience is that you need a skill of
> 12 to be seen as "competant".  I've always equated this to 
> Skill-1.  OTOH, in a physical skill 18 is very high.  In 
> some compaigns nobody will be this high, in others you may 
> get a bit over.  For mental skills 18 is a bit more reachable, 
> since the progression is flatter (but still pretty darn good), 
> I few people will get his high and a skill of 20 is something 
> that only a few characters will reach.  Since, in the games 
> I've played, skill-4 was the highest I saw, I always equated 
> these to that.

  Would you like to explain to me how anybody is supposed to have skill
levels of 18 (let alone over 18)? In my experience a qualified starship
crewmember will need at least 20 or so different skills to even get a job.
My character has 38, and is still lacking some crucial ones. (I conned my
way into the crew, basically. Please don't tell the captain.) The way I
see it, to get a skill of 18, you either have to have obscene stats of
14-16 (costing a huge pile of points), or you have to spend in excess of
20 points on each skill.

  BTW I agree that 12 is a basic competency level. I just don't think most
people would have all that many skills higher than this, and even the
highest ones probably wouldn't exceed 15 ,unless the person was almost
legendary in his field. (I have hard time picturing a far-trader crewed
by nothing but legends.) I'm not saying a skill of 18 couldn't appear in a
game. What I an trying to say is, that people with these should be one in
a million (at least), not every second PC. 

  Another point is, that a person with engineer/jump drive-18 (for
example) would probably have committed most of his life to training in
that single field. With IQ 12 (a bright person) you would need 16 points
for this. With 400 hrs of practical work required for 1 skill pt, this
comes up to 6400 hrs, over 3 years of solid work in nothing but one single
skill.(doing _nothing_ else)  The actual time to reach this level would
probably be many times more. A person like this would probably be drawing
a huge paycheck from a megacorp, not working on a leaky far-trader getting
shot at by pirates.

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:52:41 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
> Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
> 
> > >>At 11:55PM local time on New Year's Eve, I will drink a toast to the
> > >>"Family" of the TML, black sheep and all!  :)
> > >>
> > >>Any others want to join in?
> > >
> > >I'll drink to that.  :)
> > >
> > >you won't have me next year though, because at midnight, 1/1/2000 I
plan to
> > >be on top of Telegraph Hill screaming "I win!" at the top of my lungs.
> > >When I was diagnosed with HS in 95, my long term survival goal was to
live
> > >to see 2000.  Now it looks like I'll make it.
> > 
> > 
> > Now I'll drink to both of these! :-) Prost!
> 
> As will I! To many, many more, Doug!

Might as well, you never know when you will have two things to drink about
in one night...  *weg*

> Bruce Johnson

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:59:27 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions

> From: Aerron_Winsor@insurquote-ias.com
> Subject: Re: Moving Against Religions
> 
> In other words, "Give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's, & give unto God what
is
> God's"?  (I say Sergeant York today, btw, great movie)?
> **************
> indeed, a must see.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds about right to me...  It seems when you have a decent, honorable
> religion (not that I know that much about Mormonism, I am just going by
the
> Mormons that I know personally & they are decent, honorable people),
> everyone wants to tear it down.  They go on about the fact that Mormons
> keep, I think, two years supply of food handy as something evil.
> *******************
> well, one year is the minimum, but more if you can store it....it is good
> to be able to feed the nehbors as well....

So that is why they keep two years of food in storage...  Thank you...

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:04:17 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Hate Crimes!

> From: dberry@hooked.net
> Subject: Re: Hate Crimes!
> 
> >>Clif, I have to put this to you simply...  I know this will hurt you...
> >>But, I think the entire TML hates you...
> >
> >And why would the feelings of someone who has delusions of being an expert
> >at psychological warfare harm me?
> 
> Let me guess.  The lurkers support you in private mail.  To date, you have
> done little but insult people, make baseless accusations, and genrally act
> like someone using their parents' machine instead of doing their homework.

I should hope the lurkers have more sense, but then again, I have gotten
private mail from lurkers telling me to keep on at Clif...  But, I have
ignored them....

> Tone it down, take it to private mail, or piss off.

Well, I have pissed off...  Btw, Doug, you want to try & get together & get
piss drunk on New Years Eve of 2000?

> | Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:12:07 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long)

> From: Jason Kemp <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
> Subject: Terran First Contact Timeline (long)
> 
> In 2023, the former US state of Texas, under the direct of charismatic
> Texan Republican party leader Moses Adamson, secedes from the United
> States to form the Greater Republic of Texas.  Minor military
> skirmishes occur before President Adamson and President Chelsea
> Clinton of the United States negotiate a peace settlement, which in
> turn is ratified by both nations' legislative bodies.  Texas's
> independence is recognized in exchange for fairly lucrative trade
> agreements between the two new nations.  In early 2024, the GRT is
> recognized as an independent nation by the United Nations.

I cannot see Chelsea Clinton as president, not with the record of her
father...  And as you have said that the timeline differs after 1978, who
is to say that their is a Chelsea Clinton around?  It might be Charles
Clinton...  *weg*

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:07:45 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@iname.com>
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

At 04:56 PM 12/28/98 +0000, you wrote:
>At 11:07 AM 12/28/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Here, Here!
>>
>>At 11:55PM local time on New Year's Eve, I will drink a toast to the 
>>"Family" of the TML, black sheep and all!  :)
>>
>>Any others want to join in?
>
>I'll drink to that.  :)
>
>you won't have me next year though, because at midnight, 1/1/2000 I plan to
>be on top of Telegraph Hill screaming "I win!" at the top of my lungs.
>When I was diagnosed with HS in 95, my long term survival goal was to live
>to see 2000.  Now it looks like I'll make it.
>

THAT I will drink to. Cheers, Doug!

Sincerely,

Brian A. Howard

Beware the sound of a Babel fish,
For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.

http://home.earthlink.net/~bruadh/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:14:42
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Mea Culpa Re: Hate Crimes!

At 02:26 PM 12/30/98, you wrote:
>At 12:57 PM 12/30/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Let me guess.  The lurkers support you in private mail.  To date, you have
>done little but insult people, make baseless accusations, and genrally act
>like someone using their parents' machine instead of doing their homework.

This was supposed to go to Clif's address, Mea culpa, Mea culpa, mea
Maximum Culpa

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:23:07
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas. 

At 05:54 PM 12/30/98 -0500, you wrote:

>*Penguins*???????????
>Do tell...

Y'all conviced me.

While writing ACQ, I was doing the intro for the thrown weapons portion,
and was giving a few examples of what a thrown weapon would be.  I had
knives, grenades, and...  blank.  I knew I wanted three items, but couldn't
think of one.  So I typed "penguins" just to fill space.

James and I contiinue sending larger and larger files across the ether,
correcting and commenting on each others' work, when one day I find this
under the rules on aerodynamic thrown weapons:

"Aerodynamic objects are those specifically designed for throwing, like
javelins, Frisbees, and throwing knives (penguins although very
aerodynamic tend to "resist" being thrown by flapping their little
flippers wildly about, and are therefore treated as non-aerodynamic objects
for throwing purposes)." 

Needless to say the image put me on the floor in a scale 9.2 ROFLMAO event.

Now, nearing the end of the writing, we're doing the weapons table, and I
set out go to the depths of gearheadiness.  I was going to design a penguin
using 3G3.  And convert it to T4.  Twice.  I even considered autofire rules
for throwing handfuls of Fairy Penguins (little guys about the size of
humming birds.)

[Now if this doesn't sell some extra copies of ACQ...]

- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:24:03 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Lurkers

Dude, I think you need help.  Sounds like you're saying that some sort of
conspiracy is going on.  ; )

- --Clif

>I should hope the lurkers have more sense, but then again, I have gotten
>private mail from lurkers telling me to keep on at Clif...  But, I have
>ignored them....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:29:00 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Oops, GT Shipyard Output Bug

Oops, Aeron's question led me to find some metric conversion bugs in GT
Shipyard:

1) I was converting using the formula from GURPS Traveller, which is long
tons not short tons (which are used everywhere else in the book).  Loren,
the conversion notes should probably explain this for other non-American
types.

I'm now using the correct conversion factor (thanks Christopher).

2) The exported files (as opposed to those printed out from within the
program) didn't convert all the numbers. 

All values are now converted.


I'd rather not repost all those designs to the TML. They are valid
designs, just use short tons for the spreadsheet section and reconvert the
emass/lmass totals. I'm working on an integrated PDF book of GT starships:
I'll post that to Freelance Traveller when I'm done (assuming that Jeff
has room).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:36:10 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Our Beloved Admiral Santanocheev (was: Re: Overthrowing Government?)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>

>You're obviously not paranoid enough.
>
>Don't you know that all the conspiracy stories floating around are just
cover
>for what's really going on?  <grin>



How do we know that isn't just your own cover story?  Cover stories to cover
your cover stories... ;)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1335
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1336



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Update to my site
Comments, Please: Extending the UWP: Government
Conspiracy "Theories"
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
Re: [OT] Re: SPAM ALERT!
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
Re: Apologies
Mormon Food Storage (was: Re: Moving Against Religions)
Re: Moderated list proposal
Re: Striker
Re: Moderated list proposal
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline
Orbital positions of worlds at any given time.
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
ACQ and Penguins
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
Re: New Year's Toast To TML...
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline: Pluto's Secret
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.
Re: Mormon Food Storage (was: Re: Moving Against Religions)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:39:26 -0800
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: Update to my site

    As I'm writing this, updates to the Traveller portion of my site are
currently posting.  For those of you that were following my "URGENT request
for Far Trader scans" thread earlier this week and last, I'm currently
working on some 3D pics for an upcoming G:T sourcebook.  I've posted an
in-progress shot of the Marava Class Far Trader that I've been working on
(around my vacation) for this project.  I've also posted an in-progress pic
of my Acipiter Class Armored Merchant with deckplans as well.  Stats are
forthcoming once I fix some mistakes I made while creating it with Andy
Akin's spreadsheet (which is VERY cool BTW for those of us that SUCK at math
:)

    Comments/criticisms are welcomed (I can take it <SNIFF>).  Mail to me
individually at the address below to save TML bandwidth.

    BTW, I'll be hoisting a toast or four to the members of the TML at
11:55PM local time on New Year's Eve as was suggested earlier.  Love that
Scout Brew!!!


Best Regards,
Jesse DeGraff
fenris@slip.net
www.vision-forge-graphics.com/trav.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 01:06:43 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Comments, Please: Extending the UWP: Government

This is a proposed article for Freelance Traveller, with the
purpose of expanding on the Government code the same way that
Extending the UWP: Starports did for the Starport code.  Comment
is requested, encouraged, welcomed, and eagerly sought.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Freelance
Traveller/The RICE Archives
Doing It My Way
Extending The UWP
Government

The existing UWP code for government provides a very generalized
overview of the structure of the government of a world, and
shoehorns a government into one of a limited number of types.
Unfortunately, there are limitations to this; often an actual
government configuration can fit into more than one
classification, and many classifications cover a wide variation
in the actual structure of the government.

While the debate over the proper scope and function of a
government will probably not end prior to the actual heat-death
of the universe, it is generally agreed that there are three
functional divisions to government - the Legislative function, or
the making of law, the Executive function, or the keeping of law,
and the Judicial function, or the interpretation of law.  In
addition, there is the "State" function, which, rather than being
connected with law, is more focussed on ceremony and diplomacy.
Each of these functions has its own characteristics, and the
government overall has characteristics of its own.  This article
will develop a more detailed method of profiling a government.

It is proposed that the existing UWP Government code expresses
the most notable feature of the government in question, and may
not present a true picture of the government's functions.  Thus,
although the governmental systems of the United States and the
United Kingdom of pre-starflight Terra are functionally very
similar, the government codes would be different - the most
notable aspect of the United States government is that frequent
elections for virtually all positions, including legislative
representatives, are held, making the government a Representative
Democracy, while, in spite of the fact that the UK operates much
the same way, the most notable feature is the existence of a
hereditary head-of-state who theoretically can exercise power at
whim, and enjoys the support of the people of the country, making
the government a Charismatic dictatorship.  A more accurate
profile would reveal that both governments are in practice very
similar.

It should be noted that this profile applies only to the highest
levels of government - it is entirely possible that lower levels
of government have subtly or radically different structure (for
example, a functional autocracy at the top level may still permit
local governments to make local decisions on a consensus or
democratic basis).

An extended Government profile will appear as follows:

00-0-L/E/J/S

The code naturally divides into six groups.  The first group,
consisting of two digits followed by a hyphen, represents the
overall evaluation of the government.  The first digit represents
the apparent structure; the second represents the level of
intrusiveness. Conventionally, these are identical to the
Government and Law codes of the UWP, respectively.  

The second "group" is a single digit followed by a hyphen, and
indicates how the theoretical limits of governmental power are
established.  The valid codes are:

        0 - None.  The government may not be limited in theory by

            anything other than the personal ethics of the
            leaders.
        1 - Statutory Constitution and Stare Decisis.  The
            government is limited by extant statute law and by
            precedent for similar situations.
        2 - Impeding Constitution.  There is a written
            Constitution separate from the body of law and
            precedent.  This Constitution enumerates the specific
            powers that may be exercised by the government, but
            implicitly or explicitly bars the exercise of power
            beyond those limits.
        3 - Enabling Constitution.  There is a written
            Constitution separate from the body of law and
            precedent.  This Constitution enumerates specific
            prohibitions on exercising of power by the
            government, but implicitly or explicitly permits the
            exercise of any power not expressly prohibited.
        4 - Restrictive Constitution.  There is a written
            Constitution separate from the body of law and
            precedent.  This Constitution enumerates both allowed
            powers and prohibitions, and leaves the decision on
            the legality of the exercising of other powers to
            other means.

The third, fourth, fifth, and sixth groups consist of a letter
followed by up to four digits, and represent the characteristics
of the individual branches of the government.  The first
character of the group is a letter, L for legislative function, E
for executive function, J for judicial function, and S for State
function.  They may occur in any order; it is conventional to
list them in the order of dominance in government visibility.  If
multiple functions are considered together, such as head-of-state
and head-of-government in the United States, the codes should
only be included once, but with both letters (thus, ES... for the
example of the U.S.).

The digits of the division profiles represent the following:

        - The structure of the division:
          0 - direct participation by the populace at large.
          1 - single individual exercising power at discretion
          2 - single individual exercising power with
              advice/consent of a formal council
          3 - single individual exercising power within
              strictures imposed by other branches or populace at
              large
          4 - single elite council (selected from a restricted
              population)
          5 - single demotic council (selected from the populace
              at large)
          6 - multiple councils

        - The method of selection of the division
          0 - not applicable (for direct participation structure)
          1 - hereditary succession, including appointment by
              predecessor
          2 - appointed by executive branch
          3 - appointed by legislative branch
          4 - appointed by judiciary branch
          5 - appointed by head-of-state
          6 - elected from the populace at large by the populace
              at large
          7 - elected from the populace at large by restricted
              franchise
          8 - elected from a restricted group by the populace at
              large
          9 - elected from a restricted group by restricted
              franchise

          In the case of multiple councils selected by different 
          methods, the method for selection of the largest
          council (most members) should be used, and there should
          be associated notes explaining in more detail.

          In cases of elective selection with restricted
          franchise, or of elite councils, a third (and possibly
          fourth) digit should be included, to indicate the
          nature of the constraints on eligibility.  It may be
          assumed that election by "populace at large" is in fact
          restricted to citizens at or above the age of majority;
          "restricted franchise" indicates the imposition of
          additional restrictions.  If two restriction digits are
          needed, the first is for the restricted group from
          which the membership is selected; the second for the
          restricted group that does the selecting.

          Restriction codes are:
          1 - Age.  Franchise is delayed after majority, revoked
              after a specified age, or both.
          2 - Financial.  Franchise is restricted to those who
              can demonstrate a certain level of wealth and/or
              property ownership.
          3 - Hereditary.  Franchise is limited to those who can
              prove descent along specified lines from a
              historically-enfranchised individual.
          4 - Gender.  In polysexual (2 or more sexes) species, 
              franchise is limited to specific sexes, but not to
              all.
          5 - Intelligence/Education.  Franchise is limited to
              those who can demonstrate a specified level of
              intellectual competence.
          6 - Race/Ethnicity/Religion/Cultural - Franchise is
              limited to members of approved groups based on
              inheritable physical characteristics or social
              identification.  In some forms of social
              identification, the identification may be partially
              or fully involuntary.
          7 - Occupation.  Franchise is limited to members of
              approved trades, professions, or occupations.

Examples:

(1) The United States of America has a moderately intrusive
government (moderate law level) whose most notable characteristic
is an elective legislature (Representative Democracy).  There is
a written Constitution that both prohibits and allows
governmental powers, and leaves the decision in areas not
explicitly mentioned or unclear areas to a decision by other
methods.  In general, focus on the government for the purposes of
news reportage focusses on the head of government, who is the
head of the executive branch, and elected by the populace at
large, theoretically from the populace at large.  The head of
government is also head of state, and there is little
differentiation between the functions.  When the Executive is not
the focus of government-focussed news, the Legislature generally
is.  The legislature is several councils, theoretically selected
from the populace at large by the populace at large.  The
Judicial branch is a single elite council (selected from scholars
of law), appointed by the Executive (though with approval from
the legislature).

The government profile for the United States of America would be

44-4-ES26/L66/J427

(2) The fictitious Caliphate of Al-rak has a highly intrusive
government (high law level) whose most notable characteristic is
a hereditary monarch as head of state (Charismatic Dictatorship).
There is no Constitution; the monarch has theoretically absolute
power.  The legislative parliament is a single council that
selects the head of government, and is elected by and from the
male citizens only.  The head of government is limited in his
ability to exercise power by the advice of the parliament.  The
judiciary is composed of members of the priesthood appointed to
the supreme judicial council by the monarch.

The government profile for the Caliphate of Al-rak would be

A8-0-S11/E237/L4944/J457.


- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:53:58 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Conspiracy "Theories"

>From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>
>>You're obviously not paranoid enough.
>>
>>Don't you know that all the conspiracy stories floating around are just cover
>>for what's really going on?  <grin>
>
>How do we know that isn't just your own cover story?  Cover stories to cover
>your cover stories... ;)
>

Because Mel Gibson partially confesses this in the canonical work
"Conspiracy Theory". ; )

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:08:52 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Bravo!
> 
> Amen.
> 
> And I think it's a nice way to explain kinetic kill weapons to players.
> 
> And I have to wonder when Famille Spofulam will come out with their
> line of "canned goods launchers" :-)
> 
Well, does that mean that magazine capacity can be calculated based on
the food storage rules in FF&S2?

Good thing that most of my warship designs under FF&S2 carry 26 weeks of
rations per crewmwnber/passenger....

<<snip sig>>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:11:38 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: SPAM ALERT!

Sorry if I annoyed anyone. 
now back to Traveller :)

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:14:59 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

At 02:29 pm 12/30/98, you wrote:
>At 01:02 PM 12/30/98 PST, you wrote:
>
>>And I have to wonder when Famille Spofulam will come out with their
>>line of "canned goods launchers" :-)
>
>The sad thing is this came across while I was researching penguins for the
>Thrown Weapon Table in ACQ.
>
>No, I'm not going to explain.

	... Umm .... I think at this point, if you explained, I'd be even
more frightened than I am now ...

(PS: How much damage DOES a thrown penguin do?)
- -- ------------------------------------------------------------ --
   Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj 
   House for sale in Colorado Springs!
   http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:15:17 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Apologies

>> Seriously though, if you are playing a campaign in the TNE universe then the
>> Flame-thrower is a perfectly viable weapon, if you have your tech levels set
>> to accommodate such.
>
>Not really.  The only difference w/ TNE is the upper cap is a bit lower. TL
>12 is what TL15 was to the Imperium...  Highest commonly available.  Most
>common overall is Oriflammes TL9 compared the Imperiums TL12 (isn't that
>right?).
>
>Maybe for teh Wilds, but not for the RC, much less the Hivers or the Spinward
>States.


Sure, if you follow the storyline as set out in the book. Personally, in my
game there is no Battledress and the troops get a flack jacket and helmet.
Flame-throwers become a scary thing when you're not encased in a powered
armour suit. :P
Just label me Heretic ++

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:15:38 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Mormon Food Storage (was: Re: Moving Against Religions)

Legate Legion wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> > Sounds about right to me...  It seems when you have a decent, honorable
> > religion (not that I know that much about Mormonism, I am just going by
> the
> > Mormons that I know personally & they are decent, honorable people),
> > everyone wants to tear it down.  They go on about the fact that Mormons
> > keep, I think, two years supply of food handy as something evil.
> > *******************
> > well, one year is the minimum, but more if you can store it....it is good
> > to be able to feed the nehbors as well....
> 
> So that is why they keep two years of food in storage...  Thank you...
> 

I thought it was as ammunition for ravioli rail guns....  >;-)

<<snip sig>>
- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:29:44 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Moderated list proposal

>
>No, a moderated list is NOT the answer, unless you're volunteering to
>become the moderator. Killfiles and the Delete key are.
>

Ahh, this is indeed a trick issue (who wants to be moderataor)... Mind you
(Melomaniacal laugh followed by sound of shot as he realises the amount of
weork required.) The power the glory...

:)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 20:51:33 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Striker

suggested fixes?...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 20:49:05 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Moderated list proposal

>Melomaniacal laugh followed by sound of shot as he realises the amount of
>weork required.) The power the glory...
>
>:)


I believe the line was "the horror! the horror!".

I'm REALLY trying to be good, guys.  Don't force moderation on someone.  I'm
REALLY trying!

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 20:54:20 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

ROFLOL!!!! You are a very sick, Sick, SICK man.... :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 20:57:39 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline

In a message dated 12/29/98 11:05:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
TravelrTNE@aol.com writes:

<<  Both the Solomani and
 Third Imperium had pluto interdicted too.   >>

This is interesting... Is that canon? If so; what did they say is going
on?....

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 01:18:19 -0000
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time.

Fellow TML'ers

Apologies to people who think this detail is boring but...

In a (possibly vain) attempt to talk Traveller, maybe I can share one
of my solutions to a problem put forward in one of our games.

The group were having to fly from an inner world in a system (A), to
a gas giant to refuel, jump out, pick up supplies from another world (B)
some 6 parsecs awayand then return to (A) refueling again before they
went in-system.

All this while being chased by system (A)'s defending forces while in (A)'s
system space. We were using DGP's Starship Operators Manual, and
the rules contained therin to calculate tansit time, by checking the
relative
positions of both worlds. My pedantic player piped up with the argument that
since the GG was outer system, with a much longer Orbital period then the
inner world, the course to use would be different. (We stopped the game for
about 5 mins while I worked orbital periods out - then used an arbitary hand
wave and said that at year 0, all worlds were in alignment all over the
galaxy)

(I know - big handwave,  but we were in a rush!) I then calcuated the position
of each world from the remainder left from the number of orbits done by each,
by using MOD(x) on a spreadsheet, divided by each by 6, and found out their
relative positions at each time concerned. In the end it saved them about 30%
of their transit time, and saved them from a good ass kicking by my SDB's.

Why, I hear you ask, didn't you just arbitrarilly make it up? Well I like to be
as detailed as I can, and it was a life or death situation for them..Plus it was kind
of fun for me too - good to have the old grey matter working occasionally.

I have since thought that a possible better alternative would be to use the earliest
date known in Traveller which IIRC is -300,000 to get plenty of variation in system's
postitions.

Again my apologies if this is boring trivial nonsense.

Wishing you all a happy and peaceful New Year.

Derrick


"My New Years Traveller Wish... A mapping program that replicates exactly
the
rules in the WBH, flawed though they may be." Here's hoping!


Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK

mailto:dojones@whitestar.u-net.com
http://www.whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 01:57:02 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

>And I have to wonder when Famille Spofulam will come out with their
>line of "canned goods launchers" :-)

In-space rapid mass transit system for cargo and other miscellaneous items?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 02:05:31 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: ACQ and Penguins

Doug wrote:

>"Aerodynamic objects are those specifically designed for throwing, like
>javelins, Frisbees, and throwing knives (penguins although very
>aerodynamic tend to "resist" being thrown by flapping their little
>flippers wildly about, and are therefore treated as non-aerodynamic objects
>for throwing purposes)."

I'm not going to edit it out at the layout stage, just don't tell Andy!

>Now, nearing the end of the writing, we're doing the weapons table, and I
>set out go to the depths of gearheadiness.  I was going to design a penguin
>using 3G3.  And convert it to T4.  Twice.  I even considered autofire rules
>for throwing handfuls of Fairy Penguins (little guys about the size of
>humming birds.)

I think that may be pushing it a little? How about a Penguin Launcher?

BTW must add the text saying 'No penguins were harmed....' to the credits.
And tell James to hide the wrappers. Do we need an indirect fire diagram
for penguins?

>[Now if this doesn't sell some extra copies of ACQ...]

Well, I think it should sell on its own merits ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:21:01 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

In a message dated 12/30/98 10:33:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,
brclif@digital.net writes:

<< 
 Its true!  When I was a teen, I shot a can of ravioli at point blank range
 with only a .22 and had a lot of it on my clothes, as a result.  : )
 
 --Clif
  >>

Yes, but this time the can of ravioli is the projectile; not the target...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:20:04 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...

This is why I think some of the original message should be left.

I have absolutely no idea what this is about...

- --Clif
Subject: Re: New Year's Toast To TML...


>ROFLOL!!!! You are a very sick, Sick, SICK man.... :-)
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:27:55 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline: Pluto's Secret

I remember that one of the last TAS entries before the the rebellion took
place in the rim, circa 1112. It had to do with a person surviving jump space,
getting jump sickness, and being placed in quarantine. Last thing mentioned
was the earthers getting kicked off the case by Imperial security who impose
an information blackout along with the quarantine. This was an intriging plot
line, but then came...Megatraveller...

Maybe this can be "reverse shoehorned" into this pluto mystery....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:31:04 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

Thu, 31 Dec 1998 01:39:42 +0200 (EET), Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
>  Would you like to explain to me how anybody is supposed to have skill
>levels of 18 (let alone over 18)? In my experience a qualified starship
>crewmember will need at least 20 or so different skills to even get a job.
>My character has 38, and is still lacking some crucial ones.

This is an example of how this is somewhat subjective.  In my
campaigns a Gunner just needs 3 or 4 Gunnery skills (maybe on
or two at a high level) and some basic Armory.  A ships Engineer
needs 3 or 4 Mechanics skills (primarily Jump Drive, Maneuver
Drive, and Power Plant).  It sounds like, in your campaign,
a charcter was expected to be able to do anything.  In such
a campaign a skill of 16 might be as high as you will likely
go.

>  BTW I agree that 12 is a basic competency level. I just don't think most
>people would have all that many skills higher than this, and even the
>highest ones probably wouldn't exceed 15 ,unless the person was almost
>legendary in his field.

I've seen campaigns like this.  The only thing I will say is that
I've not seen skill 16 or 17 considered legendary.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:55:08 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Mormon Food Storage (was: Re: Moving Against Religions)

> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
> Subject: Mormon Food Storage (was: Re: Moving Against Religions)
> 
> > > Sounds about right to me...  It seems when you have a decent, honorable
> > > religion (not that I know that much about Mormonism, I am just going by
> > the
> > > Mormons that I know personally & they are decent, honorable people),
> > > everyone wants to tear it down.  They go on about the fact that Mormons
> > > keep, I think, two years supply of food handy as something evil.
> > > *******************
> > > well, one year is the minimum, but more if you can store it....it is good
> > > to be able to feed the nehbors as well....
> > 
> > So that is why they keep two years of food in storage...  Thank you...
> > 
> I thought it was as ammunition for ravioli rail guns....  >;-)

I think I shall let brother Jesse answer this...  But, if you have a
ravioli rail gun, could you use a can of green beans in it...

<LL mutters, must ignore Clif, must ignore Clif...  I will not give into
the Dark Side to Flame Clif...  No matter the opening...  I know I could
say many things to flame him, but I shall not...  Must ignore that littls
batard Clif...  I must ignore that little f'ing batard Clif...>

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1336
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 31 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1337



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Ravioli Gun
Re: Thrown Penguins
Re: ACQ and Penguins
Re: ACQ and Penguins
Re: Ravioli Gun
Re: Thrown Penguins
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
Re: GURPS Traveller Character
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.
Re: Ravioli Gun
CT/MT vs GT Discussion
GURPS Tasks for GT
Re: Discussing the GURPS character Osseskil
Re: ACQ and Penguins
Re: ACQ and Penguins
Re: Mormon Food Storage (was: Re: Moving Against Religions)
CT/MT vs GT skills

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:20:00
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

At 03:24 PM 30/12/98 -0500, you wrote:

>From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
>Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
>
>Hay Ditzie, can you make one of those ravioli railguns for your helo from
>hell. If so, I'll want to get one.

Wayne,

Ditzie isnt building anything for you until you learn to quote selectivly
before posting ... but thatnks for the idea on the ravioli gun.

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
>And I have to wonder when Famille Spofulam will come out with their
>line of "canned goods launchers" :-)

Thats 'Highly Accelerated Resupply Process' ...

Ian Whirchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 22:17:56 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Thrown Penguins

Clif wrote:

> >The sad thing is this came across while I was researching penguins for the
> >Thrown Weapon Table in ACQ.
> >
> >No, I'm not going to explain.
>
> No need to explain... the efficient use of puffins as Slid Weapons is
> well-known, so it is only natural that someone would employ the streamlined
> penguin as a thrown weapon.

Maybe streamlined, but certainly no airframe.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:20:01 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: ACQ and Penguins

This is starting to sound like Gonk Hunt, where small furry animals and
Heavy Artillery come together...


>>Now, nearing the end of the writing, we're doing the weapons table, and I
>>set out go to the depths of gearheadiness.  I was going to design a penguin
>>using 3G3.  And convert it to T4.  Twice.  I even considered autofire rules
>>for throwing handfuls of Fairy Penguins (little guys about the size of
>>humming birds.)

>I think that may be pushing it a little? How about a Penguin Launcher?

>BTW must add the text saying 'No penguins were harmed....' to the credits.
>And tell James to hide the wrappers. Do we need an indirect fire diagram
>for penguins?

>>[Now if this doesn't sell some extra copies of ACQ...]

>Well, I think it should sell on its own merits ;-)

>Dom

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:40:52 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: ACQ and Penguins

SD Mooney wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> >Now, nearing the end of the writing, we're doing the weapons table, and I
> >set out go to the depths of gearheadiness.  I was going to design a penguin
> >using 3G3.  And convert it to T4.  Twice.  I even considered autofire rules
> >for throwing handfuls of Fairy Penguins (little guys about the size of
> >humming birds.)
> 
> I think that may be pushing it a little? How about a Penguin Launcher?
> 

At which point, all the Harpoon players in the group begin to get
nervous, especially when you have a photocopy of the Penguin anti-ship
missile page from _Jane's_ "just lying around"....  >;-)

<<snip>>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:43:41 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

Ian or Katts wrote:
> 
> At 03:24 PM 30/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> >From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> >
> >And I have to wonder when Famille Spofulam will come out with their
> >line of "canned goods launchers" :-)
> 
> Thats 'Highly Accelerated Resupply Process' ...
> 
And how many folks will understand _that_ acronym (other than fans of
Dr. Bull's work)?

> Ian Whirchurch

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:46:26 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Thrown Penguins

steve daniels wrote:
> 
> Clif wrote:
> 
> > >The sad thing is this came across while I was researching penguins for the
> > >Thrown Weapon Table in ACQ.
> > >
> > >No, I'm not going to explain.
> >
> > No need to explain... the efficient use of puffins as Slid Weapons is
> > well-known, so it is only natural that someone would employ the streamlined
> > penguin as a thrown weapon.
> 
> Maybe streamlined, but certainly no airframe.
> 

And not even Fast Subsonic.... ;-)

> Bloo

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 22:48:21 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

My less than serious point was that Ravioli can be unexpectedly volatile.

> Its true!  When I was a teen, I shot a can of ravioli at point blank range
> with only a .22 and had a lot of it on my clothes, as a result.  : )
>
> --Clif
>  >>
>
>Yes, but this time the can of ravioli is the projectile; not the target...
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 23:35:02 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Character

At 15:07 30-12-98 -0500, Allen wrote:
>There are presently three methods for generating GURPS Traveller characters.
>They are:
>
>1.) Build from scratch as a GURPS character.
>
>2.) Build using the templates given in the GURPS Traveller book, which are
>basically partially completed characters that you then customize.
>
>3.) The UNOFFICIAL but entertaining random creation system created by Robert
>M. Brown in the article "Some Classic Randomness" and published by Pyramid
>Online. This system, while it is not exactly like the old Classic system (no
>survival rolls, lots more skills, no "mustering out"), does allow for
>varying point levels and has a good 'feel' to it. It's probably worth the
>$15 for a year's subscription just for those of you who would like to use it
>:)

4.) Create a character using your favourite Traveller method, then convert
him/her/it to GURPS.


James

- ----------     ----------     ----------     ----------
HEAVEN is where all the police are English, the mechanics
German, the lovers Greek, and the cooks French, and it's
all run by the Swiss.  HELL is where all the police are
German, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, and the
cooks English, and it's all run by the Greeks.
                      (from a t-shirt I bought in Greece)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 23:29:59 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

At 01:39 31-12-98 +0200, Eppu Tuominen wrote:
>  Would you like to explain to me how anybody is supposed to have skill
>levels of 18 (let alone over 18)? In my experience a qualified starship
>crewmember will need at least 20 or so different skills to even get a job.
>My character has 38, and is still lacking some crucial ones. (I conned my
>way into the crew, basically. Please don't tell the captain.) The way I
>see it, to get a skill of 18, you either have to have obscene stats of
>14-16 (costing a huge pile of points), or you have to spend in excess of
>20 points on each skill.

Don't forget the Eidetic Memory advantage.  It makes mental skills much
easier to learn.  And computer (except Computer Operation) and engineering
skills will be boosted by the Mathematical Ability advantage.


James

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 22:04:53 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

Geez, when I first asked if rail guns would work against starships in
Traveller, I was laughed at & now this little post proves that I am
right...  Bwahahahahahahahahaha (evil laughter)...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 98 21:57:53 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: CT/MT vs GT Discussion

David, 

I'm breaking my reply down into three parts to try to focus the
discussion a little.

On 12/29/98 at 11:40 PM,  "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> said:

>>We old Travheads need some examples and some explanations that
>>weren't there.

>>Just how much skill does a Pilot need, and in which skills to equal
>>a Pilot-1 or a Pilot-4? 

>Well, the only exact thing is the odds of making a roll (as per the
>table in Basic).  What is considered sufficient can very.

That's sort of my point.  ;-> Those of us with lots of Traveller
experience, but little GURPS experience don't have a solid feel for
sufficience.  Of course, some of this depends on how difficulties
are set.

>A low level realistic campaign will consider 18 quite impressive
>while a high level cinematic one will have skills over 20...

<whistle>

Looking at the 3d6 odds, I would think that a 14 or 15 would be
impressive.  You must modify difficulties a good bit more than I
would have thought.

>That being said, my experience is that you need a skill of 12 to be
>seen as "competant".  

Ok, 12 gives an unmodified 74% chance of success.  I'd agree that
that is competent.

>I've always equated this to Skill-1. 

Ah, I see!  I can see that.

>a physical skill 18 is very high.  In some compaigns nobody will be
>this high, in others you may get a bit over.  For mental skills 18 is
>a bit more reachable, since the progression is flatter (but still
>pretty darn good), I few people will get his high and a skill of 20
>is something that only a few characters will reach.  Since, in the
>games I've played, skill-4 was the highest I saw, I always equated
>these to that.

Interesting. 

So, in a comparison between GURPS and CT, do you see the progression
of skill levels for unmodified tasks resembling something like
this...

          3d6           2d6
         GURPS         Trav  
 Default   6    9%       3    8%       
          10   50%       
          11   63%       0   58%
          12   74%       1   72%
          13   84%       2   83%
          14   91%       3   92%
          15   95%
          16   98%       4   97%
          17   99%
          18  100%       5  100%
    
>> What about an Engineer..which skills and
>>what levels does he need?

>For a ship you definately need Mechanic (Jump Drive), Mechanic 
>(Power Plant) and Mechanic (Manuever Drive).  I've seen  Engineering
>(Vehciles) which I think is the skill to fix the misc parts of the
>ship (airlocks, hull breaches, etc.) But as a GM I've been thinking
>of letting players use any mechanic skill for these kinds of routine
>things.

The 3 Mechanics specializations make sense, as would Gravitics and
Electronics.  Hum, my reading of the GURPS Engineering skill was
that it was concerned with the design of equipment rather than
repair/maintenance, perhaps a Mechanic (spaceship systems) is
needed for the general things.

>>  Merchant skills aren't the same, how do
>>you compensate?

>How so?  A Merchant 15 is as good a merchant as Mechanic (Power
>Plant) 15 is at being a mechanic.

I meant something different.

In Traveller we have Trader and Broker, two distinct skills with
different effects and uses.  In GURPS, both seem to be subsumed by
Merchant.  I suppose I could use specializations here just like with
Mechanic Merchant (trade), Merchant (brokerage), etc.

>>What about combat skills...do they need to be
>>higher than non-combat skills, as implied in the B book?

>Well, they only need to be higher because you are generally keen not
>to die and so want to make sure you suceed.

<grin> I don't run, especially, combat heavy games, but I don't run
especially safe ones either.  Characters are more apt to get killed
in non-combat situations than combat ones.  I'd say it's more
important for the Engineer to be *really* good at Mechanic (Power
Systems) than something like Pistol.  I do get your point, though.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 98 23:07:38 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: GURPS Tasks for GT

On 12/29/98 at 11:40 PM,  "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> said:

>>Then let's talk about task levels... ;->

>Well, your task level is to roll under your skill.  

<grin> Differences in semantics.  To clarify for anyone not familar
with this subject.

In GURPS, to succeed at a task you roll under your skill...as
modified.  The unmodified skill is its chance of success at "normal
tasks."  More or less difficult tasks modify the skill level up or
down a few points.  From my reading of GURPS materials, the number
of points you modify a skill by is very much a "case by case"
situation.

In most versions of Traveller, all if you extend CT with the DGP
task system, we have a more formal system for grouping difficulties
into named "Task Difficulty Levels."  This is one area where I think
Traveller is *far* superior to GURPS.

From the scale you give below looks like you might agree with me. ;->

>-2 tricky
>-4 hard/difficult
>-6 very hard
>-8 formidible
>-10 almost impossible

First, I see only negative modifers here.  Are you saying that, for
you, a "Routine..if you know that skill you ought to be able to do
that" tasks roll at unmodifed skill levels?  If so, I can understand
where you would want higher skill levels than I would have expected.

Second, does a 2 point spread between difficulties work well?  I've
been working with 2 and 3, 2 is a much cleaner mechanic, but 3 seems
to give better distributions of probablities.  Anyway, let me put
out two scales that use names familar to most fellow-Travellers...

Steps by 2

  +4 Simple         If you have any skill you should succeed.
  +2 Routine        Dabblers will succeed most of the time.
   0 Normal         Professionals will succeed most of the time.
  -2 Difficult      This is where most hard tasks fall.
  -4 Formidable     Most will fail, most of the time.
  -6 Staggering     Even the best fail almost all the time.
  -8 Hopeless       Not impossible, but next to it!
 
 Skills of:
 
           |  8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20
 ==========+===================================================
 Simple    | 74  83  91  95  98  98  98  98  98  98  98  98  98
 Routine   | 50  63  74  84  91  95  98  98  98  98  98  98  98
 Normal    | 26  38  50  63  74  84  91  95  98  98  98  98  98
 Difficult |  9  16  26  38  50  63  74  84  91  98  98  98  98
 Formidable|  2   5   9  16  26  38  50  63  74  83  91  95  98
 Staggering| <1  <1   2   5   9  16  26  38  50  63  74  84  91
 Hopeless  | <1  <1  <1  <1   2   5   9  16  26  38  50  63  74

...this looks good up to about 17 where the probabilities of
succeeding on the *truely* hard tasks, Staggering and Hopeless,
start getting too high. If we push the steps up to 3...

Steps by 3

  +6 Simple         If you have any skill you should succeed.
  +3 Routine        Dabblers will succeed most of the time.
   0 Normal         Professionals will succeed most of the time.
  -3 Difficult      This is where most hard tasks fall.
  -6 Formidable     Most will fail, most of the time.
  -9 Staggering     Even the best fail almost all the time.
 -12 Hopeless       Not impossible, but next to it!
 
 Skills of:
 
           |  8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20
 ==========+===================================================
 Simple    | 91  95  98  98  98  98  98  98  98  98  98  98  98
 Routine   | 63  74  84  91  95  98  98  98  98  98  98  98  98
 Normal    | 26  38  50  63  74  84  91  95  98  98  98  98  98
 Difficult |  5   9  16  26  38  50  63  74  84  91  98  98  98
 Formidable| <1  <1   2   5   9  16  26  38  50  63  74  83  91
 Staggering| <1  <1  <1  <1  <1   2   5   9  16  26  38  50  63
 Hopeless  | <1  <1  <1  <1  <1  <1  <1  <1   2   5   9  16  26

...this looks *too* hard, but maybe not, if GURPS characters are
going to routinely have lots of skills up into the at 14 to 18
range.

Discussion?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 98 23:20:30 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Discussing the GURPS character Osseskil

On 12/29/98 at 11:40 PM,  "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> said:
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.44 b44 

Although, a Droyne Sport is a little "out there" for an example,
let's look at him...um, it.  ;->

>Osseskil

>His background was that his Oytrip was planning on expanding into
>trade and had sent him out to scout out the Spinward Marches.

>ST    9
>DX    13    
>IQ    13
>HT    11

>The racial package I used had a -3 to ST, I bought it up a couple of
>levels so he could at least use some weapons without recoil problems. 

I can see that.

>He wasn't primarily a combat
>character, but he also got -3 hit points so I bought
>up HT so he would have at least a decent chance of making a roll to
>stay conscious or alive (if I was doing it again I might have gone
>with a 12).  He needed to be good at a lot of skills so I gave him an
>IQ and DX of 13.

>The Racial package gave him the following advantages.

>Night Vision (1/2 Dark. Pen.)
>Claws
>Invisibility
>Winged Flight
>Peripheral Vision

>Because I wanted him to be able to fit into an existing group  that
>had most thing covered, and because he was a Sport, I wanted him to
>be able to do a lot of different things so he could full in as
>needed...

Sort of a "Jack of all Trades, Master of None" concept. 

>Skills                        pnts   type   level
>Armoury (Vehicle Weapons)      1      MA     12
>Armoury (Spaceship Weapons)    0.5    MA     11
>Astrogation                    0.5    MA     11
>Computer Operations            0.5    ME     12
>Cooking                        0.5    ME     12
>Driving (ATV)                  2      PA     13
>Electronic Op. (Comm.)         0.5    MA     11
>Electronic Op. (Sensors)       1      MA     12
>Electronics (Grav Vehicles)    2      MH     12
>Engineer (Manuever Drive)      0.5    MH     10
>Engineer (Ship Powerplant)     1      MH     11
>Fast Draw (Holster)            0.5    PE     12
>Flying                         1      PA     12
>Free Fall                      2      PA     13
>Galanglic                      1      MH     11
>Gunner (AutoCannon)            1      PA     14
>Gunner (Beam Weapons)          2      PA     15
>Gunner (Other Space Ship)      0      PA     13
>Gunner (Other Vehicle)         0      PA     12
>Guns, Accelerator Rifle        1      PE     15
>Guns, Gauss Gun                0.5    PE     14
>Guns, Pistol                   1      PE     15
>Guns, Rifle                    0.5    PE     14
>Interstellar Astrogation       1      MH     11
>Mechanic 
>   (Fuel Cell/Elect. Motor)    1      MA     12
>Merchant                       0.5    MA     11
>Navigation                     2      MH     12
>Oynprith                       1      MA     12
>Piloting (Grav Vehicle)        4      PA     14
>Piloting (Interplantary)       1      PA     12
>Piloting (Interstellar)        0.5    PA     11
>Survival (Plains)              0.5    MA     11
>Vacc Suit                      1      MA     12
>Zero-G Combat                  2      MA     13
>Aslan                          1      MH     11
>Savoir Faire (Aslan)           0.5    ME     12

Comments

  1.  That's a whole lotta skills you've got there!  At 36, it's
      about 20 more than most Traveller characters.  Is this unusual
      for a GURPS character?
      
  2.  I also didn't see any skills above 15, and only a few there.
      Most were 11 or 12.  That seems to mean he is *far* from
      guaranteed success on most tasks, even the normalish ones.


>The racial package gave him as disads...

>Fragile            -
>Obedient            -

>And I took...

>Overconfident               -10
>Comp. Beh., Save Money       -5
>Minor Greed                  -5
>Quirks                       -5
>SoD, Friends and Companions  -5
>Stubborness                  -5

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 00:22:54 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: ACQ and Penguins

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes:
>BTW must add the text saying 'No penguins were harmed....' to the credits.
>And tell James to hide the wrappers. Do we need an indirect fire diagram
>for penguins?

Your penguins come in wrappers?  We have to wrap our's in last week's
G&M... :-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 00:27:24 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: ACQ and Penguins

Mine come in dark green canisters labelled "105mm"

- --clif

>Your penguins come in wrappers?  We have to wrap our's in last week's
>G&M... :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:40:11 -0800
From: "Jesse LaBranche" <Vanquer@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Mormon Food Storage (was: Re: Moving Against Religions)

>> > So that is why they keep two years of food in storage...  Thank you...
>> I thought it was as ammunition for ravioli rail guns....  >;-)
>I think I shall let brother Jesse answer this...  But, if you have a
>ravioli rail gun, could you use a can of green beans in it...
>Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart


Well, I'd say that my experiences with my own personal railgun
(for defensive purposes of course), show that a can of green
beans will work... IF it's the same size can... However, you may
have to adjust the figures a bit to allocate for the weight difference
between the two cans.
Of course, if you get a double barreled railgun, then you could have
a 3-course (Ravioli, Beans, Target) meal ready upon impact :-)

Later.

Jesse.
vanquer@email.msn.com
http://www.gryffon.com/leta
for all your role-playing needs
ICQ. 8004143

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 98 23:45:14 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: CT/MT vs GT skills

On 12/30/98 at 09:10 AM,  James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net> said:

>When I started converting my MegaTraveller campaign over to GURPS
>back in '93, I came up with the following:

>     Engineer/TL (Life-Support)
>     Engineer/TL (Power Plant)
>     Engineer/TL (Maneuver Drive)
>     Engineer/TL (Jump Drive)
>     Electronics/TL (Life Support)
>     Electronics/TL (Manoeuvre Drive)
>     Electronics/TL (Power Plant)
>     Electronics/TL (Jump Drive)

That's *8* skills you have to buy up!  <whistle> A competent 
Engineer probably won't have many skills outside the Engine Room at
this rate.  That's not *nessecerily* a bad thing, but...

>According to GURPS Basic Set, Third Edition - Revised (p 60), "a
>successful roll [against Engineer skill] will let you (for example):
>... diagnose a mechanical or electrical problem; perform a
>repair...."  (A successful roll against Electronics skill will let
>one "...diagnose a glitch; perform a repair....")  I'm therefore not
>certain Mechanic skill is required, but if so, I would include:

>     Mechanic/TL (Power Plant)
>     Mechanic/TL (Life Support)
>     Mechanic/TL (Jump Drive)

>I would include Mechanic (Manoeuvre Drive) if HEPlaR technology were
>being used, but I don't think it would be necessary for thruster
>plates.

Gravitics have to come in here somewhere.  It would be more
realistic to have specializations for different kinds of maneuver
drives Chemical Rocket, CG, TPlate, Fusion, HEPlaR...whatever.  The
character would only need one or two, usually, and you could default
on the others at some minus value.

>However, both Electronics/TL and Engineer/TL are primarily concerned
>with designing the specified equipment, not with operating it on a
>routine basis.  

That's how I read it.  A run of the mill Ship Engineer is a
different animal.

>Shouldn't there also be some sort of professional
>skill required, such as Starship Engineer?  And if so, should it have
>the required specialties, as above, or should it just be a generic
>skill?

I guess it depends on the number of skills and what levels they have
to be built up to.  Ideally, I'd like each of the Ship Professions
(Engineering, Bridge, Steward, Medical, Gunnery) to have a set of 5
or 6 core skills that define competence within their profession,
with another few associated skills.  Then the character would have
another 8 to 10 skills providing flavor for the character.

Examples:

Engineering Core Competencies
  Power Systems (specialized)
  Manuever Drive (specialized)
  Jump Drive
  Gravitics
  Electronics (general, with various specializations)
  Mechanics  
  Life Support Repair

Steward Core Competencies
  Liasion
  Service (passenger care)
  Cargo Handling
  Administration
  Life Support Ops (perhaps Cooking & Cleaning fall here)
  
Medical
  Diagnosis
  Treatment
  Surgery
  Pharmacology
  Xenobiology
  
Bridge
  Pilot (Jump)
  Pilot (maneuver - specialization)
  Astrogation
  Sensor Ops
  Communication Ops

Gunnery
  Gunner (offensive - specialization)
  Gunner (defensive - specialization)
  Sensor Ops
  Comm Ops
  Ship Security


What do you think?

Eris
    
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1337
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 31 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1338



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.
Re: Ravioli Gun
Re: GURPS Traveller Character
Re: Ravioli Gun
Re: Long Night
Re: GURPS Traveller Character
Trade Model
Re: Pocket Empires query
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: World Services
Re: An Open Letter (was: SPAM ALERT etc.)
Re: Micro Jumps
Re: Drawing the Line
Re: Ravioli Gun
Re: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time.
Re: Pocket Empires query
good idea for a scenario reply
What's the Scoop?
[none]
New Year's Toast To TML...
Correction to Book Reference.
flamethrowers...
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 98 00:05:40 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

On 12/31/98 at 01:39 AM,  Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi> said:

>  BTW I agree that 12 is a basic competency level. I just don't think
>most people would have all that many skills higher than this, and
>even the highest ones probably wouldn't exceed 15 ,unless the person
>was almost legendary in his field. (I have hard time picturing a
>far-trader crewed by nothing but legends.) I'm not saying a skill of
>18 couldn't appear in a game. What I an trying to say is, that people
>with these should be one in a million (at least), not every second
>PC. 

I might not call 16 "legendary", but I tend to agree with you.  I
think really competent characters should come in at 14 to 16 on
their *best* skills.  Of course, if you look at the descriptions on
the infamous p45 you will see SJG officially calls 12 Rather-skilled,
14 Well-trained and 16 and above Expert.

Maybe we can apply FUDGE skill descriptors here, and compare them to
the GURPS values from page 45 for reasonability?

Legendary*  18+
Superb      16     Expert
Great       14     Well-trained
Good        12     Rather-skilled
Fair        10     Average
Mediocre     8     Mediocre
Poor         6     Inept
Terrible     4
             3     Abysmal

*Which PC's aren't supposed to get to anyway.  ;-> 

I think this matches up pretty good.  It would match up with the
Step 2 Task Difficulty Levels I posted earlier too.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 98 00:28:34 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

On 12/30/98 at 10:04 PM,  "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> said:

>Geez, when I first asked if rail guns would work against starships in
>Traveller, I was laughed at & now this little post proves that I am
>right...  Bwahahahahahahahahaha (evil laughter)...

Only if the ships travel *reeeealy* slow...or you boost that can'o tuna up to
near c...sea...see?  ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 98 00:34:52 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Character

On 12/30/98 at 03:07 PM,  "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net> said:

>Eris' suggestion to post some characters got me thinking, so here is
>my first contribution :)

Just my attempt to start a thread that is at least *remotely*
connected with the game of Traveller.  ;-> 

And because I have something of a block when it comes to creating
GURPS characters.  I'm not sure exactly what the problem is, but
*something* about GURPS character creation bugs me...alot.

>3.) The UNOFFICIAL but entertaining random creation system created by
>Robert M. Brown in the article "Some Classic Randomness" and
>published by Pyramid Online. This system, while it is not exactly
>like the old Classic system (no survival rolls, lots more skills, no
>"mustering out"), does allow for varying point levels and has a good
>'feel' to it. It's probably worth the $15 for a year's subscription
>just for those of you who would like to use it :)

>The following is a character I created using this third method.
>Following the character, I will explain how I 'tweaked'it, and
>special issues arising from the use of these tables.

Thanks, I'll study it and get back to you. ;->

Eris
    ps 29 skills in this one.  Man, I'm starting to think that 30+
    skills is par for GURPS!
    
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 00:22:01 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

> From: Eris Reddoch <eris@gulf.net>
> Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun
> 
> >Geez, when I first asked if rail guns would work against starships in
> >Traveller, I was laughed at & now this little post proves that I am
> >right...  Bwahahahahahahahahaha (evil laughter)...
> 
> Only if the ships travel *reeeealy* slow...or you boost that can'o tuna
up to near c...sea...see?  ;->

Of course, but then if you are using chemical drive, then you would be
going reeeeeaaaaaaaly slow...  Would you not?  And then a rail-gun would be
a viable weapon on which to twack your enemy...  Would it not?

> Eris

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:56:12 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: Long Night

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: Long Night</title></head><body>
<div>Great post Hans. I will incorporate some of your background
material into my campaign, but some events do not match published
material.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -2177&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Estigarribia's&nbsp; son&nbsp; is&nbsp; proclaimed&nbsp; Emperor
Hiroshi II.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Multiple reference sources, including the Traveller Chronicle
and G:T rulebook, specify that Estigarribia's chief of staff, <font
color="#000000">Admiral Yev Gennaz</font>, proclaimed himself Emperor
Hiroshi II. Traveller Chronicle gives the date as -2182. Estigarribia
himself was a democrat and specifically avoided making the positions
of Regent of the Vilani Imperium and Protector of Terra hereditary.
He would probably have been horrified at what the Rule of Man was to
become.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>-2100 to -1849&nbsp; The RoM fails to
settle on a formal method of choosing a<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
></span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; emperor.&nbsp; Succession
struggles routinely causes massive<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
></span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; civil unrest.</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Since the beginning of the RoM the Regent and Protector would
choose their successors, but this choice could be overturned by the
Council of Officers. According to Unbroken Pride
(http://www.iinet.net.au/~mickb/UP), after the death of Emperor
Ladislau in <font color="#000000">-1971</font> the council began to
ignore the current holder's wishes. This was the trigger for the
succession crises.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>-1849 to -1776&nbsp; Succession
struggles becomes worse. Up to a dozen indivi-<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
></span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; duals may be vying for the
throne at any one time.</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>When Empress Catherine died in -1820 the now Council of Noble
Officers could not decide on a successor and the RoM effectively
fragmented into self-governing provinces.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Struggles for supremacy among the RoM provinces broke into open
warfare in -1819. Admiral Aideed Paskevi defeated all his rivals and
declared himself Emperor Hiroshi V in -1816. He disbanded the Council
of Noble Officers and eliminated the Imperial Navy to prevent anyone
from gaining enough power to overthrow him. He also abolished the
traditional Vilani caste system. This, more than the warfare,
triggered the industrial collapse of the Rule of Man.</div>

<div><br>
- --<br>
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- </div>
</body>
</html>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 02:22:23 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Character

Eris did speaketh thusly:

>    ps 29 skills in this one.  Man, I'm starting to think that 30+
>    skills is par for GURPS!


It is. Actually, it can get worse than that. Character points are limited to
2 times the character's age ... but not the number of skills. Since GURPS
gives a player the ability to give a character 1/2 point in a skill, this
means that a potential munchkin can have 4x his age in skills ... *very*
annoying.

I'll stick with FUDGE. :-)

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:38:05 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Trade Model

Ian Whitchurch wrote:

>The economics model isnt too bad, once you take Pocket Empires
>and kick it into shape (base costs on population etc). It's the
>vanilla trade model that really badly sucks - it neither makes
>sense, encourages adventure, or makes it possible to duplicate
>the canon background.

   I've been tinkering with the trade model a little recently. 
   I decided to adapt the TNE model, and classify speculative trade goods
as raw materials, processed materials, manufactured goods, information, and
novelties. 
   I added a table which gives the chances of a cargo being one of these
types, depending on the world's trade class and influenced by the size of
the cargo. (Major cargoes tend to be natural resources; Incidental tend to
be information or novelties). Another table gives supply/demand modifiers
to purchase and sale price, also based on the world's trade class.  Types
of cargo are cheaper to obtain and sells for less where it is already
abundant; they are more expensive to obtain and sell for more where they
are scarce.  
   The base purchase price of all cargoes except raw materials is computed
as with the normal rules. For raw materials, Ignore the TL modifier and
instead, use modifiers based on the planetary Resources score of PE's
Economic extension to the UWP.  A price multiplier is rolled for, so that
not all cargoes cost the same. Raw Materials get a negative modifier so
that on the average they cost less than the base price. Manufactured goods
get a positive modifier so that they tend to cost more. The Supply/Demand
modifier of the market world for the type of cargo applies to this price
modifier.
  Base selling price for everything but raw materials is determined as
according to the "vanilla" rules, except that the price multiplier which
was determined with the goods were purchased applies. The marketworld
supply/demand modifier affects the role for actual sale price in addition
to the broker skill.
For raw materials, ignore TL effects on base selling price and use the
resource score of the marketworld instead. Apply the price multiplier and
roll for actual sale price as above.

Under the vanilla rules, a lot of two-way trade links are money losers,
since the expected profit on goods carried one way is more than offset by
the expected loss going the other direction. High brokerage skill only
partly compensates. 
Under this system, a trader who knows to carry food or forestry products
from a low TL Ag world to the neighboring high TL In HiPop world and
tractors and radios back has a chance at economic survival.

I just recently began working with this system and don't have extensive
experience with either it or the "vanilla" one. I can post the details if
anyone would like to try this system out and comment on it.
  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:38:14 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires query

Don McKinney

>Ok:  In the "Pocket Emperor Player Characters" section, there's
>an extremely useful table for quick generation of Diplomats and
>Bureaucrats by rank.  Has anyone put together tables like that
>for other careers?

I haven't, although its somewhere on my "things I'd like to get
around to doing" list.  From a quick lookover of the Diplomats
and Bureacrats careers, it shouldn't be hard to create a similar
scheme for the other careers. 
I did put together a classified skills list which attempts to
reconcile TNE and T4 skills, and made an attempt at a few NPC
careers: Technician, Teamster, Outdoorsman, Spacer.

 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:39:33 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

Jon F. Ziegler asked:

>Hey, is your text Carroll and Ostlie?

I don't even remember. I borrowed it from the local University
Library back in August when I was trying to create a reasonably
realistic table for atmospheric taint, and had to return it
before I finished the job. Then I started back to school full
time and haven't had time to go back and find it again. I I could
find it again if I wanted to, but for right now, I have too many
other demands on my time.

 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:42:13 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: World Services

>Well, let's all send in examples of pop-densities from around
>the planet, collate them and then try and establish a middle
>ground to work from IOTU. Sound like an idea?

Organization of information is usually at least as much of a
challenge than compiling it. I use a profile something like this
for my communities. Some of this can be created using Traveller
rules; other parts pf ot.  so far require considerable creativity
and there are few guidelines to help.

Community social profile:
     Population (Code and multiplier)
     Racial or ethnic composition.
     Language(es)
     TL detail

     Families
          Important and influential families or individuals
     Economic Characteristics
          Agriculture:
               (Productivity, demands, deficit or surplus for
               export)
          Buildings
               environmental factors.
               (Construction, maintenance, Lodging services.
          Communications media
          Transportation facilities and activity
               (Ground, water, air, space facilities and
               services)
          Industrial facilities and activity 
               (mining, manufacturing, utilities)
          Services
               Medical and social.
               Financial. (Retailers, wholesalers, brokers, banks
               and lenders)
               Sports, recreation, and entertainment
          Corporate structure
     Government Characteristics
          Relationship to Imperium (Important nobles)
          Government type
          law level
          functions
               Military, law enforcement, revenue collection,
               others
     Educational characteristics
          Literacy, numbers and types of schools
     Religious characteristics
          (GM's discretion)
     Social characteristics
          World "character" and social trends.
          Affiliations, neighbors, and subdivisions.

 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:47:47 +0000
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: An Open Letter (was: SPAM ALERT etc.)

In message <199812300812.VAA03493@cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz>, Andrew
Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> writes
>Now I will get off my soapbox and convert it into a racer for my children (a
>much better use) and hope that the level of posting can rise above that which
>I would expect from those children.

Could I borrow the soapbox and make a heartfelt plea of my own?  Could
people *please* cut out text which isn't needed when you reply?  A full
page of text with an added "Me too!" is a complete waste of space and
some of us pay for downloading it.  Look how Andrew selected the
relevant parts of several messages to reply to - perhaps if that was
done (taking a little more time and thought) we wouldn't see the current
flaming.
- -- 
Martin Hardgrave

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:30:28 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Micro Jumps

Leonard Erickson writes:

>H. Beam Piper had jumps take almost no time in realspace, but the folks
>on board ship experienced time during the jump... 

What story is that? It sounds like one I don't know.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "Could you not begin at the beginning and go on until you come
	 to the end, and then, if you are able to, stop?"
	"I'll try," said his lordship, "but I always find the stopping
	 business so difficult."
			--- "Murder must advertise" by Dorothy Sayers

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 08:58:10
From: Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it>
Subject: Re: Drawing the Line

- ------------------------------

>Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:19:14 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Drawing the Line
>>
>> This could be a good scenario for a Scout team. The referee may easily
>> introduce techincal, diplomatic and even military complications along the 
>> way.
>>
>> Any further ideas on this?
>
>Frankly, I'd be tempted to mark the line by using the ship's laser to
>fuse it into the soil and cut it into rock. But you still need to do a
>*lot* of surveying work first. 
I am not sure of the distance you could cover in a given period using this
method. How long would it take, for example, to "draw" a 10 miles line
using a laser? Would it be significantly faster than working on the surface? 
Also, what about collateral damage (like starting forest fires, or
accidentally killing natives, travelers and so on)?
Given the low TL the local people would perhaps prefer something they
understand (i.e. a fence-like structure, a series of posts) than a magical
death ray which neatly cauterizes everything on its way. I suppose that
some parties would be already enraged/suspicious by the fact that the team
is using "proprietary" tech to define the line, and this could create
political problems.


>For one thing, even with IISS quality gear, it'll take a while to just
>establish *where* the poles and equator are. And then determing
>latitude on the surface may or may not be easy, depending on the
>availability of a usable pole star for making observations. 
This will be the reason to use the scout over you as a mobile "reference
point" which could be used to define your position on the surface. This way
the calculations are made for you by the ship's computer/sensor, and you
just go on drawing the line over the surface.

The real fun starts when the line crosses a small town... or the sacred
burial ground of native ... or neatly bisect a gold mine...








__  Paolo Marino  __          |Inrete Games Page: www.inrete.it/games/gms.html
 mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred) | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 02:30:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

In mail you write:

> Ian or Katts wrote:
>> 
>> At 03:24 PM 30/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> 
> <<snip>>
>> 
>> >From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>> >
>> >And I have to wonder when Famille Spofulam will come out with their
>> >line of "canned goods launchers" :-)
>> 
>> Thats 'Highly Accelerated Resupply Process' ...
>> 
> And how many folks will understand _that_ acronym (other than fans of
> Dr. Bull's work)?

Arggh! It slipped right by me!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 02:37:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time.

In mail you write:

> the rules contained therin to calculate tansit time, by checking the
> relative positions of both worlds. My pedantic player piped up with
> the argument that since the GG was outer system, with a much longer
> Orbital period then the inner world, the course to use would be
> different. (We stopped the game for about 5 mins while I worked
> orbital periods out - then used an arbitary hand wave and said that
> at year 0, all worlds were in alignment all over the galaxy)

<snip>

> I have since thought that a possible better alternative would be to
> use the earliest date known in Traveller which IIRC is -300,000 to
> get plenty of variation in system's postitions.

My approach would be much the same, except that I'd likely use Julian
Day #0 (1 Jan 4713 BC old style), since all my date related coding uses
that as a common base.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 08:40:54 EST
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires query

In a message dated 12/31/98 3:41:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Sapience@compuserve.com writes:

<< 
 I did put together a classified skills list which attempts to
 reconcile TNE and T4 skills, and made an attempt at a few NPC
 careers: Technician, Teamster, Outdoorsman, Spacer. >>

	I adapted the MegaTraveller Pirate, Belter and Hunter careers to T4, if
anyone's interested in seeing the write up, let me know.
			Dave Nelson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 08:46:26 -0500
From: rbarr@jax.openware.com
Subject: good idea for a scenario reply

In mail you write:

> I'm wondering if this could be a good idea for a Traveller scenario...
>

I think the idea would be really good as a start for an adventure. I've been
a gamemaster for Traveller for over 20 years now. The concept is good and it
sounds like a regular technical mission that a group of scouts could get
assigned or hired to do.
Unless you have really technical minded players, keep the actual physics to
a minimum and focus on the activities involved in getting to the various
areas.
Things to think about:
Wild animals
border guard disputes
technical equipment failures (like grav belts)
:)
one of the players might even meet an attractive native with a jealous
boyfriend who is in the militia...
go for it!
Roger Barr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 08:47:22 EST
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: What's the Scoop?

	Does anyone know the scoop on the new version of Traveller that's supposed to
come out at end of 99?    I heard there was a playest version of the character
generation system out somewhere.   Sorry if this has been covered, but I'm new
to the list.
				Dave Nelson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 08:58:03 -0500
From: rbarr@jax.openware.com
Subject: [none]

If you starve the penguins for a few days, they will lose body mass, and
therefore become slimmer.
Will this provide any form of armor piercing bonus?
:)

Roger Barr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 00:22:48 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: New Year's Toast To TML...

Well, the latest TNS entry at SJ Games was dated 1116, so:

Happy New Year!

Everyone have a happy and prosperous 1117.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:10:47 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Correction to Book Reference.

I posted the wrong reference earlier for this:

'The Sparrow' by Mary Doria Russell
Pub Black Swan 97
ISBN 0-552-99777-3

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:20:53 -0500
From: rbarr@jax.openware.com
Subject: flamethrowers...

	Sure, if you follow the storyline as set out in the book.
Personally, in my
	game there is no Battledress and the troops get a flack jacket and
helmet.
	Flame-throwers become a scary thing when you're not encased in a
powered
	armour suit. :P
	Just label me Heretic ++

I like to see someone not afraid to keep players lightly armed and armored.
Makes life less secure for them, hence, they pay closer attention...
;)



Roger Barr
Customer Service Training Specialist
Openware
          a modis Solutions Company
1 Independent DR 10th Floor
Jacksonville  Fl   32202			
e-mail:  rbarr@jax.openware.com
Phone:  (904) 360-2139
    Fax:  (904) 360-2199
  Web : www.openware.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:38:09 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

At 01:39 AM 12/31/98 +0200, you wrote:
>On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, David P. Summers wrote:
> 
>> A low level realistic campaign will consider 18 quite impressive
>> while a high level cinematic one will have skills over 20... 
>> 
>> That being said, my experience is that you need a skill of
>> 12 to be seen as "competant".  I've always equated this to 
>> Skill-1.  OTOH, in a physical skill 18 is very high.  In 
>> some compaigns nobody will be this high, in others you may 
>> get a bit over.  For mental skills 18 is a bit more reachable, 
>> since the progression is flatter (but still pretty darn good), 
>> I few people will get his high and a skill of 20 is something 
>> that only a few characters will reach.  Since, in the games 
>> I've played, skill-4 was the highest I saw, I always equated 
>> these to that.
>
>  Would you like to explain to me how anybody is supposed to have skill
>levels of 18 (let alone over 18)? In my experience a qualified starship
>crewmember will need at least 20 or so different skills to even get a job.
>My character has 38, and is still lacking some crucial ones. (I conned my
>way into the crew, basically. Please don't tell the captain.) The way I
>see it, to get a skill of 18, you either have to have obscene stats of
>14-16 (costing a huge pile of points), or you have to spend in excess of
>20 points on each skill.
>
>  BTW I agree that 12 is a basic competency level. I just don't think most
>people would have all that many skills higher than this, and even the
>highest ones probably wouldn't exceed 15 ,unless the person was almost
>legendary in his field. (I have hard time picturing a far-trader crewed
>by nothing but legends.) I'm not saying a skill of 18 couldn't appear in a
>game. What I an trying to say is, that people with these should be one in
>a million (at least), not every second PC. 
>
>  Another point is, that a person with engineer/jump drive-18 (for
>example) would probably have committed most of his life to training in
>that single field. With IQ 12 (a bright person) you would need 16 points
>for this. With 400 hrs of practical work required for 1 skill pt, this

That time is halved with a teacher.  I would assume a 4 year degree from the
merchant marine accadamy (or an applied sciences collage or trade school)
with the sudent having a 10 + in many skills and a 12+ in his specialty
followed by a lengthy period as a junior grade in his proffession during
witch he is learning while he works under a 'master' with a skill in the
neighborhood of 20+  At skill 15 or so he might go out on his own or he may
stay with a good teacher to get real good before he goes out on his own or
takes over from his master.  The newly minted crew man would of course
continue to learn in his proffession over the course of his curreer or he
could become complacent and take a less demanding position like on a tramp
freighter.

As to skill levels, there are 'helper' your PC can use.  Computer programs
of varios types, detailed schematic, better tools, ect.

If I was running this type of charater I would put in the budget money for a
belt mounted computer with a wireless headset.  It it would have a very
detailed schematic and trouble shooting guide for every piece of equipment I
was responcible for maintaining (a +4 or more bonus), a high grade expert
system (+4 more), top of the line tools (+2 or more), robot assitances (+2
as helpers and good for when multiple easy jobs need doing but check behind
then),  a damned good technical library ( +1 and up), and I would implement
a schedule for increased maintainence to get both familiarity bonuses and a
bonus for have the equipment well maintained.  Even assuming only so of the
above you are looking at a 4+ bonus for a 16+ effective skill.  With good
but not great gear 20+.

>comes up to 6400 hrs, over 3 years of solid work in nothing but one single
>skill.(doing _nothing_ else)  The actual time to reach this level would
>probably be many times more. A person like this would probably be drawing
>a huge paycheck from a megacorp, not working on a leaky far-trader getting
>shot at by pirates.

Most professionals in highly technical fields do not reach the level of
professional recognition of their competence until they are in their 30s
unless they are wonder kids.  The first thing a new collage graduate learns
when he gets into the real world is just how much more he has to learn.
Your above comments and mine prove the reality of the situation.  A 21 year
old Space tech grad is a danger to himself and those around him.  At 22 he
should be good for basic maintainence if he is still alive.  At 24-26 a
reliable crewman.  At 26-28 a crew leader.  At 30+ assistance chief.  At 35+
chief.  At 40+ a 'breaker in' for green Space tech kids.  At 50+ master
engineer.

You do not see shipping lines put 20 year olds in charge of Super tankers or
army generals 20 years old.  Some professions need youth, those that require
the physical parameters of youth and most of those are sports related.  In
most professions, experience counts.   Whether that experience comes from
'book learning' or on the job training is not all that important, but the
experience itself counts.

Perhaps the ship your character is on is hoping your character will 'grow'
to be the person they need and can depend on.

Charles L.

Yes I am still around.  I just did not have anything meaningful to add
lately and I find no pleasure in flame wars or useless circular arguments
based on limited and contradictary data.

Also I am in the process of adding a new lady into my life and that is
taking up a great deal of my free time.

Charles L.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1338
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 31 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1339



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller World Building
WBH vs GS/GC (long)
Re: CT/MT vs GT skills
Re: WBH vs GS/GC (long)
RE: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time.
Re: What's the Scoop?
Re: 
Re: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time
RE: mass driver! Cool!
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
Re: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time
Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas. 
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.
Re: Ravioli Gun
Traveller Material for Sale
Traveller Material for Sale
GURPS Skill levels
Character Creation in GT
GURPS Task System

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:40:56 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

In a message dated 12/31/98 3:42:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
Sapience@compuserve.com writes:

> >Hey, is your text Carroll and Ostlie?
>  
>  I don't even remember. I borrowed it from the local University
>  Library back in August when I was trying to create a reasonably
>  realistic table for atmospheric taint, and had to return it
>  before I finished the job. Then I started back to school full
>  time and haven't had time to go back and find it again. I I could
>  find it again if I wanted to, but for right now, I have too many
>  other demands on my time.

Just curious, as you mentioned that your text had been published in 1996
and I noticed that mine had the same date on it.  Can't be *that* many
worthwhile texts on astrophysics published in the same year. . .

- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, freelance writer, amateur
historian, science fiction fan, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
JFZeigler@aol.com
"Never speak for others. You can get in enough trouble speaking for yourself."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 08:40:47 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: WBH vs GS/GC (long)

To all Scouts and World-Builders interested,

In the WorldBuilding thread, someone requested some information
comparing WBH and GS/GC.  In response to that request, I ran a quick
comparison of MT's WBH (World Builder's Handbook) vs CT's GS (Grand
Survey) and GC (Grand Census).  This is what I found out.

Most of the general material is very similar, although WBH changes
some of the wording and formats (sidebars, bulleted lists, outlines.)
 Beyond these general differences, I found the following:

The Donosev Survey Vessel is detailed under High Guard stats in GS 
and MT stats in WBH.  Also, some slight cosmetic differences in 
deckplans exist, but the layout remains the same.

As Extended System Generation is part of the normal MT system
generation procedures, all WBH utilize the Scouts formulas,
presented in a much more structured format using outlines.  GS and
GC offer Basic system generation alternatives.

Under Size-Related Details:

In determining Planet Density, WBH defines Heavy Core as a Core Type, 
achieved on a modified 1- on the Core Type Table.  The relavent 
densities for this type are (3d6):

3   1.10
4   1.15
5   1.20
6   1.25
7   1.30
8   1.35
9   1.40
10  1.45
11  1.50
12  1.55
13  1.60
14  1.70
15  1.80
16  1.90
17  2.00
18  2.25

Rotation Period:  To further define rotation periods expressed as 
days, WBH adds (1d6-3) X 4 hours, while GS adds 1d6 X 4 hours to the 
base rotation.

Seismic Stress Factor:  Heavy Core mods are 1d6-2.

WBH also adds the following under Size-Related Details that is not 
covered by GS:

*Gas giant UWP size generation, with a UWP table for both small (2d6) 
and large (3d6) gas giants.  These UWP size values enable primary 
calculations of mass from the density table, and satellite orbital 
period and rotation, for mainworlds that are satellites of gas giants 
in Habitable Zones.

*Asteroid/Planetoid Belt Profile generation (pg 61, WBH:  includes
Predominate Body Diameter, Max Body Diameter, Predominate Zone Type,
Zone Composition Tables, Belt Orbit Width and Belt Profile Notation)

Under Atmosphere-Related Details:

WBH determines Type F Atmosphere Surface Atm Pressure as a roll under 
the Thin column, minus 0.20 atm.  The referee just chooses one under 
GS.

WBH has a very easily utilized presentation of the Scouts Surface 
Temp calculations, and includes reference tables as needed.

WBH Resource information is slightly changed from GS:

*Heavy Core type has been added to the density sections of the 
Natural Resources and Processed Resources tables. 

*Terrain was removed from the Resource tables under WBH.  Density no 
longer effects Manufactured Resources under WBH.

*Under Natural Resources, Petrochemicals changed to Compounds.

*Under WBH, Processed Resources defines:  Agroproducts, Metals, 
Non-Metals.

*Under WBH, Manufactured Resources defines:  Parts, Durables, 
Consumables, Weapons.

*NEW to WBH:  Information Resources, which defines:  Recordings, 
Artforms, Software, Documents.

*Some DM differences between GS and WBH based on differences in 
Resource types between the two.  All of WBH Resource info is on pg 
71, WBH.

GC includes a means of determining the presence of a minor race on 
worlds with native evolved life.  (3d6: 17+, DM+3 if Pop 6+.  If a 
minor race is present, then it is a minor human race on a second 3d6 
roll of 15+)  WBH does not have a method to determine the presence 
of a minor race.

Under Technology Profile:

The Energy Lower Limit for WBH is High Common TL/2; under GC, it is 
Upper Limit - 5.

The Communication TL Base in WBH is Computer/Robotics TL; under GC, 
it is the lower of Computer/Robotics TL or Energy TL.

The Medical TL Base under WBH is the Computer TL; under GC, it is the 
High Common TL.

The Environmental TL Base for WBH is the High Common TL; while under 
GC, it is the Energy TL.

Under the generation of the Space Transport TL, GC states that if the 
starport type is X, then the TL=Space Transport Lower Limit.  WBH has 
no such indicator.

There were probably more differences, but that's all I could find on 
short notice.  I hope this helps out.

In Service,
Jason
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:53:04 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: CT/MT vs GT skills

Eris Reddoch and James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain said:

> That's *8* skills you have to buy up!  <whistle> A competent
> Engineer probably won't have many skills outside the Engine Room at
> this rate.  That's not *nessecerily* a bad thing, but...
> 
> >However, both Electronics/TL and Engineer/TL are primarily concerned
> >with designing the specified equipment, not with operating it on a
> >routine basis.
> 
> That's how I read it.  A run of the mill Ship Engineer is a
> different animal.
> 
> >Shouldn't there also be some sort of professional
> >skill required, such as Starship Engineer?  And if so, should it have
> >the required specialties, as above, or should it just be a generic
> >skill?
> 

Eris said:

> I guess it depends on the number of skills and what levels they have
> to be built up to.  Ideally, I'd like each of the Ship Professions
> (Engineering, Bridge, Steward, Medical, Gunnery) to have a set of 5
> or 6 core skills that define competence within their profession,
> with another few associated skills.  Then the character would have
> another 8 to 10 skills providing flavor for the character.
> 
> Examples:
> 
> Engineering Core Competencies
>   Power Systems (specialized)
>   Manuever Drive (specialized)
>   Jump Drive
>   Gravitics
>   Electronics (general, with various specializations)
>   Mechanics
>   Life Support Repair
> 
> Steward Core Competencies
>   Liasion
>   Service (passenger care)
>   Cargo Handling
>   Administration
>   Life Support Ops (perhaps Cooking & Cleaning fall here)
> 
> Medical
>   Diagnosis
>   Treatment
>   Surgery
>   Pharmacology
>   Xenobiology
> 
> Bridge
>   Pilot (Jump)
>   Pilot (maneuver - specialization)
>   Astrogation
>   Sensor Ops
>   Communication Ops
> 
> Gunnery
>   Gunner (offensive - specialization)
>   Gunner (defensive - specialization)
>   Sensor Ops
>   Comm Ops
>   Ship Security
> 
> What do you think?
> 

Good list, and good explanations.  I think that computer skills need to
be in there someplace at least in the Bridge section, or do Sensor Ops
cover that?  What role does the computer skill play BTW?

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:02:40 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: WBH vs GS/GC (long)

In a message dated 12/31/98 9:44:30 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us writes:

> To all Scouts and World-Builders interested,
>  
>  In the WorldBuilding thread, someone requested some information
>  comparing WBH and GS/GC.  In response to that request, I ran a quick
>  comparison of MT's WBH (World Builder's Handbook) vs CT's GS (Grand
>  Survey) and GC (Grand Census).  This is what I found out.

[snip]

Thanks.  That helps considerably.

- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, freelance writer, amateur
historian, science fiction fan, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
JFZeigler@aol.com
"Never speak for others. You can get in enough trouble speaking for yourself."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:04:00 -0500
From: rbarr@jax.openware.com
Subject: RE: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time.

Derrick,
As a fan of science, I applaud your sense of detail in the orbital positions
problem, but as a referee, this could have been handled much easier.
Make sure that the players follow your plot line in the game, as you have
detailed it out.
If the SDB needs to catch them in order to make sure they have a few scars
on the old hull, then let it get close enough to do a little damage. If not,
then let the players BARELY escape.
The best times I have ever had as a referee is when my players hit jumpspace
three seconds before a missile with a lock-on strikes them.
Less science and not quite as exacting, but the end result is more cinematic
and intense, which my players always appreciate. After they stop sweating...
:)

Roger Barr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 06:17:45
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: What's the Scoop?

At 08:47 AM 12/31/98 EST, you wrote:
>	Does anyone know the scoop on the new version of Traveller that's
>supposed to come out at end of 99?    I heard there was a playest version
of >the character generation system out somewhere.   Sorry if this has been
>covered, but I'm new to the list.

Marc is indeed working on the new version.  You can request the playtest
files from him at FarFuture@aol.com

Doug, home sick and hating it.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 06:16:03
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: 

At 08:58 AM 12/31/98 -0500, you wrote:
>If you starve the penguins for a few days, they will lose body mass, and
>therefore become slimmer.
>Will this provide any form of armor piercing bonus?

No, but if you wrap a ferrous band around them, you could shoot them out of
a mass driver..
- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 15:28:29 -0000
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time

Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
<<
My approach would be much the same, except that I'd likely use Julian
Day #0 (1 Jan 4713 BC old style), since all my date related coding uses
that as a common base.

- - -->>

Thanks Shadow, now just what would that be in terms of Third Imperium...

<Frantically searching for Imp Encyclopaedia, while trying to prepare
good old fashioned Lancashire hotpot for 20 guests. 8 of us will be playing
Traveller just after the stroke of midnight. Could this be the first live
Traveller
game of 1999, (or will you have beaten us to it, Andrew MV - or our other
antipodean friends?)>

Just wonder what cataclysmic event will befall the PC's when we've drunk
the contents of my beer cellar (shed).

Wishing you all a peaceful and happy 1999.

Del Jones


"Over the next few hours, everyone on the ship becomes violently ill...."
William W Connors, TD14  ;-)


Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK

mailto:dojones@whitestar.u-net.com
http://www.whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:33:20 -0500
From: rbarr@jax.openware.com
Subject: RE: mass driver! Cool!

What if you dip the beak in teflon?

Roger Barr



> : 
> 
> 
> 
> No, but if you wrap a ferrous band around them, you could shoot them out
> of
> a mass driver..
> --
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:36:09 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

In a message dated 12/30/98 7:56:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
brclif@digital.net writes:

<< My less than serious point was that Ravioli can be unexpectedly volatile.
>>

Yes; the heartburn can be exquisite....:-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 15:42:26 -0000
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time

Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
<<
My approach would be much the same, except that I'd likely use Julian
Day #0 (1 Jan 4713 BC old style), since all my date related coding uses
that as a common base.
>>
- -
On looking into my Imp Encylopaedia. I find that, according to it, 4717BC
(Terran dating) is equivalent to 3955PI (Vilani dating), which is when they
(the Vilani) first discovered Jump Drive.

Given that there is some evidence that zero BC, if you wish to take it as
the Birth of Christ -(I'm not expressing an opinion so let's not discuss the
validity of the religion) -is out by some 4 years*, this could shift your
'Base
Day' to 4713 BC, and thus it could refer to the VIlani Jump Drive event.

Just a co-incidence, or are you trying to tell us something, Shadow?

;-)

*Note : Having said that I could be out by four years the other way, and
be totally wrong....


Derrick


Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK

mailto:dojones@whitestar.u-net.com
http://www.whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:47:20 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

>> From: Eris Reddoch <eris@gulf.net>
>> Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun
>>
>> >Geez, when I first asked if rail guns would work against starships in
>> >Traveller, I was laughed at & now this little post proves that I am
>> >right...  Bwahahahahahahahahaha (evil laughter)...
>>
>> Only if the ships travel *reeeealy* slow...or you boost that can'o tuna
>up to near c...sea...see?  ;->
>
>Of course, but then if you are using chemical drive, then you would be
>going reeeeeaaaaaaaly slow...  Would you not?  And then a rail-gun would be
>a viable weapon on which to twack your enemy...  Would it not?

The problem is twofold in traveller;

First, any manuverable craft can 'get out of the way' of any 'ballistic'
(that is, non-manuvering) object as long as it has time to change velocity
to be one creftlength away from its projected posistion.  A 1g vessel can
move 10 meters in the first second of acceleration from it projected
location, so if the range at which the projectile is fired is less than a
light second (200k km?), and the vessel is larger than 20 meters in all
surface dimensions, a hit is probably likely (Yes, I'm simplifying).
Increase acceleration, making a hit gets harder.  Decrease surface area,
making a hit gets harder.

Other assumptions; the projectile can be sensed at 1 ls by the target, the
projectile can be accelerated to .9c.

Second, assuming the projectile is the size of a can of, say, chefboyardee
ravioli (beef), any laser can pretty much pick it off.  The projectile is
not manuvering and has a course that is perfectly predictable, and an
aspect which is not changing much.  Tie your point defense laser into a
computer and you can hit the thing, every time.

At that point you can start asking about the fragments of tin can and meat
byproducts which, if they can retain the same vector, can be as damaging as
the whole can.  It is likely, however, that a projectile sufficiently small
that the energy can be generated to accelerate it to near-C can be
generated by another ship, will be vaoprized by the smallest of Traveller
lasers weapons, and the vaporized particles would have many different
vectors and in any case be smaller than one needs to worry about, in
general.

Drop your tech level to where radar is not as good, manuver drive takes
time to fire up, combat happens at 20,000 km, but energy is still cheap and
plentiful and maybe you'll get a good railgun-in-space environment.  I
can't quite envision that though.

The best kinetic weapon I've seen for Traveller is the BB Missile, which
manuvers until it's close to the target then explodes a shaped charge,
scattering 1 gram to 1 kilogram balls in a cloud around the targets
projected position.

This subject has been "done to death" in various forms, but basically this
weapon too will fail if the target can manuver or fire point defense.

Another possible use is as a last ditch anti-boarding weapon.  Assuming
that boarding actions are possible IYTU, once the attacker comes into
*really* short range (like 100km), they are (depending on your assumptions)
probably vulnerable to a rail-gun like weapon, the mass driver.  At that
range and with that weapon, the damage done will not be as serious as with
a near-c can of ravioli, but it is an example of a Kinetic weapon in
starship combat.

Pete

                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:48:21 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas. 

> In a message dated 12/30/98 7:56:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> brclif@digital.net writes:
> 
> << My less than serious point was that Ravioli can be unexpectedly volatile.
> >>
> 
> Yes; the heartburn can be exquisite....:-)

Hormel Chili is better.  Plus, you get the secondary gas effects.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 18:05:22 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain wrote:

> Don't forget the Eidetic Memory advantage.  It makes mental skills much
> easier to learn.  And computer (except Computer Operation) and engineering
> skills will be boosted by the Mathematical Ability advantage.

  Quite true. (In fact our ship's astrogator/economist has Mathematical
Ability.) These should, however, be possessed by maybe 0.5% os so of
peolpe, so they should be pretty rare with PC:s too. If it looked like
every PC in my campaign suddenly had some skill level boosting advantage,
I'd stomp on it _hard_.

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 08:18:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> writes:

> > Thats 'Highly Accelerated Resupply Process' ...
> > 
> And how many folks will understand _that_ acronym (other than fans of
> Dr. Bull's work)?

Ooh, ooh, I can just see the headlines now!  "Canned beef products and
penguins rain bloody death on Tel-Aviv.  Film at eleven!" :^) :^) Do
you suppose Ditzie will now become a high-profile target for Mossad
assassins? :^)

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:25:46 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Traveller Material for Sale

Encouraged by the results that others have recieved, esp. Nathan
(BigChip@BigNet.Net) I've decided to sell some of my Traveller stuff at
e-bay.

Now on sale:

Fifth Frontier War
Striker

Soon I'll be adding an number of JTAS mags.

See:
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&us
erid=paul@schirf.com

Paul@Schirf.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:58:59 -0500
From: "Paul Schirf" <pc@PerkWorks.com>
Subject: Traveller Material for Sale

Having just suffered the cut-off URL problem...

So if you're interested in the Fifth Frontier War
or Striker games just go to ebay
and search for Auctions by paul@schirf.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:05:15 EST
From: StevenA201@aol.com
Subject: GURPS Skill levels

In many GURPS contexts, a skill of 12 is basic competence, and 20 is
considered expert.  I wouldn't apply a term like "legendary" until skill level
is over 24, at least.

Also, in literature and in the real world, legendary-ness has more to do with
events than with skill levels.  Scotty may not be the greatest engineer in
space; he's legendary because he's the chief engineer on a legendary ship.  He
certainly has an "expert" skill level -- but experts may not be terribly rare.


In my PbeM, we have a pilot with Piloting-13 and another with Piloting-9.  But
the skill-13 is specialized in a different ship type, and so is an effective
skill-11.  Miss Piloting-9 is going to make for some excitement, sooner or
later.

We also have two engineers with various Mechanic skills from 10 to 16.  But
they are computer-aided, which helps.

The gunners have Gunnery-14 and 15.  They're fairly hot shots -- but hardly
legendary.

Too bad the ship's Cook and Merchant (Broker) is only a hireling.  The crew is
beginning to suspect she's about a 25-point character... and they haven't
discovered all her disadvantages yet...  heh, heh...


One of the premises of GURPS is that player characters normally start out at
100 points, which makes them "heroic."  My NPCs average 0-25 points, and range
from -50 to 150...  from total losers to moderate badasses.

In SF terms, I would guess the stars of Star Trek are in the 200-point range.
The redshirts might be about 25-50.  Star Wars characters are also "cinematic"
characters in the 200-300 range.  Coming down the scale, I would guess Scully
and Mulder are my idea of 100-point characters: impressive, fairly heroic, but
hardly legendary.  SF starring 25-point characters is usually comedy, or
perhaps cyberpunk.  500 points and you're material for Marvel Comix.

And something to remember is that even a negative-point character can make
real trouble.  Ever see "Home Alone?"
  --S

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:20:18 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Character Creation in GT

>>There are presently three methods for generating GURPS Traveller
characters.
>>They are:
>>
>>1.) Build from scratch as a GURPS character.


[snip]

>4.) Create a character using your favourite Traveller method, then convert
>him/her/it to GURPS.

I was referring to ways of building characters solely with the GURPS rules.
Yes, you can convert characters, although there are some problems associated
with this. One of the problems is that, using the system given in GT, you
will often wind up with skills that rate out at well BELOW the minimum level
you can buy for 1/2 point, which then (if you desire compliance with the
rules) requires you to raise those skills to the minimum level anyway, thus
making the character "better" than it should be at that skill. If you're
going to do that, might as well just build it with GURPS anyway (IMO). But
conversion is an option for those who want a more lengthy character creation
process. Me, I prefer the template system.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:27:43 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GURPS Task System

"In most versions of Traveller, all if you extend CT with the DGP
task system, we have a more formal system for grouping difficulties
into named "Task Difficulty Levels."  This is one area where I think
Traveller is *far* superior to GURPS."

I remember when I was on the old Illuminati BBS back when TNE came out,
Steve Jackson saying that the MegaTraveller task system was one he really
liked and something like that would be something he'd consider doing for
GURPS 4th, if it ever appears.

I believe that David Summers' article on GURPS Traveller had some methods of
converting at least TNE task levels to GURPS modifiers; that might be a good
place to start. I believe it is still available in the GURPSNet archives at
www.io.com/GURPSNet/Archives.

As I think about it, it almost seems that GURPS was the last major gaming
system released that didn't have some kind of task system. I agree that it
should have one, and a well-designed one would probably make a great Pyramid
article :)

allen

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1339
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 31 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1340



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Ravioli Gun
GURPS characters and skills
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1339
Re: GURPS Task System
Re: GURPS characters and skills
Re: Ravioli Gun
Jump Sickness
Penguins Attack!
TUSCALOOSA-class Heavy Cruiser (FF&S2) On-Line
Re: Jump Sickness
Re: Jump Sickness
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
Re: Ravioli Gun
Re: Jump Sickness
On Calendars
Re: Penguins Attack!
Terran Expansion prior to 1st IW
Happy 1999!
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 98 11:40:21 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

On 12/31/98 at 12:22 AM,  "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> said:

>> Only if the ships travel *reeeealy* slow...or you boost that can'o tuna
>up to near c...sea...see?  ;->

>Of course, but then if you are using chemical drive, then you would
>be going reeeeeaaaaaaaly slow...  Would you not?  And then a rail-gun
>would be a viable weapon on which to twack your enemy...  Would it
>not?

Ok, ok!  ;-> But, if you have a rail gun with enough oomph to be a
viable space weapon what are you doing with chemical drive ships?
;-p Stick a rail gun out your ship's tail and...well, feed it a
balanced diet of ravioli, beans and tuna.  ;->

And yes I'm getting silly, but it's New Year's Eve, so what do you
expect.

Eris,
    cheers to the pre-millennium...I propose we say it starts
    tomorrow and run a special pre-millennium party until 01/01/01
    when the next millenium *really* begins. ;->
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:43:57 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GURPS characters and skills

    "ps 29 skills in this one.  Man, I'm starting to think that 30+
    skills is par for GURPS!"

actually, it is, but most of the time this is not a problem. For one thing,
at 100 points, most GURPS characters will have attributes in the 10-12
range. If you bought 30 skills at 1 point each, you're looking at skills of,
say 11 for average skills, 10 for hard skills, 9 for very hard skills. You
would miss your rolls a fair amount of the time even on average tasks, much
more if there are modifiers. Most intelligent people won't do that. The
other problem lies with the GURPS default system; most skills default to
attributes or other skills. Buy your attributes up high enough and you
become a real jack of all trades. They did limit that somewhat with a cap on
default rolls, I believe any roll over 14 on a roll that defaults to an
attribute fails (I'm not sure of that exact number as I don't have my book
with me).
    On the average, a GURPS character at 100 points will have between 10 and
30 skills, usually with 1 point or 1/2 point in a lot of them, and the major
ones bought higher. It really depends on the player though. One thing the
template system does is control this and produce very reasonable characters,
which is why I require it's use in my GT game.

Eris: since a lot of this might be considered off-topic, I invite you to
feel free to e-mail me with any questions you might have on GURPS Character
Creation, and I'll see if I can't at least answer your questions.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:10:47 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1339

> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:27:43 -0500
> From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
> Subject: GURPS Task System
> 
> "In most versions of Traveller, all if you extend CT with the DGP
> task system, we have a more formal system for grouping difficulties
> into named "Task Difficulty Levels."  This is one area where I think
> Traveller is *far* superior to GURPS."

Well, I'll confess, not only do I use that, but somewhere, lost now,
I had compiled every Task ever described in various publications into
a "Task Library", sorted by skill.

I haven't been able to find that compilation in some time; if anyone
else has such, please let me know where I can find one...

> I remember when I was on the old Illuminati BBS back when TNE came out,
> Steve Jackson saying that the MegaTraveller task system was one he really
> liked and something like that would be something he'd consider doing for
> GURPS 4th, if it ever appears.

I'll also confess I use a modified version of the MT system in my HERO
games...


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:25:00 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Task System

I use the Hero system, similar to Gurps
All skill rolls are a number or less on 3d6
I use the following modifiers for 2300 AD tasks

2300AD Task Difficulty 
 Skill Roll Modifier for Hero System 
 
Easy
 -3
 
Moderate 
 -1
 
Difficult 
 +3
 
Formidable 
 +5
 
Impossible 
 +10
 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:13:08 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS characters and skills

Allen,

I do not really consider most of this off topic. I've used GURPS in the
past but I'm also learning a lot from the thread. Since GT is the
CURRENT Traveller game out there, I consider a good grounding in the
game mechanics necessary if we are to write for it. Please keep the
thread on list or include me in any mailings you make to Eris.

Mike Peters
Travelleri@home.com

Allen Shock wrote:
>  
> Eris: since a lot of this might be considered off-topic, I invite you to
> feel free to e-mail me with any questions you might have on GURPS Character
> Creation, and I'll see if I can't at least answer your questions.
> 
> Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:43:47 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> On 12/30/98 at 10:04 PM,  "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> said:
> 
> >Geez, when I first asked if rail guns would work against starships in
> >Traveller, I was laughed at & now this little post proves that I am
> >right...  Bwahahahahahahahahaha (evil laughter)...
> 
> Only if the ships travel *reeeealy* slow...or you boost that can'o tuna up to near c...sea...see?  ;->
> 

I take it you're using "Chicken of the Near-C" brand tuna....

> Eris
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:34:49 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Jump Sickness

Could someone please explain to me why Jump Sickness is contagious?

Is there a certain kind of bacteria only found in Jump Space?

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:36:44 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Penguins Attack!

I think laser-guided penguin bombs show promise...

Cover an airstrip with these, and it can make it bloody well difficult to
take off and attack.

- --Clif



>What if you dip the beak in teflon?
>
>Roger Barr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:47:57 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: TUSCALOOSA-class Heavy Cruiser (FF&S2) On-Line

<shameless plug>

I have just posted the TUSCALOOSA-class heavy cruiser to my Web site. 
This is the first ship that I have posted, and it is available in both
Rich Text Format and .zip format spreadsheet (Andrew Akins' FF&S2
spreadsheet, version 3.2, for Excel 5.0).

More ships will be added over the next few days.

</shameless plug>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:49:18 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jump Sickness

In a message dated 12/31/98 11:42:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
brclif@digital.net writes:

<< Could someone please explain to me why Jump Sickness is contagious?
 
 Is there a certain kind of bacteria only found in Jump Space?
 
 --Clif
 
  >>

The TAS posts implied that the jump sickness was a result of being exposed to
jump space, and that the disease was NOT contagious. I think that the victims
were quarantined for informational reasons, and not because of the disease
itself...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:57:51 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Sickness

Clif wrote:
> 
> Could someone please explain to me why Jump Sickness is contagious?
> 
> Is there a certain kind of bacteria only found in Jump Space?
> 
> --Clif

Assuming that you are referring to the (normally-fatal) effects of
direct exposure to Jump space, it is, as far as I can tell, neither
contagious nor caused by pathogens.  From the TNS (year 1112 Imperial):

"A dispatch from Terra/Sol (0207-A867A69-F) dated 121-1111 reads: 'The
first known victim known to survive direct exposure to hyperspace
arrived at Terra today, suffering from what medical experts are calling
"Hyperspace sickness".'"

I see nothing in the above entry, nor in subsequent TNS entries, that
would indicate that Jump sickness is caused by any kind of
microorganism.

If you have other references that indicate that Jump sickness is an
infection of some sort, I would be interested in seeing it. 


- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:03:00 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

> From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
> Subject: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

<Snip everything>

Why can you not lead the target?  I mean if it will work with the mk1
eyeball & mgs in WWII, then would it not work with supercomputers & rapid
firing rail guns?

Plus by your own admission, then you might as well not arm your
starships...  As any weapon you put on it, will not be able to hit its
target no matter what you do...  If your target is say 1 ls out (c. 300,000
km) then 3 second delay in targeting...  One second to get there, one
second for the pulse to return, & one second for the beam laser to hit... 
This is not including time to bring the laser on target, etc.  And missiles
now become almost useless, as they would travel much slower than a slug
from a rail gun...  By the time a missle gets close enough to its target,
the target is gone...  So what is the use of weapons systems then?

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:07:14 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

Ian or Katts wrote:
> 
> At 03:24 PM 30/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >Hay Ditzie, can you make one of those ravioli railguns for your helo from
> >hell. If so, I'll want to get one.
> 
> Wayne,
> 
> Ditzie isnt building anything for you until you learn to quote selectivly
> before posting ... but thatnks for the idea on the ravioli gun.
> 
> >From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> >
> >And I have to wonder when Famille Spofulam will come out with their
> >line of "canned goods launchers" :-)
> 
> Thats 'Highly Accelerated Resupply Process' ...

Oooh Oooh, Ditzie...tell your cousin in the small arms division, I'll pop for
a few hundred gauss Pez shooters, if you're getting into this kind of business ;-)

Darth Vader ones, of course!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 15:18:57 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Sickness

Clif,

Could you please be a bit more specific? Where are you getting the
reference to Jump sickness from? It doesn't ring any bells on it's own,
from Trav canon. IMT star ship crews experience a disorientation effect
from jump that can affect their reaction speeds for a period of time
after leaving Jump, but that's my own rule. I really like to know more
about what you are referring to.

Mike Peters
Travelleri@home.com

Clif wrote:
> 
> Could someone please explain to me why Jump Sickness is contagious?
> 
> Is there a certain kind of bacteria only found in Jump Space?
> 
> --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 21:09:04 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: On Calendars

I was cleaning up my room, and I found some apparently scrap
paper which had a comparison of the various calendars of known
space on it.  I thought it would be worth cleaning up, expanding
on, and posting, so here it is. It will also be incorporated into
Freelance Traveller.

Calendars in Known Space

Of course, the question to ask is "why worry?".  The answer, as
with so many other things, is "it's fun, and it adds local
color".  It makes the universe of Traveller feel "more real", and
it makes aliens just a little bit more alien.  But then, when
does a true Traveller fan really need an excuse for something
like this?

Calendars are a major part of our lives, and have been for
millennia.  For the most part, they began with agricultural
societies, and crude observations of stars, seasons, and tides.
From there, they progressed to more refined observations, and
often took on religious significance as well.  Further refinement
and social progress led to use of calendars for advance planning,
and fiscal accounting - but the calendar is always there.

In spite of the large number of cultures that developed
independently on Terra, there has been a remarkable similarity
among the calendars, with the same numbers appearing time and
again.  Many of these numbers are tied to natural rhythms or
other Terran phenomena; others have mystical significance due to
mathematical properties.  But what if you're not starting on
Terra?

This article looks at other calendars.  We don't try to analyze
the reasons behind them, only to give the rules governing the
count of days in them.  It is up to the referee, or background
author, to develop the history of the calendars and of the
societies.

It is necessary to define some terms that will be used in the
rest of the article, to reduce confusion.  The term 'day' is
reserved for the standard Imperial day of 24 hours; a local
planetary rotational cycle, regardless of length, will be
referred to as a 'sol'.  Similarly, the term 'year' is reserved
for the standard Imperial year of 365 days; a local planetary
revolutional cycle will be referred to as an 'ano'.

All of the information here is derived from published material
generally held to be canonical, from GDW and DGP, during the
Classic and MegaTraveller eras.

The first calendar we will look at is the Imperial calendar
itself: this calendar is based on a year of 365 days.  Each day
is subdivided into 24 hours, each of which is divided into 60
minutes, and each of those is divided into 60 seconds.  The days
are numbered sequentially from 1 to 365.  There is a semi-formal
subdivision called a 'week', consisting of seven days; the days
are named 'Oneday', 'Twoday', 'Threeday', 'Fourday', 'Fiveday',
'Sixday', and 'Sevenday'; these are normally elided into
'Wonday', 'Tuday', 'Thriday', 'Forday', 'Fiday', 'Sixday', and
'Senday'.  There are exactly 52 'weeks' in a year; day 001 is not
part of any week, and is traditionally a holiday, called
"Holiday".  Day 002 of any year always falls on the first Wonday.
Dates are normally written in the form '001-1105'; the number
before the hyphen is the day number; the number after is the year
number.  001-0001 is the date of the founding of the Third
Imperium by Cleon Zhunastu.

There has been some confusion about the structure of the Vilani
calendar; two different lengths for both the sol and the ano have
been given by different sources.  When information given about
Vland is checked against the formul given in the World Builder's
Handbook, it is revealed that the correct information is that a
sol is 32 hours, and an ano is 500 sols.  A sol is divided into
four quarters, or ten tenths; each tenth is further divided into
100 mils.  Traditionally, the Vilani count the dawn-to-dusk
period separate from the dusk-to-dawn period.  Thus, there are
1000 half-sols in a Vilani ano.  The ano is considered to start
at dawn; this is half-sol 001 of the year; at dusk, half-sol 001
ends, and half-sol 002 begins.  Dates are written in the form
'3882.001'; the ano number is before the decimal point; the
number of the half-sol is after.  There are two correspondences
given; both cannot be correct.  Either Imperial year -4045 is
Vilani ano 1, or Imperial year 1120 is Vilani ano 3882.  Vilani
ano 1 is the date of founding of the Vilani Grand Empire of the
Stars (Ziru Sirka).  An exact match between specific dates on the
Imperial and Vilani calendars has not been given; for simplicity,
assume that the beginning of the corresponding year (whichever
one is chosen) matches on both calendars.

The Solomani dating system is a close match in terms of sol and
ano lengths to the Imperial and Sylean systems.  The sol is
equivalent to the day, and divided similarly; the ano is
generally 365 sols.  However, the Solomani calendar is still
closely tied to astronomical phenomena on Terra, and, as the
Terran ano is not exactly 365 Terran sols, some adjustment to the
calendar is needed.  There is a complex rule that adds an extra
(intercalary) sol to the calendar in 97 out of every 400 anos.
The ano is divided into 12 'months' of varying but roughly equal
lengths; each month has a name and a fixed number of sols. The
month names, in order from the beginning of the year, and the
number of sols in each, are: 'January' (31), 'February' (28),
'March' (31), 'April' (30), 'May' (31), 'June' (30), 'July' (31),
'August' (31), 'September' (30), 'October' (31), 'November' (30),
'December' (31).  The extra sol, when needed, is added to
February.  Sols are counted sequentially from 1 in each month.
There are several common forms for writing dates, some of which
are potentially ambiguous.  The two most common unambiguous forms
are 'January 1, 5641' and '1 Jan 5641'; the year is the last
number, and the month name may be abbreviated to its first three
letters.  1 Jan 0001 is held to be the traditional date for the
religious initiation of a significant religious figure on Terra.
It is generally accepted that Imperial year 1120 corresponds to
Terran/Solomani ano 5641, but, as with the Vilani calendar, no
exact date match is given.

Less is known of the Zhodani calendar than of others.  The
Zhodani sol is 27.02 hours in length, but how it is subdivided is
unknown.  The ano is 244.44 sols in length.  The ano is divided
into six named 'seasons', each of 40 sols.  Within a season, sols
are both named and numbered, although the names are not generally
used.  There are also four sols that are not part of any season,
and are individually named.  Each group of three anos is called
an 'olympiad'; the third ano of each olympiad has an intercalary
sol added, and the third ano of each third olympiad has an
additional intercalary sol added.  The translated names of the
seasons and extraseasonal sols, in order from the beginning of
the ano, are Sunbright (sol), Rain, Moon Day (sol), Heat,
Sunflight (sol), Waning, Harvest, Thanksgiving (sol), Chill,
Olympiad Day (intercalary sol), Double Olympiad day (second
intercalary sol), Thaw.  Dates are generally written '3471.1 Rain
1'; the number before the point is the olympiad number, the
number following the point is the year number within the
olympiad, the name of the season or extraseasonal sol follows,
then, at the end, the number of the sol within the season
(omitted following an extraseasonal sol).  It is known that
3471.1 Sunbright corresponds to Imperial date 289-1112.  1.1
Sunbright is simply the date that the olympiad system of dating
was instituted.

The Aslan calendar is based on a sol of 36 hours and an ano of
212.2 sols.  The sol is divided into 16 parts, each of which is
further divided into 8 parts, each of which is further divided
into 64 parts, each of which is divided into 8 parts.  The ano
adds an intercalary sol every fifth ano.  Each sol is named, but
for simplicity in dealing with extra-Hierate operations, number
the sols from 1 at the start of each ano.  No standard format for
writing dates is known; it is generally accepted to write the
dates following the Imperial format, but with the letter 'A' or
the word 'Aslan' following.  001-0001A is held to be the date on
which the Aslan Council of Twenty-Nine convened for the first
time.  Aslan ano 3644 is held to correspond to Imperial year
1111, but no exact date correspondence is given.

The K'kree sol is 28.6 hours long, with 368 sols in an ano.  The
sol is divided into four 'watches' or ten parts, each of which is
further divided into tenths, hundredths, and thousandths.  The
ano is divided into ten parts of 37 sols each; the fourth part
contains only 35 sols.  Part-anos are numbered from 1.  Sols are
numbered within a part starting with 1.  No exact match of
Imperial and K'kree dates is given; it is generally held that
K'kree ano 7713 corresponds to Imperial year 1110.  The K'kree
have not objected to the common Imperial practice of writing the
date as '7713.5 23'; the number of the ano is placed before the
point, the specific tenth-part of the ano is placed after, and
then the number of the sol within the part is given.  Note that
as tenth-parts of the ano are numbered from 1, 7713.1 1 is _not_
the same as 7713.10 1.

The Hive Federation calendar is based on a 30 hour sol,
subdivided into 6 intervals.  There are 143 sols in an ano,
numbered from 1.  Dates are written '1401/001' with the ano
number before a slash and the sol number after.  0001/001 is the
date of the selection of Glea as the administrative center of the
Hive Federation.  Hiver ano 1401 corresponds to Imperial year
1111, with no exact date match given.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:20:24
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Penguins Attack!

At 02:36 PM 12/31/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I think laser-guided penguin bombs show promise...
>
>Cover an airstrip with these, and it can make it bloody well difficult to
>take off and attack.

Which of course brings to mind the games RAF pilots played with penguins in
the Falklands and South Georgia.
- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:30:07 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Terran Expansion prior to 1st IW

'Evening, Friends,

I have a challenging question for anyone who's willing to take up the 
gauntlet.  This question centers around the expansion of Terrans 
prior to the 1st IW, and requires extensive knowledge of the 
capacities of both the Terrans and Vilani during this time period.  
(Heck, I'd even welcome some wild-haired guesses, so long as they're 
backed by some logical thought and support.)  If you feel up to the 
challenge, here goes:

What worlds within the Solomani Rim were surveyed by the Terrans 
between 2096AD and 2110AD, before the 1st IW broke out?  Which worlds
did they colonize?

Mick Bailey's Unbroken Pride article indicates that the 1st IW was 
primarily fought over Fenris and Barnard.  That same article 
indicates that the worlds of neighboring Dingir subsector were the 
battlefields for the 2nd through the 7th IW, while Arcturus wasn't 
settled until well into the Rule of Man.  From the sounds of it, 
Terrans stayed within their subsector and pushed somewhat spinward, 
before kicking Vilani bu...uh, er, uh, resoundly defeating the Vilani 
coreward and pushing into Ziru Sirka territory.

I assume that the Unbroken Pride information is based off of the old 
Solomani Rim supplement.  Does anyone have any other information to 
offer?

For a bonus question, what worlds did the Vilani explore/colonize
during this time period as well?  (Please restrict all references to
within the Solomani Rim sector.)

Thanks in advance for whatever assistance can be extended.  I and my 
gamers appreciate it.

In Gratitude,
Jason,  who keeps wondering why he ofttimes mistypes "Vilani" as 
"Villain".
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 09:46:27 +1100
From: David Jaques-Watson <davidjw@pcug.org.au>
Subject: Happy 1999!

Dear Folks -

Well, it's not 11.55pm here (more like 9.45 on 1/1/99), but: Happy New Year!

Here's hoping for a Traveller Resurgence this year!!!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 15:55:42 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

 
> Why can you not lead the target?  I mean if it will work with the mk1
> eyeball & mgs in WWII, then would it not work with supercomputers & rapid
> firing rail guns?
 
You can. You just won't hit much. Look at it from a gameplay
standpoint for a second, as well. You fire a railgun with a muzzle
velocity of 32km/s. In most iterations of traveller starship combat
it will take a few turns for your shot to get to the target hex.
Then you need to figure out how you spread the shots out to cover a
large area. So each shot will need a counter that moves slowly by
ship standards. Once it gets to the target hex, you roll so to-hit
roll that is very easy unless the target is using drives at all,
then it is very hard (unless your gun spits millions of rounds
you'll need to bracket the possible positions the target could be in
in the sensor lag (1s) plus the flight time---say 2.5hours, that's
9001seconds to ensure a hit). it's possible, just not all that
playable.

> Plus by your own admission, then you might as well not arm your
> starships... As any weapon you put on it, will not be able to hit its
> target no matter what you do... If your target is say 1 ls out (c. 300,000
> km) then 3 second delay in targeting... One second to get there, one

Only the return and laser pulse matter in that calculation, so the
delay is 2s, not 3. The rationale is that (for evading targets) you
shoot *many* shots into the possible volume the target could be in
after 2s of maneuver, and only a few actually hit (if any). If the
target is not accelerating, it will get hit easily, even with a rain
gun.

> This is not including time to bring the laser on target, etc. And missiles
> now become almost useless, as they would travel much slower than a slug
> from a rail gun... By the time a missle gets close enough to its target,
> the target is gone... So what is the use of weapons systems then?
 
Huh? Missiles are guided towards the general area of the target
(easy to do), then once they are close enough to actually attack,
the lag is pretty small. And a 12g12 missile caould be going very
much faster than most railguns (I missed the ravioli stuff, what was
the quoted velocity? More than 200km/s (12gs worth of burn)?

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:18:03 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

At 01:03 pm 12/31/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>> Subject: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli
Gun)
>
><Snip everything>
>
>Why can you not lead the target?  I mean if it will work with the
mk1
>eyeball & mgs in WWII, then would it not work with supercomputers &
rapid
>firing rail guns?

	It didn't always work with the mk1 eyeball and MGs in WWII, that's
why it was so hard to shoot down planes, even kamikazes. And leading
the target assumes the target will continue on the same course and
speed.

>Plus by your own admission, then you might as well not arm your
>starships...  As any weapon you put on it, will not be able to hit
its
>target no matter what you do...  If your target is say 1 ls out (c.
300,000

	Not true. The further out it gets, the more lightspeed lag works in
favor of the defender. Closer in, you just physically cannot move out
of the way of a laser beam. Missiles, although they can maneuver, are
much easier to dodge, and become almost trivially simple to shoot
down with lightspeed weapons when they get close. Railgun projectiles
are essentially ballistic, and only a blind man or a crippled ship
couldn't avoid one.

>km) then 3 second delay in targeting...  One second to get there,
one
>second for the pulse to return, & one second for the beam laser to
hit... 

	There's some fairly detailed statistics on my site. First, it's not
three seconds, it's two. You don't care about how long it took the
radar pulse to get to the target, only how long it takes the pulse to
return to you and your laser beam to return. Justification: The pulse
is carrying the target location *at the time it left the target*.
Note this also applies to passive sensors--the signal you receive
carries information as of the time it left the target.

	Case 1 (Best Case): The ship is ballistic (does not maneuver). You
can simply project exactly where the ship is going to be when your
shot hits, within limits based on sensor accuracy, etc. Bullseye out
as far as you can see.

	Case 2 (Worst Case): The target initiates a maximum G maneuver, at
right angles to the line of sight, an infinitesimal moment AFTER the
sensor signal you'll fire on leaves the target. This provides the
target the maximum time to move itself AWAY from its "ballistic"
point. If you still aim at the "ballistic" point, the target MUST
move itself at least half a ship's length away from that point or
it'll still get hit. A slightly better strategy for the attacker
assumes you've been observing the target (or in combat long enough)
to know what its maximum acceleration is. You can then draw a
projected circle around the ballistic point and know the target MUST
be somewhere in that circle. It's not possible for it to get any
further*. You then randomly fire shots within that circle. Your
chances of hitting range from 94% for a 1G target at 30,000km, 73%
for a 6G target at 30,000km, to 7% for a 1G target at 300,000km and
0% for a 6G target at that range. This assumes the target is a 100Td
sphere. *Unless you're wrong about the maximum acceleration ... but
there is STILL an upper limit, and being wrong about it only hurts
the attacker once--as soon as the target displays greater
acceleration, you know...

	Note this "worst case" also is not representative of most cases.

	(a) The target cannot instantaneously change its direction of
thrust; it takes time to slew around. This reduces the possible area
in which it can be found

	(b) With good sensors, you should be able to resolve the target.
This'll tell you many things.
		1. You'll have a good idea what kind of ship it is, and hence what
its maximum slew rate and acceleration are.
		2. You'll know which way it was pointing. Now you know exactly how
far he can slew and accelerate. You've just cut down the target
circle considerably.
		3. You may or may not be able to get an approximation of how much
power his plants are producing, based on radiator output. This'll
help again with the max accel guess.

	(c) The target may not know exactly where you are. Kind of hard to
lay in a right-angle course if you don't know right angle from what.

	(d) If there are more than two attackers, with some separation,
it'll be impossible to lay in a right angle course to all of them.

	Other considerations apply as well, but I haven't thought of all of
them.

, (b) may not know exactly where the threat is to choose a right
angle thrust, and (c) CANNOT move at right angles to the line of
sight from TWO attackers. One will get a better shot.

	With decent sensors, a

Check out the diagrams and stats at
http://www.pcisys.net/Traveller/Admiralty/SpaceCombat/SpaceCombat.html
.
- -- ------------------------------------------------------------ --
   Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj 
   House for sale in Colorado Springs!
   http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1340
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 31 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1341



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Trade Model
RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #1325
Re: CT/MT vs GT skills
Re: Why railguns arent starship weapons
Re: Calendars
Re: Penguins Attack!
Happy Space:1999
Re: CT/MT vs GT Discussion
Re: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time.
Happy New Year 
Re: GURPS Tasks for GT
Re: Discussing the GURPS character Osseskil
Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 10:23:33
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Trade Model

>From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Trade Model
>
>   I've been tinkering with the trade model a little recently. 
>   I decided to adapt the TNE model, and classify speculative trade goods
>as raw materials, processed materials, manufactured goods, information, and
>novelties.

I'd also add a 'quality table'.

>   I added a table which gives the chances of a cargo being one of these
>types, depending on the world's trade class and influenced by the size of
>the cargo. (Major cargoes tend to be natural resources; Incidental tend to
>be information or novelties). Another table gives supply/demand modifiers
>to purchase and sale price, also based on the world's trade class.  Types
>of cargo are cheaper to obtain and sells for less where it is already
>abundant; they are more expensive to obtain and sell for more where they
>are scarce.  
>   The base purchase price of all cargoes except raw materials is computed
>as with the normal rules.

No. The absolutely biggest beef I have with the vanilla trade system is
that the prices of goods in the trade system does not fit with the prices
of goods everywhere else.

Let us take, for example, Colt .45 pistols and ammunition built under FFS2.
A rugged pistol - a useful good on a low-tech world, an instant antique on
a high tech world.

Now, according to FFS2, Colt 4.5 ammo costs 0.38 Cr per round, and a round
is 35 mm x 11 mm, so you should be able to fit 200 000 in a 1m3 box.

Thus, 10 m3 of .45 ammo should cost KCr 760 and contain 2 million rounds.

The pistols themselves cost Cr 253 including magazine, and I will assume
they are 30cm long, 20cm high and 10cm wide, including some packing. Thus,
1500 will fit in a 1m3 box, costing KCr 380.

Therefore, 1 dton of light firearms (1500 colt .45s and 2 million rounds)
should cost about KCr 1140.

Other goods have similar costs - TL10 1 MJ EPG cartridges (used in plasma
guns) cost Cr 500 and mass 5 kg each, so 10 000 kg of them cost a megacredit.

TL8 10 MW fission plants take up 10 m3 and cost a megacredit.

TL9 Sens 13 passive infrared scanners take up 8m3 and cost MCr 8.

Now, if you take goods up to a megacredit a dton, then long-distance trade
becomes a lot more viable - it is worth taking a shipment across 2 subsectors.

Merchants now find that cash position becomes more important - you dont
just need the next montly payment, you need ready access to a *large*
amount of cash to act as a float for cargo purchases.

If you are shipping goods across a subsector, it might be a while before
that cargo turns into liquid cash, too. Financing becomes even more
critical - your credit rating becomes like gold when you need an ability to
borrow tens of megacredits for several months.

<stuff deleted>

>Under the vanilla rules, a lot of two-way trade links are money losers,
>since the expected profit on goods carried one way is more than offset by
>the expected loss going the other direction. High brokerage skill only
>partly compensates. 

It isnt that they are money losers that gets me - it's the massive trade
deficits being run by the lo-tech worlds that lead me to think that they
system outlined is unsustainable.

The trade system should be built so that there are no 'sure win' routes,
because if any idiot can make money shipping stuff from A to B, then every
idiot will be doing that, and prices at each end will react.

>Under this system, a trader who knows to carry food or forestry products
>from a low TL Ag world to the neighboring high TL In HiPop world and
>tractors and radios back has a chance at economic survival.
>
>I just recently began working with this system and don't have extensive
>experience with either it or the "vanilla" one. I can post the details if
>anyone would like to try this system out and comment on it.

I'd like to see the details.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 10:29:21 +1100
From: David Jaques-Watson <davidjw@pcug.org.au>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1998 #1325

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE3571.A43B9F60
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Folks -

Thomas Vickers asked:
>Subject: Long Night
>Is there a web page on this subject or can the list fill me in?

Sorry, Thomas, there is not much available _at all_ on this topic. While =
writing up the Library Data onto my site, I noticed that there is NO =
entry for the Long Night", per se. There are only slant-wise references. =
For example, there are entries on "Ramscoop Jumpship" (the _Exatar_ was =
built by the Interstellar Confederacy during the LN), "Second Imperium" =
(which includes a brief mention), "Solomani History" (which includes a =
paragraph on the LN), and "Twilight" (which is not yet up on my site).

The _Milieu 0_ book talks more about the LN and it's timeline than any =
other reference I know. No of these entries are up on my Lib Data site =
*yet*.

Other sources should include the various "integrated timelines" - try =
looking through my Jump Points page for these.

Here is a possible *player* explanation for the lack of data - the =
events of the Long Night were either so ugly (and therefore censored) or =
so lost in obscurity (no records survived, etc), that it is effectively =
a "black hole" in history. Hey - I can feel a plot hook coming on!! =
Maybe your PC's can be sent on an archeological mission to discover/dig =
up some data on the LN in a particular region.

Good luck!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
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IAAAAAADAA00/TcAADIi

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE3571.A43B9F60--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 17:30:22 -0600
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com>
Subject: Re: CT/MT vs GT skills

My gaming group and I also found that in order to play an Engineer 
type (and still be able to interact with the rest of the world) you either 
needed to be a 300 pt character or have all kinds of IQ enhancing 
advantages.  And as we are all Engineers or Programmers, we 
could come up with some really esoteric fields that a character had 
to specialize in. :)

Although GURPS can be very realistic when it comes to engineering 
and tech skills (they can be broke down 500 different ways) it didn't 
make sense for playability.  If you have any doubts, look up Math on 
Amazon.com and then then look up Engineering.  There are by far 
MANY more Math related fields than there are engineering.  And 
Math is only one skill in GURPS.

So we changed the rules...

(The HR stands for Home Rule).

HR Engineering/Tp/TL

This is the ability to design and build complex machinery.  Time 
required for each attempt is up to the GM.  See the Technician for 
the repair skill.

Electrical - M/VH
Mechanical - M/VH
Civil - M/VH
Chemical - M/VH
BioMedical - M/VH
Nuclear - M/VH

HR Technician/Tp/TL

This is the repair component of the Home Rule Technical Skill Set.  
See the engineering skill for design information.

Electronics - MH
Mechanics - MH
Photonics - MH
Construction - MH
Armory - MH
Starshipbuilding - MH


HR Operations/Tp/TL

This skill allows use of all gear within a known specialty. For normal, 
everyday use of equipment, no skill roll is required. Rolls should be 
required in emergency situations, or for "abnormal" use of 
equipment, or for use of complex gear by the unskilled.  

Examples: Someone is jamming your radio transmission. Roll a 
Contest of Skills in Operation (Communications) - (radio vs. jammer) 
- - to see whether or not you can get a clear signal out.

You're trying to pick up a speedy target on radar. Make your 
Operation (Sensors) roll. The GM might also assess (for instance) a 
penalty due to the target's ECM gear.

A specialty must be chosen. 

Computers - MH
Sensors/EW - MH
Drives - MH
Comms - MH
Security - MH
Medical - MH

By increasing the cost of the skill, the skill level goes down but the 
character can manipulate a broader range of equipment.  There are 
also some defaults and prereqs that we have come up with that 
have been play-tested and they seem work.  And now I (the GM) 
don't have to come up with a different skill category everytime the 
player wants to do something a little different.

Example - to build an escalator, the character would need:
Engineer/Mechanical and Engineer/Electrical to design it.
Technician/Mechanical and Technician/Electronics to build it.
Two success rolls: the average of his two Engineering skills and the 
average of his two Technician skills.  Or he could use the defaults 
off his Engineering skills to build it.  Entirely up to the player.

I guess in a nutshell, this much simplified system substantially 
reduces the number a skills a Techie Character needs to do his job 
and still lets him do some things that outside his chosen specialty 
(like wear a Vacc Suit).







- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)

- - Encrypt your messages!
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!

- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!

- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)

- - Fidelitas Supernus Totus, Absque Honor

- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.

Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
     http://www.felixcafe.com/

- - - -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 10:54:40
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Why railguns arent starship weapons

>From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
>Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

>, (b) may not know exactly where the threat is to choose a right
>angle thrust, and (c) CANNOT move at right angles to the line of
>sight from TWO attackers. One will get a better shot.
>
>	With decent sensors, a
>
>Check out the diagrams and stats at
>http://www.pcisys.net/Traveller/Admiralty/SpaceCombat/SpaceCombat.html

The other major consideration is everybody's favorite point-attack weapon,
the meson gun.

Now, Meson Guns attack a point, not a line, as is true with beam weapons
like lasers and PAWs. Thus, you get 3 dimensions to dodge in, not two.

Normally, this would make meson guns pretty damn ineffective at light
second ranges, but the optimal maneuver path for a meson gun is non-optimal
for defending against beam weapons.

Thus, if you are using a mixture of beam and meson weapons, the defender
has the choice between defending against meson guns by maneuvering in three
dimensions (but making themsleves more vulnerable to beams) or maneuvering
in two dimensions at right angles to the attacker, and thus removing the
long-range penalty for meson guns.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:56:29 -0700
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Calendars

>Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 21:09:04 GMT
>From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
>Subject: On Calendars
>

>The Solomani dating system is a close match in terms of sol and
>ano lengths to the Imperial and Sylean systems....
>There is a complex rule that adds an extra
>(intercalary) sol to the calendar in 97 out of every 400 anos.

Which has the amusing effect of making the two calendars out of sync:
001-1120 falls on something like 28 April, AD 5640 -- unless you believe
that the year 0 Imperial corresponds to AD 4518 instead of AD 4521, which
is another discussion.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 19:03:26 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Penguins Attack!

What did the pilots do?

I'm not advocating real violence towards penguins, as I have a particular
fondness for them vs. mosquitoes(and "Opus" is one of my favorite cartoon
characters).

- --Clif

>>Cover an airstrip with these [penguins], and it can make it bloody well
difficult to
>>take off and attack.
>
>Which of course brings to mind the games RAF pilots played with penguins in
>the Falklands and South Georgia.
>--
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 19:10:32 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Happy Space:1999

Before most of you toast the new year, take some time out to get nostalgic
over the Sci-Fi series with the vision...

http://www.cybrary1999.com/

After that, you might want to write the Horror Channel which calls itself a
Sci-Fi channel by dropping them an email asking for more "Space:1999 in
'99".

program@www.scifi.com

Or discuss the special effects, the science, or the fiction of Space:1999 by
subscribing to:

space1999-request@buffnet4.buffnet.net

Happy Space:1999!
Clif

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:31:46 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: CT/MT vs GT Discussion

Wed, 30 Dec 98 21:57:53 -0600, "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
>>A low level realistic campaign will consider 18 quite impressive
>>while a high level cinematic one will have skills over 20...
>
><whistle>
>
>Looking at the 3d6 odds, I would think that a 14 or 15 would be
>impressive.  You must modify difficulties a good bit more than I
>would have thought.

That is mostly where "it depends" comes in.  In a very cinematic
campaign a skill level of 22 would let you respond to the GM
telling you that it is dark (say a -2 to hit), you are hurt
(say a -4 to hit), and your foe has cover (enough to get a -4
to hit), with "I shoot the bastard!".

Or if you are trying to land a ship in middle of rubble and
the GM tells you "that's a -4 to land", you feel a lot better
if you have Piloting at an 18.

>Ok, 12 gives an unmodified 74% chance of success.  I'd agree that
>that is competent.

Most people figure that.  I means you succeed at most "normal"
tasks most of the time.
>
>>I've always equated this to Skill-1.
>
>Ah, I see!  I can see that.

>So, in a comparison between GURPS and CT, do you see the progression
>of skill levels for unmodified tasks resembling something like
>this...
>
>          3d6           2d6
>         GURPS         Trav
> Default   6    9%       3    8%
>          10   50%
>          11   63%       0   58%
>          12   74%       1   72%
>          13   84%       2   83%
>          14   91%       3   92%
>          15   95%
>          16   98%       4   97%
>          17   99%
>          18  100%       5  100%

This would work (I don't know where you came up with the
%ages for "2d6").  The one in the book works too.  There
is a bit of judgement here....

>>For a ship you definately need Mechanic (Jump Drive), Mechanic
>>(Power Plant) and Mechanic (Manuever Drive).  I've seen  Engineering
>>(Vehciles) which I think is the skill to fix the misc parts of the
>>ship (airlocks, hull breaches, etc.) But as a GM I've been thinking
>>of letting players use any mechanic skill for these kinds of routine
>>things.

>The 3 Mechanics specializations make sense, as would Gravitics and
>Electronics.  Hum, my reading of the GURPS Engineering skill was
>that it was concerned with the design of equipment rather than
>repair/maintenance, perhaps a Mechanic (spaceship systems) is
>needed for the general things.

I actually used Engineering in my GURPS Traveller
(before the book came out) at least partially because I had the
feeling that the Engineers I saw portrayed could build what they
were working on (though I guess that designing would be another
matter) and I wanted it to be something that you had to put
an effort into being good at (Engineering is Mental Hard).
I had those three specializations and a general "space ship"
one for all the other misc things you might fix on a ship.

However, as you point out, mechanic makes sense.  I don't know
why they started using "Engineer (Vehicles)" in the templates.
It may have been an attempt to sweep up all the other things
you mights need to fix (though I don't know why they didn't
make it "Mechanic").  Sean Punch (Dr. Kromm) wrote them
so maybe you could ask him on the GURPS mailing list.

Once you get into sensors, gravitics, life support etc. the
list can get sort of long.  You can either let the ships engineer
fix misc things on his ship that need fixing (with the three
specialties or with Engineer (Vehichles) (maybe it is
an Engineering skill because it covers a lot of things
that would be in another specialization).  The idea is
that you can learn to fix the artificial grav plates
without knowing how to fix everything on a grav vehcile.
Or you can simply have the Player rely on the fact that
the Mechanic and Electronics skills default to each other
(I pretty sure they do, I don't have GURPS in front of
me).  You can then use them to fix anything at a -4 of
of your best one.

>In Traveller we have Trader and Broker, two distinct skills with
>different effects and uses.  In GURPS, both seem to be subsumed by
>Merchant.  I suppose I could use specializations here just like with
>Mechanic Merchant (trade), Merchant (brokerage), etc.

You would normally just use Merchant.  If you think the makes
Merchant too broad, you can require specializations or just
make new skills.  Now, since Broker is a prominent skill in
Traveller, GT made it a seperate skill from Merchant (I don't
remember a Trader skill).

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:37:04 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time.

On Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:04:00 -0500, Roger Barr (rbarr@jax.openware.com)
wrote:

>Derrick,
>As a fan of science, I applaud your sense of detail in the orbital positions
>problem, but as a referee, this could have been handled much easier.
>Make sure that the players follow your plot line in the game, as you have
>detailed it out.
>If the SDB needs to catch them in order to make sure they have a few scars
>on the old hull, then let it get close enough to do a little damage. If not,
>then let the players BARELY escape.

You've just provided a textbook example of the difference between the 
Dramatist (you) and Simulationist (Derrick) styles of gaming.  The third
recognized style, the Gamist, would make the decision based on whether
the PCs had faced a challenge lately.

One possible motivation for Derrick wanting to dice it all out is that,
whatever happened, his players might see it as more "fair" and not the
result of arbitrary decision(s) by the GM/storyteller.

For more information on this model of gaming styles, see the newsgroup
rec.gaming.advocacy.

- --------------
Kelly St.Clair
kellys@efn.org

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 00:47:00 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Happy New Year 

Happy New Year to all.

Cheers.

And thanks for the fun ;-)

obtrav: There isn't one really. Mea Culpa.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:57:23 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS Tasks for GT

Wed, 30 Dec 98 23:07:38 -0600, "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
>In most versions of Traveller, all if you extend CT with the DGP
>task system, we have a more formal system for grouping difficulties
>into named "Task Difficulty Levels."  This is one area where I think
>Traveller is *far* superior to GURPS.

They are handy until you have a feel for what a modifiers you
want in a different situation.  Then it doesn't make so
much difference.

>>-2 tricky
>>-4 hard/difficult
>>-6 very hard
>>-8 formidible
>>-10 almost impossible

>First, I see only negative modifers here.  Are you saying that, for
>you, a "Routine..if you know that skill you ought to be able to do
>that" tasks roll at unmodifed skill levels?

I just wing postivie modifiers (my players never complain about
getting a +2 :-) so I didn't formalize it.  (Note: in GURPS
"routine" has normally been used to describe things that you
don't need to roll for, though that is not a formal defination).

>Second, does a 2 point spread between difficulties work well?  I've
>been working with 2 and 3, 2 is a much cleaner mechanic, but 3 seems
>to give better distributions of probablities.

I've seen 3 point ones to (I even made up some).  This is what
I like to use.  To me "Almost Impossible" is nearly the same
as saying "you need a critical to succeed" so I make that a
- -10.  Then 2 points steps filled in better.

>  Anyway, let me put
>out two scales that use names familar to most fellow-Travellers...
>
>Steps by 2
>
>  +4 Simple         If you have any skill you should succeed.
>  +2 Routine        Dabblers will succeed most of the time.
>   0 Normal         Professionals will succeed most of the time.
>  -2 Difficult      This is where most hard tasks fall.
>  -4 Formidable     Most will fail, most of the time.
>  -6 Staggering     Even the best fail almost all the time.
>  -8 Hopeless       Not impossible, but next to it!

This is a bit more generous than I would go with.  Someone
with a skill of 16 (very good, but not outlandish) would
suceed at a "Hopeless" task 25% of the time.  To low for
me.  Though in a more cinematic campaign (where protagonists
are suppose to do "impossible" things all the time) it might
be fine.  [A lot of this is a GM getting things tuned for
his style of play.]

>  +6 Simple         If you have any skill you should succeed.
>  +3 Routine        Dabblers will succeed most of the time.
>   0 Normal         Professionals will succeed most of the time.
>  -3 Difficult      This is where most hard tasks fall.
>  -6 Formidable     Most will fail, most of the time.
>  -9 Staggering     Even the best fail almost all the time.
> -12 Hopeless       Not impossible, but next to it!

Well, for me it depends on what you mean by (for example)
"Staggering".  I guess this works beter for my approach
since if something was "hopless" it means to me that even
a crit may not do it.  Something that is "Staggering" says
to me that you do need a crit.  (which, again, I call a -10
since the baseline is that if you make a roll by 10 you may
have critted).

In my conversion article I was even tougher :-)
Easy         +2
Routine       0
Difficult    -4
Formidible   -8
Impossible  -12

>...this looks *too* hard, but maybe not, if GURPS characters are
>going to routinely have lots of skills up into the at 14 to 18
>range.

Also remember, it depends on how the words are applied.  If
a GM thinks that everything that is harder than normal
is "Staggering" things will be a lot different than if
he apply the "Difficult" modifier all the time.

I suppose one could try and get more objective an try
and compare the task labels for various specific exmamples
in MT to the modifiers in GURPS Basic.  I don't know if
that would get you anywhere.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 17:05:25 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Discussing the GURPS character Osseskil

Wed, 30 Dec 98 23:20:30 -0600, "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>

>Although, a Droyne Sport is a little "out there" for an example,
>let's look at him...um, it.  ;->

Well, its the only character I've actually _played_ (when
I GM my players insist on making up their characters  :-)

>  1.  That's a whole lotta skills you've got there!  At 36, it's
>      about 20 more than most Traveller characters.  Is this unusual
>      for a GURPS character?

He does have a lot of skills.  (Because of the Jack of all
Trades idea and a sport is suppose to be able to do a little
of everything).

>  2.  I also didn't see any skills above 15, and only a few there.
>      Most were 11 or 12.  That seems to mean he is *far* from
>      guaranteed success on most tasks, even the normalish ones.

Right.  He can do a lot of things but his weakness is he can't
do them very well.  Whenever something needed doing, my character
was alway offering that he could do it (notice the Overconfidence).
The other PCs didn't generaly take him up on the offer (esp
when it came to flying their starships, etc.)  I'm not sure why
(since he had actually always done OK in the thing they had let
him done.  Maybe they were psychic sensing that he wasn't as
good as he thought he was :-

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 17:14:45 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: CT/MT style character creation in GT.

Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:38:09 +0000, Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>>  Another point is, that a person with engineer/jump drive-18 (for
>>example) would probably have committed most of his life to training in
>>that single field. With IQ 12 (a bright person) you would need 16 points
>>for this. With 400 hrs of practical work required for 1 skill pt, this

>That time is halved with a teacher.

Note, I never bought into the idea of using the training rules
to decide what skill levels correspond to a number of years
in a profession (their are posts all time on this on the GURPS
mailing list).  My take has always been that the rules on
training are to provide a reasonable set of rules for letting
the players use time to train their charcters, but extending
them to these sorts of exercises is pushing that too far.


______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1341
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, December 31 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 1342



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Moderated list proposal
WBH Official Errata/Modifications 
Re: Flying a grav vehicle
Fuel Cells
Why you should need more than Merchant for G:T Merchants
DSR (Was Re: Traveller World Building)
Re: Calendars
Test #2
Re: Happy Space:1999
Re: Happy Space:1999
Emperor's Vehicles
Re: Ravioli Gun
Re: Terran Expansion prior to 1st IW
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
Re: CT/MT vs GT skills
Re: CT/MT vs GT skills
Re: Terran Expansion prior to 1st IW

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 21:16:39 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Moderated list proposal

At 03:29 PM 30/12/98 +0800, you wrote:
>I hate to say this but I suggest that this list become a moderated list,
>possible like Flight sim forum at delphi or similar.  I am tired of seeing
>people carrying on like two bob watches(Cheap watches with a dingle)
>carrying on petty disagreements with increasing vehemence.
>
>Is this something we can do?
>
>And sod free speach.  I am not on the TML for that.
>
>Colin
>

        Hi, Colin!
        I hate to agree with you, but I agree with you.  I currently deleted
one message in four because it unconstructive squabling....  it's more like
one in two when Rob Prior isn't leaning on the "CHURN" key of his ship
design program (Hi Rob!  Great designs!).
        
        Regards,
        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:17:45 -0600
From: David Smart <warlock@imagin.net>
Subject: WBH Official Errata/Modifications 

Below is some errata/clarifications for WBH found in DGP's
Travellers' Digest #10. I'm not sure any reprints actually
contain these items which are *official* modifications
to WBH, Scouts, and any other publication based on WBH's
tables.


(An additional row has been added to Table 6.1 to allow the
generation of worlds with a surface gravity in excess of 2Gs.)

   Table 6.1
General World Type
 (non-Gas Giant)

 Die
 Roll   World Type
- -------------------
  1-    Heavy Core   <---NEW
 2-10   Molten Core
11-14   Rocky Body
  15+   Icy Body

Modifiers:
If size 4-, DM+1
If size 6+, DM-2

If atm 0-3, DM+1
if atm 6+, DM-2

When using "Scout" booklet:
If outer zone, DM+6


(This next section expands Table 6.2 by adding the following
"Heavy Core" column to the left of the "Molten Core" column.)

Table 6.2
  Die   --World Type--
Roll(3d)  Heavy Core
    3        1.10
    4        1.15
    5        1.20
    6        1.25
    7        1.30
    8        1.35
    9        1.40
   10        1.45
   11        1.50
   12        1.55
   13        1.60
   14        1.70
   15        1.80
   16        1.90
   17        2.00
   18        2.25

Heavy Core:  World has a molten core of heavy metals surrounded
by a cooler crust.





(This last section adds "Heavy Core"-related info to the three
Resourses table. The following "Density" columns should be
added to the left of the "Molten Core" column in their respective
tables.)


Table 35: Natural Resources

                 ---DENSITY---
RESOURCE       | Hvy Core
- ---------------|-----------
Agricultural   |    +3
- ---------------|-----------
Ores           |    +8
- ---------------|-----------
Radioactives   |    +7
- ---------------|-----------
Gems & Crystals|    +6
- ---------------|-----------
Petrochemicals |    +2
- ---------------------------


Table 36: Processed Resources

                 ---DENSITY---
RESOURCE       | Hvy Core
- ---------------|-----------
Agricultural   |    +4
- ---------------|-----------
Alloys         |    +8
- ---------------|-----------
Agroproducts   |    +3
- ---------------------------



Table 37: Manufactured Resources

                 ---DENSITY---
RESOURCE        | Hvy Core
- ----------------|-----------
Weapons         |    +3
- ----------------|-----------
Mechanical Parts|    +3
- ----------------|-----------
Heavy Equipment |    +3
- ----------------|-----------
Electonics      |    +1
- ----------------|-----------
Gravitics       |    +5
- ----------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 21:37:31 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Flying a grav vehicle

At 11:01 AM 30/12/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca> wrote:
>
>>        The CF-18 has a similar concept;  if the pilot goes out cold (ie: no
>>joystick input) and altitude dips below 500, the computer takes over and
>>hauls for 10000 and flies figure-8s until the pilot takes control again.
>
>Or the fuel runs out... :-(
>
>Dom
>

        In a combat zone, you are more liable to have someone put a
IR-Seeker up your tail-pile first, but yeah, that's a point.  However, the
idea being is that every minute you can give the pilot to live is a minute
that he/she/it can haul thier ass out of the fire. =)
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:46:23 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Fuel Cells

Hey,
    don't these scientists know that fuel cells can't be made this small? It says
so in FFS1, page 64 that the minimum volume for a fuel cell is .01 cubic meters.
These guys need to read up a little!

See the article that triggered this passionate outburst at:
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2180865,00.html

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 12:46:03
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Why you should need more than Merchant for G:T Merchants

IQ 12 for 20 points.

20 points for Merchant(21) ... Admin defaults to Merchant-3 (18 - toss in
another 2 points to buy it to 19), Accounting defaults to Merchant-5 (16,
add 2 points to take it to 17), Economics defaults to Merchant-6 (15, add 2
points for 16). 

46 points so far, and we have 4 skills at Expert or better.

Add 12 points in Diplomacy at 16, a token 2 points in Handgun-13, and 5
points in miscellaneous skills.

Add a 100 point, available 15- Bodyguard-type Ally (30 points) <real
minimaxers buy a 75 point Lawyer as a 'zero cost dependant' as well>.

Add Very Wealthy (30 points), and get Status-1 for free (if the GM allows
Temp Wealth, go for Temp Filthy Rich and pay for the Status).

5 quirks and 20 points of disads (Combat Paralysis and a 5 point Enemy
sounds good ... a 5 point delusion 'OK in combat' sounds better) rounds it
out to 100 points.

Now, this is a pretty damn gross Economics Monster. The key is the series
of skills that default to 'Merchant', and that each 2 point level of
Merchant buys all the defaults up by one (with the GT p125 conversion,
thats a skill set of Admin-6, Broker/Trader 7, Liaison-4, Hangun-2 and
Economics-4 and Accounting-4 which arent in Trav, plus a probable UPP of
777969). We spend actual points to boost the defaults to avoid those nasty
situations where defaults dont count.

If you drop the bodyguard down to 12-, then you can go to Filthy Rich.

Now, I hear the peanut gallery comment that she doesnt own a ship. So what
? Rent one, or rent a stateroom and the cargo space you need. Alternativly,
find some Detatched Duty Scout and go into the Small Package business until
you can scrape up a downpayment on a real ship ... 

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:08:33 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: DSR (Was Re: Traveller World Building)

At 09:54 AM 30/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Just think of this as the biological equivalent of Bruce's Definative
>Sensor Rules.
>
        Speaking of which, where can I find a copy of these?
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 02:49:30 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Calendars

On Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:16:22 -0500, Christopher Thrash
<thrash@io.com> wrote:

>>From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)

>>The Solomani dating system is a close match in terms of sol and
>>ano lengths to the Imperial and Sylean systems....
>>There is a complex rule that adds an extra
>>(intercalary) sol to the calendar in 97 out of every 400 anos.

>Which has the amusing effect of making the two calendars out of sync:
>001-1120 falls on something like 28 April, AD 5640 -- unless you believe
>that the year 0 Imperial corresponds to AD 4518 instead of AD 4521, which
>is another discussion.

True - but does it really matter whether or not the Solomani and
Imperial calendars are in synch?  Remember, local calendars are
going to be tied to phenomena with strictly local significance,
whereas the Imperial calendar serves the entire Imperium for
Imperial matters.  Even if it does show an untoward level of
Solomani influence.

Some interesting reading on the subject of calendars can be found
in the Calendar FAQ (which can be found in the usual places for
Usenet FAQs) - it discusses a _lot_ of different calendars, with
some information as to their derivations and how they work.  Even
though virtually the entire world currently uses the Gregorian
calendar for general purposes, some of these other calendars,
such as the Jewish, Islamic, and Chinese calendars, are still
used for religious purposes.  One can reasonably expect the same
thing to happen in the Traveller milieu; local calendars will
continue to be used, more or less depending on the relative
significance of offworld contact in the affairs of the world.

I'd really like to hear from Those Who Know what the exact
corresponding dates and times are, so I can write a correct
calendar program to convert between the various calendars.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:21:50 -0500
From: Kevin Combs <beast013@flash.net>
Subject: Test #2

Stilll trying to get through.

- --
"We should have freed the slaves, then fired on Fort Sumter."
General James Longstreet

Kevin Combs
Columbia, MD

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:47:56 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Happy Space:1999

In a message dated 12/31/98 4:17:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
brclif@digital.net writes:

<< Before most of you toast the new year, take some time out to get nostalgic
 over the Sci-Fi series with the vision...
 
 http://www.cybrary1999.com/
 
 After that, you might want to write the Horror Channel which calls itself a
 Sci-Fi channel by dropping them an email asking for more "Space:1999 in
 '99".
 
 program@www.scifi.com
 
 Or discuss the special effects, the science, or the fiction of Space:1999 by
 subscribing to:
 
 space1999-request@buffnet4.buffnet.net
 
 Happy Space:1999!
 Clif >>

Clif; excellent post. You've repented for the flamefest...:-)

I miss that dopey series a lot... I even had the toys when I was a kid....

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:48:59 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Happy Space:1999

In a message dated 12/31/98 4:17:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
brclif@digital.net writes:

<< After that, you might want to write the Horror Channel which calls itself a
 Sci-Fi channel by dropping them an email asking for more "Space:1999 in
 '99".
 
 program@www.scifi.com
  >>

Another fun series to lobby for is the British UFO series by Gerry Anderson...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:53:32 EST
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Emperor's Vehicles

	I bought The Emperor's Vehicles book for T4 just after I wrapped up my last
Traveller Campaign, and I was a little surprised by the armor values on some
of the vehicles, especially when compared with the Weapon ratings given in
Emperor's Arsenal and Central Supply Catalog.
		Example,  the Collado X2L War Viper Grav AFV (vehicles p. 85)has an armor
rating of 100, yet the Highest damage rating for any weapon is 89, and this is
the Heavy Plasma Cannon-15, which is supposed to be able to do heavy damage to
any known material up to and including atomically compressed matter. (arsenal
p102).   
	An I missing something?  Are the damage ratings in T4 not on the same scale
as the armor ratings in the Vehicles books?   --I also think it was kind of
cheap not to include weapon stats for the weapons mounted on the vehicles,
when those weapons did not appear in other books (plasma autocannon?).  They
could have put the Tech levels for the vehicles on the card as well.

	Dave Nelson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:33:28 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

From: Mark Cook 
> Ooh, ooh, I can just see the headlines now!  "Canned beef products and
> penguins rain bloody death on Tel-Aviv.  Film at eleven!" :^) :^) Do
> you suppose Ditzie will now become a high-profile target for Mossad
> assassins? :^)

Wouldn't canned pork be more dangerous?  How about Spam?

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 14:19:22 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Terran Expansion prior to 1st IW

From: Jason Kemp 
> What worlds within the Solomani Rim were surveyed by the Terrans 
> between 2096AD and 2110AD, before the 1st IW broke out?  Which worlds
> did they colonize?
> 

Surveyed is anyone's guess.  From Imperium, the Terran setup has the
following:

Worlds:  	Sol, Alpha Centauri A, Alpha Centauri B
Outposts:	Junction, Barnard's Star, Proxima Centauri

Plus 3 unplaced outposts - We could take this as outposts that were
planned, but not established before the war.

The Vilani have:

Worlds:		Dingir, Gashidda, Ishkur, and in 3 other "primary systems"
Outposts:	7 Outposts placed so as to connect all friendly systems.

3 Outposts are required to connect the Worlds:  Enki Kalamma,
Shulgiili/Allamu, and Shulgi, so only four are really available to connect
the others.
Primary systems available are:  Epsilon Eridani (Shulimik), Tau Ceti
(Iilike), Nusku, Lagash and Amarku.  Mirabilis needs to be connected
through too long a chain of outposts.

OK, there are worlds that only appear in Imperium here:  Alpha Centauri B,
Proxima Centauri, Allamu and Amarku.  These are all from double or triple
star systems.  Amarku is from the same system as Lagash, Allamu from the
same as Shulgiili.  

Spellings sometimes vary too:  Shulgiili/Shilgiili comes to mind.

Guessing as to surveyed area:  how about the area on the Imperium map, and
maybe a bit deeper into Vilani space - say to Muan Gwi.  The actual detail
of the surveying is another question....

> Mick Bailey's Unbroken Pride article indicates that the 1st IW was 
> primarily fought over Fenris and Barnard.  That same article 
> indicates that the worlds of neighboring Dingir subsector were the 
> battlefields for the 2nd through the 7th IW, while Arcturus wasn't 
> settled until well into the Rule of Man.  From the sounds of it, 
> Terrans stayed within their subsector and pushed somewhat spinward, 
> before kicking Vilani bu...uh, er, uh, resoundly defeating the Vilani 
> coreward and pushing into Ziru Sirka territory.
> 
> I assume that the Unbroken Pride information is based off of the old 
> Solomani Rim supplement.  Does anyone have any other information to 
> offer?
> 

Yes, its from Solomani Rim, and reprinted in the CT Solomani Alien Module.

The strategic choices were shaped by only having J2 ships available.  It
was a whole different universe to one with J3+.

> For a bonus question, what worlds did the Vilani explore/colonize
> during this time period as well?  (Please restrict all references to
> within the Solomani Rim sector.)
> 

See above.  The large scale maps of the Vilani Imperium should give some
kind of idea about settlement, too.

Solomani Rim and Solomani give some more information including that at
least bits of Albadawi and Arcturus subsectors had been settled by later in
the wars.  Settlement of Jardin only "began in earnest only after the
establishment of the Solomani Autonomous Region", and so on.  

Astrographically, there seems to be a bit of a rift through most of the
Solomani Rim, which constrains travel by J2 ships to coreward.  This
suggests that exploration rimward of Terra would have been fairly limited. 
Given that "apparently" the Vilani didn't discover Terra either, a more
conservative exploration limit might be appropriate.

> Thanks in advance for whatever assistance can be extended.  I and my 
> gamers appreciate it.
> 
> In Gratitude,
> Jason,  who keeps wondering why he ofttimes mistypes "Vilani" as 
> "Villain".
> ============================
> Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
> (512)458-7111 ext. 3375
> 
> Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

Hopefully this will be useful.

This is an interesting period.  "One day" I will do something with it as
well.

Cheers,
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:02:52 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

David J. Golden wrote:
> 
> At 01:03 pm 12/31/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >> From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
> >> Subject: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli
> Gun)
> >
> ><Snip everything>
> >
> >Why can you not lead the target?  I mean if it will work with the
> mk1
> >eyeball & mgs in WWII, then would it not work with supercomputers &
> rapid
> >firing rail guns?
> 
>         It didn't always work with the mk1 eyeball and MGs in WWII, that's
> why it was so hard to shoot down planes, even kamikazes. And leading
> the target assumes the target will continue on the same course and
> speed.
> 
<<snip>>
> 
>         Note this "worst case" also is not representative of most cases.
> 
>         (a) The target cannot instantaneously change its direction of
> thrust; it takes time to slew around. This reduces the possible area
> in which it can be found
> 
>         (b) With good sensors, you should be able to resolve the target.
> This'll tell you many things.
>                 1. You'll have a good idea what kind of ship it is, and hence what
> its maximum slew rate and acceleration are.
>                 2. You'll know which way it was pointing. Now you know exactly how
> far he can slew and accelerate. You've just cut down the target
> circle considerably.
>                 3. You may or may not be able to get an approximation of how much
> power his plants are producing, based on radiator output. This'll
> help again with the max accel guess.
> 
>         (c) The target may not know exactly where you are. Kind of hard to
> lay in a right-angle course if you don't know right angle from what.
> 
>         (d) If there are more than two attackers, with some separation,
> it'll be impossible to lay in a right angle course to all of them.
> 
>         Other considerations apply as well, but I haven't thought of all of
> them.
> 
One additional factor is that most warships have multiple weapons per
battery (at least of the light stuff), which enables you to program your
shots with a spread per battery.  Out of ten triple laser turrets in a
common HG battery, you can significantly increase the "basket" of
probability for hitting your target with at least a couple of shots.

> , (b) may not know exactly where the threat is to choose a right
> angle thrust, and (c) CANNOT move at right angles to the line of
> sight from TWO attackers. One will get a better shot.
> 
>         With decent sensors, a
> 
> Check out the diagrams and stats at
> http://www.pcisys.net/Traveller/Admiralty/SpaceCombat/SpaceCombat.html
> .
> -- ------------------------------------------------------------ --
>    Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
>    House for sale in Colorado Springs!
>    http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:20:47 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: CT/MT vs GT skills

At 09:53 31-12-98 -0500, Greg wrote:
>Good list, and good explanations.  I think that computer skills need to
>be in there someplace at least in the Bridge section, or do Sensor Ops
>cover that?  What role does the computer skill play BTW?
>
>Greg

I think that the astrogator probably needs the scientific skill Computer
Programming/TL.  (The ChEng might need it, too.)  Computer Operation/TL is
a professional skill which "is the ability to operate a computer, call up
data, run existing programs, play video games, et cetera."  Sounds to me
like something which would be required for *everyone* in a starship's crew!

Incidentally, GURPS Compendium I lists the professional skill Sailor/TL
(Mental/Average, defaults to IQ-5):

       Professional sailors require a body of additional knowledge
    beyond that required to steer the vessel.  This normally covers
    the basics of map reading and navigation, practical meteorology,
    nautical laws and regulations, and so on.

I would say a similar skill, Spacehand, should be required for all members
of a ship's crew.  This would include things such as basic damage control,
operation of ship's systems (IC, the galley, &c - and could include
Computer Op), the basics of interstellar law as applicable to the type of
ship (military, merchant, free trader), &c.  (What odds that on military
starships, at least, crew members will be required to go through a
qualification programme similar to that which earns a submariner his
dolphins?)

James

- ----------     ----------     ----------     ----------
HEAVEN is where all the police are English, the mechanics
German, the lovers Greek, and the cooks French, and it's
all run by the Swiss.  HELL is where all the police are
German, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, and the
cooks English, and it's all run by the Greeks.
                      (from a t-shirt I bought in Greece)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:08:47 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: CT/MT vs GT skills

At 23:45 30-12-98 -0600, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>Gunnery
>  Gunner (offensive - specialization)
>  Gunner (defensive - specialization)
>  Sensor Ops
>  Comm Ops
>  Ship Security

And don't forget that Gunnery skill just gives the ability to operate the
weapon - maintenance and repairs will require Armoury (specialisation)
and/or Mechanic (specialisation).  Why "and/or Mechanic"?  Say number one
fusion turret is OOC.  Is it the weapon that failed?  Call an armourer.  Or
is it a problem with the turret's drive mechanism?  Call a mechanic.  I'd
say that each of the different starship weapons would be a different
specialisation, both for gunners and for armourers, but Mechanic/TL
(Starship Turrets) should cover everything not related to the weapon itself.


James

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:22:47 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Terran Expansion prior to 1st IW

Jason Kemp wrote:
> 
> 'Evening, Friends,
> 
> I have a challenging question for anyone who's willing to take up the
> gauntlet.  This question centers around the expansion of Terrans
> prior to the 1st IW, and requires extensive knowledge of the
> capacities of both the Terrans and Vilani during this time period.
> (Heck, I'd even welcome some wild-haired guesses, so long as they're
> backed by some logical thought and support.)  If you feel up to the
> challenge, here goes:
> 
> What worlds within the Solomani Rim were surveyed by the Terrans
> between 2096AD and 2110AD, before the 1st IW broke out?  Which worlds
> did they colonize?
> 
According to the board game _Imperium_ (semi-canon, at any rate), the
Terran setup for the first campaign places World markers at Sol
(obviously), and Alpha Centauri A and B.  Outpost markers are placed at
Junction, Barnard's Star, and Proxima Centauri.

The Alpha Centuari system, from looking at a CT map of the Sol
subsector, seems to become Prometheus system.  I can't figure out where
Proxima Centauri ends up....  <shrug>

<<snip>>
> 
> For a bonus question, what worlds did the Vilani explore/colonize
> during this time period as well?  (Please restrict all references to
> within the Solomani Rim sector.)
> 
Again, according to _Imperium_, the Vilani have World markers at Dingir,
Gashidda (listed as the provincial capital), Ishkur, and tree other
primanry systems (possibilities are:  Lagash, Amarku, Nusku, Tau Ceti,
Epsilon Eridani, and Mirabilis), plus 7 Outpost markers, placed at
systems to connect (by Jump 1 or 2) all worlds.  In _Solomani Rim_
terms, Lagash and Amarku are two worlds in the binary Lagash system, Tau
Ceti appears to become Iilike, and Epsilon Eridani apprears to become
Shulimik.  Other Vilani settlements are not addressed. 

> Thanks in advance for whatever assistance can be extended.  I and my
> gamers appreciate it.
> 
> In Gratitude,
> Jason,  who keeps wondering why he ofttimes mistypes "Vilani" as
> "Villain".
> ============================
> Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
> (512)458-7111 ext. 3375
> 
> Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1342
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 1 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1343



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Happy Space:1999
Re: DSR (Was Re: Traveller World Building)
Re: Ravioli Gun
Board Game _Imperium_ and an IW Campaign
Re: Happy Space:1999
The Game "Elite"
Brits in Space.
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
Re: The Game "Elite"
Re: Micro Jumps
Re: Penguins Attack!
Re: Micro Jumps
Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.
TML Toasted!
Re: Happy Space:1999
Re: Happy New Year 
Re: DSR (Was Re: Traveller World Building)
Oops...
Re: Terran Expansion prior to 1st IW
Re: Penguins Attack!
Re: Board Game _Imperium_ and an IW Campaign
Re: Board Game _Imperium_ and an IW Campaign
World Builder Deluxe V2.1 & Sector Generator V3.1

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 23:20:39 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Happy Space:1999

At 22:48 31-12-98 EST, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 12/31/98 4:17:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>brclif@digital.net writes:
>
><< After that, you might want to write the Horror Channel which calls itself a
> Sci-Fi channel by dropping them an email asking for more "Space:1999 in
> '99".
> 
> program@www.scifi.com
>  >>
>
>Another fun series to lobby for is the British UFO series by Gerry Anderson...

Hey - does the SF channel ever show *The Invaders*?  (David Jansses, late
'60s)


James

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:35:39 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: DSR (Was Re: Traveller World Building)

Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
> 
> At 09:54 AM 30/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >Just think of this as the biological equivalent of Bruce's Definative
> >Sensor Rules.
> >
>         Speaking of which, where can I find a copy of these?

Try the following URL:

http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/house/

_Outstanding_ site!  Two thumbs up!  (And that's only because two thumbs
is all I have....)

>         -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
>                 Michel R. Vaillancourt
>                 misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
> 
>          Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
>                 "Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
>         -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
>                 Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
>                 "http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
>                 Into Traveller?  Check Out:
>                 "http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
>         -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:39:29 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

Alan Bradley wrote:
> 
> From: Mark Cook
> > Ooh, ooh, I can just see the headlines now!  "Canned beef products and
> > penguins rain bloody death on Tel-Aviv.  Film at eleven!" :^) :^) Do
> > you suppose Ditzie will now become a high-profile target for Mossad
> > assassins? :^)
> 
> Wouldn't canned pork be more dangerous?  How about Spam?
> 
Well, according to the label on my handy can of Chef Boyardee Mini
Ravioli [CBMR] (best suited for rapid-fire ravioli Gatling guns), CBMR
has both beef and cheese, thus making it non-kosher as well.

> Alan Bradley
> alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:59:50 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Board Game _Imperium_ and an IW Campaign

I'm planning an Interstellar Wars campaign based on the board game
_Imperium_.  A couple of questions come to mind:

1.  Does anybody have any good ideas on how to convert unit counters to
actual ships?  F'r instance, how many light cruisers are in a light
cruiser unit, and about how big are the cruisers in question?  Ditto for
ground forces.

2.  For most worlds, I can get the UWP from the _Solomani Rim_
supplement, which I can then use for the non-population-dependent
stats.  How best can I determine the population-based stats?  (Under the
circumstances, I will assume that TL will be fairly homogenous, at TL 10
to TL 11, since none of these worlds will have had a Long Night in which
to degenerate.)

3.  How many weeks/months are in a turn in _Imperium_?

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 00:08:32 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Happy Space:1999

Yeah, so did I.

- --Clif
>
>I miss that dopey series a lot... I even had the toys when I was a kid....
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 00:21:53 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: The Game "Elite"

Has anyone on the list played the game "Elite" that was on the Commodore
64/128?

It was kinda like Traveller without the roleplaying.  Just flying a ship
with various weapons and docking with space stations, trading in cargos.

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 00:47:38 -0800
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Brits in Space.

Here is a T4 character I created as an exercise in character creation.
He's a "Brit in Space".  I did this after all the complaints about "Yanks
in Space."


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
      Smith&Wesson -- The Ultimate "Point & Click" User interface.
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 18:47:09 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

.>Railgun projectiles are essentially ballistic, and
>only a blind man or a crippled ship couldn't avoid one.

BTW your ship is basically a blind man with respect to this
projectile,  an unpowered kinetic projectile with a cross section of
less than 2cm moving at 4Km/s  (current velocities, probably much
faster in Traveller terms ) is almost impossible to detect in time to
react to it.

And, of course the above argument completely misses the fact that
railguns are _cheap_ in comparison to missiles beam weapons etc.

Your blind ship may luckily detect and avoid _one_ such projectile,
what if we throw five
thousand at you a minute in a cloud ?
(Yes, you'll probably detect the cloud before it spreads )

The _only_ real defense against rail guns is _very_ thick armour planetoid or several metres
concrete or a foot or two of modern spaced armour ) or a black globe.
Dodging the projectiles is really not an option.

The major reason rail gun usage  would be limited is that the
projectile doesn't care _whose_ ship it hits.  OK if you stay "in line
of battle" like ancient sailing ships, but damn dangerous if the
battle turns into a rolling 3D dog fight.

It will also keep going. Imagine the flack you'd get from high command
if you if you fired on the wrong vector and hit the planet or star
port you were trying to defend !

No disagreement with your descriptoin of laser targetting  though.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 01:26:33 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

I'm convinced.  Get Marc Miller to add it to the new rules.

- --Clif

>Your blind ship may luckily detect and avoid _one_ such projectile,
>what if we throw five
>thousand at you a minute in a cloud ?
>(Yes, you'll probably detect the cloud before it spreads )
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 19:42:49 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: The Game "Elite"

>Has anyone on the list played the game "Elite" that was on the
Commodore
>64/128?

You mean the game that was on the BBC, and was then copied to most
other platforms at the time including, Commodore 64,  Atari and PC.
There is a descendant of this still available on the PC, the
"Frontier" series.

I still have an original copy of BBC Elite complete with the "novel"
that accompanied it as background material, "The Dark Wheel", by
Richard Holdstock. It's more a short story or novella really,  I think
it was called a novel becasue it was a novel idea to provide such
background material for a computer game back then.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:52:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Micro Jumps

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>>H. Beam Piper had jumps take almost no time in realspace, but the folks
>>on board ship experienced time during the jump... 
>
> What story is that? It sounds like one I don't know.

It's mentioned in passing in one of the Fuzzy books(They ask Jack
Holloway how old he is, and he gives an answer and adds he hasn't a
clue how much to allow for hyperspace differential), and it's
explicitly mentioned in one of the other books (Space Viking?). And
there may be other mentions. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:56:43 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Penguins Attack!

...
>>Which of course brings to mind the games RAF pilots played with penguins in
>>the Falklands and South Georgia.

  I recall hearing about the Argentine soldiers and the sheep (get your
mind out of the gutter! - they're not Scots, after all); at first they
would walk up, give them a hug, and take them home for dinner. As time
went by the remaining sheep got warier and they had to be recruited by
fire from progressively longer ranged firearms...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 23:02:31 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Micro Jumps

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
> >H. Beam Piper had jumps take almost no time in realspace, but the folks
> >on board ship experienced time during the jump...

Nope, the figure given in Space Vikings was a Ly an Hour, time ran thesame
for both. In empire he mentions faster drives.

> What story is that? It sounds like one I don't know.

Yea, if there is a change Let us know.

Evyn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:32:41 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

SD Mooney wrote:

>  PC owners who can run hypercard stacks

How?

I have some stacks I really would like to use.

Evyn...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 03:36:16 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.

At 09:21 PM 30/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 12/30/98 10:33:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>brclif@digital.net writes:
>
><< 
> Its true!  When I was a teen, I shot a can of ravioli at point blank range
> with only a .22 and had a lot of it on my clothes, as a result.  : )
> 
> --Clif
>  >>
>
>Yes, but this time the can of ravioli is the projectile; not the target...
>

        I don't blame him for doing it this way...  ever tried to get a can
of Ravioli to fit in the breech of a .22?  Makes a *horrible* mess...  =)
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 02:36:56 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@erols.com>
Subject: TML Toasted!

At 2355 EST I hoisted a glass of pretty good champagne in toast to the
wildly heterogenous membership of the TML, including every member from the
psychotic, the political, the scrupulously (sp?) TRAV-oriented, right down
to the invisible majority - the lurkers...  HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL!
It's a wonderful community we have - wart and wrinkles and all - and I look
forward to another year of AT LEAST as chaotic correspondence as the last!

Oh - and my fellow partyers looked at me a bit oddly when I toasted you; my
wife asked me what the ##@$ I was doing trying to steal a champagne march
on the rest of the group, toasting at 2355 and not at 2400!!!  Well, it
worked for me!  ;-)




Bill Rutherford
worj@erols.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 02:47:11 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Space:1999

Clif,

I've disagreed with a lot of what you've writ but wish you a happy 1999 all
the same because you've done nothing if not kept the list lively of late...
 Different views breed discussion which breeds fresh ideas. Happy New Year!

- - Bill


At 07:10 PM 12/31/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Before most of you toast the new year, take some time out to get nostalgic
>over the Sci-Fi series with the vision...
>
>http://www.cybrary1999.com/
>
>After that, you might want to write the Horror Channel which calls itself a
>Sci-Fi channel by dropping them an email asking for more "Space:1999 in
>'99".
>
>program@www.scifi.com
>
>Or discuss the special effects, the science, or the fiction of Space:1999 by
>subscribing to:
>
>space1999-request@buffnet4.buffnet.net
>
>Happy Space:1999!
>Clif
> 
Bill Rutherford
worj@erols.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 02:47:51 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year 

Happy New Year yerself!


At 12:47 AM 1/1/99 +0000, you wrote:
>Happy New Year to all.
>
>Cheers.
>
>And thanks for the fun ;-)
>
>obtrav: There isn't one really. Mea Culpa.
>
>Dom
>
>------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
>"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
>that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
>You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
>'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
>MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 
> 
Bill Rutherford
worj@erols.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 03:58:45 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: DSR (Was Re: Traveller World Building)

At 10:35 PM 31/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>> 
>> At 09:54 AM 30/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> >
>> >Just think of this as the biological equivalent of Bruce's Definative
>> >Sensor Rules.
>> >
>>         Speaking of which, where can I find a copy of these?
>
>Try the following URL:
>
>http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/house/
>
>_Outstanding_ site!  Two thumbs up!  (And that's only because two thumbs
>is all I have....)
>
        Thanks very much...  I should have thought to look at Joe's site...

        Anyone care to tell me what "HEPLaR" stands for?  I'm a CT junkie,
and keep seeing references to this technology...
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 02:58:57 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@erols.com>
Subject: Oops...

Please excuse the last couple of messages I sent to the list - due to a
combination of thick fingers, late hour, and early year-date, I neglected
to send 'em to the proper addressees and instead sent them to the list...
Happy New Year!


Bill Rutherford
worj@erols.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 22:14:40 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Terran Expansion prior to 1st IW

>'Evening, Friends,

>What worlds within the Solomani Rim were surveyed by the Terrans 
>between 2096AD and 2110AD, before the 1st IW broke out?  Which worlds
>did they colonize?

If you have galatic 2.4 you have my answer already :*>. However MHO all the 
worlds in the jump 1 group rimward of Terra (Prometheus, Peraspera, Junction, 
Fenris, Midway, Hades, Hespaitos, Calgery, Inferno and Forlorn) have been 
survey and settled. However only Prometheus (90 million) and Junction (10 
million) could be considered to be solidly colonised. The others have between 
20,000 and 5 million but are best regarded as outposts. The Terrans would have 
most likely expanded as far and as fast as possible in an attempt to secure 
their position against the Vilani, but being limited to TL 9 they would only be so 
far that they could go.

>Mick Bailey's Unbroken Pride article indicates that the 1st IW was 
>primarily fought over Fenris and Barnard.  That same article 
>indicates that the worlds of neighboring Dingir subsector were the 
>battlefields for the 2nd through the 7th IW, while Arcturus wasn't 
>settled until well into the Rule of Man.  From the sounds of it, 
>Terrans stayed within their subsector and pushed somewhat spinward, 
>before kicking Vilani bu...uh, er, uh, resoundly defeating the Vilani 
>coreward and pushing into Ziru Sirka territory.

I know this is canon, but it conflicts radically with the map in AM6 which shows 
the TC controlling a very substaintial region to rimward. My handwave to deal 
with this is that the Terrans did expand a lot down a narrow corridor (the 
Capella and Gemini subsectors) leaving the surrounding space as a buffer to 
protect their colonies; and then expanded out in the Canopus, Aldaberan and 
Neworld sectors.

>I assume that the Unbroken Pride information is based off of the old 
>Solomani Rim supplement.  Does anyone have any other information to 
>offer?

Only my own work for Prometheus Rising.

>For a bonus question, what worlds did the Vilani explore/colonize
>during this time period as well?  (Please restrict all references to
>within the Solomani Rim sector.)

To put it simply, none. They had not colonised any worlds anywhere for a 
thousand years. It would seem unlikely that they would suddenly start.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 00:42:25
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Penguins Attack!

At 07:03 PM 12/31/98 -0500, you wrote:
>What did the pilots do?

Penguins will follow flying items.  For some reason (jealousy?) the are
fascinated by things in flight.  RAF pilots discover that the massive
penguins colonies along South Georgia's coast would watch them as the flew
by.  Harrier pilots loved to make a few slow passes from left to right,
like a slow-motion tennis mach, then go out to sea and come straight over
the colony.  The penguins would keep looking up, up, up...

And 20,000 penguins would fall on their asses simultaneously.
- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
|   B E A T  G R E E N  B A Y ! ! !  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 19:52:34 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Board Game _Imperium_ and an IW Campaign

From: Black ICE 
> I'm planning an Interstellar Wars campaign based on the board game
> _Imperium_.  A couple of questions come to mind:
> 
> 1.  Does anybody have any good ideas on how to convert unit counters to
> actual ships?  F'r instance, how many light cruisers are in a light
> cruiser unit, and about how big are the cruisers in question?  Ditto for
> ground forces.

Well, according to Imperium, each starship counter represents a squadron of
individual ships, and each troop counter represents a reinforced division. 
Planetary defense markers represent "extensive batteries of missile and
beam installations as well as supporting fire control provisions", whatever
that means.  

Well, I'd guess that the squadrons would roughly be about the same size at
3I squadrons.  In the 1st IW, the Terran squadrons, particularly, might be
more variable and less homogeneous, since according to the CT Solomani
Alien Module, it was fought by national squadrons under tenuous fleet
control.  In other words, it was "come as you are".

How big are the ships?  How long is a piece of string?  I would guess that
they might be smaller than their 3I equivalents, but the clunkiness of the
technology might require larger ships to pack spinal mounts, and so on. 
The best source might be the MT ship book - "Fighting Ships of the
Shattered Imperium" or whatever it is.  I don't have a copy, so I don't
know what it has in it exactly, but IIRC it had lots of TL 10-11 stuff.  Of
course, then you have to convert them to other systems, if you're not using
MT.

Ground Forces:  Use existing stuff on ground forces from other periods, and
design suitable equipment at the TL.
 
> 2.  For most worlds, I can get the UWP from the _Solomani Rim_
> supplement, which I can then use for the non-population-dependent
> stats.  How best can I determine the population-based stats?  (Under the
> circumstances, I will assume that TL will be fairly homogenous, at TL 10
> to TL 11, since none of these worlds will have had a Long Night in which
> to degenerate.)

Well, Andrew MV has some figures in Galactic 2.4.  I'm not sure where he
got them from, but I suspect it's rule of thumb:  "Worlds" have more
population than "Outposts".  Anyway, I'll leave him to explain his logic,
but his numbers feel about right, IMHO.

> 3.  How many weeks/months are in a turn in _Imperium_?

According to the rules, game turns are two Terran years. 

Anyway, I hope there is something useful here.  Andrew would be a good
person to chase.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:30:32 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Board Game _Imperium_ and an IW Campaign

From:           	"Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Date sent:      	Fri, 1 Jan 1999 19:52:34 +1000

>From: Black ICE 

>> 2.  For most worlds, I can get the UWP from the _Solomani Rim_
>> supplement, which I can then use for the non-population-dependent
>> stats.  How best can I determine the population-based stats?  (Under the
>> circumstances, I will assume that TL will be fairly homogenous, at TL 10
>> to TL 11, since none of these worlds will have had a Long Night in which
>> to degenerate.)

>Well, Andrew MV has some figures in Galactic 2.4.  I'm not sure where he
>got them from, but I suspect it's rule of thumb:  "Worlds" have more
>population than "Outposts".  Anyway, I'll leave him to explain his logic,
>but his numbers feel about right, IMHO.

I took Micheal Barry's suggested rules for generating Vilani worlds and 
regenerated them from scratch. Then took the data in Imperium and other 
published sources and modified the raw data to match.

Micheal's ideas for Vilani worlds are based on the idea that lacking advanced 
biomedical technology, it would have been much harder for them to colonise 
marginal worlds. Thus in my data you will note that worlds with hostile 
environments tend to have much lower population and frequently they are 
uninhabited. Also I did not equalise the Vilani technology. In the Ziru Sirka the 
Vilani restricted access to technology as a form of control, therefore you will 
find a wide spread of technology.

Actually IMHO this would be more pronounced than in later eras. The Vilani so 
totally dominate trade that they can prevent high tech goods from reaching low 
tech worlds (Okay Shiruk is TL 7, therefore it only needs TL 7 goods, therefore 
it only gets TL 7 goods, therefore it is unable to challange the central authority 
of the ZS). Okay it wouldn't be quite that severe, but the ZS attitude was fairly 
much "the people have what they need, why give them more?"

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 11:24:12 -0000
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net>
Subject: World Builder Deluxe V2.1 & Sector Generator V3.1

Happy New Year everyone!

V2.1 of my World Builder program has now been released. The program provides
a number of upgrades to V2.0 including:-

1) Ability to load Sector Files (*.SEC)
2) Ability to display data in RICE Paper format. (Extended UWP Data only at
moment.)
3) Temperature Worksheet calculated.
4) Ability to select Random Number Seed.
5) Calculations added for Travel Zones and Satellites.
6) Ability to select which Data is displayed.

V3.1 of my Sector Generator is actually a bug fix. I noticed that V3
generates an 'Out of Memory' error with rather alarming frequency. This has
now been fixed in V3.1.

They can both be downloaded for the usual location on my website.

Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@virgin.net
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1343
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 1 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1344



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

"Flaky" astronomy question
Moderated List 
Archives
HEPlaR
FSotSI (was Re: Board Game _Imperium_ and an IW Campaign)
Re: "Flaky" astronomy question
Re: The Game "Elite"
Happy New Year (and Happy Emperor's Birthday!)
Re: The Game "Elite"
Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
re: The Game "Elite"
re: Brits in Space.
Re: DSR (Was Re: Traveller World Building)
Unresolved-class (LONG)
Re: Happy New Year (and Happy Emperor's Birthday!) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 01:22:38 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: "Flaky" astronomy question

I remember reading somewhere recently that astronomers have postulated that 
a stellar remnant (ie dead star) would actually be a gigantic diamond (or coated 
in diamond, I can't remember which). Now here is my flaky question. Would 
this be an accessable resource (could be mined) or would gravity and/or 
radiation prevent this?

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 07:56:17 -0800
From: Rob Dean <rsdean@erols.com>
Subject: Moderated List 

Michel writes:

>         I hate to agree with you, but I agree with you.  I currently deleted
> one message in four because it unconstructive squabling....  it's more like
> one in two when Rob Prior isn't leaning on the "CHURN" key of his ship
> design program (Hi Rob!  Great designs!). 
>         Regards,
>         --Michel

Before going to full moderation, there is one archaic suggestion that I would like 
to offer.  Back in the dawn of time (around 1991), the TML was _only_ offered in
digest form, and the fact that you didn't get instant response cycles going seemed
to help to keep the discussion focussed on Traveller.  How many other TML dinosaurs
are still out there, I wonder?

I've had to change ISPs recently, by the way, so anyone needing to contact me
now needs to find me at rsdean@erols.com vice robdean@access.digex.net.

With a return to more mainstream Traveller (i.e. more CT-like) with GURPS, I'm
dusting off my books and settling down for a bit of reading.  I hope to find a
store with all of the GURPS Trav books available at one shot in the near future,
but I expect I'll continue to use MT.

Rob Dean
(TML dinosaur, Traveller gamer since 1977)
rsdean@erols.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 07:59:25 -0800
From: Rob Dean <rsdean@erols.com>
Subject: Archives

By the way, is there any archive location still holding the early days
of the TML?

Rob Dean
rsdean@erols.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 08:29:35 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: HEPlaR

A couple non-TNE folks have asked about HEPlaR recently.  The following is
therefore provided as a public service. 8)

- -------     -------     -------     -------

    HEPlaR:  The other thrust agency [other than propellors, that is, which
were treated in the preceding section], high efficiency plasma recombustion
(HEPlaR), becomes available at tech level 10.  It may be added to any power
plant by adding a heat exchanger recombustion chamber to the plant.
Hydrogen is injected into the recombustion chamber and the power generated
by the engine heats the hydrogen to a plasma state.  The plasma is then
released as a high velocity stream of reaction mass, providing thrust.
    HEPlaR requires a recombustion chamber of 0.1 cubic meters in volume
per megawatt of power devoted to thrust, and in turn generates 20 metric
tonnes of thrust per megawatt.  The recombustion chamber masses 1 tonne per
cubic meter of recombustion chamber and costs 0.001 million credits per
megawatt of power.  It consumes 0.25 cubic meters of liquid hydrogen (LHyd)
per hour per megawatt of power and may be used on any type of airframe.
Hull surface area (used for spacecraft only) in square meters is equal to
thrust (in tonnes) / 200.

[*Fire, Fusion, & Steel: Traveller Technical Architecture*, Mk I, Mod 1
(Jan 94), p 70.  Copyright 1993, GDW Inc.]

- -------     -------     -------     -------

The only problem I had with HEPlaR was the way it was used - it became
*the* TNE manoeuvre drive, used in *everything*.  Fine for starships and
spacecraft, but it was also also used in vehicles - look at the TL14
Intrepid grav tank, RC TL12 convertible "ragtop" air raft, and TL13 Pyrrhus
support sled in the *Reformation Coalition Equipment Guide* (pp 112, 114,
and 126. respectively).  Life must be very exciting for pedestrians in
cities where all of the air rafts and other grav vehicles are being
propelled (and presumably steered) by "high velocity streams" of plasma!
And picture the Scout Service air raft, preparing to explore a new planet,
landing in a prairie or forest after several months of drought....


James

- ----------     ----------     ----------     ----------
HEAVEN is where all the police are English, the mechanics
German, the lovers Greek, and the cooks French, and it's
all run by the Swiss.  HELL is where all the police are
German, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, and the
cooks English, and it's all run by the Greeks.
                      (from a t-shirt I bought in Greece)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 08:45:11 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: FSotSI (was Re: Board Game _Imperium_ and an IW Campaign)

At 19:52 1-1-99 +1000, Alan Bradley wrote:
>The best source might be the MT ship book - "Fighting Ships of the
>Shattered Imperium" or whatever it is.  I don't have a copy, so I don't
>know what it has in it exactly, but IIRC it had lots of TL 10-11 stuff.

Lower level stuff, yes, but most of it was trash.  The ships were far too
large, IMO - starting with 10kton escorts and running up to 700kton
battleships.  (If I ever actually use any of the ships, I'll divide the
displacement by 10 and then recompute.)  And the profiles were seriously
flawed.  Two examples:

     - In *every* ship design, the number of gunners was the same as the
number of flight crew, regardless of the number of guns and the number of
subcraft;
     - Cargo space used for tankage (ie, extra fuel carried, ad in a
tanker) kept popping up in the strangest places, and in very peculiar
amounts - my copy of the book is over at the storage unit, so I can't look
it up, but I distinctly recall one design which supposedly carried several
times its own displacement in tankage.


James

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 06:17:17 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: "Flaky" astronomy question

> I remember reading somewhere recently that astronomers have postulated that 
> a stellar remnant (ie dead star) would actually be a gigantic diamond (or coated 
> in diamond, I can't remember which). Now here is my flaky question. Would 
> this be an accessable resource (could be mined) or would gravity and/or 
> radiation prevent this?
> 
> Andrew etc.

In 2061, Arthur C. Clark talks about something like this either on Europa,
or Io...  I would have to say that in a large enough chunk, then gravity
would be a problem, but I can see it breaking up in to smaller peices...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 07:59:22 -0600
From: David Smart <warlock@imagin.net>
Subject: Re: The Game "Elite"

Clif posted:
> 
> Has anyone on the list played the game "Elite" that was on the Commodore
> 64/128?
> 
> It was kinda like Traveller without the roleplaying.  Just flying a ship
> with various weapons and docking with space stations, trading in cargos.

Yeah! Loved it! As a matter of fact, this past weekend I picked
up the 3rd(?) generation of the game written for a 486/50. Per
the box, it's greatly expanded and is almost a low-end version
of the Privateer/Wing Commander games. Unfortunately, it's
written strictly for DOS and I can't get it to boot under any
version of Win9x. :-( :-(  Oh, well, $6.00 down the drain.

Has anyone, by chance, played Privateer/Privateer II?
*Lots* of ideas/screen shots for Traveller!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 08:28:43 -0600
From: David Smart <warlock@imagin.net>
Subject: Happy New Year (and Happy Emperor's Birthday!)

Happy New Year to you all gals and guys in all the Traveller
universes!

And an especially Happy New Year to all of you who have spent
a part of your life developing software for Traveller and
letting us all have a free copy. You folks have really made my
life as a ref so much easier.

Finally, Marc, thank you so very, very much for 20 years of
Traveller for me. Today marks my 20th anniversary of being
a Traveller referee. New Year's resolution: run one heck of
a campaign!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 09:49:20 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: The Game "Elite"

This was a great game.  When I still had an Amiga, I would play the follow on
"Frontier".  Frontier was to a point a much better game.  The starflight was
realistic, except for the jumps of course.  The jumps were pretty much like the
Traveller model, except that your exit point was always in the outer edge of
the target star system.

Space combat in Frontier left something to be desired.  It almost always
seemed to become too difficult to continue (i.e. - being blasted by a pirate)
after only a few jumps.  I really don't know how the game designers expected
an unaltered human to effectively target enemy ships at ten or more kilometers
range.

I always thought that this game, fleshed out with actual character roll playing
when on the ground or in space stations would make a great Traveller type
game.  Something like the Hexplore interface would be nice.

Of course a Traveller game like this just wouldn't be complete without a
vehicle and ship design system.  Say you travel over to one of the local
shipbuilders and are given the option of easily designing a unique ship
in graphical format.  This would be cool.

Eric

- -----Original Message-----
From: David Smart <warlock@imagin.net>
To: traveller@TanSoft.COM <traveller@TanSoft.COM>
Date: Friday, January 01, 1999 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: The Game "Elite"


>Clif posted:
>>
>> Has anyone on the list played the game "Elite" that was on the Commodore
>> 64/128?
>>
>> It was kinda like Traveller without the roleplaying.  Just flying a ship
>> with various weapons and docking with space stations, trading in cargos.
>
>Yeah! Loved it! As a matter of fact, this past weekend I picked
>up the 3rd(?) generation of the game written for a 486/50. Per
>the box, it's greatly expanded and is almost a low-end version
>of the Privateer/Wing Commander games. Unfortunately, it's
>written strictly for DOS and I can't get it to boot under any
>version of Win9x. :-( :-(  Oh, well, $6.00 down the drain.
>
>Has anyone, by chance, played Privateer/Privateer II?
>*Lots* of ideas/screen shots for Traveller!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 14:41:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net> wrote:

>>  PC owners who can run hypercard stacks
>
>How?
>
>I have some stacks I really would like to use.
>
>Evyn...

Erm, a while ago someone mentioned a Mac Emulator for Windows which worked
well enough to run Infini-V (Doug?), and there was a limited freeware
release. In addition, ISTR someone mentioning an expensive PC package (500
GBP plus) which could convert or run them. But I haven't got the references
anymore.

Myst was based on Hypercard so there must be something out there...

Has anyone looked into this?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 14:36:45 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: The Game "Elite"

"Clif" <brclif@digital.net> wrote:

>Has anyone on the list played the game "Elite" that was on the Commodore
>64/128?

Well, it was actually released originally for the Acorn BBC Model B
Computer in the UK. Some of the ports were great (the ST one was really
close in feel to the BBC). I played it a lot when I was younger..

>It was kinda like Traveller without the roleplaying.  Just flying a ship
>with various weapons and docking with space stations, trading in cargos.

There was at least one sequel - Frontier - but the combat was lousy (proper
physics and inertia so it tended to degenerate into high speed firing
passes).

Dom (Deadly - ST Elite, Dangerous  - BBC-B)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 14:37:58 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Brits in Space.

Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com> wrote:

>Here is a T4 character I created as an exercise in character creation.
>He's a "Brit in Space".  I did this after all the complaints about "Yanks
>in Space."

If it was an attachment it won't make the Digest :-(

Anyway, only Space:1889 had proper Brits in Space.

Dom ;-)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 14:47:17 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: DSR (Was Re: Traveller World Building)

Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca> wrote:

>        Anyone care to tell me what "HEPLaR" stands for?  I'm a CT junkie,
>and keep seeing references to this technology...

High Energy PLAsma Recombustion

A plasma torch drive connected to a fusion plant, otherwise known as 'the
abomination which replaced Thruster Plates in TNE'. Although T4 took the
sensible approach of keeping both technologies.

I believe it could be considered early canon as someone mentioned 1st Ed
High Guard refers to fusion torch engines.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 02:16:35 +1100
From: David Jaques-Watson <davidjw@pcug.org.au>
Subject: Unresolved-class (LONG)

Dear Folks -

Here is the "Unresolved" spreadsheet (I hope it survives passage over the 'Net):

 MegaTraveller Craft Design Sequence Table

      Purpose of Craft:         G-Carrier      Displacement tonnage:
            Tech Level:                   15                  10.000
   Craft Size Catagory:         Vehicle

 Description               Power      Volume      Weight       Price

1. Hull Section

 Hull size                     -     135.000       5.700       0.010
 Box-4                         -           -       1.000       0.060
 Streamlined-SL                -           -           -       1.500
 Planetoid per unit            -           ?           ?       0.000
              SUBTOT           -       0.000       0.000       0.000
 Armor:
 Bonded superdense-G           -           -       0.140       1.000
  Factor-40                    -           -      33.000      33.000
              SUBTOT           -           -      26.334       0.030
 Open top?                     -           -           ?       0.000
 Turret                        -       5.000       5.000       5.000
                                       6.750
      TOTALS               0.000      141.75       27.65       0.031

2. Power Supply

 Fusion Power-plant-15:                         kl/hour:       0.009
   per unit                6.000       0.090       2.000       0.200
   # of PP units          12.500      12.500      12.500      12.500
   Output Mod multi        1.000         N/A         N/A         N/A
      SUBTOT              75.000       1.125      25.000       2.500

      TOTALS              75.000       1.125      25.000       2.500

 Description               Power      Volume      Weight       Price

3. Locomotion

 Thrust-based suspension:
   Std Grav                   Required Tons calculation:     195.534
   Thrust (in Gs)          0.500...actual Required Tons:     196.000
   per unit                0.100       0.020       0.040       0.002
      SUBTOT              19.600       3.920       7.840       0.392

 Avionics (TL 15)          0.020       0.100       0.050       0.017

         (See Evaluation for excess power and Agility)

      TOTALS              19.620       4.020       7.890       0.409

4. Communicators

 Meson: Regional-15        0.050       0.500       0.500       0.250
 Radio: System-15          0.007       0.014       0.007       0.150
 Laser: Regional-15        0.002       0.004       0.002       0.011
 Maser: Regional-15        0.003       0.006       0.003       0.022

      TOTALS               0.062       0.524       0.512       0.433

5. Sensors and Electronics

 Individual equipment:
  EMMask per kl            0.001       0.020       0.010       0.005
   full hull               0.135       2.700       1.350       0.675
  Visible Light & IR Enhancement Sensors
   Headlights              0.002       0.004       0.002       0.000
  Neural Activity Sensor
   Very Long-15            0.006       0.002       0.005       0.020
  Miscellaneous Sensors
   Passive Audio           0.001       0.002       0.001       0.000
   Environ Sensor          0.004       0.008       0.004       0.001
   Magnetic Sensor         0.001       0.002       0.001       0.001
  Miscellaneous Devices
   Holorecorder,TL15       0.005       0.003       0.003       0.005
      SUBTOT               0.154       2.721       1.366       0.703

 Larger individual sensors:
  High-pen Densit-15       0.400       7.000       1.500       1.500
  Neutrino Sensor-14       0.200       0.200       0.095       0.110
      SUBTOT               0.600       7.200       1.595       1.610

 Integrated Space Vessel sensors:
  EMS Active Array
   Regional-14             0.080       0.016       0.008       0.160
  EMS Passive Array
   Continental-14          0.040       0.008       0.004       0.080
  EMS Jammer
   Regional-14             0.160       0.032       0.016       0.320
      SUBTOT               0.280       0.056       0.028       0.560

      TOTALS               1.034       9.977       2.989       2.873

 Description               Power      Volume      Weight       Price

6. Weapons

 Guns:

  Rapid Pulse Fusion Gun RFX-15
    V. distant (18)       42.000       0.080       0.080       0.131
    Rate Of Fire          80.000
      Penetration         67.000      Damage      30.000

 Extra equipment:
  Point Defence-TL?            ?       0.000           ?           ?

      TOTALS              42.000       0.080       0.080       0.131

7. Screens

 Vehicle & Miscellaneous Devices:
  Smoke Disch. (TL5)       0.001       0.005       0.005       0.000
                  10       0.010       0.050       0.050       0.001
  Prism. Aero (TL10)       0.003       0.001       0.002       0.000
                  10       0.030       0.010       0.020       0.000
      SUBTOT               0.040       0.060       0.070       0.002

      TOTALS               0.040       0.060       0.070       0.002

8a. Environmental Controls

 Intake Compressor         0.005       0.100       0.100       0.000
                   0       0.000       0.000       0.000       0.000
 Basic Environment         0.001       0.005       0.005       0.000
                   1       0.135       0.675       0.675       0.001
 Basic Life-Support        0.001       0.005       0.005       0.000
                   1       0.135       0.675       0.675       0.040
 Ext. Life-Support         0.002       0.003       0.003       0.000
                   1       0.270       0.405       0.405       0.027
 Grav Plates               0.050       0.010       0.020       0.000
                   1       6.750       1.350       2.700       0.067
 Inert. Compensators       0.020       0.010       0.020       0.000
                   1       2.700       1.350       2.700       0.034
      SUBTOT               9.990       4.455       7.155       0.170

 Airlock                   0.002       3.000       0.200       0.005
   Number?                 0.000       0.000       0.000       0.000

      TOTALS               9.990       4.455       7.155       0.170

8b. Bridge

 Control Point (CP) calculation:
   Hull                    0.031 MCr  equals       4.678 CP
   Power Supply            2.500 MCr  equals     375.000 CP
   Locomotion              0.409 MCr  equals      61.350 CP
   Communicators           0.433 MCr  equals      64.950 CP
   Sensors & Elect.        2.873 MCr  equals     430.920 CP
   Weapons                 0.131 MCr  equals      19.650 CP
   Screens                 0.002 MCr  equals       0.255 CP
   Environ Control         0.170 MCr  equals      25.515 CP
 COST TO DATE              6.549   REQ'D CPs     982.318

 Special Control Panel Add-Ons:
  Heads-up Holodisp.       0.020       1.000       0.500       0.100
    CP provided          200.000
    No. of units           3.000
      SUB-SUBTOT           0.060       3.000       1.500       0.300

      SUBTOT               0.060       3.000       1.500       0.300

 Computers:
  Model-2                  0.003       3.500       0.900       1.900
    CP Multiplier         15.000            Max CP Input   10000.000
  Model 1-fib              0.004       4.000       0.900       0.650
    CP Multiplier         10.000            Max CP Input    5000.000
  Model??                      ?           ?           ?           ?
    CP Multiplier              1            Max CP Input           ?
      SUBTOT               0.007       7.500       1.800       2.550

 REQ'D CPs TO DATE       382.318

 Control Panels:
  Holo Linked              0.002       0.030       0.020       0.001
    CPs per unit           1.500
    No. of units          43.659
      SUBTOT               0.087       1.310       0.873       0.044

 ECP Multiplier            1.500

      TOTALS               0.154      11.810       6.260       4.340

9. Accomodations

 Vehicles & Small Craft:
  Section 1: Number of Crewmembers Required
    Operator/Driver        1.000
    Gunner(s)              1.000
     Reduction by CP       0.000
     Actual number         1.000
    Commander              1.000
     Reduction by CP
     Actual number         1.000
    Passengers             5.000
  Total Crew Req'd         8.000

  Section 2: Vehicle Crew Accomodations Installed
    None                     NIL       1.000       0.020       0.000
      Number?              0.000       0.000       0.000       0.000
    Cramped                  NIL       2.000       0.020       0.000
     Number?              0.000       0.000       0.000       0.000
    Adequate                 NIL       3.000       0.020       0.000
      Number?              0.000       0.000       0.000       0.000
    Roomy                    NIL       4.000       0.020       0.000
                   8       0.000      32.000       0.160       0.000

      SUBTOT               0.000      32.000       0.160       0.000

      TOTALS               0.000      32.000       0.160       0.000

10. Fuel and Miscellaneous

 PP Fuel: Hydrogen           NIL         N/A       0.070       0.000
   Duration (hours)      240.000
   Total PP Fuel           0.000      27.000       1.890    0.000945

      SUBTOT               0.000      27.000       1.890       0.001

      TOTALS               0.000      27.000       1.890       0.001

 Cargo space                 N/A      50.699      50.699       0.000

11. Overall Craft Evaluation

 TOTALS BROUGHT FORWARD:
   Hull                      N/A     141.750      27.651       0.031
   Power                  75.000       1.125      25.000       2.500
   Locomotion             19.620       4.020       7.890       0.409
   Communicators           0.062       0.524       0.512       0.433
   Sensors & Elect         1.034       9.977       2.989       2.873
   Weapons                42.000       0.080       0.080       0.131
   Screens                 0.040       0.060       0.070       0.002
   Environ Controls        9.990       4.455       7.155       0.170
   Bridge                  0.154      11.810       6.260       4.340
   Accomodations           0.000      32.000       0.160       0.000
   Fuel & Misc             0.000      27.000       1.890       0.001
   Cargo                     N/A      50.699      50.699         N/A
 TOTALS                   72.900      91.051     130.356      10.891

   Excess Values           2.100      50.699         N/A         N/A

 Agility                   0.000

12. Design Evaluation

 CraftID:
   Craft Name       Q-Resolve
   Craft Type       G-Carrier
   Craft Overall TL       15.000
   Total Price            10.891
 Hull:                                       INOPERATIVE   DESTROYED
   Damage Points                                  10.000      24.000
   Unloaded Weight        77.766
   Loaded Weight         130.356
 Power:
   Damage Points                                   2.000       3.000
   Duration (24-hr)       10.000
   Duration (8-hr)        30.000
 Loco:
   Damage pts (suspension & transmission)          1.000       2.000
     Thrust-based speeds:
       Man. Thrust         0.504
       Top Speed         600.000
       Cruising          450.000
       NOE               150.000 (N/A for ACVs)
 Commo:
   List the commo equipment and its range.
 Sensors:
   Active Object Scan           Difficult
   Active Object Pinpoint       Difficult
   Passive Object Scan          Routine
   Passive Object Pinpoint      Routine
   Passive Energy Scan          Difficult
   Passive Energy Pinpoint      Routine
 Off:
   List the craft's offensive weapons using the hardpoint
   format (pp 84 & 88) or the WEAPON STAT format (p 89).
 Def:
   Prismatic Aerosol * 10
   Smoke * 10
 Control:
   List the computer(s), panel units, special displays,
   and environmental equipment.
 Accom:
   List the number of crew sections, then breakdown of
   crew, then high, middle, and low passengers.
 Other:
   Cargo Capacity         50.699       3.755 HG tons
   Fuel Capacity          27.000
   Object Size           Average
   Emmission:
     PP Output            75.000
     Emmission Level        None
************************************************************

You can see it is a nasty Q-ship type of craft. Externally, it looks identical to the Resolve but it has AF 40 all round, NO emissions, and a RPX-gun (I forgot I included a turret - although I didn't include the point defence!). We also couldn't fit an airlock in. Shucks.

Top speed of 600 kph, the whole thing costs too much for most PC's: MCr 10.8 (the original Resolve costs MCr 3 for AF 10 and top speed of 420 kph). This thing *cruises* faster than the original's top speed!

I've noticed I'm cheating a little - I only have 2 computers. Don't flying craft need three? I *do* have 3 disp. tons of cargo space available...

Note that I haven't modified the Damage Points - I believe that the errata is that they should be multiplied by 10 to give the equivalent personal combat Damage Points?

Anyway, now that I've copied it across from the Amiga to the PC, I'll tidy it up and post it on my site RSN, I promise... ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 10:18:45 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Happy New Year (and Happy Emperor's Birthday!) 

> Happy New Year to you all gals and guys in all the Traveller
> universes!

Here, here.

> And an especially Happy New Year to all of you who have spent
> a part of your life developing software for Traveller and
> letting us all have a free copy. You folks have really made my
> life as a ref so much easier.

Here, here.
 
> Finally, Marc, thank you so very, very much for 20 years of
> Traveller for me. Today marks my 20th anniversary of being
> a Traveller referee. New Year's resolution: run one heck of
> a campaign!

Here here.

And may all the Impregnable Armoured Beachballs From Hell get swallowed into a 
black hole someplace.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1344
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 1 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1345



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Trade Model
Re: availability of G:T (was Moderated List)
Re: The Game "Elite"
Re: Micro jumps
Re: availability of G:T (was Moderated List)
Astrogator 4
Re: Ravioli Gun
Re: Astrogator 4 
Re: Ravioli Gun
Re: Penguins Attack!
Re: "Flaky" astronomy question
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
Re: Ravioli Gun 
Re: "Flaky" astronomy question
Re: "Flaky" astronomy question
A Few Questions - Take 2
RE: The Game "Elite"
RE: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Re: [CS] Question regarding PE economics
Re: Micro Jumps

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 10:28:01 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Trade Model

Happy New Year, Everyone!

Ian Whitchurch wrote:

>>   The base purchase price of all cargoes except raw materials
>> is computed as with the normal rules.

>No. The absolutely biggest beef I have with the vanilla trade
>system is that the prices of goods in the trade system does not
>fit with the prices of goods everywhere else.

[very useful examples snipped]

Actually, I have the purchase price for speculative cargo as:
Cargo size * Base purchase price * Price Multiplier
and the sale price is
Cargo size * base market value * Price multiplier * Actual value.

The price multiplier runs from .016 to 16. Average purchase
prices for manufactured goods on non-industrial HiPop worlds
should run in the 12-20 kCr per cargo ton range. (I take 1 cargo
ton= 1 m3)

Another effect is that I take prices as in the book or computed
using FFS as the prices which final consumers pay, or *retail*
prices. Starship cargos are generally carried at *wholesale*, so
that means something like half your prices right away. That's the
starship's selling price, and the purchase price is even lower
than that.

Based on your examples, my prices still seem a bit low, but
they're closer to the right order of magnitude.

There is also the possiblity that long-distance trade would be
carried, not as speculative cargo, but as *freight* at 1 kCr per
m3 per jump.  10 m3 TL-8 10 MW fission plants are not the kind of
thing that first leaps to mind when I think speculative trade
goods.

>Merchants now find that cash position becomes more important -
>you dont just need the next montly payment, you need ready
>access to a *large* amount of cash to act as a float for cargo
>purchases.

>If you are shipping goods across a subsector, it might be a
>while before that cargo turns into liquid cash, too. Financing
>becomes even more critical - your credit rating becomes like
>gold when you need an ability to borrow tens of megacredits for
>several months.

I figure a speculative free trader with less than a couple of MCr
on hand is going to be seriously cramped.  [A 50 ton cargo
running kCr 30 per ton isn't all that much of a rarity, and if
you're going somewhere it's very likely to fetch a good price,
you'll be sorry you couldn't afford it.]  Having even short-term
financing arrangements in place if you don't want to carry a
_lot_ of cash and you think you've really struck gold this time
might be useful.

>It isnt that they are money losers that gets me - it's the
>massive trade deficits being run by the lo-tech worlds that lead
>me to think that they system outlined is unsustainable.

   If you can expect to lose a few hundred credits a ton and not
make it up somewhere, you can expect to go out of business in
short order. Big trade deficits do still seem to be a problem.
   One thing that might help and still needs to be looked at is
the problem of price restraints. (Ever notice that under the
basic trade rules, very few high tech cargos are too expensive to
be sold at the destination?)  Another is the effect of
competition. (I'm at TL-8. Do I want a TL-12 Thingamabob from
World A for Cr 4800, or a TL-9 Thingamabob from World B for Cr
4000?)

>The trade system should be built so that there are no 'sure win'
>routes, because if any idiot can make money shipping stuff from
>A to B, then every idiot will be doing that, and prices at each
>end will react.

The price and competition factors again. But in this model you do
have to be a little savvier in choosing cargoes. It's easy to
lose money on a "profitable"  route if you carry the wrong thing.

>I'd like to see the details.

The writeup is longer than I expected, so rather than post it
here, I'll e-mail it as a DOS text file on request to:
Sapience@compuserve.com.

Before I do that, though, I hope I'm not trampling Marc's rights
if I include a few tables, some of them slightly modified, from
T4 and TNE.
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 10:52:49 -0500
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: availability of G:T (was Moderated List)

Rob Dean wrote:

> With a return to more mainstream Traveller (i.e. more CT-like) with GURPS, I'm
> dusting off my books and settling down for a bit of reading.  I hope to find a
> store with all of the GURPS Trav books available at one shot in the near future,
> but I expect I'll continue to use MT.
>
> Rob Dean
> (TML dinosaur, Traveller gamer since 1977)
> rsdean@erols.com

Rob,

I seem to recall you being located in the vicinity of Washington DC.  If this is indeed
true, you might want to check Dream Wizards, in Rockville.  Also, there's a hobby shop
in Laurel that has a wide range of GURPS, including some G:T hardbacks.

John

- --
"It's shite being a Jedi.  We're the lowest of the low..."
Ewan McGregor as the young Obi-Wan, Star Wars Episode 1

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 11:57:35 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: The Game "Elite"

At 12:21 AM 01/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Has anyone on the list played the game "Elite" that was on the Commodore
>64/128?
>
>It was kinda like Traveller without the roleplaying.  Just flying a ship
>with various weapons and docking with space stations, trading in cargos.
>
>--Clif
>

        I *loved* that game...  Landing on the stations was a bit tedious
until I could afford the automated landing system.  For a c64, the graphics
were vunderbar.

        If you enjoyed that game, I highly recommend the "Privateer" games
from Origin Games.  Set in the Wing Commander universe, and is a nice blend
of all the elements that made "Elite" so much fun.

        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:24:02 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Micro jumps

Leonard Erickson writes:
>In mail you write:
> 
>>Leonard Erickson writes:
>>
>>>H. Beam Piper had jumps take almost no time in realspace, but the folks
>>>on board ship experienced time during the jump... 
>>
>> What story is that? It sounds like one I don't know.
> 
>It's mentioned in passing in one of the Fuzzy books(They ask Jack
>Holloway how old he is, and he gives an answer and adds he hasn't a
>clue how much to allow for hyperspace differential), and it's
>explicitly mentioned in one of the other books (Space Viking?). And
>there may be other mentions. 

I think you're mistaken. Jack Holloway's remark shows that hyperspace
travel cause a discrepancy between chronological age and physiological
age, but I'm as sure as I can be without going home to check first that
the difference is the other way around, ie. that you age less while in
hyperdrive than the universe around you. As for Space Viking, the whole
"keeping track of Andray Dunnay" plot-line shows that it takes hyperships
a measuable time (at the universe's rate) to get from one place to another.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "Papazian  appeared,  disguised as a human being.  He
         checked  quickly  to  make sure that his head was on
         right.  'Nose  and  toes the same way goes,'  he re-
         minded himself, and that was how it was.
             All his systems were go. His psyche was soldered
         firmly to his pineal gland,  and he even had a small
         soul powered by flashlight batteries."
                                "Tripout" by Robert Sheckley

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 11:49:27 EST
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Re: availability of G:T (was Moderated List)

In a message dated 1/1/99 10:55:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, macek@erols.com
writes:

<< 
 Rob,
 
 I seem to recall you being located in the vicinity of Washington DC.  If this
is indeed
 true, you might want to check Dream Wizards, in Rockville.  Also, there's a
hobby shop
 in Laurel that has a wide range of GURPS, including some G:T hardbacks.
 
 John >>

	The Game Parlor in Chantillty VA (near Dulles airport) has the Gurps Trav
hardback and is pretty good about stocking GURPS stuff too (It is a great
store all around)
		Dave Nelson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 10:59:31 -0600
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com>
Subject: Astrogator 4

Astrogator 4.03.00 is up.

One bug fix in the Formula Compiler.

Alternate Tech Levels added so you can use a Tech Level system 
other than the one in Traveller ... like GURPS for instance.  The Alt 
TL is calculated on the fly and does not affect the current TL stored 
for the world.

Sector and Subsector Hex Addressing added to the Max Zoom 
Resolution.


- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)

- - Encrypt your messages!
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!

- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!

- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)

- - Fidelitas Supernus Totus, Absque Honor

- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.

Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
     http://www.felixcafe.com/

- - - -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 10:21:38 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

At 12:33 pm 1/1/99 +1000, you wrote:
>From: Mark Cook 
>> Ooh, ooh, I can just see the headlines now!  "Canned beef products and
>> penguins rain bloody death on Tel-Aviv.  Film at eleven!" :^) :^) Do
>> you suppose Ditzie will now become a high-profile target for Mossad
>> assassins? :^)
>
>Wouldn't canned pork be more dangerous?  How about Spam?

	NOOOOOOOOOO! NO MORE SPAM! PLEASE! ANYTHING BUT SPAM!
- -- ------------------------------------------------------------ --
   Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj 
   House for sale in Colorado Springs!
   http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 12:17:21 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Astrogator 4 

> Astrogator 4.03.00 is up.
> 
> One bug fix in the Formula Compiler.
> 
> Alternate Tech Levels added so you can use a Tech Level system 
> other than the one in Traveller ... like GURPS for instance.  The Alt 
> TL is calculated on the fly and does not affect the current TL stored 
> for the world.
> 
> Sector and Subsector Hex Addressing added to the Max Zoom 
> Resolution.

OK, where do we get this puppy, and what does it run on?

BTW, my ISP couldn't find your page in the DNS today.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 11:36:41 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

David J. Golden wrote:
> 
> At 12:33 pm 1/1/99 +1000, you wrote:
> >From: Mark Cook
> >> Ooh, ooh, I can just see the headlines now!  "Canned beef products and
> >> penguins rain bloody death on Tel-Aviv.  Film at eleven!" :^) :^)  Do
> >> you suppose Ditzie will now become a high-profile target for Mossad
> >> assassins? :^)
> >
> >Wouldn't canned pork be more dangerous?  How about Spam?
> 
>         NOOOOOOOOOO! NO MORE SPAM! PLEASE! ANYTHING BUT SPAM!

How about the strawberry tart?  That doesn't have any Spam.  Well, it's
got _some_ Spam in it....

ObTrav:  Can you imagine some AAB researcher's reaction upon finding
copies of Monty Python episodes?  "_This_ is the culture that brought
down the Ziru Sirka?!?"

> -- ------------------------------------------------------------ --
>    Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
>    House for sale in Colorado Springs!
>    http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:41:38 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Penguins Attack!

LOL!  That would have been a riot to see!

- --Clif

P.S.:  I propose we use our tax dollars to send penguins to flight or jump
school.  That way they can finally get their wings...  "Listen, mommy!
Teacher says, 'Everytime you hear a bell ring, a penguin gets its wings!'"

>And 20,000 penguins would fall on their asses simultaneously.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:44:48 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: "Flaky" astronomy question

Yeah, sounds like a definite "carrot" for the PC "donkeys" in anyone's
Traveller campaign.

- --Clif


I remember reading somewhere recently that astronomers have postulated that
a stellar remnant (ie dead star) would actually be a gigantic diamond (or
coated
in diamond, I can't remember which). Now here is my flaky question. Would
this be an accessable resource (could be mined) or would gravity and/or
radiation prevent this?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 10:57:33 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

At 06:47 pm 1/1/99 +1300, you wrote:
>
>.>Railgun projectiles are essentially ballistic, and
>>only a blind man or a crippled ship couldn't avoid one.
>
>BTW your ship is basically a blind man with respect to this
>projectile,  an unpowered kinetic projectile with a cross section of
>less than 2cm moving at 4Km/s  (current velocities, probably much
>faster in Traveller terms ) is almost impossible to detect in time
to
>react to it.

	I'll defer to Bruce Macintosh or somebody else with detailed sensor
knowledge for a clear analysis of detecting the railgun projectile.
I'll just point out:

	1) At TL7, we routinely detect and track objects on the same order
of size. Granted, it's not an instantaneous detect, but we've got
plenty of time here (see #3 ...).

	2) The ship *firing* the projectile will be detectable, which means
that 
		a) I'm aware of the risk of being fired on by railgun
		b) I know exactly where to concentrate at least one of my sensors
to be certain of detecting the projectile. Again, Bruce can tell you
how much your chances of detecting a small object go when you switch
your sensor from scanning the full sky to focusing on a patch a few
arcseconds across. All I remember from the discussion is it's a big
increase.

	3) At 4 km/s and space combat ranges (30,000 to 300,000km in TNE, or
1/10 to 1ls), you have plenty of time (2 hrs to 21 hours ...) to
detect damn near anything. Further, at the closer ranges where we
have less time, it's easier to detect anyway ...

	4) Targeting your ballistic (non-maneuvering) projectile so it will
hit a maneuvering target 2+ hours later is pointless. Even *if* I
don't know you're there (because you're far enough away for stealth
to help), and don't know I'm being fired on, and I'm on a purely
unpowered trajectory because I'm in no hurry to get anywhere, the
slightest course correction on my part will cause it to miss.

>Dodging the projectiles is really not an option.

	Why not? I can detect it far enough out, and I've got *hours* in
which to maneuver. The *only* way you can get a cloud big enough to
hit me is to be close enough/have them moving fast enough and have a
spread such that at 1/2 a*t^2, I can't clear the cloud, and I can't
vaporize them with lightspeed weaponry. A ROF800 laser can tag quite
a few...

	I can only see railguns being useful IF

	(a) You use unrealistically short sensor ranges.
	(b) You chop the traditional Traveller weapons ranges down to match,
so your ship can get close enough without being slagged by lightspeed
weapons.
	(c) You severely limit maneuverability.

	This is against spacecraft, of course. Railguns become slightly more
useful against space stations nobody bothered to give an evasive
capability, and as planetary bombardment weapons.


*** Appendix A: DSR Signature and Detection Calculations ***
using
http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/house/sensor.rules.html

I don't have a can of ravioli available, so I'll sustitute a 15 1/4
oz can of Del Monte Sweet Peas

	- 112mm high by 74mm dia = 0.112m x 0.074m. Total area  0.035m^2.
Active sig -1
	- Power output: 0MW. Passive sig -2.5

	Assuming military vessel with 15 passive, 12.5 active sensitivity.
Automatic detection via passive out to far orbit (500,000km).
Automatic detection via active out to planetary range (50,000km).
- -- ------------------------------------------------------------ --
   Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj 
   House for sale in Colorado Springs!
   http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 12:58:43 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun 

> ObTrav:  Can you imagine some AAB researcher's reaction upon finding
> copies of Monty Python episodes?  "_This_ is the culture that brought
> down the Ziru Sirka?!?"

Dammit, I lost my coffee on that one.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 19:35:01 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: "Flaky" astronomy question

It would be a black dwarf ie a white dwarf that has cooled down. It
wouldn't be particularly useful as any reasonably high TL culture could
easily snthesize diamond in any amount from carbon.


/Anders Backman
Game developer and Lead Kibitzer at Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 13:44:12 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: "Flaky" astronomy question

Unless you could turn it into the lense of one helluva big laser!

- --Clif


>It would be a black dwarf ie a white dwarf that has cooled down. It
>wouldn't be particularly useful as any reasonably high TL culture could
>easily snthesize diamond in any amount from carbon.
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 14:10:33 -0500
From: Kevin Combs <beast013@flash.net>
Subject: A Few Questions - Take 2

These may have been asked before, but what the hey....

1) GDW went belly-up before the third and final part of their novel
trilogy was finished (Death of Wisdom and To Dream of Chaos being parts
one and two).  Was the third part ever published?  If not, are there
plans to do so (release electronically, etc.)?

2) I've noticed a lot of subsector files on web sites stored as files
(gif, jpg, etc.).  What program would anyone recommend to
drawn/plot/save subsectors (to put on a web page for example)?

3) Has anyone every converted the Azhanti High Lightning-class cruiser
or the Judge's Guild Dranke Station into Brilliant Lance stats?

Thanks in advance.



- --
"We should have freed the slaves, then fired on Fort Sumter."
General James Longstreet

Kevin Combs
Columbia, MD

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 19:23:49 -0000
From: "MindShift Design" <mindshift@usa.net>
Subject: RE: The Game "Elite"

Hi everyone

this is my first post on the list as I've just joined up.

>         I *loved* that game...  Landing on the stations was a bit tedious
> until I could afford the automated landing system.  For a c64,
> the graphics
> were vunderbar.

Elite was a great game. The original author Ian Bell has now allowed the
game to be downloaded direct from the web at the following site. There are
various versions of it. You can download it from
http://people.netcom.co.uk/i.bell/elite/Default.html along with the HTML
version of the origanal manual. I still have a BBC B and the original Elite
<g>.


>         If you enjoyed that game, I highly recommend the "Privateer" games
> from Origin Games.  Set in the Wing Commander universe, and is a
> nice blend
> of all the elements that made "Elite" so much fun.

Privateer II is far more in-depth I've found. When I get some time playing I
can really get into the game. Unfortunately though, I'm usually too busy
working to play too many other games ...

Regards

Jason Paul McCartan
MindShift Design
Game Developers
 "Altering Perceptions, Creating Worlds"

Home to the PBM/PBeM Developers Webring

email: mindshift@usa.net
website: http://members.xoom.com/mindshift

ICQ #: 16802661
AIM: Japem

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 19:35:36 -0000
From: "MindShift Design" <mindshift@usa.net>
Subject: RE: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM
> [mailto:owner-traveller@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM]On Behalf Of SD Mooney
> Sent: Friday, January 01, 1999 2:42 PM
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
>
>
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net> wrote:
>
> >>  PC owners who can run hypercard stacks
> >
> >How?
> >
> >I have some stacks I really would like to use.
> >
> >Evyn...
>
> Erm, a while ago someone mentioned a Mac Emulator for Windows which worked
> well enough to run Infini-V (Doug?), and there was a limited freeware
> release. In addition, ISTR someone mentioning an expensive PC package (500
> GBP plus) which could convert or run them. But I haven't got the
> references
> anymore.
>
> Myst was based on Hypercard so there must be something out there...
>
> Has anyone looked into this?

The problem with Mac emulation on a PC is the ROM. Unless you own the Mac in
question it's illegal to use the ROM from a Mac in software form on your PC.
This applies to BBC, Atari, Amiga etc emulation as well - a familiar
argument that rages with the MAME emulation of arcade games.

There is a Mac emulator called VMac that allows you that comes with OS
6.0-ish of the Mac Os, and includes the hypercard software. AFAIK it reads
PC disks as Mac disks, so you should be able to access your files - even
save them on a PC disk in a Mac machine. The URL for it is
http://www.vmac.org . I have a local copy of the emulation software. If
anyone emails me direct I can forward it to them.

Regards

Jason Paul McCartan
MindShift Design
Game Developers
 "Altering Perceptions, Creating Worlds"

Home to the PBM/PBeM Developers Webring

email: mindshift@usa.net
website: http://members.xoom.com/mindshift

ICQ #: 16802661
AIM: Japem

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 11:37:13 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: [CS] Question regarding PE economics

>From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: [CS] Question regarding PE economics
...
>I've noticed the same problem, and your notion of restricting
>trading partners seems to be a good idea. I'd look at ruling that
>SomeWhere needs to have at least 5% of Powerhouse's GDP before
>SomeWhere can be considered a significant trading partner of
>Powerhouse.

  Of all places, Starfire Empires had a rule early on that the advantage
of trade was a percentage (~10%, IIRC) increase in both economies, but
that the size of the smaller was the limit to the amount of the larger 
that could be involved in the transaction.

 I.E. - pocket empire of 50 RU and minor world of 5 RU; both gain 0.5 RU
to their production as long as the relationship remains, and 45 RU of the
PE is still available to seek other markets to become involved with.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 11:37:18 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Micro Jumps

>From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
>Subject: Re: Micro Jumps
...
>> >H. Beam Piper had jumps take almost no time in realspace, but the folks
>> >on board ship experienced time during the jump...
>
>Nope, the figure given in Space Vikings was a Ly an Hour, time ran thesame
>for both. In empire he mentions faster drives.

  IIRC from checking the novels the last time this came up, and from posts
of research by others on the Piper list:

 1) there were significant discrepancies with earlier hyperdrive speeds, but
ISTR references that make the passage of shipboard time explicitly evident.

 2) time appears to be pretty much 1:1 at 1 c-y/hour by the Space Viking era.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1345
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 1 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1346



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Emperor's Vehicles
SJG TNS: The Plot thickens...
Re: GURPS Traveller Character
Re: GURPS Traveller Character
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
RE: Why you should need more than Merchant for G:T Merchants
Re: GURPS Traveller Character
What I Want In Traveller Software
Re: Astrogator 4
Re: Ravioli Gun
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
Brits in Space.
Re: Railguns
Re: A Few Questions - Take 2
Re: Emperor's Vehicles
re: Sofware for download

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 11:49:23 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Emperor's Vehicles

AveNelso@aol.com wrote:

>          An I missing something?

Yep, armour is points an' Damage is dice.

> Are the damage ratings in T4 not on the same scale
> as the armor ratings in the Vehicles books?   --I also think it was kind of
> cheap not to include weapon stats for the weapons mounted on the vehicles,
> when those weapons did not appear in other books (plasma autocannon?).  They
> could have put the Tech levels for the vehicles on the card as well.

You could say that about a lot of T4s products.

Evyn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 21:09:03 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: SJG TNS: The Plot thickens...

When i was browsing the SJG Traveller pages, i noticed 
two new TNS messages. The plot thickens, it seems....

Also there: More details on GT:Star Mercs...
Volker
- ---
Volker A. Greimann, greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 21:19:12 +0100
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Character

> From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
>     ps 29 skills in this one.  Man, I'm starting to think that 30+
>     skills is par for GURPS!

29? Pah. The characters in my current 150 points (+ ~15 experience) campaign
have 28, 48 and 139 respectively distinctive skills (defaults removed...)
(The one with 139 is a converted character in my recently restarted campaign
who in a slightly non-standard T4 chargen system had 4 careers (thrown out
of them all), and ended up with JOT4. When he was converted GT was not even
a gleam in SJ's eye, and I figured the best way to handle converting JOT was
to give him lots of skills at low levels, in an essentially random way. We
had a lot of fun coming up with explanations for why/how the same character
could have, to mention only a few, Micropaleontology, Semaphore,
Nuclear-Biological-Chemical Warfare, Stone Knapping and Filch. Clearly, his
career was as interesting as the dicerolls in the T4 character creation
seemed to indicate. Of the four previously mentioned skills it seems he
might get a chance to *use* Semaphore in play. He doesn't have much hope for
the rest... ;-)

But bragging rights aside (;-) the average gurps character in my campaigns
does seem to have about 30-40 skills, with simple fantasy fighters (*simple*
being the operative word. As in 'unbelievably stupid') sometimes getting
along with as few as 10-15. Mages/scientists generally go hog-wild in the
skill-lists. (Of course, this is probably influenced by me (the GM)
genuinely disliking one-skill-johnnies, so I encourage players to take more
skills.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 21:29:25 +0100
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Character

>From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
>>Eris did speaketh thusly:
>> Man, I'm starting to think that 30+ skills is par for GURPS!
>It is. Actually, it can get worse than that. Character points are limited
to
>2 times the character's age ... but not the number of skills. Since GURPS
>gives a player the ability to give a character 1/2 point in a skill, this
>means that a potential munchkin can have 4x his age in skills ... *very*
>annoying.

Dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks I guess. Me, I find the other two main
munchkin baits in Gurps far more irritating.
To wit:
The Stat Monster. (High DX and IQ, default everything at ridiculously high
levels.)
One-Skill-Johnny. (One or two *reelly c00l* skills at 25+. In fantasy games
Deathtouch is a classic, in modern/sf campaigns Guns & Fast-Draw are
common.)

>I'll stick with FUDGE. :-)

And I with GURPS. ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:11:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

In mail you write:

> The problem is twofold in traveller;
>
> First, any manuverable craft can 'get out of the way' of any 'ballistic'
> (that is, non-manuvering) object as long as it has time to change velocity
> to be one creftlength away from its projected posistion.  A 1g vessel can
> move 10 meters in the first second of acceleration from it projected
> location, so if the range at which the projectile is fired is less than a
> light second (200k km?), and the vessel is larger than 20 meters in all
> surface dimensions, a hit is probably likely (Yes, I'm simplifying).
> Increase acceleration, making a hit gets harder.  Decrease surface area,
> making a hit gets harder.
>
> Other assumptions; the projectile can be sensed at 1 ls by the target, the
> projectile can be accelerated to .9c.
>
> Second, assuming the projectile is the size of a can of, say, chefboyardee
> ravioli (beef), any laser can pretty much pick it off.  The projectile is
> not manuvering and has a course that is perfectly predictable, and an
> aspect which is not changing much.  Tie your point defense laser into a
> computer and you can hit the thing, every time.
>
> At that point you can start asking about the fragments of tin can and meat
> byproducts which, if they can retain the same vector, can be as damaging as
> the whole can.  It is likely, however, that a projectile sufficiently small
> that the energy can be generated to accelerate it to near-C can be
> generated by another ship, will be vaoprized by the smallest of Traveller
> lasers weapons, and the vaporized particles would have many different
> vectors and in any case be smaller than one needs to worry about, in
> general.

Not true. At .9 c, time is passing for the can at .44 the rate it is
for you. That means that if you nail it 1 second from impact, the
pieces only get to spread for .44 seconds. At .99 c, they only get to
spread for .14 seconds. 

v	tau
- ----	---
.9	.435
.99	.141
.999	.0447
.9999	.0141

And the "vector spread" you are talking about has to be *added* to the
existing vector. Thus, you change from a compact mass following a line,
to a more spread out mass following a narrow cone. And at most of those
velocities, the impact will be as if you got hit by the mother of all
particle beams.

> This subject has been "done to death" in various forms, but basically this
> weapon too will fail if the target can manuver or fire point defense.

The target has to be able to *detect* the projectile in time as well.
Detecting an "ultra black" stealth contoured 1 kg projectile isn't
easy. But at a high enough velocity, such a projectile can ruin your
whole day.

My favorite setup for railguns is against ships with limited delta-V
(rockets of one sort or another) that are in a Hohmann transfer orbit.
You use your large "fixed installation" railguns to fire projectiles
with a spread of velocities (so they all arrive at the same time, but
spread evenly over the target area) at the point where the ships have
to be when they get there. 

The ships can either use up precious delta-V changing course (which
means they'll *miss* their destination by *millions* of km) or they can
sit there and hope that nothing hits them.

They can try dodging, then using even more fuel to correct back to the
required vector. But there's a limit to how many times they can do
that. Especially since they *have* to reserve enough delta-v to match
orbits with their destination once they get there. 

If you eliminate the "magic" thruster plates, and try to keep the
reaction drives from getting *too* efficient, and folks moving between
planets in the same system are *very* vulnerable to this sort of long
range sniping. 

Sure, most shots will miss. But if even *one* hits, given the closing
velocity of the ship and projectile (likely in the hundreds of km/sec)
you've got *at least* a mission kill. More likely an *actual* kill. 

At ~95 km/sec a one ton projectile releases a kiloton of energy on
impact. Given that the ship is likely moving at 30-40 km/sec, that
means that the mass dtiver has to boost the projectile to ~55-65
km/sec. 

And a one tonne chunk of iron is a sphere 62 cm in diameter. More
likely would be a paraboloid (rounded cone) shape. Spin it to enhance
stability and to help even out the temp. You'll actually *want* it to
have a mirror finish, simply because that keeps it cool, and aids in
radar stealth (it reflects the radar away from the receiver). 

Signature would be *very* low. Ships might not be able to detect even
large groups of such projectiles until it was too late. And, as I noted
above, they've got a choice between hoping they aren't hit and burning
fuel they need to keep getting stuck in an orbit that won't get them
*anywhere* before their life support runs out. Not a good set of choices.

Mas drivers can also be used to bombard planets and orbital facilities
(things that can't readily dodge) from *extreme* ranges.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:45:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

In mail you write:

>> From: Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>> Subject: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
>
> <Snip everything>
>
> Why can you not lead the target?  I mean if it will work with the mk1
> eyeball & mgs in WWII, then would it not work with supercomputers & rapid
> firing rail guns?

Because at the ranges involved in WWII speed of light lag was
essentially non-existent. 

But in space combat, you have to figure speed of light lag in. *And*
the "flight time" of the projectiles is *much* longer.

At 1 light second, you know where the opponent was 1 second ago. And
even if you are using a laser (which also moves at the speed of light,
just like the radar or whatever you are using to track the guy with)
*another* second will have passed by the time the beam gets there.

That means that you have to aim at where you hope the guy will be in 2
seconds. If he can accelerate at one g, then in 2 seconds the center of
his ship can be *anywhere* in sphere 20 meters across, centered on
where it would have been if he'd merely coasted (from your viewpoint
the sphere is a bit distorted). 

Now consider something like a *reasonable* railgun projectile. It's not
moving anywhere *near* the speed of light. Let's be generous and say it
moves at 1000 km/sec. 

That means that it takes 300 seconds to cross 1 light second. That's
*five minutes*. At 1 g, in 300 seconds, he can have altered his
position by as much as 450 kilometers. You'll only hit him if he
*doesn't* manuever, or if you get lucky. 

> Plus by your own admission, then you might as well not arm your
> starships...  As any weapon you put on it, will not be able to hit its
> target no matter what you do...  If your target is say 1 ls out (c. 300,000
> km) then 3 second delay in targeting...  One second to get there, one
> second for the pulse to return, & one second for the beam laser to hit... 

No, see above. The returning pulse tells you where he was one second
ago. It doesn't matter that it took a second to get there. And as I
noted, the position changes for a 2 second lag is only 20 meters at 1
g. So if his ship is more than 20 meters in the smallest dimension a
hit is *certain*. If one or more dimensions are smaller than 20 meters,
whether or not you hit depends on *how* he manuevered.

> This is not including time to bring the laser on target, etc.  And missiles
> now become almost useless, as they would travel much slower than a slug
> from a rail gun...  By the time a missle gets close enough to its target,
> the target is gone...  So what is the use of weapons systems then?

Missiles can correct their aim as they go. If they see that the target
is moving to the left, they can steer to the left. At least until they
run out of fuel. 

Railguns are only useful against targets that can't manuever, or at
*very* short ranges. 

I *really* have to write that spaceflight simulator, and then add
combat to it...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 22:18:47 +0100
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: RE: Why you should need more than Merchant for G:T Merchants

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>

First off, I agree with you. My arguments are to help the poor gm that in a
fit of weakness has allowed a Monster in his campaign. (Whether it be a Stat
Monster, Reaction Monster, Skill Monster, or something else.)

>20 points for Merchant(21) ... Admin defaults to Merchant-3 (18 - toss in
>another 2 points to buy it to 19), Accounting defaults to Merchant-5 (16,
>add 2 points to take it to 17), Economics defaults to Merchant-6 (15, add 2
>points for 16).
>46 points so far, and we have 4 skills at Expert or better.
>Add 12 points in Diplomacy at 16, a token 2 points in Handgun-13, and 5
>points in miscellaneous skills.

Let's see. All this make him just shy of 33 years old, with a sum total of
4000 hours' worth of education by a *master* merchant. (8000 hours of
self-education, or 16000 hours of on the job training. For merchant alone.)
The discrepancies between the time spent on Merchant and time spent on the
other econimics skills seems less than believable from a training point of
view. ("You spent 80 weeks training Merchant full time and *8* on
Accounting?")

Me, I wouldn't let this character through. A character that's spent ~90% of
his waking hours at fulfilling a single job just isn't human. Unless,
perhaps, he bought 'Obsession: Become the Greatest Merchant In The World'
at -15 points. Or is a robot.

Obvious munchkin material like this one should also, of course, expect a
*lot* less slack (in particular when it comes to defaults and missing
skills) from the gm than a well-designed interesting character. Or maybe the
gm should simply start running combat-heavy adventures for a while. ;-)

>Add a 100 point, available 15- Bodyguard-type Ally (30 points)

Which is - thank god - an NPC. Meaning that it should be played by the GM
and *not* the player. Especially not a player with such obvious munchkinoid
tendencies. (Note that a good explanation would be needed for how such a
studious merchant as this met and *befriended* a Bodyguard-type Ally. I
think the 'wildly different background' clause at the end of the second
paragraph of B24 applies here. Also, the entire 'GMing the Ally' section on
B24 is good reading.)

> <real minimaxers buy a 75 point Lawyer as a 'zero cost dependant' as
well>.

And the GM should then have said character (which is a Friend that appears
on a 9 or less *each session* (B38)) do something legally inappropriate
while 'trying to help', and be discovered, so the pc must try to get his
'friend' out of trouble. This *is* a dependant. Not a free Ally. See the end
of the second paragraph on B38.)

>Add Very Wealthy (30 points), and get Status-1 for free

> (if the GM allows Temp Wealth, go for Temp Filthy Rich and pay for the
Status).

The GM should then note that according to Gurps rules (which should be
played by strictly, when dealing with munchkins. Slack is for roleplayers.
;-) the character spends 40 hours/week maintaining his job. This does *not*
include adventuring. Also, if the character gets 'Wealthy', 'Very Wealthy'
job (such as, say, Master Merchant), he'd only get a fraction of the pay a
'Very Wealthy' pc would get. (Somewhat broken rule, I know, but if the
munchin abuses the good parts, he should get hit with the bad parts too...
;-)

>5 quirks and 20 points of disads (Combat Paralysis and a 5 point Enemy
>sounds good ... a 5 point delusion 'OK in combat' sounds better) rounds it
>out to 100 points.

Combat Paralysis? He he he. At least the munchkin leabves the gm a good way
of getting rid of it. ;-) Unlikely in a real munchkin, but still fun. ;-)

>Now, this is a pretty damn gross Economics Monster.

Amen. Which just shows that the *MOST IMPORTANT RULE IN THE BOOK* is the
second paragraph of B177...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:22:43 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Character

Joseph R. Dietrich said:
>>It is. Actually, it can get worse than that. Character points are limited
>to
>>2 times the character's age ... but not the number of skills. Since GURPS
>>gives a player the ability to give a character 1/2 point in a skill, this
>>means that a potential munchkin can have 4x his age in skills ... *very*
>>annoying.


Jonas Karlsson said:

>Dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks I guess. Me, I find the other two main
>munchkin baits in Gurps far more irritating.
>To wit:
>The Stat Monster. (High DX and IQ, default everything at ridiculously high
>levels.)
>One-Skill-Johnny. (One or two *reelly c00l* skills at 25+. In fantasy games
>Deathtouch is a classic, in modern/sf campaigns Guns & Fast-Draw are
>common.)


So what if a character has a million skills? Many of the harder skills will
be low, and the easier skills will be just above default. I'm not sure that
I see a problem with a tiny bit of knowledge in a large number of skills.
This doesn't unbalance the game at all, especially not Traveller with its
Jack O' Trades skill. I'm not sure that I follow why there's reason to be
annoyed. The character may have a great number of skills, but the same PC is
a master at none. Big deal...

There are people in real life who know a little bit about a wide number of
skills.

Now, as to the "one-skill Johnny", a good GM can work around this by making
that one skill of limited use or utility... Or, then again maybe the
character is really good with handguns. So what? There are plenty of people
in real life who were or are aces with handguns. In the American Wild West
there were several legendary shootists, Wyatt Earp leaps to mind (most of it
was practice not "experience," before he was involved in the shootout at the
O.K. Corral he was only involved in one shootout, hence a legit starting
character).

Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:38:18 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: What I Want In Traveller Software

    There are a lot of really good Traveller programs for creating sectors
out there. But none of them do the one thing I would really like to do.

You see, I have long wanted to make my own version of the Foreven Sector. I
have the map out of that MT newsletter, and the specific UWP info for those
worlds that were already done for it. What I would like is a sector or
subsector program that lets you CHOOSE the map locations of the system and
THEN generates the UWP info for the world located there. That way I could
input the locations of the worlds and let the program "roll them up" for me.
I would also like the UWP's-and all world information-to be editable, so I
can go in and manually add the worlds that have already been detailed in
their proper places.

Anyone think they could do something like this?

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 15:52:05 -0600
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com>
Subject: Re: Astrogator 4

> > Astrogator 4.03.00 is up.
> > 
> > One bug fix in the Formula Compiler.
> > 
> > Alternate Tech Levels added so you can use a Tech Level system 
> > other than the one in Traveller ... like GURPS for instance.  The Alt TL
> > is calculated on the fly and does not affect the current TL stored for
> > the world.
> > 
> > Sector and Subsector Hex Addressing added to the Max Zoom 
> > Resolution.
> 
> OK, where do we get this puppy, and what does it run on?
> 
> BTW, my ISP couldn't find your page in the DNS today.

Win95/NT

http://www.felixcafe.com/gurps

or 

http://209.39.36.25/gurps/

I need some input on this program.  It does a lot, but I am sure it 
could do more.

If anybody has suggestions, please state exactly what it is you are 
wanting, how you want it presented and email it to me.  I'll then see 
what I can do.


- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)

- - Encrypt your messages!
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!

- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!

- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)

- - Fidelitas Supernus Totus, Absque Honor

- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.

Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
     http://www.felixcafe.com/

- - - -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 14:00:57 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

David J. Golden wrote:

>         NOOOOOOOOOO! NO MORE SPAM! PLEASE! ANYTHING BUT SPAM!

Poor spam, so maligned. Ever tried a spam califonia roll?

Evyn...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 15:13:03 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

 
> 	(a) You use unrealistically short sensor ranges.
> 	(b) You chop the traditional Traveller weapons ranges down to match,
> so your ship can get close enough without being slagged by lightspeed
> weapons.
> 	(c) You severely limit maneuverability.
 
They can work also against targets that:

	(D) _Are_ not maneuvering.
	(E) _Can_ not maneuver.
	(F) Don't have working sensors.

So if you want to arm your ships to attack only crippled targets, or
lazy ones, go ahead :-)

What I typically see in the arguements against a given technology
being useful is the notion that if it isn't a good weapon under
whatever conditions, it isn't _ever_ a good weapon. I'm all in favor
of rules for things like railguns, but military ships (or others
that bother to take any precautions) at higher TLs can defeat them
easily (to the point that they are useless).

I kind of like the idea that you might find (first contact kinda
stuff) a world that has space travel, maybe even jump, but never got
reactionless drives. Give them realistic reaction drives, and
railguns start looking better as weapons. Sure an Imperial Destroyer
might take over the entire star system all by itself, but it's a
neat flavor kind of addition.

In the case of railguns (at 4km/s it'd take 2 hours for a projectile
to reach a target 0.1ls away (1 hex in TNE)) they are not good
weapons for the reasons Dave states. On the other hand, if a low TL
navy decides to attack a higher TL force that is unaware of their
use of these weapons, they might get a single good use with
surprise.

> 	This is against spacecraft, of course. Railguns become slightly more
> useful against space stations nobody bothered to give an evasive
> capability, and as planetary bombardment weapons.
 
Yeah. I'm not sure a BigAss(tm) missile (KKM) wouldn't be just as
good against these kinds of targets. Put enough armor on it, and PD
lasers have to ablate the sucker away to do any good...

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 17:19:17 -0800
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Brits in Space.

Ok, let's try this again, only this time with the URL!

Here is a T4 character I created as an exercise in character creation.
He's a "Brit in Space".  I did this after all the complaints about "Yanks
in Space."

http://www.ma.ultranet.com/~eclipse/SV/TRAV/bunny.shtml



- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 09:43:30
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Railguns

>From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
>
>.>Railgun projectiles are essentially ballistic, and
>>only a blind man or a crippled ship couldn't avoid one.
>
>BTW your ship is basically a blind man with respect to this
>projectile,  an unpowered kinetic projectile with a cross section of
>less than 2cm moving at 4Km/s  (current velocities, probably much
>faster in Traveller terms ) is almost impossible to detect in time to
>react to it.
>

Bullshit. What you are talking about is detecting a small rogue body. At
4km/s, we need to detect it at the distance of about 25 km.

This with starship sensors designed to detect other starships at a range of
several light-seconds.

Then, of course, there are active sensors. Me, I put my trust in firepower,
so my ships tend to go active in combat.

>And, of course the above argument completely misses the fact that
>railguns are _cheap_ in comparison to missiles beam weapons etc.

They are ? Even railguns firing large clouds of projectiles ? Care to
design a couple using FFS2 ?

Factor in the power plant providing the power, and then convince me it's a
better way of hurting the enemy than lasers or det-laser missiles.

>
>Your blind ship may luckily detect and avoid _one_ such projectile,
>what if we throw five
>thousand at you a minute in a cloud ?
>(Yes, you'll probably detect the cloud before it spreads )

The power demand for 5000 projectiles will be sufficiently high that you
should go for a laser instead.

>
>The _only_ real defense against rail guns is _very_ thick armour
> planetoid or several metres
>concrete or a foot or two of modern spaced armour ) or a black globe.
>Dodging the projectiles is really not an option.

Dodge some, lase the others.

>
>The major reason rail gun usage  would be limited is that the
>projectile doesn't care _whose_ ship it hits.  OK if you stay "in line
>of battle" like ancient sailing ships, but damn dangerous if the
>battle turns into a rolling 3D dog fight.

Space is big. Real big. When weapons go out to more than 100 000 km,
combats tend not to have time to become rolling 3D dogfights.

And if they do, then lasers are within cant-miss range, so ships tend to
get their surfaces scrubbed in short order (lasers cant hurt anything
inside a ship with decent armour, but they still do a good sandblasting job
on the surface).

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 16:22:34 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: A Few Questions - Take 2

Kevin Combs wrote:
> 
> These may have been asked before, but what the hey....
> 

> 2) I've noticed a lot of subsector files on web sites stored as files
> (gif, jpg, etc.).  What program would anyone recommend to
> drawn/plot/save subsectors (to put on a web page for example)?

On my web site (http:///u.arizona.edu/~bjohnson/tprogs.html) I have the C
source for a program (sub2ps) that takes in a subsector listing (in it's own
format, sadly, different from the archived sector data) and will generate a
PostScript subsector map that looks quite good, publication quality.

I also have a QBasic prgram that chews up the online sector data files and
spits out subsectors in the correct format for this program.

The sub2ps program is pretty standard ANSI C, so it ought to compile on just
about anything.

If you haven't got a graphics program that reads PS files (like Illustrator),
or a PostScript printer handy, you can get Ghostscript:

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/index.html

which is a PostScript interpreter for non-postscript systems, you can print or
view files, even turn them into Adobe Acrobat documents. Versions of
Ghostscript are available for a variety of platforms.

Nifty stuff.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 19:06:01 EST
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Re: Emperor's Vehicles

In a message dated 1/1/99 3:02:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
wmacdude@concentric.net writes:

<< 
 Yep, armour is points an' Damage is dice.
  >>
	Is that just in Emperor's vehicles?   It certainly is not that way in Core
Rule Book and Central Supply Catalogue.   In those books Armor is dice, and
you only roll points after hit penetrates (and then only against
people--vehicles just take location hits.)  In fact there are no "hit points"
for vehicles, despite what Core Rule book implied.  
	So, If I fire heavy plasma cannon against 100 armor tank I roll 89 dice and
subtract 100, and roll on the damage location chart. (say I rolled 200 points
of damage 100 points get through---using Supply Catalouge, that would work its
way through a lot of systems). 
	 While in this case that would sound about right,  however that's not how the
rules read:  When a damage rating 5 rifle (=5 dice) hits the power plant of an
armored car with an armor of 2, 3 points got through the armor...the system
failure dm is twice penetration +4.  (Central Suppy Catalogue p75).
	Should we then divide armor ratings of Emperor's Vehicles by 3.5  to get
'real" armor rating that works with combat system?

	Dave Nelson 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 00:04:35 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Sofware for download

jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin) wrote:

>Folks, two favors, if you please:

Go on....

>First:
>For a number of reasons, Freelance Traveller has chosen to make
>its Computer Connection links directly to the file, rather than
>asking our readers to rummage your site (often, there are no
>clear directions to find the file - I've had to guess at some,
>and I don't have a good record for first guesses.  This can be
>frustrating).  Some of you have gotten into the habit of
>including the version number in the file name.  This is bad,
>because it means that you have to notify us when you release a
>new version, so that we can update the URL.  Can you say "broken
>links"?  The best thing to do is to keep the file name
>consistent, without version numbers.  Especially if, like me, you
>don't always have time to update the web pages when you upload
>the software.

But it is a lot harder to keep track of versions without this. Especially
if you can't open the software on your platform. As a result I haven't
changed the webpage location for the material I'm hosting since my site
went up. If you point to Rob Prior's software at

http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/RPS.html

I will keep that URL the only one. I cannot guarantee that version numbers
will not change with the software (eg Andrew M-V's Pocket Empires material
at BITS), as in some cases I cannot open the software to read/check the
version as it runs on those 78rpm PC thingees.

>Second:
>Somebody wanna write a review of some of the software in the
>Computer Connection?

Would love to, but I can only do Mac Stuff here, and as I host Rob's stuff
and run the BITS software side on his behalf I am not exactly unbiased...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1346
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 1 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1347



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: ACQ and Penguins
re: Emperor's Vehicles
A Few Questions - Take 2
RE: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Re: Emperor's Vehicles
Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
RE: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Striker: Missile Guidance systems - fixes? I
Re: DSR (Was Re: Traveller World Building)
Re: [CS] Question regarding PE economics
Re: What I Want In Traveller Software
Re: A Few Questions - Take 2
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
Traveller & FUDGE
Re: SJG TNS: The Plot thickens...
HEPlaR (was: Re: DSR...) 
Striker - APC (TL 8)
Re: GURPS characters and skills
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1339
Re: Ravioli Gun
Re: G:T Merchant

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:58:08 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: ACQ and Penguins

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote:

>SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes:
>>BTW must add the text saying 'No penguins were harmed....' to the credits.
>>And tell James to hide the wrappers. Do we need an indirect fire diagram
>>for penguins?
>
>Your penguins come in wrappers?  We have to wrap our's in last week's
>G&M... :-)

Of course they do. In Britain we're civilised. None of this rough colonial
living, thank you very much. ;-)

Anyway, without wrappers the chocolate would go everywhere when they melt.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 00:09:19 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Emperor's Vehicles

AveNelso@aol.com wrote:

>	I bought The Emperor's Vehicles book for T4 just after I wrapped up
>my last
>Traveller Campaign, and I was a little surprised by the armor values on some
>of the vehicles, especially when compared with the Weapon ratings given in
>Emperor's Arsenal and Central Supply Catalog.

Emperor's Vehicles is, unfortunately, seriously flawed. Unless you are
called Leroy, in which case it is an excellent example of IG's work at
giving the referee scope to expand the material.

>	An I missing something?  Are the damage ratings in T4 not on the
>same scale
>as the armor ratings in the Vehicles books?   --I also think it was kind of
>cheap not to include weapon stats for the weapons mounted on the vehicles,
>when those weapons did not appear in other books (plasma autocannon?).  They
>could have put the Tech levels for the vehicles on the card as well.

p59 of CSC has some plasma cannons, but no autocannons. I'm afraid the book
is a bad un - if you want I'm sure we can give you a lowdown on the T4
material worth getting...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 00:19:27 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: A Few Questions - Take 2

Kevin Combs <beast013@flash.net> wrote:

>2) I've noticed a lot of subsector files on web sites stored as files
>(gif, jpg, etc.).  What program would anyone recommend to
>drawn/plot/save subsectors (to put on a web page for example)?

Adobe's PDF format is what I would recommend. Looks and prints the same
across platforms. There's an example of the Sylea Subsector in M0 on the
BITS site in the Archive page.

http://www.bits.org.uk/

Then click on Archive.

You'll need the Acrobat Reader (free from http://www.adobe.com/ )

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 00:24:05 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: RE: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

"MindShift Design" <mindshift@usa.net> wrote:

>The problem with Mac emulation on a PC is the ROM. Unless you own the Mac in
>question it's illegal to use the ROM from a Mac in software form on your PC.
>This applies to BBC, Atari, Amiga etc emulation as well - a familiar
>argument that rages with the MAME emulation of arcade games.

But with the Atari you could use a TOS replacement front end - eg MagicMac,
MagicPC, Gemulator - to emulate an STe on a PC/Mac.... The MagicMac demo
(even the German one) let me use some of Dave Burden's Traveller ST
software on a PowerBook with no real problems.

>There is a Mac emulator called VMac that allows you that comes with OS
>6.0-ish of the Mac Os, and includes the hypercard software. AFAIK it reads
>PC disks as Mac disks, so you should be able to access your files - even
>save them on a PC disk in a Mac machine. The URL for it is
>http://www.vmac.org . I have a local copy of the emulation software. If
>anyone emails me direct I can forward it to them.

This is the software someone previously mentioned.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 17:01:57 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Emperor's Vehicles

AveNelso@aol.com wrote:

>         Is that just in Emperor's vehicles?   It certainly is not that way in Core
> Rule Book and Central Supply Catalogue.   In those books Armor is dice, and
> you only roll points after hit penetrates (and then only against
> people--vehicles just take location hits.)  In fact there are no "hit points"
> for vehicles, despite what Core Rule book implied.
>         So, If I fire heavy plasma cannon against 100 armor tank I roll 89 dice and
> subtract 100, and roll on the damage location chart. (say I rolled 200 points
> of damage 100 points get through---using Supply Catalouge, that would work its
> way through a lot of systems).
>          While in this case that would sound about right,  however that's not how the
> rules read:  When a damage rating 5 rifle (=5 dice) hits the power plant of an
> armored car with an armor of 2, 3 points got through the armor...the system
> failure dm is twice penetration +4.  (Central Suppy Catalogue p75).
>         Should we then divide armor ratings of Emperor's Vehicles by 3.5  to get
> 'real" armor rating that works with combat system?

That was my take on the book. But I'm biased. I believe Marc should have
adopted FFS1 as the definitive tech book. Thou FSS2 wasn't bad if you
discount the typos.

In my Universe Formerly known as Traveller, I started with the meta-system in
Gurps Space and added parts from all over.

Evyn...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 17:05:36 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

MindShift Design wrote:

> The problem with Mac emulation on a PC is the ROM. Unless you own the Mac in
> question it's illegal to use the ROM from a Mac in software form on your PC.

If I have the The stacks and I wrote them I don't see there is a problem.

> This applies to BBC, Atari, Amiga etc emulation as well - a familiar
> argument that rages with the MAME emulation of arcade games.
>
> There is a Mac emulator called VMac that allows you that comes with OS
> 6.0-ish of the Mac Os, and includes the hypercard software.

Damn, 7.1 is what I was hoping for.
Evyn...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 01:30:33 -0000
From: "MindShift Design" <mindshift@usa.net>
Subject: RE: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM
> [mailto:owner-traveller@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM]On Behalf Of Evyn
> MacDude
> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 1999 1:06 AM
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
> > This applies to BBC, Atari, Amiga etc emulation as well - a familiar
> > argument that rages with the MAME emulation of arcade games.
> >
> > There is a Mac emulator called VMac that allows you that comes with OS
> > 6.0-ish of the Mac Os, and includes the hypercard software.
>
> Damn, 7.1 is what I was hoping for.


It can use that as well. I always had problems due to the way it manipulate
the memory. I can send it on if you want. It'd be about 1Mb-ish though. If
you email me at the address below I'll forward it as an attachment.

Regards

Jason Paul McCartan
MindShift Design Game Studios
Game Developers
 "Altering Perceptions, Creating Worlds"

Home to the PBM/PBeM Developers Webring

email: mindshift@usa.net
website: http://members.xoom.com/mindshift

ICQ #: 16802661
AIM: Japem

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 18:02:49 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Striker: Missile Guidance systems - fixes? I

>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Striker
>
>suggested fixes?...

  Take a leaf from Striker II and switch to CD3, with a retrofit to CA? 

  But seriously:

 A) Drop IR Follow-up rounds.

 B) Laser Designated: possibly change auto-hit to DM +4, which is very
near the same thing. I have to wonder if the "low-power" setting for
spotting lasers is also de-collimated, as otherwise the spotters are
performing an interesting task by automatically hitting a rated target
at ranges for which hit values are already specified for their specific
weapon/fire control combos.
 
  Switching to +4 at least allows some dubious advantages for exposing
a turret only, or being smaller/entrenched/partly concealed, etc.

 C) Operator Guided: assume that the missile attack is affected by the
firing vehicles movement & stabilization (probably already specified,
but I don't have S/B:2 handy); further assume that _wire-guided_ tac 
missiles _do_ require the firing vehicle to remain stationary.

  A response to the homing missile issue would require a bit of research;
I have to wonder how credible using a Blowpipe (MP) SAM against an AFV in
ground clutter at 2 km would be in real life.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:04:45 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: DSR (Was Re: Traveller World Building)

At 02:47 PM 01/01/99 +0000, you wrote:
>Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca> wrote:
>
>>        Anyone care to tell me what "HEPLaR" stands for?  I'm a CT junkie,
>>and keep seeing references to this technology...
>
>High Energy PLAsma Recombustion
>

        Thanks!

>A plasma torch drive connected to a fusion plant, otherwise known as 'the
>abomination which replaced Thruster Plates in TNE'. Although T4 took the
>sensible approach of keeping both technologies.

        So, why the dislike for them?

>I believe it could be considered early canon as someone mentioned 1st Ed
>High Guard refers to fusion torch engines.
>
>Dom
>
        Ok.  Fairly high optical signature, yes?  More thrust per joule than
ion-drives, yes?
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:32:00 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: [CS] Question regarding PE economics

At 11:37 AM 01/01/99 -0800, you wrote:
>>From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Re: [CS] Question regarding PE economics
>...
>>I've noticed the same problem, and your notion of restricting
>>trading partners seems to be a good idea. I'd look at ruling that
>>SomeWhere needs to have at least 5% of Powerhouse's GDP before
>>SomeWhere can be considered a significant trading partner of
>>Powerhouse.
>
>  Of all places, Starfire Empires had a rule early on that the advantage
>of trade was a percentage (~10%, IIRC) increase in both economies, but
>that the size of the smaller was the limit to the amount of the larger 
>that could be involved in the transaction.
>
> I.E. - pocket empire of 50 RU and minor world of 5 RU; both gain 0.5 RU
>to their production as long as the relationship remains, and 45 RU of the
>PE is still available to seek other markets to become involved with.
>
>        Steven Hudson
>
        That makes brilliant sense.  Once the smaller partner's market is
saturated, there's no point in shovelling more at it...  send it somewhere
else.  So you get situations of one hi-pop/ hi-TL world driving and feeding
the economies of *several* smaller worlds.  Nice.

        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:32:01 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: What I Want In Traveller Software

At 04:38 PM 01/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
>    There are a lot of really good Traveller programs for creating sectors
>out there. But none of them do the one thing I would really like to do.
>
>You see, I have long wanted to make my own version of the Foreven Sector. I
>have the map out of that MT newsletter, and the specific UWP info for those
>worlds that were already done for it. What I would like is a sector or
>subsector program that lets you CHOOSE the map locations of the system and
>THEN generates the UWP info for the world located there. That way I could
>input the locations of the worlds and let the program "roll them up" for me.
>I would also like the UWP's-and all world information-to be editable, so I
>can go in and manually add the worlds that have already been detailed in
>their proper places.
>
>Anyone think they could do something like this?
>
>Allen

        That is what I am doing with mine...  Where I am using "mostly real
star data", I don't need random locations, I need random contents of
existing locations.  So, it's going to be able to read in a text file
containing either hex numbers or X-Y coords and build planets for that.
It'll do planets "blind" and/or randomly fill in locations if you like, too.
Mostly beacuse that is easy to do, programming wise.  =)
        The other thing mine is going to do is "age" a planet...  using my
own set of house rules (very abstracted) a planet will eventually go from
uninhabited to Pop:A StarPort:A, depending on its neighbors.  The other
thing mine will do is record the original die rolls that rendered the
results, so you can "tweak" a planet by modifying the underlying rolls.
        World Builder Deluxe (author's name escapes me) seems to be pretty
powerful, but I was already about 50% of the way through mine when he
announced his, so I am going to keep plodding along.  Its alphaware right
now, largely because I am not convinced the database structure won't change.
E-mail me privately if you'd like to see a copy...  The "generate from
location list" function isn't working yet, but it is what I am currently
hacking at.

        Regards,
        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:32:00 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: A Few Questions - Take 2

At 02:10 PM 01/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
>These may have been asked before, but what the hey....
>
>2) I've noticed a lot of subsector files on web sites stored as files
>(gif, jpg, etc.).  What program would anyone recommend to
>drawn/plot/save subsectors (to put on a web page for example)?

        Hi, Kevin!
        I am using a great RPG CAD program called Campaign Cartographer 2
(CC2) for my mapping work.  I use it both for deckplans as well as my
starmap.  Head to "http://www.profantasy.com" to get info on the product and
my site at "http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller" to see some
examples...  the large-scale TNEC map and the "subsector" view of the
"Terra" subsector were done with it, as well as all the starship deckplans.

>Thanks in advance.

        My pleasure.

        Regrads,
        --Michel        
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:47:57 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

At 03:13 PM 01/01/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Yeah. I'm not sure a BigAss(tm) missile (KKM) wouldn't be just as
>good against these kinds of targets. Put enough armor on it, and PD
>lasers have to ablate the sucker away to do any good...
>
>-Merrick
>

        Hi, Merrick....
        Or have the missile capable of jamming the crap out of the CIWS
fire-control systems with active jamming and decoys...  I am reading over
the Definitive Sensor Rules these days, and I am going to write up a
"jamming" set of optional/advanced rules for them...  If you can't see it
you can't shoot it...

	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 99 20:59:07 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Traveller & FUDGE

On 12/31/98 at 02:22 AM,  "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> said:

>Eris did speaketh thusly:

>>    ps 29 skills in this one.  Man, I'm starting to think that 30+
>>    skills is par for GURPS!


>It is. Actually, it can get worse than that. Character points are
>limited to 2 times the character's age ... but not the number of
>skills. Since GURPS gives a player the ability to give a character
>1/2 point in a skill, this means that a potential munchkin can have
>4x his age in skills ... *very* annoying.

>I'll stick with FUDGE. :-)

Ah, FUDGE! Another of my favorites. ;->

Do you use the FUDGE descriptors for tasks?  If so, how do you match
them with the task descriptors in the published Trav material?

How would you feel about the following for some conversion factors
between Traveller and FUDGE...

                                      Target
Range      Trav Task   FUDGE Task     Number**
============================================
Extreme                 Legendary      17+
V Long      Hopeless*   Awesome       15-16
Long        Staggering  Superb        13-14
Effective   Formidable  Great         11-12
Short       Difficult   Good           9-10
V Short     Routine     Fair           7-8
Contact     Easy        Mediocre       5-6
                        Poor           3-4
                        Terrible       1-2
    
            
*What I call Impossible.

**Attribute+Skill for Skills; 
  Attribute+Attribute for Attributes


Eris            

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:05:19 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: SJG TNS: The Plot thickens...

At 21:09 1-1-99 +0100, Volker A. Greimann wrote:
>When i was browsing the SJG Traveller pages, i noticed 
>two new TNS messages. The plot thickens, it seems....

Huh?  After reading your post, I went straight to the GURPS Trav page, but
I didn't see anything I hadn't already read a while ago.


James

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 21:50:27 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: HEPlaR (was: Re: DSR...) 

Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
> 
<<snip questions about HEPlaR>>
> 
> >A plasma torch drive connected to a fusion plant, otherwise known as 'the
> >abomination which replaced Thruster Plates in TNE'. Although T4 took the
> >sensible approach of keeping both technologies.
> 
>         So, why the dislike for them? [referring to HEPlaR drives]
> 
Two reasons come to mind:

1.  (Operational) They have limited endurance, compared to thruster
plates.

2.  (Canonical) TNE, by removing thruster plates from the available
thrust agencies, violated CT and MT canon.  Any ships designed under CT
or MT were completely invalidated, as the underlying assumption that
thrust was always available, so long as power was available for the
maneuver drive, was removed without (AFAIK) explanation.

<<snip>>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 20:04:39 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Striker - APC (TL 8)

APC (Tech Level 8)

   The vehicle has a crew of 2 (driver, commander) and carries 10 passengers.
It mounts a medium machinegun on a pintle at the commanders hatch. No fire
control installed. Height: 1.5 m. Width: 3.5 m. Length: 4.8 m. Total Volume:
22.68
m^3. Weight: 11.63 tons. Flotation: yes. Ground pressure = 4.6. Price: Cr
24,761.

  Movement: Road, 146 kph/122 cm; cross-country, 88 kph/73 cm; water 7 kph/
6 cm.
  Movement Effects on Fire: Move half or less, -4 FFP, no fire EFP; Move more
than half, no fire.
  Armour: Front, 20; sides, back, 12; deck, 7; belly, 3.
  Target Size DM's: +2 low.
  Equipment: Sealed environment.
  Power: 0.72 megawatt MHD turbine consumes 216 liters of fuel per hour; fuel
capacity is 648 liters, enough for 3 hours. P/W ratio is 61; vehicle is Light.
  Weapons: see MMG on table, page 36. Basic load is 3000 rounds.


  Design notes: Accessorization is yet again left up to the importer. Given
the fuel consumption brakes with TL 9 power plants, they might be better off
paying the premium for operational savings.

  Consumables schedule is: 3000 GPMG rounds, Cr 3600; 648 liters fuel, Cr 162.

  YA2TB, even ignoring the moderate frontal slope.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 99 22:06:30 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS characters and skills

On 12/31/98 at 12:43 PM,  "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net> said:

>   On the average, a GURPS character at 100 points will have between
>10 and 30 skills, usually with 1 point or 1/2 point in a lot of them,
>and the major ones bought higher. It really depends on the player
>though. One thing the template system does is control this and
>produce very reasonable characters, which is why I require it's use
>in my GT game.

I haven't played with the templates too much...I really need to sit
down and spend an afternoon doing that.  I was a little perturbed at
the number of points each template used, though, it looked like
there was very little room for customizing if you stayed with 100
point characters.  But like I said, I haven't played with them much
yet.

>Eris: since a lot of this might be considered off-topic, I invite you
>to feel free to e-mail me with any questions you might have on GURPS
>Character Creation, and I'll see if I can't at least answer your
>questions.

Thanks, Allen.  If people start complaining *too* loudly about posts
on the list, I might take you up on it, but from the responses, it
looks like some of us are interested in discussing it here.

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 99 22:07:48 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1339

On 12/31/98 at 12:10 PM,  Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com> said:

>> "In most versions of Traveller, all if you extend CT with the DGP
>> task system, we have a more formal system for grouping difficulties
>> into named "Task Difficulty Levels."  This is one area where I think
>> Traveller is *far* superior to GURPS."

>Well, I'll confess, not only do I use that, but somewhere, lost now,
>I had compiled every Task ever described in various publications into
>a "Task Library", sorted by skill.

If you *do* find it, I'm sure we'd all be interested in seeing a copy.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 99 22:10:10 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

On 12/31/98 at 12:43 PM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:

>> Only if the ships travel *reeeealy* slow...or you boost that can'o tuna up to near c...sea...see?  ;->
>> 
>I take it you're using "Chicken of the Near-C" brand tuna....

Yeah. Gives new meaning to "Star-Kist" doesn't it? ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 15:21:37
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: G:T Merchant

>From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
>Subject: RE: Why you should need more than Merchant for G:T Merchants
>
>Let's see. All this make him just shy of 33 years old, with a sum total of
>4000 hours' worth of education by a *master* merchant. (8000 hours of
>self-education, or 16000 hours of on the job training. For merchant alone.)
>The discrepancies between the time spent on Merchant and time spent on the
>other econimics skills seems less than believable from a training point of
>view. ("You spent 80 weeks training Merchant full time and *8* on
>Accounting?")
>

Well, Traveller characters tend to be older than most RPG's 18 year olds,
and I'd kinda assumed the character was in their late forties, and had
spent most of the last 20 years being a Gentleman Trader. Clearly
blackballed by TAS (otherwise, he should have TAS as a starting advantage
<I think it's a 10 point Right to Hospitality>). I kinda wanted about 5
points of Reputation, but ran out of points ('The Marches are a first-rate
place for Third-rate Imperials').

>Obvious munchkin material like this one should also, of course, expect a
>*lot* less slack (in particular when it comes to defaults and missing
>skills) from the gm than a well-designed interesting character. Or maybe the
>gm should simply start running combat-heavy adventures for a while. ;-)

Hey, I think this is a well-designed interesting character, albeit brutally
optimised. Note that I am not padding out the 40 points of disads with crap
like 'Skinny', and part of the point of the excersise is to show why we
need more skills for Merchants - mutating Area Knowledge into Commodity
Knowledge <commodity> is an obvious place to start.

>
>>Add a 100 point, available 15- Bodyguard-type Ally (30 points)
>
>Which is - thank god - an NPC. Meaning that it should be played by the GM
>and *not* the player. Especially not a player with such obvious munchkinoid
>tendencies. (Note that a good explanation would be needed for how such a
>studious merchant as this met and *befriended* a Bodyguard-type Ally. I
>think the 'wildly different background' clause at the end of the second
>paragraph of B24 applies here. Also, the entire 'GMing the Ally' section on
>B24 is good reading.)
>

I was thinking of the British TV show 'Minder', where the main character
was a bodyguard for Mr Arthur Daley, a rather disreputable trader. I was
thinking that despite having paid points, the Minder is still drawing a
fairly chunky salary. Which the player has to pay out, each and every
month. I'm thinking on or about four grand a month (you think everything
he's done has been completely legal, huh ? And that anyone looking to get
at him would maybe like to ignore an underpaid, under-appreciated gunsel,
huh ?)

>> <real minimaxers buy a 75 point Lawyer as a 'zero cost dependant' as
>well>.
>
>And the GM should then have said character (which is a Friend that appears
>on a 9 or less *each session* (B38)) do something legally inappropriate
>while 'trying to help', and be discovered, so the pc must try to get his
>'friend' out of trouble. This *is* a dependant. Not a free Ally. See the end
>of the second paragraph on B38.)

Oooooh, cool stuff *thinks if you can build Lazlo <Hunter S Thompson's
Samoan Attorney> on 75 points*. There was me thinking a pet Attorney was
merely an expensive habit ... (*blam* *blam* *blam* Trader :<fumbling with
pistol> 'They're shooting at us ... is returning fire illegal in this
juristdiction ?' <Minder draws and returns fire in a sustained and accurate
manner> Lawyer '<gets out stopwatch>Yes, and you are on paid time *now*')

>The GM should then note that according to Gurps rules (which should be
>played by strictly, when dealing with munchkins. Slack is for roleplayers.
>;-) the character spends 40 hours/week maintaining his job. This does *not*
>include adventuring. Also, if the character gets 'Wealthy', 'Very Wealthy'
>job (such as, say, Master Merchant), he'd only get a fraction of the pay a
>'Very Wealthy' pc would get. (Somewhat broken rule, I know, but if the
>munchin abuses the good parts, he should get hit with the bad parts too...
>;-)

With $1.5 mill in cash and Merchant-21, your job *is* merchant venturing
... if you dont have at least a mill tied up in speculative cargo at any
given time, I dont think you are playing the character right (personally, I
think you need more potential for high-end money in G:T ... when starships
are MCr 50 a throw, one and a half million isnt 'big money' any more).

>Combat Paralysis? He he he. At least the munchkin leabves the gm a good way
>of getting rid of it. ;-) Unlikely in a real munchkin, but still fun. ;-)

Note the highly-paid Minder ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1347
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 2 1999     Volume 1998 : Number 1348



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Jump Sickness
Re: CT/MT vs GT Discussion
Re: What I Want In Traveller Software
Re: Sofware for download
Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Re: GURPS characters and skills
Re: GURPS characters and skills
Re: Jump Sickness
Re: Question regarding PE economics
Re: Jump Sickness
Re: HEPlaR (was: Re: DSR...)
posting Task Library?
Re: A Few Questions - Take 2
Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (Texas Issues)
Noblity
Re: Pluto's Secret
Re: Traveller & FUDGE
Re: Pluto's Secret
Re: HEPlaR (was: Re: DSR...)
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (Texas Issues)
Re: Pluto's Secret
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 20:32:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Jump Sickness

Regarding the specifics of "Jump Sickness", while this is certainly not
Traveller canon, one of the members of the long-running TML PBeM
established the following definitions for use within the game:

  JTS:
     Jump Transition Syndrome. Commonly known as Jump Sickness. 

  Jump Sickness:
     Jump Induced Acute Bilateral Peripheral Vestibulopathy. Manifested
     by vertigo, nausea, and vomiting. During the attack, the patient
     is often found lying on one side, unwilling to move his head. In
     milder cases, the patient does not require treatment. In severe
     cases, the patient may require IV fluid resuscitation and IV
     sedation. Death has been reported secondary to profound emesis and
     aspiration leading to suffocation or pneumonia and their sequelae.
     Prophylaxis is with a wide variety of drugs that work in the PNS
     including antihistamines, anticholinergics, benzodiazepines and
     sympathomimetics.

Bear in mind that this player is not only running the Chief Medical
Officer (Dr. Jan Yorblin, FICAI), but in real life he is a Lt. in
the U.S. Navy, a career ER physician, and currently the chief DMO
(Dive Medical Officer) for Roosevelt Roads U.S. Naval Facility in
Puerto Rico.  As such, his basis for establishing a very realistic
baseline for "Jump Sickness" is about as solid as they come.

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 99 22:36:27 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: CT/MT vs GT Discussion

On 12/31/98 at 04:31 PM,  "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> said:

>>So, in a comparison between GURPS and CT, do you see the progression
>>of skill levels for unmodified tasks resembling something like
>>this...
>>
>>          3d6           2d6
>>         GURPS         Trav
>> Default   6    9%       3    8%
>>          10   50%
>>          11   63%       0   58%
>>          12   74%       1   72%
>>          13   84%       2   83%
>>          14   91%       3   92%
>>          15   95%
>>          16   98%       4   97%
>>          17   99%
>>          18  100%       5  100%

>This would work (I don't know where you came up with the %ages for
>"2d6").  

I was combining an average character's attribute (7) with various
skill levels, ie.

  Default  7/2, d  =  3   8%
  Sk-0     7+0     =  7  58%
  Sk-1     7+1     =  8  72%
  ...

Eris
AKU GM
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:47:01 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: What I Want In Traveller Software

"Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net> writes:
>What I would like is a sector or
>subsector program that lets you CHOOSE the map locations of the system and
>THEN generates the UWP info for the world located there. 
[snip]
>
>I would also like the UWP's-and all world information-to be editable, so I
>can go in and manually add the worlds that have already been detailed in
>their proper places.
>
>Anyone think they could do something like this?

Already done, and will be released as soon as I fix an annoying memory
bug. Imperial Grand Survey lets you click on a hex and then generate the
system (command-G shortcut).  Every hex can be edited.  Keep your eye on
the BITS pages (www.bits.org.uk) for more information.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:50:24 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Sofware for download

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes:
>Would love to, but I can only do Mac Stuff here, and as I host Rob's stuff
>and run the BITS software side on his behalf I am not exactly unbiased...

Go ahead, some of my best suggestion have come from you :-)

Seriously, I can't think of someone _better_ qualified, except maybe Marc
or Loren, neither of whom (I believe) has a Mac.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:55:22 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net> writes:
>> The problem with Mac emulation on a PC is the ROM. Unless you own the
>Mac in
>> question it's illegal to use the ROM from a Mac in software form on
>your PC.
>
>If I have the The stacks and I wrote them I don't see there is a problem.

Not the stacks, the operating system.

The Mac OS is copyright Apple, not you, and thus you need the OS license
to run the OS.

You can probably buy the license nowadays, but you _do_ have to purchase
it to stay legal.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:56:48 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS characters and skills

>I haven't played with the templates too much...I really need to sit
>down and spend an afternoon doing that.  I was a little perturbed at
>the number of points each template used, though, it looked like
>there was very little room for customizing if you stayed with 100
>point characters.  But like I said, I haven't played with them much
>yet.


The "average" template has a point total of 90 points. It usually has 20
points in disads and no points in Quirks. GURPS characters are usually
allowed 40 points in disadvantages and up to five 1-point Quirks, thus
giving you 25 points extra to spend beyond the ones listed for the
template..plus the fact that characters are balanced at 100 points, so
there's an extra 10 too. and 35 points can allow for a pretty fair amount of
customization, IMO. Plus the templates are not inviolate; they can be
altered with the GM's permission (or not used at all except as rough
guidelines if you prefer). Obviously, individual templates will vary with
this somewhat. The templates are most useful for reducing the creation time
for characters for people not used to the GURPS system; I use them in GURPS
Traveller to retain some of the "class/profession" based nature of
Traveller.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:56:48 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS characters and skills

>I haven't played with the templates too much...I really need to sit
>down and spend an afternoon doing that.  I was a little perturbed at
>the number of points each template used, though, it looked like
>there was very little room for customizing if you stayed with 100
>point characters.  But like I said, I haven't played with them much
>yet.


The "average" template has a point total of 90 points. It usually has 20
points in disads and no points in Quirks. GURPS characters are usually
allowed 40 points in disadvantages and up to five 1-point Quirks, thus
giving you 25 points extra to spend beyond the ones listed for the
template..plus the fact that characters are balanced at 100 points, so
there's an extra 10 too. and 35 points can allow for a pretty fair amount of
customization, IMO. Plus the templates are not inviolate; they can be
altered with the GM's permission (or not used at all except as rough
guidelines if you prefer). Obviously, individual templates will vary with
this somewhat. The templates are most useful for reducing the creation time
for characters for people not used to the GURPS system; I use them in GURPS
Traveller to retain some of the "class/profession" based nature of
Traveller.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:53:21 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Sickness

Mark Cook wrote:
> 
> Regarding the specifics of "Jump Sickness"

It's just been added to my Library data files. Now Mark, what criteria
do you use to determine who gets it, when do they get it, and how acute
a case they get?

IMTU everyone suffers, some more than others basically based on END.,
poor rolls generally extending the length of the attack. Now they may
find the severity going up as well! My players will love you! (heh,heh).

Mike Peters
travelleri@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 21:38:43 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Question regarding PE economics

>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: [CS] Question regarding PE economics
...
>> I.E. - pocket empire of 50 RU and minor world of 5 RU; both gain 0.5 RU
>>to their production as long as the relationship remains, and 45 RU of the
>>PE is still available to seek other markets to become involved with.
...
>        That makes brilliant sense.  Once the smaller partner's market is
>saturated, there's no point in shovelling more at it...  send it somewhere
>else.  So you get situations of one hi-pop/ hi-TL world driving and feeding
>the economies of *several* smaller worlds.  Nice.

  Starfire Empires (c.1985?) had a lot of great ideas and detail, not all
of which would be too dated even now. Of course, they weren't all playable
without the computer assists that simply weren't practical then...

  The rule above also leads very nicely into understandable struggles over
spheres of influence, etc., as a near-satellite can be pretty much counted
on to help beef up your economy rather than that of a potential rivals. Of
course, this also means that attempting to poach off a trade-world can be
interpreted as a casus belli...

  I'll bet that the Islands Cluster has a real interesting history.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:48:26 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Sickness

Mark Cook wrote:
> 
> Regarding the specifics of "Jump Sickness", while this is certainly not
> Traveller canon, one of the members of the long-running TML PBeM
> established the following definitions for use within the game:
> 
>   JTS:
>      Jump Transition Syndrome. Commonly known as Jump Sickness.
> 
>   Jump Sickness:
>      Jump Induced Acute Bilateral Peripheral Vestibulopathy. Manifested
>      by vertigo, nausea, and vomiting. During the attack, the patient
>      is often found lying on one side, unwilling to move his head. In
>      milder cases, the patient does not require treatment. In severe
>      cases, the patient may require IV fluid resuscitation and IV
>      sedation. Death has been reported secondary to profound emesis and
>      aspiration leading to suffocation or pneumonia and their sequelae.
>      Prophylaxis is with a wide variety of drugs that work in the PNS
>      including antihistamines, anticholinergics, benzodiazepines and
>      sympathomimetics.
> 

Sounds similar (though somewhat more severe) to the aftereffects of
Alderson Drive use in Jerry Pournelle's CoDominium works.  (In
Pournelle's books, the FTL drive [Alderson Drive] has disorienting or
worse effects on both people and elctronics, but the effect is generally
transient without need of medical intervention.)

In my ref's TU, _viewing_ Jumpspace can cause similar symptoms in some
cases (I deliberately described my character, a Colonel of Jump
Infantry, as one of these).  The rationale was that the attempt to
reconcile the view of Jumpspace with "normal" human perceptions is
disorienting in many cases, thus leading to the symptoms described
above.

<<snip>>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 01:23:57 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: HEPlaR (was: Re: DSR...)

In a message dated 1/1/99 7:54:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, wombat@premier.net
writes:

<< (Canonical) TNE, by removing thruster plates from the available
 thrust agencies, violated CT and MT canon.  Any ships designed under CT
 or MT were completely invalidated, as the underlying assumption that
 thrust was always available, so long as power was available for the
 maneuver drive, was removed without (AFAIK) explanation.
 
 <<snip>> >>

Not necessarily. I'm a CT freak, and I always assumed that one of the reasons
that the power plant needed so much fuel (1 percent of ship's displacement
tonnage per powerplant number) was to provide reaction mass for the manuever
drives. Admittedly I know very little about TNE and am not a gearhead or
techie to boot, but I thought that the thruster plates were where the reaction
took place and where the reaction mass was expelled.... This Heplar-Thruster
plate arguement always confused me, because I thought that the CT manuever
drive used elements of both... Please enlighten me....

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 01:27:38 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: posting Task Library?

In a message dated 1/1/99 8:12:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, eris@gulf.net
writes:

<< >Well, I'll confess, not only do I use that, but somewhere, lost now,
 >I had compiled every Task ever described in various publications into
 >a "Task Library", sorted by skill.
 
 If you *do* find it, I'm sure we'd all be interested in seeing a copy.
  >>

Oh Yes! Please find and post this nugget.... I have another idea for the list.
If anyone has compiled a list of ALL CT through T4 list of skills, how about
posting that too?

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 01:45:39 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: A Few Questions - Take 2

> 1) GDW went belly-up before the third and final part of their novel
> trilogy was finished (Death of Wisdom and To Dream of Chaos being parts
> one and two).  Was the third part ever published?  If not, are there
> plans to do so (release electronically, etc.)?

Nope.  According to Dave Nilsen various drafts had been finished, but it
needed "some serious rewriting."

> 3) Has anyone every converted the Azhanti High Lightning-class cruiser
> or the Judge's Guild Dranke Station into Brilliant Lance stats?

I did Fleet Intruder and Frontier Cruiser configs of the AZH on Annti
Lahiten's excellent TNE/FF&S spreadsheet.  Try
http://members.aol.com/travelrtne/ffs.htm


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:44:52 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

Rob Prior wrote:

> The Mac OS is copyright Apple, not you, and thus you need the OS license
> to run the OS.

> You can probably buy the license nowadays, but you _do_ have to purchase
> it to stay legal.

  It's ok the machine it existed on is kaput, and the license was for one
Machine.

Evyn...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:48:32 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

MindShift Design wrote:

> > Damn, 7.1 is what I was hoping for.
>
> It can use that as well. I always had problems due to the way it manipulate
> the memory. I can send it on if you want. It'd be about 1Mb-ish though. If
> you email me at the address below I'll forward it as an attachment.

Not right at the moment, too many Os's live on my box right now.
Maybe after I get things sorted out.

BTW and this is way off topic, any one know how to rig two
moniters on a Win95 box? NT handles it ok so far.

Evyn...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 02:12:41 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (Texas Issues)

Hope you had as much fun over your holidays as i did over mine. : )

Don't get me wrong, I like Texas.  Sometimes the natives are almost as bad as
New Yorkers, but... ; )   J/k.  lol.    I've been to Texas a couple times and
I like the state and the people.
  Still, i'm having difficulty suspending my disbelief over teh secession
thing, as presented so far.  Of course, i'd be opposed to it in Real Life
(tm), but think it *could* be pretty neat for the history of Traveller's Terra
IMTU, as well (though i haven't gone near Terra *yet*).  

> In support of the secession, let me present the following:  By 2023,
> the United States has been engaged in a three-year Trade War with
> Japan and other major powers of the time, and are now two years into
> an eight-year long Depression.  Things are bad; the US has not yet
> recovered from the economic straightjacket it has found itself in.

I just don't see what the US would gain by allowing Texas to secede.  It loses
alot and gains little.  Hostilities tend to be good for economies (it was WWII
that ended the Great Depression, no?).  In addition, all US assets and tax
revenues from Texas are lost.  In addition, other states (particularly
California) would want to do the same and the whole thing would snowball.  

> However, Moses Adamson, unbeknownst to the general public, had a
> Special psionic power, similar to the Mule from the Foundation
> series by Isaac Asimov.  He had the capacity to control minds of
> those whom he met and physically touched.  One handshake was all it
> took.  When President Adamson died, he left behind the legacy of the

That's a nice touch.  It would have to be lasting beyond the proximity though,
or as soon as he's gone, decisions might be reversed.  This would have to
affect teh cabinet and congress, too, for it to work.  Is this a subconcious
thing or is it willingly controlled?  The answer to that could change the
whole perspective over Adamnson and his ilk.

> GRT.  (Eventually, it will rejoin the US.  Even before the end of
> the 21st century, the two are operating in tandem on many projects.
> The cultural inertia will eventually succeed.  However, for the
> period of First Contact, they are two politically separate
> entities.)

I just need something more substantive that would allow Texas to secede, the
US to allow it, that doesn't bring more than half the other states along w/ it
(to individual independance or a new nation).  Course noone says the USS
Starleaper (or whatever) has to be from the same USA, as is current today (or
c 1977 even), but could be one that is much different.  Maybe the President
and Congress got some megalomania and decided to conquer North America or the
Western Hemisphere?  Nah... don't want to incite a jingoism flame war^H^H^H^H
discussion.  : )

> Third, the Chelsea Clinton line, while humorous, will get old soon.
> I will most likely remove it.  However, it does show a point:
> Margaret Inch is not the first female US President; there have been
> others before her.  Also, I get a personal kick out of imagining
> Chelsea's campaign slogan.  She runs Republican and starts most
> speeches with "While I may be my father's daughter, I have proven
> that I am not my father."  I apologize should this have offended
> anyone, and hope that it is taken in the spirit of fun in which it
> was intended.

I wasn't offended.  Maybe i was just seeing it as too obvious a joke, from my
perspective, but of course, i don't know your politics (nor does it matter in
this context). : )    Maybe you should leave it (if only for the irony). ; )


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:15:45 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Noblity

I'm trying to recall exactly how the various noble ranks in
the Imperium work (since I have a charcter who wants to play
a Baroness, Status 3 in GT).

MT says a Marquis (a Count in GT) is responsible for one
world "generally a large an important one".
Is a Baron responsible for a "minor" world or does that fact
that it doesn't menion a world in the description for a Baron
mean that they are never responsible for worlds?  It also
says a Baron "may" have a fief.  Does that mean
that a parent can pass on a title without a fief?
If one only has a fief, does he have
no obligation as a member of the Imperium (other than to behave
properly)?

A child of a noble, who doesn't inherit a title, is still a
noble, called what?  Does he/she have the same status as
his/her parent?

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 02:25:42 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pluto's Secret

I think it's probably the consensus that there's an Ancients site on Pluto.
Certainly that seems the most popular...  Something like Antiquity, i suppose?
Maybe working artifacts and/or an installation?  I don't like the humans just
found and copied an Ancients jump drive theory.


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:41:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller & FUDGE

> Ah, FUDGE! Another of my favorites. ;->
> 
> Do you use the FUDGE descriptors for tasks?  If so, how do you match
> them with the task descriptors in the published Trav material?
> 
> How would you feel about the following for some conversion factors
> between Traveller and FUDGE...


I got some fudge on my Book #1, once.  Didn't help any.  Left a little
buttery stain in one corner.  Used to smell nice, but not anymore.  I
don't suggest mixing Traveller and fudge on a regular basis.



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4 ?tg ge- 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 02:40:08 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pluto's Secret

In a message dated 1/1/99 11:28:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
TravelrTNE@aol.com writes:

<<  I don't like the humans just
 found and copied an Ancients jump drive theory. >>

especially as Loren (and I asume Marc) is adamant about the Solomani
discovering Jump Drive on their own...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 01:13:35 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: HEPlaR (was: Re: DSR...)

 
> 2.  (Canonical) TNE, by removing thruster plates from the available
> thrust agencies, violated CT and MT canon.  Any ships designed under CT
> or MT were completely invalidated, as the underlying assumption that
> thrust was always available, so long as power was available for the
> maneuver drive, was removed without (AFAIK) explanation.
 
It was never stated (early on, anyway) that CT drive were
reationless. As I recall, there was a HG rule (1st edition?) that
allowed the use of the drives as if they were a fusion gun (very
Niven like :-)

When I first played traveller back in the late 70s, maybe 1980, I
always assumed they were fusion drives like in Known Space books by
Niven...

As a result, I kinda liked HEPlaR, though I figured for
compatability there shoulda been an even more absurdly efficient
version that gave at least several days endurance under
acceleration.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 02:30:47 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (Texas Issues)

Let me throw in my .02 Cr worth.
The 2300 AD timeline presents an indepedent Texas.
Texas is invaded by Mexico, eventually breaks free and refuses to rejoin the
US.

It becomes a spacefaring nation with colonies.

This is more plausible to me than secession, but not by much.

As a Texas History Teacher (yes we exist) I do feel that Texas would have
far too much to lose by leaving the US.   Militaries are expensive, thats
why we have the federal government.
Also, I have a problem with the US letting go of a Nuclear weapon assembly
facility (El Paso) and other major military sites in the state.
Other than loosing Texas to invasion, I can't forsee the US letting us go.

(0f course there goes my Texas in 2300 Website)

TV

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 08:26:30 +0000
From: dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com
Subject: Re: Pluto's Secret

At 02:40 02/01/99 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 1/1/99 11:28:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>TravelrTNE@aol.com writes:
>
><<  I don't like the humans just
> found and copied an Ancients jump drive theory. >>
>Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote :-

>especially as Loren (and I asume Marc) is adamant about the Solomani
>discovering Jump Drive on their own...


Well it could be that all races in the Traveller universe are minor, as
the Droyne may have developed Time Travel first and stole the Jump Drive
off the Solomani.  Then they went back in time and gave it to themselves
before anyone else realised, and fabricated the story surrounding the Coyns.




Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 13:05:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

In mail you write:

>         (d) If there are more than two attackers, with some separation,
> it'll be impossible to lay in a right angle course to all of them.

Make that more than *three* attackers. Three points define a plane. And
regardless of whether or not the target is *in* that plane, it can lay
in a course at right angles to said plane. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 13:08:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

In mail you write:

> BTW your ship is basically a blind man with respect to this
> projectile,  an unpowered kinetic projectile with a cross section of
> less than 2cm moving at 4Km/s  (current velocities, probably much
> faster in Traveller terms ) is almost impossible to detect in time to
> react to it.

Less than 2 cm = max volume of 8 cm^3, thus max mass of 176 grams. At 4
km/s that gives an impact energy of 1.4 Mj. Which is also the energy
required to *launch* it (ignoring losses). About what you'd get from
300 grams of TNT.

Actually, the impact energy is more apt to be determined by the
velocity of the two ships relative to each other, as that will often be
in the tens or even hundreds of km/sec.

> And, of course the above argument completely misses the fact that
> railguns are _cheap_ in comparison to missiles beam weapons etc.

Note the amount of energy required for a 4 km/sec projectile. The
required energy goes up as the *square* of the velocity. 

> Your blind ship may luckily detect and avoid _one_ such projectile,
> what if we throw five
> thousand at you a minute in a cloud ?
> (Yes, you'll probably detect the cloud before it spreads )

> The _only_ real defense against rail guns is _very_ thick armour
>  planetoid or several metres
> concrete or a foot or two of modern spaced armour ) or a black globe.
> Dodging the projectiles is really not an option.

Sure it is. At 4 km/sec, it takes over *two hours* for the projectiles
to cross *one* 30,000 km hex. In that time the ship is likely to be
*anywhere* but where you aimed. And the max *useful* spread on those
projectiles is a lot less than the spread of possible ship positions.

Mind you, if you've got a situation where the ship *isn't* going to be
manuevering, then they are in trouble. But that's rather a special case.

> It will also keep going. Imagine the flack you'd get from high command
> if you if you fired on the wrong vector and hit the planet or star
> port you were trying to defend !

A lot depends on what vector the firing ship has. Most shots are likely
to be moving at above system escape velocity. But they'll be dangerous
for a century or more as they cross the system. Luckily space is *big*
so the odds of running into them are slim.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1348
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 2 1999     Volume 1998 : Number 1349



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Calendars
Re: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time
Re: "Flaky" astronomy question
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
What I Want In Traveller Software
Re: GURPS characters and skills
Re: GURPS characters and skills
[OT] Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program
Re: Sofware for download
re: posting Task Library?
Re: DSR (Was Re: Traveller World Building)
Re: GURPS Traveller Character
Re: Pluto's secret
Re: A Few Questions - Take 2 
Re: Pluto's secret 
Re: Nobility
Re: G:T Merchant
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long) >

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 13:30:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Calendars

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:16:22 -0500, Christopher Thrash
> <thrash@io.com> wrote:
>
>>>From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
>
>>>The Solomani dating system is a close match in terms of sol and
>>>ano lengths to the Imperial and Sylean systems....
>>>There is a complex rule that adds an extra
>>>(intercalary) sol to the calendar in 97 out of every 400 anos.
>
>>Which has the amusing effect of making the two calendars out of sync:
>>001-1120 falls on something like 28 April, AD 5640 -- unless you believe
>>that the year 0 Imperial corresponds to AD 4518 instead of AD 4521, which
>>is another discussion.
>
> True - but does it really matter whether or not the Solomani and
> Imperial calendars are in synch?  Remember, local calendars are
> going to be tied to phenomena with strictly local significance,
> whereas the Imperial calendar serves the entire Imperium for
> Imperial matters.  Even if it does show an untoward level of
> Solomani influence.
>
> Some interesting reading on the subject of calendars can be found
> in the Calendar FAQ (which can be found in the usual places for
> Usenet FAQs) - it discusses a _lot_ of different calendars, with
> some information as to their derivations and how they work.  Even
> though virtually the entire world currently uses the Gregorian
> calendar for general purposes, some of these other calendars,
> such as the Jewish, Islamic, and Chinese calendars, are still
> used for religious purposes.  One can reasonably expect the same
> thing to happen in the Traveller milieu; local calendars will
> continue to be used, more or less depending on the relative
> significance of offworld contact in the affairs of the world.

For what it's worth, the Imperial Calendar is actually the "World
Calendar" or the "International Calendar" with the serial numbers filed
off. I'd have to check my notes to see which it is.

> I'd really like to hear from Those Who Know what the exact
> corresponding dates and times are, so I can write a correct
> calendar program to convert between the various calendars.

So would I. I've got some old notes, but it would *really* be nice if
someone (Marc Miller, perhaps?) would once and for all set official
date equivalences. 

Though when you get right down to it, the only *real* difference it'll
make in the programs is one data statement per calendar. Namely, what
Julian Day number to use as "0" for that calendar. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 13:24:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Orbital positions of worlds at any given time

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> <<
> My approach would be much the same, except that I'd likely use Julian
> Day #0 (1 Jan 4713 BC old style), since all my date related coding uses
> that as a common base.
>>>
> -
> On looking into my Imp Encylopaedia. I find that, according to it, 4717BC
> (Terran dating) is equivalent to 3955PI (Vilani dating), which is when they
> (the Vilani) first discovered Jump Drive.
>
> Given that there is some evidence that zero BC, if you wish to take it as
> the Birth of Christ -(I'm not expressing an opinion so let's not discuss the
> validity of the religion) -is out by some 4 years*, this could shift your
> 'Base
> Day' to 4713 BC, and thus it could refer to the VIlani Jump Drive event.

There's no "0BC" or "AD 0" (and yes, AD *is* supposed to go *in front*
of the year). The count goes:

2 BC
1 BC
AD 1
AD 2

Zero wasn't invented until *after* the AD system was started.

And the 4713 BC is by the Julian calendar, not the gregorian.  But the
difference between the two isn't enough to amount to even a full year
over that time span.

> *Note : Having said that I could be out by four years the other way, and
> be totally wrong....

Since the "King Herod" referred to in the New Testament *died* in 4 BC,
the shift *is* in the wrong direction to help you. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 13:38:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: "Flaky" astronomy question

In mail you write:

>> I remember reading somewhere recently that astronomers have
>> postulated that a stellar remnant (ie dead star) would actually be a
>> gigantic diamond (or coated in diamond, I can't remember which). Now
>> here is my flaky question. Would this be an accessable resource
>> (could be mined) or would gravity and/or radiation prevent this?

Gravity. You are essentially talking about a white dwarf which has had
enough time to cool off (as I recall, the universe isn't old enough
yet). 

Figure out the surface gravity for a body that masses the same as the
sun and is (let's be generous) 50 miles across. Hint, the gravity at
the "surface" of the sun is around 26 g. And it's around 60,000 (or is
it 600,000?) km radius...
 
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 13:01:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

In mail you write:

> Huh? Missiles are guided towards the general area of the target
> (easy to do), then once they are close enough to actually attack,
> the lag is pretty small. And a 12g12 missile caould be going very
> much faster than most railguns (I missed the ravioli stuff, what was
> the quoted velocity? More than 200km/s (12gs worth of burn)?

The ravioli gun post covered velocities from a few meters a second up
to barely distinguishable from c (they had a section discussing the
effects that would occur when the speed of the projectile exceeded the
speed of light in whatever material the target was made of!).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 09:33:21 -0000
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net>
Subject: What I Want In Traveller Software

Allen Shock wrote:

>    There are a lot of really good Traveller programs for creating sectors
>out there. But none of them do the one thing I would really like to do.

>You see, I have long wanted to make my own version of the Foreven Sector. I
>have the map out of that MT newsletter, and the specific UWP info for those
>worlds that were already done for it. What I would like is a sector or
>subsector program that lets you CHOOSE the map locations of the system and
>THEN generates the UWP info for the world located there. That way I could
>input the locations of the worlds and let the program "roll them up" for
me.
>I would also like the UWP's-and all world information-to be editable, so I
>can go in and manually add the worlds that have already been detailed in
>their proper places.

>Anyone think they could do something like this?

You probably want to try Tom Bont's Astrogator program. It is one of the
most configurable sector mapping programs I have found and does. It can be
found at the following location:-

http://www.felixcafe.com/gurps

Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@virgin.net
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 02:36:27 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS characters and skills

Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:56:48 -0500, "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>

>Plus the templates are not inviolate; they can be
>altered with the GM's permission (or not used at all except as rough
>guidelines if you prefer).

Actually, unless a GM is putting them to some specific use that
requires otherwise, there really isn't much reason a player can't
change them just as much as he/she wants.  They are really just
partially complete sample characters.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 02:32:56 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS characters and skills

>I haven't played with the templates too much...I really need to sit
>down and spend an afternoon doing that.  I was a little perturbed at
>the number of points each template used, though, it looked like
>there was very little room for customizing if you stayed with 100
>point characters.  But like I said, I haven't played with them much
>yet.

They were intended to be fairly complete characters for newbies.
Players with more experience should feel free to modify them.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 10:11:11 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [OT] Re: LOOKING: Best window character Gen program

 Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net> wrote:

>> There is a Mac emulator called VMac that allows you that comes with OS
>> 6.0-ish of the Mac Os, and includes the hypercard software.
>
>Damn, 7.1 is what I was hoping for.

Isn't 7.1 just the PPC fixed version of 7.0?

Think this is starting to drift way off topic - lets' take it private if we
continue.

BTW has anyone run any of Rob Prior's software with System 6?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 10:39:44 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Sofware for download

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote:

>SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes:
>>Would love to, but I can only do Mac Stuff here, and as I host Rob's stuff
>>and run the BITS software side on his behalf I am not exactly unbiased...
>
>Go ahead, some of my best suggestion have come from you :-)

Why, thank you, sir.

>Seriously, I can't think of someone _better_ qualified, except maybe Marc
>or Loren, neither of whom (I believe) has a Mac.

But I still feel I may have a teensie weensie conflict of interest? But
thank you for the complement. I know Andy L will probably happily review
them once the PC ports start to appear...


Is there anyone else on the TML using the MacOS who could review Rob's
software for Freelance Traveller?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 10:28:05 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: posting Task Library?

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:

>Oh Yes! Please find and post this nugget.... I have another idea for the list.
>If anyone has compiled a list of ALL CT through T4 list of skills, how about
>posting that too?

If you come across GT it has a list in the back, IIRC.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 10:38:35 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: DSR (Was Re: Traveller World Building)

Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca> wrote:

>>A plasma torch drive connected to a fusion plant, otherwise known as 'the
>>abomination which replaced Thruster Plates in TNE'. Although T4 took the
>>sensible approach of keeping both technologies.
>
>        So, why the dislike for them?

Because I liked T-plates and dropping them because they were
pseudo-scientific really irritated me, especially when the same game had
handwaved grav pulse laser focusing for lasers, and the V word. I couldn't
see why it couldn't be possible to keep T Plates on as a technology too.
This was fixed with T4, but remembering the changes in TNE make me go
Grrrr! It was the TNE background (canon) change that most annoyed me. I had
always been influenced by a certain film trilogies Star Destroyers and
YT1300 stock light freighters.

I do like the idea of HEPLaR really; indeed, it gave us some interesting
ideas when writing material for the defunct IG version of the Signal GK
Dagudashaag sourcebook. We had some renegade Interstellar Confederacy
commerce raiders designed, which were really cool. Doug Berry designed them
after a couple of email exchanges, and gave them HEPLaR drives because it
made them pretty distinct from the Imperial ships. TL12 but no T-Plates.
Anyway, the ships were nasties - the inspiration were the Carrier's in CJ
Cherryh's Alliance/Union universe; they had nasty battle riders and the
main ship was capable of taking quite a pounding too. The Fueler detached
like the Manta in TNE's Aurora Clippers. Sadly Doug's copy of Excel trashed
the file with them in, but he reckoned that they would take down an
Imperial Coronation Class Battleship (albeit with heavy losses).

>>I believe it could be considered early canon as someone mentioned 1st Ed
>>High Guard refers to fusion torch engines.

>        Ok.  Fairly high optical signature, yes?  More thrust per joule than
>ion-drives, yes?

Optical sig - I assume so, Bruce or Dave may be able to expand a bit.

Thrust? Yes, a lot higher.

TL7 	Ion drive	0.033 kN/m3
TL11 	T-Plates	400 kN/m3
TL10	HEPLaR	2000 kN/m3

Figures are from T4's FFS2

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:17:06 +0100
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Character

From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>

>Now, as to the "one-skill Johnny", a good GM can work around this by making
>that one skill of limited use or utility...

True. The problem I have with this type of character is the good old
'mixed-level' party problem. That is, something that will challenge Johnny
appropriately will *destroy* the others. And, given that Johnny really can't
do much else (it's usually combat, for some reason ;-) he'll be bored
senseless when the others are doing something else.

The first problem can be overcome if everybody (gm and players) agree that
the genre they're playing in works like this. I.e., the battlesuited thugs
will attack Johnny *without* spreading explosive submunitions all over the
other players, *and* Johnny will refrain from nuking the unarmed martial
artist that's destined to fight the player who also runs an unarmed martial
artist. It's just that it's a rather fragile balance. (And, for a GM like me
who straddles the Gamist/Simulationist fence, it just doesn't feel good.)

The second problem can easily be ignored by the GM. "You should have thought
of that when you designed the character." But *I* (the GM) don't like it if
the players are bored. (It happens, but I try to avoid it.) Also, Johnnies
*tend* to (it's not always true) to be one-dimensional characters, without
many 'hooks', meaning that they're difficult to entangle in plots. Which
also gets kind of boring for me.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 22:27:39
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Pluto's secret

>From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Pluto's Secret
>
>I think it's probably the consensus that there's an Ancients site on Pluto.
>Certainly that seems the most popular...  Something like Antiquity, i
suppose?
>Maybe working artifacts and/or an installation?  I don't like the humans just
>found and copied an Ancients jump drive theory.

A compromise proposal is that the Solomani invented the jump drive in the
same way the Soviets invented their atomic bomb.

They found out is was possible and got some very good hints, but without
hard work, some brilliance and some very good engineering, then they
wouldnt have got it to work as well as they did.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 06:41:44 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: A Few Questions - Take 2 

> 2) I've noticed a lot of subsector files on web sites stored as files
> (gif, jpg, etc.).  What program would anyone recommend to
> drawn/plot/save subsectors (to put on a web page for example)?

I use TravTools for the initial generation and maps.  TravTools displays the 
maps, then I ALT-PRNTSCRN to push it onto the clipboard and paste it to the 
paint program.  Then I crop it and save it off as a .jpg.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 06:50:10 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Pluto's secret 

> >I think it's probably the consensus that there's an Ancients site on Pluto.
> >Certainly that seems the most popular...  Something like Antiquity, i
> suppose?
> >Maybe working artifacts and/or an installation?  I don't like the humans just
> >found and copied an Ancients jump drive theory.
> 
> A compromise proposal is that the Solomani invented the jump drive in the
> same way the Soviets invented their atomic bomb.
> 
> They found out is was possible and got some very good hints, but without
> hard work, some brilliance and some very good engineering, then they
> wouldnt have got it to work as well as they did.

Well, my players in my PBEM haven't got a clue what's there.  It's never been
defined by me yet IMTU.  Course, IMTU, the Sollies actually got Jump Drive
from the Vilani via a crashed merchie in AD 1947 at a little place called
Roswell, but the Sollies have done a good job of covering it all up.  <grin>
Remember, history is written by the *victors*.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 22:59:57
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Nobility

>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Noblity
>
>I'm trying to recall exactly how the various noble ranks in
>the Imperium work (since I have a charcter who wants to play
>a Baroness, Status 3 in GT).
>
>MT says a Marquis (a Count in GT) is responsible for one
>world "generally a large an important one".
>Is a Baron responsible for a "minor" world or does that fact
>that it doesn't menion a world in the description for a Baron
>mean that they are never responsible for worlds?  It also
>says a Baron "may" have a fief.  Does that mean
>that a parent can pass on a title without a fief?
>If one only has a fief, does he have
>no obligation as a member of the Imperium (other than to behave
>properly)?

Fiefs may or may not be linked to titles - you may have Admiral James
Arbuthot, Duke Whatsit, who holds a number of fiefs, some as Duke Whatsit
and some as part of the Arbithot family lands (see, they held those
*before* they acquired the Duchy of Whatsit, and it is held under an
independant grant). Fiefs can be inheritable or life-fiefs ('In recognition
of your Service to Me, Strephon, I hereby grant You, Sir James Arbithot the
Duchy of Whatsit, and Charge You with the responsibility of maintaining My
104th Fleet in a manner fit for War' ... I dont think the Imperium works
this way, but it's a big place with a long history).

The other possibility is multiple fiefs per family, with some of them being
sub-let (?subinfeudated?) to various younger siblings as life-fiefs (you
get it, but your kids dont inherit it). That way, Johnnie Thirdson can be
kept in the style to which he has become accustomed, but without breaking
up the Family Estates. It is kind of expected that Johnny Thirdson will try
to build up an independant asset base out of these revenues, so his kids
arent a drain on the family.

Other possibilities include Imperial Facilities as fiefs (eg you run the
starport), tax rights as fiefs (*thats* why refined fuel costs KCr 1 a
dton) and revenues from blocks of shares.

The other question is what does 'responsible' mean ... imagine a situation
where a noble is responsible for a world, but the world is not an Imperial
dependancy, and the noble has negligible ownership of assets on the planet,
no role in government and no tax rights. She is Duke of Whatsit, and that
and 2 credits gets her a beer anywhere on the planet. 

However, she is *still* the Duke of Whatsit, and it is expected that she
will be consulted if the Imperium has to make decisions about Whatsit.

>
>A child of a noble, who doesn't inherit a title, is still a
>noble, called what?  Does he/she have the same status as
>his/her parent?

Which side of the blanket were they born on ?

If legitimate, I'd say drop them one Trav Social level, or half a Gurps
level - two and one if illegitimate.

If they are the child of a Baron, call em a Baronet, and toss in a
knighthood (it's either 'Baronet Sir Captain James Arbuthot' or 'Captain
Sir James Arbuthot, Baronet' ... I cant remember).

The other thing you should do is get a copy of some big, complex family
tree, and pencil some names and jobs in ... if they are the child of a
Baron, they should know that so-and-so, the Regional Veep for Instellarms
is Fluffy's cousin, and that such-and-such, the President of X is married
to Bittie.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:04:06 +0100
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: Re: G:T Merchant

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>>From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
>Well, Traveller characters tend to be older than most RPG's 18 year olds,
>and I'd kinda assumed the character was in their late forties, and had
>spent most of the last 20 years being a Gentleman Trader.

Aah, but there's the rub! Where are his skill points in:
Acting (AKA Lying), Anthropology ('Know your customers', he's been at it for
20 years, remember?), Armoury (Just an example that assumes he's a gun
trader. Substitute/add another half-dozen knowledge skills to reflect the
fact that he should really know something about the stuff he's selling...),
Area Knowledge (sector, subsector, several worlds, maybe even some really
interesting regions (where he's had adventures)), Bard (AKA Being
Entertaining), Carousing (A merchant that can't *party*? Get real.), Detect
Lies (Kind of obvious, innit?), Economics (*Master* merchant, remember?),
Fast-Talk(the very essence of Power Salesmanship), Intelligence Analysis
(Actually, I'd prefer the one from GT: Far Trader, economic analysis(?), but
that's not out yet), Language (depends on region, but I'd expect at least
two or three), Law (Ok, his lawyer might handle this for him, but that would
just make him a fool. Trust me, I've been there. :-(, Leadership (He *does*
have underlings, doesn't he?), Research (or does he have a market department
that does it all for him?), Scrounging (At least if he used to be a free
trader before he struck it rich), Sports (Or any other hobby skills. Did he
*ever* have a life?), Streetwise (If he's ever done any, ahem, 'less than
legal' deals, this is a neccessity.), Writing (Ever written a prospectus to
attract investors?)

And defaults just don't cut it. After all, a default implies that he hasn't
actually spent any noticeable amounts of *time* on it... (I could probably
be talked into a half-point in most of the above, but not all.)

Oh, btw, the above is pretty much the skills I'd expect a successful
Merchant to have, give or take a few. As a *minimum* I'd expect him to come
*very* close to matching the Merchant template on GT75.

Or, to paraphrase Dr Kromm (SJG's Gurps Guru), in Gurps being an expert does
not mean super-high skill-levels, it means lots of breadth.1

>>Obvious munchkin material like this one should also
>Hey, I think this is a well-designed interesting character, albeit brutally
optimised.

Yeah, that's what I said. ;-)

>Note that I am not padding out the 40 points of disads with crap
>like 'Skinny', and

Oh, he's not an outright munchkin. He just displays severe munchkinoid
tendencies. I'm certain that with the right player he could be an
interesting addition to the party, given his monomaniacal tendencies. ;-)

>part of the point of the excersise is to show why we
>need more skills for Merchants - mutating Area Knowledge into Commodity
>Knowledge <commodity> is an obvious place to start.

Oh, I agree. You just triggered one of my Disadvantages. ;-)
Also, I think I came up with some pretty good workarounds above. Recently,
SJG's 'policy' has been that one should always try to 'reuse' old skills and
advantages rather than come up with even more. I tend to agree. At least to
the point that I always *try* to use existing ones first.

>>>Add a 100 point, available 15- Bodyguard-type Ally (30 points)
>>Which is - thank god - an NPC. Meaning that it should be played by the GM
>and *not* the player.
>I was thinking of the British TV show 'Minder', where the main character
>was a bodyguard for Mr Arthur Daley, a rather disreputable trader.

Hmm. Sounds interesting. I think it would be more fun if the 'Minder' was
the pc and the merchant the NPC dependent though. Or if *both* were pc's.
(I've actually played a character similar to the 'Minder' once, it was fun.)

>I was
>thinking that despite having paid points, the Minder is still drawing a
>fairly chunky salary. Which the player has to pay out, each and every
>month. I'm thinking on or about four grand a month

Well, average pay for a Bodyguard is Cr 900, so ~4 times that pay sounds
about right.

>>> <real minimaxers buy a 75 point Lawyer as a 'zero cost dependant' as
well>.
>>And the GM should then have said character (which is a Friend that appears
>>on a 9 or less *each session* (B38)) do something legally inappropriate
>>while 'trying to help', and be discovered, so the pc must try to get his
>>'friend' out of trouble. This *is* a dependant. Not a free Ally. See the
end
>>of the second paragraph on B38.)

>Oooooh, cool stuff *thinks if you can build Lazlo <Hunter S Thompson's
>Samoan Attorney> on 75 points*. There was me thinking a pet Attorney was
>merely an expensive habit ... (*blam* *blam* *blam* Trader :<fumbling with
>pistol> 'They're shooting at us ... is returning fire illegal in this
>juristdiction ?' <Minder draws and returns fire in a sustained and accurate
>manner> Lawyer '<gets out stopwatch>Yes, and you are on paid time *now*')

ROFLOL!

HEY! No fair! You're starting to convince me that this *would* be a fun
character! (If nothing else because it would be *so* enjoyable to hose him,
every now and then. ;-)

>>The GM should then note that according to Gurps rules (which should be
>>played by strictly, when dealing with munchkins. Slack is for roleplayers.
>>;-) the character spends 40 hours/week maintaining his job. This does
*not*
>>include adventuring.

>With $1.5 mill in cash and Merchant-21, your job *is* merchant venturing...

True. But I (and most bosses, come to think of it ;-) tend to go by the
guideline "If it's fun, it ain't work. Stop laughing and get to work!"
Remember Catbert, the Evil HR Director? So, that should be 40 hours of
mind-numbingly boring administration/management/beancounting on *top* of all
the fun adventuring stuff that he really doesn't have time to do, for the
tax papers have to be in by tomorrow morning at the latest, and he has a
stack of TASJ Form 342345 *this* high to deal with before noon, and... Oh
yeah, sleep would be nice too. And perhaps even some r&r? And, of course, if
he gets behind on his accounting, well, that's an "Adventure Opportunity",
innit? "The Taxman Cometh!", anyone? ;-)

> if you dont have at least a mill tied up in speculative cargo at any
>given time, I dont think you are playing the character right (personally, I
>think you need more potential for high-end money in G:T ... when starships
>are MCr 50 a throw, one and a half million isnt 'big money' any more).

You're probably right about that.

>>Combat Paralysis? He he he. At least the munchkin leabves the gm a good
way
>of getting rid of it. ;-) Unlikely in a real munchkin, but still fun. ;-)

>Note the highly-paid Minder ...

<Que massive amounts of full-auto fire from an assortment of thugs and
ne'er-do-wells.>
- -"Come *on* boss! We gotta skedaddle out of here! STAT!"
- - <silence>
- -"BOSS!!! NOW!!!"
- - <silence>
- -"Sigh." (Hoists boss up in a fireman's carry and runs off, dodging bullets
to to the left and to the right.) "I'm too old for this..."

I hope the Minder remembered to buy some extra Strength. Or at least some
pain medication for that aching back. ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 01:38:48 +0000
From: Matt Clonfero <Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long) >

Frank Pitt wrote:

>>And also have the UK not cancel Blue ( Ummm? can't remember name -
>Steel?)
>
>Blue Steel wasn't cancelled, it was scrapped after several years
>service. It was the UK's
>tactical* nuke delivery system, and somewhere along the line someone
>decided that Britain didn't need tactical nukes.

I think Dom was thinking of Black Arrow, the UK's satellite launch
system that got through testing only to be cut :<

>*( I say "tactical", because it was designed for launch from Vulcan's
>and such, and the Vulcan fleet was never (IMO) large enough to be
>considered a "strategic" resource such as SAC )

Blue Steel (and the whole V-Bomber force) was a strategic instrument,
since it was targeted at the (then) Soviet homeland; not at troop
formations in Germany. For those, we had the Lance missile (albeit under
US control).

>Which reminds me, anyone know if elements of SAC are still "out there"
>cruising the stratosphere 24 hours a day ?

No. SAC has been disbanded, with its forces rolled into Air Combat
Command. The standing airborne alert is also stood down. however, if the
worse should happen, the US has a Strategic Command structure that can
claim nuclear-capable forces from the pool.

Aetherem Vincere
Matt
- -- 
Matt Clonfero: Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk    | To err is human, To forgive
My employer and I have a deal - I don't speak | is not Air Force Policy.
for them, and they don't speak for me.        |   -- Anon, ETPS.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1349
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 2 1999     Volume 1998 : Number 1350



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Pluto's Secret
Re: Nobility
Re: HEPlaR (was: Re: DSR...)
Re: Noblity
Re: Ravioli Gun
Re: Pluto's Secret
Re: Pluto's Secret
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long) >
GURPS Starship Crew Questions
OT: Online References
Traveller Auction at ebay
Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (Texas Issues) 
Re: SJG TNS: The Plot thickens...
Mercenary Transport Ship (T4)
Re: Online References
Trojan Reach
Re: Ravioli Railgun
Re; Imperial Grand Survey
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 20:45:49 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Pluto's Secret

> Well it could be that all races in the Traveller universe are minor, as
> the Droyne may have developed Time Travel first and stole the Jump Drive
> off the Solomani.  Then they went back in time and gave it to themselves
> before anyone else realised, and fabricated the story surrounding the
Coyns.
 
> Dom

Now stop that, Dom, it's naughty!

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 08:55:45 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Nobility

At 22:59 2-1-99, Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>If they are the child of a Baron, call em a Baronet, and toss in a
>knighthood (it's either 'Baronet Sir Captain James Arbuthot' or 'Captain
>Sir James Arbuthot, Baronet' ... I cant remember).

Captain Sir James Arbuthot, Bart.  The "Sir" is treated as if it were part
of the name, so any military, medical, or other title will go before it
(Major Sir Thomas, Doctor Sir Francis, or Professor Sir Aethelbeohrt).  And
the "Bart" goes at the end.

Hate to have to admit this 8), but I'm not sure exactly how Brit rules go -
I believe the child of a Baron is "The Honourable..." and the child of any
higher titled noble is "Lord ..." or "Lady ..." - no other titles, unless
they earn them on their own, though the eldest son may use one of Daddy's
lesser titles as a "courtesy" title; thus, the children of the Marquis of
Snowdon are David, Viscount Linley, and Lady Sarah Chatto.

James

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 09:33:35 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: HEPlaR (was: Re: DSR...)

Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com> writes:
>> 2.  (Canonical) TNE, by removing thruster plates from the available
>> thrust agencies, violated CT and MT canon.  Any ships designed under CT
>> or MT were completely invalidated, as the underlying assumption that
>> thrust was always available, so long as power was available for the
>> maneuver drive, was removed without (AFAIK) explanation.
> 
>It was never stated (early on, anyway) that CT drive were
>reationless. As I recall, there was a HG rule (1st edition?) that
>allowed the use of the drives as if they were a fusion gun (very
>Niven like :-)

Merrick's right.

The early days of CT used some form of reaction drive. Check out the art
in the early Journals - full of ships riding pillars of flame into the
sky. 

The High Guard rule was that fighters could use their drive as a fusion
gun of the same strength as their acceleration. They did this by riding in
close (letting teh defensive guns get a shot at them, then brakng _hard_.
This was a dandy tactic, and the best way if using fighters to damage an
enemy ship, as otherwise the strongest battery a fighter could mount was
2-3. In fact, I designed several fighters without weapons, just 6G drives!

IIRC, it was MT that made reactionless thrusters canon.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 07:46:38 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Noblity

> From: David P. Summers <summers@alum.mit.edu>
> Subject: Noblity
> 
> I'm trying to recall exactly how the various noble ranks in
> the Imperium work (since I have a charcter who wants to play
> a Baroness, Status 3 in GT).
> 
> MT says a Marquis (a Count in GT) is responsible for one
> world "generally a large an important one".
> Is a Baron responsible for a "minor" world or does that fact
> that it doesn't menion a world in the description for a Baron
> mean that they are never responsible for worlds?  It also
> says a Baron "may" have a fief.  Does that mean
> that a parent can pass on a title without a fief?
> If one only has a fief, does he have
> no obligation as a member of the Imperium (other than to behave
> properly)?

OK, a Marquis (I like like the title of Marquis better than Count) is
responsible for one "large & important world" correct...  IMTU, that is the
main world in any system...  So Regina in the Spinward Marches would have a
Marquis in charge of it...

Now Barons on the other hand may or may not have a fief....  If a Baron is
an "Honorary" Baron meaning he or she might have gotten this noble rank say
because of military, scout or merchant services...  Also the rank of Baron
may be given to Merc Commanders, where the Merc Unit is the fief...  As for
other forms of fiefs, I would have to say that a Baron on a main world my
be in charge of a large area such as a continent(sp) or the world's moon or
a minor planet in a system.  For example IMTU, Terra is ruled by a Marquis,
but Mars is ruled by a Baron who is under the count & on Terra, North
America, South America, Europe, Nothern Africa, Southern Africa, Russia,
China, SE Asia, India, & Austraila are all ruled by Barons who are under
the Marquis...  As for Barons without fiefs, well those people do have the
title of Baron & the rank of Baron, but are not part of the Imperial Moot,
but also are in line for a fief...  If one opens up where for some reason
there are no heirs...

Think about it, you have a PC who is a Baron without a fief...  A fief
opens up for rule & his or her name is at the top of the list...  But, the
fief is in the Solomani Rim & he or she is in the Spinward Marches...  So
it can be a race to get him or her there in time...  A great way to play a
champaign...

> A child of a noble, who doesn't inherit a title, is still a
> noble, called what?  Does he/she have the same status as
> his/her parent?

No, but he or she is at a much lower rank...  If the parent is say a
Marquis, then the child is a Baron & placed on the list to get a fief... 
If the parent is a Baron, then the child is a Lord...  And, no he does not
have the same status as the parent, but a slightly lower one...  But, also
can rise higher than the parent...

Btw, would someone comment on these thoughts, so I can know how on-base or
off-base I am...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 06:58:45 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
> Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun
> > >Wouldn't canned pork be more dangerous?  How about Spam?
> > 
> >         NOOOOOOOOOO! NO MORE SPAM! PLEASE! ANYTHING BUT SPAM!
> How about the strawberry tart?  That doesn't have any Spam.  Well, it's
> got _some_ Spam in it....

But, I don't like Spam....

> ObTrav:  Can you imagine some AAB researcher's reaction upon finding
> copies of Monty Python episodes?  "_This_ is the culture that brought
> down the Ziru Sirka?!?"

Yes, I can...  I can also see a revival of Monty Python happening durring
the ROM...  As well as the Solomani Party....  And the Solomani
Confederation...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 07:48:44 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Pluto's Secret

> From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Pluto's Secret
> 
> I think it's probably the consensus that there's an Ancients site on
Pluto.
> Certainly that seems the most popular...  Something like Antiquity, i
suppose?
> Maybe working artifacts and/or an installation?  I don't like the humans
just
> found and copied an Ancients jump drive theory.

Maybe Pulto has the remains of Walt Disney there?  It could also be a place
like the Skunk Works, where new technology is tested by the military...  Or
it could hold the remains of a base of a unknown, but powerful Major
Race...

> Gary

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 07:59:55 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Pluto's Secret

> From: Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
> Subject: Re: Pluto's Secret
> 
> > Well it could be that all races in the Traveller universe are minor, as
> > the Droyne may have developed Time Travel first and stole the Jump
Drive
> > off the Solomani.  Then they went back in time and gave it to
themselves
> > before anyone else realised, and fabricated the story surrounding the
> Coyns.
>  
> > Dom
> 
> Now stop that, Dom, it's naughty!

But, funny...

> Alan Bradley

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 14:47:04 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (long) >

Matt Clonfero <Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Frank Pitt wrote:
>>Blue Steel wasn't cancelled, it was scrapped after several years
>>service. It was the UK's
>>tactical* nuke delivery system, and somewhere along the line someone
>>decided that Britain didn't need tactical nukes.
>
>I think Dom was thinking of Black Arrow, the UK's satellite launch
>system that got through testing only to be cut :<

That's the one I was thinking of.....

Another waste of good money, much like the vandal-like destruction of the
TSR2 :-(

And not funding HOTOL :-(

Dom


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 10:23:45 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: GURPS Starship Crew Questions

After much holiday cheer (and losing my heart to an _extremely_ cute girl,
aged 4), I'm putting the finishing touches on GT Shipyard.

Aeron suggested including more detailed crew descriptions (with actual
skills listed). Is there a general consensus that this would be useful?
Would this be a reasonable thing to switch on/off under user control?

If people want it, can someone give me algorithms for determining
positions/skills required/recommended for bridge crews? I know that there
are suggestions in the book, but I need to know how smaller bridge crews
would combine positions.  Another alternative would be to have these
positions available under user control, but that complicates crewing and
requires changing my file structure (again) so if I do this I only want to
do this once.

How much cargo before a Cargo Master is recommended?  Would there be more
than one cargo master for really big ships? (Eg. a 100000 dTon freighter.)

Would carriers have a flight control officer on the bridge? Other
positions?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 08:37:50 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: OT: Online References

Sorry for a quick off-topic question, but I think this one is fairly
non-flammable: anybody know of any good online references for math
and engineering? Specifically looking for geometrical properties
(area, volume, centroid) for various shapes, and fundamental
mechanics/dynamics. All my references are currently unavailable due
to an impending move, and I need to look some stuff up.
- -- ------------------------------------------------------------ --
   Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj 
   House for sale in Colorado Springs!
   http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 10:40:49 -0500
From: "Nathan Mezel" <hotchip@bignet.net>
Subject: Traveller Auction at ebay

Less than 24 hours are left to get in on some great OOP Traveller items.
This includes AHL, many alien modules, Travellers Digest, V&V, JTAS and
more.  Point your browser to

http://pages.ebay.com/aw/search.html and enter my email address in the
seller search box.

Thanks for your time,

Nathan Mezel

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 08:43:12 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Why Railguns Aren't Starship weapons (was Re: Ravioli Gun)

At 01:05 pm 1/1/99 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>         (d) If there are more than two attackers, with some
separation,
>> it'll be impossible to lay in a right angle course to all of them.
>
>Make that more than *three* attackers. Three points define a plane.
And
>regardless of whether or not the target is *in* that plane, it can
lay
>in a course at right angles to said plane. 

	True. But a course at right angles to the plane does not necessarily
mean it'll be at right angles to the line of sight from each of the
attackers, which was what I was talking about. Evading at right
angles to the line of sight maximizes the offset from the "ballistic"
point, which is the ideal situation. With two attackers you can do
it. With three, except for some special cases, you can't.
- -- ------------------------------------------------------------ --
   Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj 
   House for sale in Colorado Springs!
   http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/House

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 02:10:04 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (Texas Issues) 

From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
>   Still, i'm having difficulty suspending my disbelief over teh secession
> thing, as presented so far.  Of course, i'd be opposed to it in Real Life
> (tm), but think it *could* be pretty neat for the history of Traveller's
Terra
> IMTU, as well (though i haven't gone near Terra *yet*).  

Yeah, I wouldn't support it in the Real World either, and I don't really
care if it happens or not in the TU, but if it amuses some people, and
there's a decent pseudo-explanation, why not?

> > In support of the secession, let me present the following:  By 2023,
> > the United States has been engaged in a three-year Trade War with
> > Japan and other major powers of the time, and are now two years into
> > an eight-year long Depression.  Things are bad; the US has not yet
> > recovered from the economic straightjacket it has found itself in.

IMTU, the US would have had some mishaps in international relations as
well, like some poorly judged military involvements (eg Vietnam, Somalia,
etc), and/or worsening of relations with historical allies (perhaps
including Australia - I've got some fairly well-defined ideas for Australia
IMTU that are almost certainly different from those of anyone else on the
list!).  It would also be in a deep crisis of political leadership, with
the tradition parties in disarray.

The end result of all this would be turmoil in the US threatening to blow
the whole place up.  ("this" being the economic, diplomatic and political
crises).

In other words, the US, at least temporarily, goes down the Russian road.

> I just don't see what the US would gain by allowing Texas to secede.  It
loses
> alot and gains little.  Hostilities tend to be good for economies (it was
WWII
> that ended the Great Depression, no?).  In addition, all US assets and
tax
> revenues from Texas are lost.  In addition, other states (particularly
> California) would want to do the same and the whole thing would snowball.
 
First, who is "the US"?  Is it the grunts who would have to fight a civil
war, or the politicians that would send them?  Maybe the "elites" are
keener to keep Texas in the Union BY FORCE than ordinary people, even if
"ordinary people" don't support the secession as such.  This would be
particularly likely if the US government is seen as incompetent and
corrupt.

In other words, "ordinary Americans" might not be too thrilled about
fighting other "ordinary Americans", irrespective of high-falutin'
arguments about the economy.

Add some organisation, and the "peace movement" becomes a threat to the US
government. 

Hostilities tend to be good for economies as long as the economies in
question aren't the ones being bombed....

Other states might not want to do the same if the secession is widely
perceived as an incredibly stupid idea.  Alternatively, the secessionist
movement is strongest in Texas, and only exists to a far lesser degree in
other states.  Perhaps, the government is afraid that leaning on Texas
would only result in anti-government elements gaining strength in other
states, or would bog down into guerilla warfare.

> I just need something more substantive that would allow Texas to secede,
the
> US to allow it, that doesn't bring more than half the other states along
w/ it
> (to individual independance or a new nation).  Course noone says the USS
> Starleaper (or whatever) has to be from the same USA, as is current today
(or
> c 1977 even), but could be one that is much different.  Maybe the
President
> and Congress got some megalomania and decided to conquer North America or
the
> Western Hemisphere?  Nah... don't want to incite a jingoism flame
war^H^H^H^H
> discussion.  : )

Well, I suspect it would be the same US - it just may be a bit battered and
bruised.  It may have had other secessions, or authoritarian governments,
or simply may have almost collapsed into revolution, or all of the above,
but somehow it scraped through.  The details of that story should be mostly
up to the individual referee, but it should be an interesting, complex,
sometimes tragic, and sometimes heroic story, just like US history in the
past.

The thing to remember with future histories is:  there's likely to be as
much "history" in the future as there has been in the past. That is, as
much weird stuff is going to happen in the 21st century as happened in the
19th or 20th.

> > Third, the Chelsea Clinton line, while humorous, will get old soon.
> > I will most likely remove it.  However, it does show a point:
> > Margaret Inch is not the first female US President; there have been
> > others before her.  Also, I get a personal kick out of imagining
> > Chelsea's campaign slogan.  She runs Republican and starts most
> > speeches with "While I may be my father's daughter, I have proven
> > that I am not my father."  I apologize should this have offended
> > anyone, and hope that it is taken in the spirit of fun in which it
> > was intended.

My only beef with this line is that it would be a bit obscure in ten years
time!  Sometime later this year I will have been playing Traveller for
twenty years, and who knows how long I'll be playing it in the future? 
This Timeline is good stuff, and I will probably use it and keep using it
until it
gets significantly overwritten by Marc or someone "authorised". 

My only mild complaints about the Timeline are:  
I still can't quite see a "Sino-Australian" bloc being called the "Western
League".  Sure, it's at the western end of the Pacific, but it still would
require a very serious shift in the way people tend to see the world.  OK,
it may be a Pacific-oriented, rather than Atlantic-oriented world, but I
still can't see the term coming into use.  Of course, the Timeline itself
has picked it up from Prometheus Rising, so I guess it's up to Andrew to
decide if he wants to keep it.
 
I'm also not quite sure about the "Sino-Australian" bloc itself.  I was, of
course, the original big-mouth who proposed that Australia would turn its
face north.  That was mostly because I had the ideas for what would happen
in Australia that I referred to above.  Unfortunately China isn't really
part of them!  

Perhaps what it actually is, is an alliance between incompatible partners
against the US, rather than a coherent bloc in itself.  That is, there is
China, and its allies, and Australia, and its allies, and maybe some
others, held together mainly by expediency.  That of course is not
necessarily how the rest of the world sees it.

Yes, that's it, IMTU.  I can fudge it - it's not a problem.  Cool!  

Sorry for thinking out loud.  I actually deleted most of it.  None of what
I wrote above should be taken as anything other than IMTU.

The point is that the framework we have is, and should be, flexible enough
to cope with lots of differences of interpretation.  It works with my
interpretations, which are pretty extreme in some cases.  How does it go
for everyone else?

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 17:06:22 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: SJG TNS: The Plot thickens...

At 22:05 01.01.99 -0500, you wrote:
>At 21:09 1-1-99 +0100, Volker A. Greimann wrote:
>>When i was browsing the SJG Traveller pages, i noticed 
>>two new TNS messages. The plot thickens, it seems....
>
>Huh?  After reading your post, I went straight to the GURPS Trav page, but
>I didn't see anything I hadn't already read a while ago.

Hmm, i meant the two messages concerning Norrisand Isis trip to Capital.
They were new to me. (And not sent to me although i had subscribed)
Volker
- ---
Volker A. Greimann, greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 11:40:57 EST
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Mercenary Transport Ship (T4)

Ship Class:   Calvin Class Mercenary Transport     QSDS		TL-12
Tons: 500 ton Slab-S					Cost: Mcr 120.5
Crew: 20				Passengers: 43	Low berth: 10
					Lrg State: 3, Small State: 40, Bunk: 20
Cargo: 35 tons 			TL-12 Standard Civilian Controls/Bridge
FC Rating: 4				TL-12 Improved Commo
Size:	8				Jump 2, 50 fuel/parsec ,  105 tons fuel tank
Missile Turret x2 (4)			2-G Thruster Plate, 252 MW
Sandcastersx2			Power Plant 2  500 MW
Spacious Hanger (30 ton)		MFD: 4 missiles at a time
Minimal Hanger (10 ton)		TL-12 Improved Sensors A2 P3 J0
Missile magazine: 3 tons		Armor 20  Structure 16

Vehicles:   Slow Boatx1
COP-7, Close Orbit Personnel,   Imperial Transpod x1 (Emperor's Vehicles p.79)

Crew: Eng x2, Elecx1, Maneuver x2, Gunn x3, Small Craft x6, Command x3,
Steward x1, Medic x2.  Troops:  20-56
2 Sick bays, 2 beds each

Troop Unit: The ship can carry 20 troopers in regular occupancy, an additional
20 can be carried in the bunk section (usually under influence of Fast Drug,
to minimize discomfort for week-long interstellar trips).  If troop commander
and Ship XO are willing to share staterooms, 2 additional troopers can be
carried.   The 10 low berths are primarily used for transport of critically
wounded troops or prisoners, but can be used to carry 10 extra troops if
needed.  Likewise 4 could be squeezed into the sick bay.    So a unit of 20
can be comfortably carried, a maximum of 56 could be squeezed in.  If troop
unit and ships crew are integrated, then the Gunners, Steward, Small Craft
Crew and one of the medics can make up an additional reserve squad of 11 men.

Notes: The Mercenary Transport is meant to deliver a small unit of mercenary
troops and their equipment to other worlds.   The vessel itself can land and
off-load all troops and equipment or troops and equipment can be ferried down
by ship's vehicles.  The Imperial transpod COP-7 can land 20 troops at a time
and has fair armor protection (Armor 20 in Ground Combat rating) and is the
principal hot-zone troop lander.  The Slow Boat carries up to 6 passengers and
10 displacement tons of cargo and is usually used to land the unit's vehicles
and heavy equipment, furthermore the boat's cargo hold is used to supplement
the Transports 35 tons of cargo space.
	The missile batteries and sand casters give the Transport moderate combat
ability, but the vessel is not meant to engage enemy vessels offensively.  The
missile launchers are often used as fire support for the troop unit on the
ground, often the missiles are outfitted with laser-designated guidance
systems to allow troops to call in fire accurately.  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 11:20:55 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Online References

http://www.caco.demon.co.uk/tech/Hulls.htm
scroll down
it has surface area formulas and volume formulas for all kinds of shapes.
It may also have info on hull material volume.

TV

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 06:28:12 +1300
From: Blair Lynch-Blosse <blairlb@waikato.ac.nz>
Subject: Trojan Reach

Hi there,

While working overtime over the break I began mapping the Trojan Reach
sector and have a few rapid fire questions.

Firstly, can anyone point me in the right direction to some information on
the history of the Trojan Reach/lower Spinward Marches, esp the space
around Pax Rulin? Also, is there an reason why Pa'an is a Zhodani world
when it is a really long way from the consulate boarders? I've got a theory
(read: nice little story) that could be a LONG way from the truth, or is it
just an anoying typo?

Thanks,

Blair.



 -----------------------------------------------------------
  Blair Lynch-Blosse
  Science Technician
  Earth Sciences Department
  University of Waikato
  Private Bag 3105 		                175.19'E 37.47'S
  Hamilton                "Trust No One. Deny Everything" - X-Files
  NEW ZEALAND                             "Fight the Future!" - X-Files
 ------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:51:22 EST
From: SunTsi@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ravioli Railgun

M.Vaillaincourt wrote:
<        Hi, Merrick....
<        Or have the missile capable of jamming the crap out of the CIWS
<fire-control systems with active jamming and decoys...  I am reading over
<the Definitive Sensor Rules these days, and I am going to write up a
<"jamming" set of optional/advanced rules for them...  If you can't see it
<you can't shoot it...
Nice idea, but based on wrong assumption: Jamming means flooding the area
with white noise. You do this to evade/prevent identification but not
detection.
In fact jamming does give away your position. You are talking about CLOAKING
not jamming...but methinks cloaking is definitely non-canon...
Andreas Reimer

"The Techniques ,trained in the national people`s army, the other armed forces
and
 in the socialist brother-armies and mastered by the socialist Soldier
guaranty protection against a surprise nuclear strike of the enemy."
- - Handbuch Militrisches Grundwissen, NVA 
  [handbook military basics, national people`s army]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:47:56 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re; Imperial Grand Survey

- -
>Already done, and will be released as soon as I fix an annoying memory
>bug. Imperial Grand Survey lets you click on a hex and then generate the
>system (command-G shortcut).  Every hex can be edited.  Keep your eye on
>the BITS pages (www.bits.org.uk) for more information.

Rob, from everything I hear, your software is excellent, and I'd be happy to
use it..except I don't have a Mac, and won't be getting one for the
forseeable future. Believe me, to use some of the stuff I've been hearing
about, I'd seriously consider getting one.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:14:14 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues)

actually....

If Texas would succeed form the Union i could see several other states
following them...  

Such as:  California, New Mexico, Arizonia, and possbility Nevada and Utah.
This is since the South-West has become the location of the modern
successionist sentiment of today.  To many stupid laws have been pasted that
have started to rob individuals of their property rights (making it illegal to
farm and use your property as you want just because of some stupid rat is
living in the dirt) and the right to defend them selfs from predators (making
it illegal to kill wild wolves that are killing your cattle, other domestic
animals, and possiblity your own little children).  to many in the US this is
seen as an abtursive federal government, and should be replaced with something
more like what we started out our little experiment with (an extremely limited
Federal Power instead of one trying to get into our lives on every level).

as for those of you who do not like the idea of succession, you should
remember that many of us southerners (espeically us North Carolinians) didnt
want to succeed either until the Union ordered us to form an army and declare
war on the rest of the South BEFORE fireing on Fort Sumter. 

 I DO NOT want to see the USA fall apart, and as a former member of the US
Navy, i swore an oath to defend the US Consititution form its enemies both
foreign and DOMESTIC just like every other US Miltiary Man and Woman.  

And the dissolution of the US would be a major assault on the Consititution,
but i DO NOT see the US Military getting invoulved in a Civil War this time.
There are way to many varibles invouled (no uneducated immergrants to fill the
swelling ranks of the US Army this time), but i do see the US Government
maybee calling on the UN to send in peacekeeprs to stop the successionist form
succeeding in their Bid for Independance. 

But I do think that governmental powers should be exersised more on the local
level than the federal level without fear of federal reprisals (like with
TEXAS when the speed and drinking age limits where forced on them since the
Feds told them they pass it or they would not get any Federal funds to keep
the FEDERAL HIGHWAYS up and running).

Currently, there are many highly intelligent people that have started to
discuss the possiblity of another civil war in american based on regional and
ethnic lines due to the Politics of Excuslionism and Factionalism that has
been supported since the 60's by race baiters and others who benifit form
keeping ALL Americans factionalised (and this is possiblity happing in other
countries as well).  

But a GRAND REPUBLIC OF TEXAS might be more possible that many realise if the
Federal Government dose something really STUPID that violates the Thrust that
the common citizen has with the Federal government, like outlaw the ownership
of private fire arms OR push through the ANTI-Hording Laws making it illegal
for common citizens to stockpile FOOD, Ammo, and other goods for their use in
case of an emergency (this law is currently undergoing a rewrite so it will
even effect the mormans and their practice of keeping between 1 to 3 years of
food onhand).  

So the possiblity of a modern War of Succession is a possiblity, as ugly as it
is, we must recognise and admit is possible.

richard (who is waiting for the flames to come as some find these simple words
offensive)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1350
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 2 1999     Volume 1998 : Number 1351



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Software for download
Old SJG Traveller Material - Story behind them?
Magazine for T5?
Re: HEPlaR (was: Re: DSR...)
Re: Re; Imperial Grand Survey
Planetary Cataclysms?
Re: Calendars
Freelance Traveller: Reviews Wanted
Re: Old SJG Traveller Material - Story behind them?
TUSCALOOSA-class Heavy Cruiser
Re: Two monitors on Win95
Re: Vilani Provincial Governor
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues)
Re: HIWG Traveller Writers' Guild Digest V1 #317
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues)
Re: Pluto's secret
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Holy Days

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 18:42:53 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Software for download

On Fri, 1 Jan 1999 19:12:23 -0500, SD Mooney
<dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:

>jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin) wrote:

>>Folks, two favors, if you please:

>Go on....

>>First:
>>For a number of reasons, Freelance Traveller has chosen to make
>>its Computer Connection links directly to the file, rather than
>>asking our readers to rummage your site (often, there are no
>>clear directions to find the file - I've had to guess at some,
>>and I don't have a good record for first guesses.  This can be
>>frustrating).  Some of you have gotten into the habit of
>>including the version number in the file name.  This is bad,
>>because it means that you have to notify us when you release a
>>new version, so that we can update the URL.  Can you say "broken
>>links"?  The best thing to do is to keep the file name
>>consistent, without version numbers.  Especially if, like me, you
>>don't always have time to update the web pages when you upload
>>the software.

>But it is a lot harder to keep track of versions without this. Especially
>if you can't open the software on your platform. As a result I haven't
>changed the webpage location for the material I'm hosting since my site
>went up. If you point to Rob Prior's software at

>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/RPS.html

>I will keep that URL the only one. I cannot guarantee that version numbers
>will not change with the software (eg Andrew M-V's Pocket Empires material
>at BITS), as in some cases I cannot open the software to read/check the
>version as it runs on those 78rpm PC thingees.

OK, an alternative: Most web server systems these days run on an
OS that allows you to establish what are called "links" on Unix -
and I think "aliases" on the Mac work essentially the same way.
In essence, they're an entry in the directory to a file that has
another directory elsewhere in the file system.  If you provide
such a link without the version number, it would be just as good
- - if you keep that link updated.  Which would really be no more
difficult than keeping a web page updated, but eliminates the
need to update the web page, as the Web page can keep the
unchanging alias, while you use the versioned filename for
maintenance purposes.  I do know it's a lot easier to create or
change a UNIX link or a Mac alias than it is to update a web
page...

If people are resistant to doing this, then I'mm going to have to
ask that you all make an effort to notify me when a Computer
Connection program gets updated, so I can update _my_ web pages.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 18:43:02 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Old SJG Traveller Material - Story behind them?

When I say 'old', I mean it - my guess, since I never heard of it
until seeing it on Marc's list, is that it dates back to the
early Classic era.

Does anybody know how these items came to be?
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 18:43:07 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Magazine for T5?

Actually, more like three.

I've seen three different ways of handling a Traveller magazine
that I'd call successful - certainly, none of the magazines
failed because of what they did; it seems to me that it was
always outside pressures that closed them down.

The first one was, naturally, the original Journal of the
Travellers' Aid Society.  This magazine had a primary focus item
for each issue, and contained other useful items as well - short
adventures, new equipment, alien races, animals, NPCs, and so on.
Lots of stuff, very nice to have.

The next was the Travellers' Digest, from DGP.  This was built
around an ongoing adventure, and recounted that adventure as its
central feature.  This was then used as a framework to hang other
things on - the same sorts of things that JTAS had, but all tied
in to the central adventure.  Great reading, and provided more
context for the material than JTAS.  Major disadvantage - _they_
ran the adventure, not you.  It was like a multi-installment
version of "Raconteur's Rest" in Freelance Traveller.

The third was the MegaTraveller Journal.  In a sense, this was a
"Travellers' Digest in miniature"; each issue had a complete
adventure, and used that central adventure to hang supplemental
information from.  The major difference is that MTJ adventures
were ready for you to run, like Freelance Traveller's "Active
Measures", rather than a serialized story, like "Raconteur's
Rest".

All three have their benefits, and all three fit into slightly
different niches. (Just out of curiosity: which style was Sword
of the Knight's Traveller Chronicle done in?)  I'd like to see a
T5-focussed magazine; I'd be willing to try to write for it.
Which format should it be in?  Or should there be three
magazines, one in each format?

I await what I hope will be a lively and interesting debate.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 12:25:33 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: HEPlaR (was: Re: DSR...)

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 1/1/99 7:54:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, wombat@premier.net
> writes:
> 
> << (Canonical) TNE, by removing thruster plates from the available
>  thrust agencies, violated CT and MT canon.  Any ships designed under CT
>  or MT were completely invalidated, as the underlying assumption that
>  thrust was always available, so long as power was available for the
>  maneuver drive, was removed without (AFAIK) explanation.
> 
>  <<snip>> >>
> 
> Not necessarily. I'm a CT freak, and I always assumed that one of the reasons
> that the power plant needed so much fuel (1 percent of ship's displacement
> tonnage per powerplant number) was to provide reaction mass for the manuever
> drives. Admittedly I know very little about TNE and am not a gearhead or
> techie to boot, but I thought that the thruster plates were where the reaction
> took place and where the reaction mass was expelled.... This Heplar-Thruster
> plate arguement always confused me, because I thought that the CT manuever
> drive used elements of both... Please enlighten me....
> 
The issue is not so much the mechanics of thruster plate technology, but
the shortening of ships' legs.  In CT, ships had an "essentially
unlimited number of accelerations (at least 288)" [B2, pg 6].  Page 1 of
B2 indicates that "transit times to a point at least 100 planetary
diameters out adds a total of approximately 20 hours to the whole
trip."  Page 1 also states that "constant acceleration, turnaround, and
constant deceleration are assumed."  Based on 10 minute space combat
turns (B2, pg 22], we have at least 48 hours of combat maneuver (288/6),
_in addition to_ at least 20 hours of routine acceleration.  There is no
indication in Book 2 that greater G-numbers affect the duration of
acceleration available.

From HG:  "Fuel consumption for maneuver drives is inconsequential, and
is assumed to be part of the power plant operation, _regardless of the
degree of maneuver undertaken_."  [emphasis added]

Most TNE ship designs I've seen on the Web have 20-60 G-turns of
maneuver fuel.  _Much_ shorter legs, wouldn't you agree?   Since I don't
have the TNE equivalent of the BROADSWORD Mercenary Cruiser, let's
assume that it has 75 G-turns of fuel.  That means that, at 3G
acceleration, the TNE Merc Cruiser has only 25 turns of acceleration
before dipping into Jump fuel.  OTOH, my good old Book 2 Type C can
easily maneuver for 48 _hours_, plus have at least 20 hours left for
routine operations.  The upscale HG variant has _four weeks_ of
acceleration (minus a week or so set aside for Jump space power plant
operations).

> Seth

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:36:00 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Re; Imperial Grand Survey

Keep your eye on
>>the BITS pages (www.bits.org.uk) for more information.


ANyone else having problems with this page?
I have not been able to access it at all.

TV

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:42:07 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Planetary Cataclysms?

Has anyone incorporated planetary cataclysms and "near-misses" ("near miss",
that was a near hit!) into their campaign and maybe had native mythologies
on low-tech worlds result from these events?

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 19:19:10 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Calendars

On Sat, 2 Jan 1999 08:19:49 -0500, shadow@krypton.rain.com
(Leonard Erickson) wrote:

>In mail you write:

>> Some interesting reading on the subject of calendars can be found
>> in the Calendar FAQ (which can be found in the usual places for
>> Usenet FAQs) - it discusses a _lot_ of different calendars, with
>> some information as to their derivations and how they work.  Even
>> though virtually the entire world currently uses the Gregorian
>> calendar for general purposes, some of these other calendars,
>> such as the Jewish, Islamic, and Chinese calendars, are still
>> used for religious purposes.  One can reasonably expect the same
>> thing to happen in the Traveller milieu; local calendars will
>> continue to be used, more or less depending on the relative
>> significance of offworld contact in the affairs of the world.

>For what it's worth, the Imperial Calendar is actually the "World
>Calendar" or the "International Calendar" with the serial numbers filed
>off. I'd have to check my notes to see which it is.

I think it's the International Calendar you're thinking of; I
know that the World Calendar had explicit months - 13 of them,
with 28 days each, and "World Day" at the end of the year.  Plus
the intercalary "Leap Day" between the sixth and seventh months.
But even the International Calendar with the serial numbers filed
off isn't the Imperial Calendar; the IC would have had an
accommodation for the intercalary day, which the Imperial
Calendar doesn't.

>> I'd really like to hear from Those Who Know what the exact
>> corresponding dates and times are, so I can write a correct
>> calendar program to convert between the various calendars.

>So would I. I've got some old notes, but it would *really* be nice if
>someone (Marc Miller, perhaps?) would once and for all set official
>date equivalences. 

I'd appreciate it if you'd forward or post what info you have.

>Though when you get right down to it, the only *real* difference it'll
>make in the programs is one data statement per calendar. Namely, what
>Julian Day number to use as "0" for that calendar. 

Well, yes.  Although my first cut at the program (I have it
around somewhere) actually used "Julian minutes" rather than
Julian days, to simplify somewhat the calculations against the
varying day lengths.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 03:17:28 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Freelance Traveller: Reviews Wanted

With the help of Marc Miller, Freelance Traveller has acquired a
nearly-complete list of released Traveller materials (if you find
any errors or omissions in it, please let both Marc and I know!).
This will be accessible through the Traveller FAQ at Freelance
Traveller, and is already available on Marc's site at
http://members.aol.com/SFRPG/.

This gives us a wealth of opportunities, provided we can get our
readers to help:  Start digging into your archives of Traveller
materials, find the items that you have liked best - from any
era, for any version of Traveller, from any publisher - and WRITE
PRODUCT REVIEWS.  Don't feel obligated to limit yourself to
currently available items; don't even feel obligated to limit
yourself to things on the list (it's not perfect, I've already
found an omission) - but WRITE PRODUCT REVIEWS.

Then, send 'em to Freelance Traveller at freetrav@hotmail.com.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 11:24:41 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Old SJG Traveller Material - Story behind them?

>When I say 'old', I mean it - my guess, since I never heard of it
>until seeing it on Marc's list, is that it dates back to the
>early Classic era.
>
>Does anybody know how these items came to be?
>--
>Jeff Zeitlin
>jzeitlin@cyburban.com

In the 80's SJG's did a lot of little 'cardstock figures' for various
systems.  IIRC, there are also Fantasy and Champions "Super Hero" ones.
I've not seen the Traveller ones, but IIRC the ones I saw were fairly well
done.  They were quite simular to the ones found in the FASA boxed sets of
traveller deckplans.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 13:21:24 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: TUSCALOOSA-class Heavy Cruiser

This is the same ship that I posted to my Web site a couple of days
ago.  Comments are welcomed.

(BTW, you can get the spreadsheet for this ship on my Web site....[hint,
hint])

Tuscaloosa-class Imperial Heavy Cruiser

Tons: 70000std (SL Wedge Hypersonic) 
Dimensions: 310.6m x 213.2m x 88.7m
Volume: 98000m3
Cargo: 800std (8 hatches, Hdl: 8x40t/Ar: 10 [29]) 
Mass (L/C): 1,093,114t/1,052,339t 
Maintenance Points: 28308
Passengers High/Med: 0/0 
Crew: 1251/1551 
Frozen Watch: 199
Cost: 90,866.758 MCr 
Tech Level: 15
Size: 10 


Electronics (Ar: 10 [29])
Controls: Holographic, Standard automation. 5xFibComp (CM:0.2 CP:5.0).
Terrain following sensors (TF:570, NOE:190). Bridge.
Communications: 4xRadio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 8xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).
Sensors: 1xPEMS (14.5 [160mkm], 0.5MW). 1xAEMS (12.5 [5mkm] LP, 50MW).
4xLIDAR (15 [2mkm], 2.5MW).
Survey/Science: 1xDensitometer (9 [500km]). 1xNeutrino (8.5 [160km],
2MW).
ECM: 1xRadio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4MW). 1xArea. Jammer (12, 625MW).
1xDecp. Jammer (13, 12.5MW).
  1xPas. Jammer (16, 6.25MW).
Signatures: Vis:-1, IR:0.5 (0.5 at 187732MW, 0 at 22100MW), Act:0,
Neu:1, Grav:2



Performance 
4 Jump (7000std/pc fuel/Ar: 20 [60]) 
6/6.2 Maneuver (Thruster:162,607MW/Ar: 20 [60])
1/1 Contra-grav (17693MW/Ar: 20 [60]) 
5000kph/5000kph Atmosphere Maximum 
3750kph/3750kph Atmosphere Cruise 
6 Power (Fusion:2221000MW,1yr) 
0 Battery 
29621.4 Fuel (Scoop:5 /Purif:24hrs /Ar: 10 [29]) 
1580/20/207/400 Accomodations (SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy Low
Berth) 
41600 Life Sup. (Type:Extended,Good Food/Storage) 
6 G-Comp 
16 Damper Turrets (3MW /Rng:30000km /Ar: 10 [29]) 
300 Damper Screen (30MW /Ar: 10 [29]) 
664 Meson Screen (275.56MW /Ar: 10 [29]) 
120 [1430] Armor, 59 Structure 



Weapons (300,000km range bands) 
1x 22.5k-Mj Spinal PA (+6) 2/15-15-15-15 [2,200/1065-1065-1065-1065]
400rof Ar: 30 [115]
8x 568-Mj Laser Bay (+6) 1/6-6-6-6 [2,200/60-60-60-60] 200rof 
32x 250-Mj Laser Turret (+6) 1/4-4-4-4 [2,100/40-40-40-40] 100rof 
24x Missile Bay Auto 4/4 (Mag:76 /MFD:500,000km) 
     w/80 Command DetLaser1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU 



Features (all Ar: 10 [29])
700x Airlock 
0x Decontamination Airlock 
1x Docking Umbilical 
2x Electronic Shop (6std ea.) 
25x Machine Shop (10std ea.) 
12x Sickbay (8std ea.) 
1x Ship's locker (35std ea.) 
4x Prisoner Capacity (2 Medium, 2 High Security) 
80x Armory (.71std ea.) 
16x Gym (2.5std ea.)
5x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 60 each) 
10x Full Galley (Cap:160 each) 
4x Crew Lounge (105std ea.)
1x Combat Information Center (120std ea.) 



Small Craft (all facilities Ar: 10 [29])
16xMinHgr (10std, 2 hatches) 
     Light fighters 
6xMinHgr (50std, 6 hatches) 
     Modular cutters 
1x Launch Tube (10std)



Backups 
Drives: None 
Screens: 1xMeson Screen (PV:160). 1xDamper Screen (PV:160). 
Communications: None 
Sensors: 2xPEMS (14 [50mkm]). 2xAEMS (12.5 [5mkm]).  
ECM: None 
Power & Fuel: None 


Crew Details 9x Maneuver. 1x Electronic. 961x Engineering. 69x
Maintenance. 95x Gunnery. 20x Screen. 52x Flight. 60x Troops.
211xCommand. 51x Stewards. 22xMedical.


- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 19:41:57 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Two monitors on Win95

On Sat, 2 Jan 1999 03:40:11 -0500, Evyn MacDude
<wmacdude@concentric.net> wrote:

>BTW and this is way off topic, any one know how to rig two
>moniters on a Win95 box? NT handles it ok so far.

I think the only way to do this on Win95 is to install Win98.
Sorry.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 14:31:32 EST
From: SignalGK@aol.com
Subject: Re: Vilani Provincial Governor

In a message dated 11/12/98 03:43:34 GMT, you write:

<< 
 I have found reference to a Diikagkarunii (provincial governor) 
 during my First Contact research, but do not know how large an area a
 province is regarded by the Vilani.
  >>

It was always my belief that a province was an area about the size of a Sector
and that the Rule of Man and Third Imperium merely adopted the method for
their Sectors.. For the record, the Sector 'DAGUDASHAAG (dah-guh-dah-SHARG),
is a corruption and contraction of the Old High Vilani - Dakhukuga Gulike
Dushaage, which means  'Rimward Galactic Province'. This term refers to the
sector's astrographical position, relative to Vland.

Cheers,

Jae

Signal-GK: A Distress Signal, A Cry for Help, A CALL TO ADVENTURE!!!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 14:24:23 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues)

>So the possiblity of a modern War of Succession is a possiblity, as ugly as
it
>is, we must recognise and admit is possible.
>
>richard (who is waiting for the flames to come as some find these simple
words
>offensive)

No flames Rich, I know you too well.
BUT, the truth is, a modern war of Succession is pretty far fetched.  I am
familiar with several movements of that nature here in Texas and despite
being scary, they ARE STUPID.
Take the Ok. City bombing.  Just the way for successionist to make a
statement, only probablem is, I doubt anyone would support them after such
an attack.

The average person is not going to revolt due to losing his right to own a
gun. I know, I own guns, don't want to give them up, but if a law should get
passed you deal with it.

But that is enough.
Back to traveller business

TV

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 20:22:00 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: HIWG Traveller Writers' Guild Digest V1 #317

Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com> wrote:

>HIWG does still exist, but it appears to be a former shadow of itself, and
>BITS is too "stuck in M0" mode.  Personally, given what I've seen of T5,
>other than Pocket Empires and some of Imperial Squadrons, let them keep it.
>I'm a CT person, and my own take on M:0 was, in the words of a BITS author
>I won't name "too stuck in the Classic rut to be of interest".

It'd be interesting to know who ;-) I don't remember it being me...

I would disagree with the _stuck in M0_ mode - personally my love is the
M:1100 stuff; however CORE (ie the product development group) was focused
on supporting T4/T4.1 This all went apart at the beginning of 98 when IG
(spit) went under. We had a lot of work go down the tubes. I like M0 but
until IG went under the work for Traveller was focused on T4/T4.1.

If you look at BITS products (not the CORE stuff for IG) you may notice
that there are 7 101 books (Lifeforms, Cargos, Plots, Travellers,
Governments, Religions, Rendezvous) which are all generic all mileux
supplements albeit built around the T4 ruleset. But this makes them easily
accessable to CT/MT and to a lesser extent TNE/GT. Aside from that we have
Rob Prior's software (IGS2 all Milieux, QSDS/Infini-V are T4, GT Shipyard
is GURPS Trav), Tim Collinson's Traveller Bibliography (generic) and The
Long Way Home (M0 because it was written to support the launch of T4 in the
UK).

Of the other products - The Dag book is SGK re-worked and may end up as an
M0 sector book and a M1100 Encyclopedia (not sure exactly how this goes),
most of the scenarios are not M0 linked (only Valentine's Rose, Web of
Deceit and Space Dogs are). ACQ is CT/MT/T4 useable, and 101st Spaceborne
is usable for a variety of TL 9/10, 12 and 14 so is equally applicable to
CT era as M0.

That is the reason I disagree with being stuck in an _M0 rut_ ; if my posts
have given the impression that we dislike M1100 that isn't the aim. We have
to support the current edition of Traveller and in this case the companies
and personnel involved were aiming at M0. Now I know some people dislike
the focus of M0 but the scenarios/material we were working on (the
expansion into Dag etc) would have given a better flavour went when IG
failed. Unfortunately, M0 will always be stained by IG.

>Well, it's my rut, and I'll game if I want to...

That's fine - my favourite Traveller setting is _Hard Times_, then the
early Rebellion.

>>I think late 99 is too late.
>I agree; but then, my posting on a "Starter T5" set for demos and cons
>went unnoticed by this list, apparently.

Nope. I noticed it - the question is whether Marc noticed it. He is the one
looking for a publisher, and owner of the rights. As I mentioned in an
earlier post I agree with your idea. I'd be interested in Marc's feedback
on these thoughts but I suspect that it could be awkward for him being
drawn into this thread. Bear in mind that I run T4.1/T5 demos for BITS at
cons on a semi -regular basis...

> don't know.  I still think that MT to a limited extent, and FFS to a
>great deal, hurt Traveller because while appealing to the collectors who
>think building starships is the same as gaming, prevent actual players from
>easily building real starships.  I'd prefer to see High Guard redone, with
>borrowings to make it work up to TL 25, and then redo an FFS later to be
>"fully" compatible with that.  Hmm.. that's still not right.  Actually, I
>want a new FFS to add lots of extra detail, while producing EXACTLY the same
>end result as the HG product.

I want a simplified (HG level) design system (ie more simple than QSDS) as
the basis for T5. I would like it to have more flexibilty in the sense that
HePLAR/other drives are included and G rating limits are dropped, and the
no of hard points limit becomes a number of surface area points total. I
use HG still with the T5 draft rules, and I use Rob Prior's QSDS software
to design ships for T4 scenarios.

>Has it actually been proven that legacy sales will not maintain the game?
>I would disagree totally that T4 pitched at legacy sales - sure, everyone
>said it felt like CT - until you played it, or built characters with it,
>or tried to design a starship, or bought a second IG product, or even
>looked at the Core subsector printed in the rulebook.

It felt like an evolution of CT to me, but not CT. And I'd love to see the
old adventures updated and re-issued as a starter. For a start GDW's late
70's early 80's standards of layout beat IG big time.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 15:48:54 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues)

In a message dated 99-01-02 15:27:03 EST, you write:

<< No flames Rich, I know you too well.
 BUT, the truth is, a modern war of Succession is pretty far fetched.  I am
 familiar with several movements of that nature here in Texas and despite
 being scary, they ARE STUPID.
 Take the Ok. City bombing.  Just the way for successionist to make a
 statement, only probablem is, I doubt anyone would support them after such
 an attack.
 
 The average person is not going to revolt due to losing his right to own a
 gun. I know, I own guns, don't want to give them up, but if a law should get
 passed you deal with it. >>

thats just it...  us military types sworn to defend the consitution will have
to act against those who pass UNCONSITUTIONAL laws such as taht. and it would
be every americans duty to stand up and fight.  once one right is destroyed,
all others will follow.  THe Framers of our Consitution set up the Second
Admendment to protect us form an overbearing government.  

AS FOR Ok City bombing. too much evidence is coming up about that to make that
agaisnt the Milita and States Rights movement.  The OK State Attorney's
General has reopened the case and is trying to figure out why there are way to
may discrepancies with the evidence.

But i too know of groups of Men and Women who are part of the milita movement,
they are high educated, and motivated people (of all colours, backgrounds, and
beleifs) that have seen the BOGUS crap going on.

Further more, I DO NOT KNOW OF ANY AMERICAN SOLDIERS who would follow the
orders to FIRE ON THEIR FELLOW AMERICAN CITIZENS...  They would desert before
they took up arms agasint fellow american defending their consitutional
rights...  and this was my point about a SUCCESSION that would lead to a
possible Grand Republic of Texas.

do not be blind to the Varibles are out there.   TO many americans are sheep
today, but those sheep can become lions over night.  Look at the outrage over
WACO.  How well do you think UNCONSITUTIONAL laws (that the police personal i
have discussed this with would refuse to enforce) that will lead to the
REMOVAL of ALL of the other RIGHTS garanteed by the Consitution?  too many
rural communities are getting the short end of the stick today.  but we really
need to learn to wake up and get the Career politicians out of Washington and
replace them with someone willing to make the Tough choices (such as getting
the budgets balanced, cutbacks on the social spending, getting the governmetns
out of our private lives)...  

Until then its not a pretty picture.  

richard

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 16:24:45 EST
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pluto's secret

In a message dated 1/2/99 6:34:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, ianw@orac.net.au
writes:

<< 
 They found out is was possible and got some very good hints, but without
 hard work, some brilliance and some very good engineering, then they
 wouldnt have got it to work as well as they did.
  >>
don't forget technical information from American traitors

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 16:46:01 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

Rob Prior wrote:

>If you can manage it, I'd like to see a system that generates a
>biome, starting from the climate and working through producers
>to primary and secondary consumers.

>Then once that is done, I'd like it to describe the biochemistry
>and physical appearance of the lifeform

>(OK, I know that the second part is a really tall order.)

The biochemistry is too tall an order for me. Way back when
Starships was being (deservedly) roasted, someone borrowed a
table for alien life forms from somewhere and posted it on the
list. 

>If you can manage it, I'd like to see a system that generates a
>biome, starting from the climate and working through producers
>to primary and secondary consumers.

I'm working on the climate part of it. I'll do what I can on
producers. The primary and secondary consumers have already been
done. Also, I'll put in a few suggestions about tying them into a
community.
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 16:46:05 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Holy Days

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>> For that matter, most of the mainstream religions have holy
>> days tied to the lunar and solar cycles of earth.  How would
>> someone on a moonless world with a different year and length
>> of day calculate the date of the Jewish passover or Christian
>> Easter? 

>The Jewish calendar *isn't* tied to the lunar/solar cycles. It
>was *based* on them, but for centuries it's been based on a
>series of rules that have nothing to do with astronomy. 

>And the various christian churches use a method to calculate the
>date of Easter that is also divorced from the actual
>astronomical events. The Orthodox Churches use a slightly
>different calculation, but *neither* is synched correctly with
>the moon.

>Well, as noted above, Judaism and Christianity are *already*
>divorced from the cycles of earth except for the day/night
>cycle. Islam is so tied to them that they are going to have to
>make some major adjustments when they move off planet.

<snippage>

>I have no idea about Hindu or Buddhist issues, nor those of any
>other religions. 

  Chinese and Korean, Buddhist and Hindu holy days are based on a
lunar calendar like Easter and the Jewish holy days. As you
observe, the particular lunar calendar in use may have become
divorced from the actual movements of the moon, but whatever
rules are used assure that the event occurs once per year in the
appropriate season of earth's northern hemisphere.
   On planets with different cycles, this seasonal connection
will disappear, and the rules for determining the dates of such
holy days will seem _completely_ arbitrary.

  

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1351
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 2 1999     Volume 1998 : Number 1352



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Chron-ology (was Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra
Re: Traveller World Building
Re: Traveller World Building-Biomes
Re: Ravioli Gun
re: Emperor's Vehicles
Space:1999 Eagle Poster
Eagle Stats?
Re: Nobility
Re: Ravioli Railgun
Re: Noblity
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues)
Re: Pluto's Secret
US Constitutional Issues (Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues))
Re: Eagle Stats?
Empress Wave (ws Re: Pluto's Secret)
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues)
Re: G:T merchant

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 16:46:09 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Chron-ology (was Alternative Religions: Beyond Terra

Leonard Erickson wrote:

[Most of excellent post on chron-ology snipped]

>Likewise hour will mean the standard 3600 second period, while
>some other term will be used for the subdivisions of the sol.
>I'm leaning towards "chron" as the term. For convenience, a sol
>will always be divided evenly into chrons. How many will depend
>on the actual length of the sol, as well as on how conveniently
>the sol can be divided into work shifts and the like. Ten is a
>bad number in most cases because only 2 and 5 go into it evenly,
>and 2 shifts or 5 shifts per sol seem unlikely. 12 and 24 are
>good because they divide by 3, 4, 6, etc.

   TNE suggests a standard period of 4 hours for work, travel, or
sleep. (8 hour night's sleep, 8 hour work day, for instance, are
multiples). In ancient times, the day and night were each divided
into three watches. The Romans divided each watch into fourths of
one hour each. 
   Why not have the scout services, when they measure the sol of
a world in standard hours, round to the nearest integer divisible
by four, and divide the sol into that many chrons. This would
make a chron approximately one standard hour in length, but
variable depending on the world.
   Humans are adapted to a 24 chron world: Worlds with 20 chron
sols would seem awkwardly short, and worlds with 28 chron solds
would seem awkwardly long. Worlds with more or fewer chrons per
sol might have day/night cycles out of phase with human
sleep/rest cycles.

>Going in the other direction, given the nature of the Imperial
>calendar, I suspect that month will be relegated to a strictly
>local reckoning of sols.

Or use a convention, something like a "month" is 30 days. A
common unit in financial reporting might be a quarter of 91 days
(or 92 days, if the fourth quarter).

>Anno will be the local year (plural is annum).

>I'm willing to bet that most local festivals will be figured
>according to the local calendar, whereas Imperial festivals will
>be on whatever sol starts closest to the start of the Imperial
>date. Which means that an Imperial (or other off planet) holiday
>could happen several times an anno or only once every few
>annums. It all depends on how long the anno is.

I like it.
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 16:46:22 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building

>>>The problem with this is that it means that vegetation depends
>>>on *weather*, while weather depends to some extent on
>>>vegetation! Remember, the Sahara *was* forest and grasslands.
>>> Overgrazing killed the vegetation (and still is!) resulting in
>>>the spread of desert. 
>
>> How certain is it that it was overgrazing and not a change in
>> climate associated with the end of the last ice age?

>Well, clear back in the 60s they had satellite observations
>showing the steady advance of the Sahara. And they spotted some >anomalies
(green spots surrounded by new desert). Investigation on the
>ground showed *two* things. First, an irrigation system based on well
>pumped water (present in lots of other places). Second, *fences*, to
>control grazing. 

IIRC, Domestication of sheep and goats occurred in the fringes of
Mesopotamia around 10,000 BC, give or take a couple of thousand years, and
human with domesticated cattle populations took a while to build.
I'm not convinced that overgrazing works as the primary desertifier of the
Sahara. I'm not up on the lastest research, but I seem to recall reading
that the period of satellite observation coincided with an extended
drought. Drought plus overgrazing could easily plunge an already marginal
area into full desert. If you brink back the rain and stop overgrazing, the
area might well start to recover. 

>> For world-building purposes, I'd call temperature and humidity
>> the primary determiners of vegetation type. Dependence of
>> weather on vegetation would be a second order effect.

>It could probably be handled by a precipitation modifier for
>vegetation. And a suggestion that in some cases it might be a
>good idea to check the vegetation against the adjusted precip.

Global weather patterns and thus precipitation would be determined
primarily by radiation received, location of major bodies of water, and
location and altitude of land. I don't think plants normally transpire more
water than they recieve in precipitation. Soil type has the same kind of
mutual interdependence on plant life that transpiration does. Since there
are often three or four biomes that can fit in a climate zone (Designer's
choice) and much overlap of biomes between neigboring climate zones, trying
to detail transpiration and soil effects at this scale goes into the
category of more complication without much more realism.
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 16:46:15 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller World Building-Biomes

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>

>If you've got the references handy, it'd be nice to have a list
>of known biomes (with a rough description of the limiting conditions
>for them). Then the rest of us can try to come up with possibilities
>for the less terrestrial planets/environments.

Let me do it the other way around: Climate zones, with the biomes that are
usually found in them.

Mean annual Temperature (degrees C)
 Below -15 Polar
- -15 to -5  Arctic-Alpine
- -5 to   5  Cold Temperate
 5 to  15  Warm Temperate
 15 to 25  Subtropical
 Above 25  Tropical

Mean annual Precipitation (cm)
  50 or below  Arid
  50 to 100     Dry
  100 to 200    Moderate
  200 to 300    Humid
  300 to 400    Wet
  400 or above  Very wet
  Any           Wet Soil (Discontinuous or seasonal areas of 
                shallow water)

Temperature/ Rainfall combinations not listed do not exist, since the
maximum humidity of the air drops rapidly with temperature.

Climate Zone:                   Biomes
Polar/ Arid                     Barrens
Arctic-Alpine/ Arid             Barrens, Arctic-alpine desert, Tundra
Arctic-alpine/ Dry              Tundra, Arctic-alpine desert
Arctic-alpine/ wetsoil          Tundra, Bog
Cold Temperate/ Arid            Barrens, Semidesert scrub, 
                                Temperate shrub, Taiga
Cold Temperate/ Dry             Taiga
Cold Temperate/moderate         Taiga, Elfin woodland
Cold Temperate/Wet Soil         Bog.
Warm Temperate/Arid             Barrens, WarmTemperate desert, semidesert  
                        scrub, Temperate Shrub
Warm Temperate/dry              Temperate shrub, temperate grass,          
                        Temperate woodland
Warm Temperate/Moderate         Temperate Forest (Deciduous or evergreen)
Warm Temperate/Humid            Temperate Rain forest
Warm Temperate/Wet soil         Marsh,  Temperate Swamp forest
SubTropical/ Arid               Barrens, Warm temperate desert,tropical    
                        desert
                                Temperate shrub, Thorn scrub
SubTropical/ Dry                Temperate grassland, Thorn scrub
                                Temperate woodland, Savanna, Thorn forest
SubTropical/ Moderate           Temperate Grassland, Woodland, Forest 
                                Thorn forest, Tropical seasonal forest
SubTropical/ humid              Temperate forest, temperate rain forest
                                Tropical seasonal or rain forest
SubTropical/ Wet                Tropical rain forest
SubTropical/ Wet Soil           Temperate Swamp forest, 
                                Tropical swamp forest, Mangrove swamp
Tropical/ Arid                  Barrens, Tropical desert
Tropical/ dry                   Thorn scrub, Savanna
Tropical/ Moderate              Savannah, thorn forest, tropical seasonal
Tropical/ humid                 Tropical seasonal or rain forest
Tropical/ wet                   Tropical rain forest
Tropical/ very wet              Tropical Rain forest
Tropical/ wetsoil               Tropical swamp forest, mangrove swamp

0. Barrens              Bare rock or sand (Ice, in cold areas). 
                        No visible life.
1. Arctic-Alpine desert:        Scattered lichens on rock or ice
2. Tundra:              Lichens, mosses, grasses, some shrubs
3. Semidesert scrub:    Small shrubs and grasses (widely scattered in 
                        more arid regions)
4. Temperate shrub:     Diverse shrub community; like stunted forest
5. Taiga                Evergreen needle-leafed forest.
6. Bog:                 Cold, wet-soil community.
7. Elfin woodland:      Dense evergreen thickets, heavy lichen and moss    
                growth
8. Warm Temperate Desert Small leaved or Spiny shrubs (e.g Cactus)
9. Temperate Grassland  Plains, prairies, Pampas
10.Temperate woodland   Small trees in open spacing, much undergrowth
11.Temperate Forest     Evergreen or deciduous
12.Temperate rain forest Giant trees or smaller evergreens in wet          
                temperate climates
13. Tropical desert     Sparse grasses.
14. Thorn scrub         Dense communities of spiny shubs and small trees
15. Savanna             Tropical grassland, scattered trees
16. Thorn forest        Larger spiny trees
17. Tropical seasonal forest 
                        Monsoon forest, with wet/dry rather than 
                        warm/cold cycles
18. Tropical rain forest
                        Large forests, many species, unrooted plants       
                        supported on trees, vines

Wet-soil communities
19. Bog                 : Cold climates. peat. Frozen much of the year.
20. Marsh               : Principally grasses and shrubs, few trees.
21. Temperate swamp forest  : Freshwater (e.g. Everglades) 
22. Tropical swamp forest   : Freshwater
23. Mangrove swamps     : Salt tolerant swamp forest 

Aquatic communities
        River           
        Lake
        Estuarine & marine mudflat: Coastal shallows
        Sandy Littoral          Ocean Beaches
        Rocky Littoral          Marine cliffsides
        Marine coastal          Ocean floor, lighted. Kelp beds and coral  
                                reefs
        Marine Benthic          Ocean floor, dark zone
        Marine Pelagic          Open sea. 
                                (further divided into lighted zone, dark   
                        zone, and near-bottom. 


 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:26:12 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Gun

>>Of course, but then if you are using chemical drive, then you would
>>be going reeeeeaaaaaaaly slow...  Would you not?  And then a
rail-gun
>>would be a viable weapon on which to twack your enemy...  Would it
>>not?
>
>Ok, ok!  ;-> But, if you have a rail gun with enough oomph to be a
>viable space weapon what are you doing with chemical drive ships?

This is what we basically have _now_.
OK, we've also got Deep Space 1's ion drive.but that don't make a hell
of a lot of difference.

The rail guns we have could easily make a mess of the USS Iowa , let
alone the weak little spaceships we're running around in.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:43:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "T. Kurt Bond" <tkb@access.mountain.net>
Subject: re: Emperor's Vehicles

Dom Mooney writes
> if you want I'm sure we can give you a lowdown on the T4
> material worth getting...
> 
> Dom

Is there a collection of reviews of T4 stuff?  
- -- 
T. Kurt Bond, tkb@access.mountain.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:55:30 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Space:1999 Eagle Poster

Traveller fans who dig low-tech(?) space vehicles might want to check out
the new poster that Baldasari is working on at

http://space.tin.it/fantascienza/rbaldas/eagle.html

It looks pretty hot!

Some of his older drawings of the Eagle at various angles are available for
a look-see at

http://www.cybrary1999.com/   under "collectibles".

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 19:03:44 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Eagle Stats?

Does anyone have Traveller stats for the Space:1999 Eagle, including TL's?

- --Clif

Or could someone make them up based on the description at:

http://space.tin.it/fantascienza/rbaldas/eagle.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:16:21 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Nobility

>The other question is what does 'responsible' mean ... imagine a situation
>where a noble is responsible for a world, but the world is not an Imperial
>dependancy, and the noble has negligible ownership of assets on the planet,
>no role in government and no tax rights. She is Duke of Whatsit, and that
>and 2 credits gets her a beer anywhere on the planet.

Well, a noble is the Imperial representative to a world.  For an
adventurer, it raises the question about whether they can be traipsing
around the galaxy rather than staying at the world they are supposedly
responsbile for.  For this character, the main question is whether
you can inheret the title of Baron without having to have such
responsibilities.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 20:21:39 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Ravioli Railgun

At 12:51 PM 02/01/99 EST, you wrote:
>M.Vaillaincourt wrote:
><        Hi, Merrick....
><        Or have the missile capable of jamming the crap out of the CIWS
><fire-control systems with active jamming and decoys...  I am reading over
><the Definitive Sensor Rules these days, and I am going to write up a
><"jamming" set of optional/advanced rules for them...  If you can't see it
><you can't shoot it...
>Nice idea, but based on wrong assumption: Jamming means flooding the area
>with white noise. You do this to evade/prevent identification but not
>detection.
>In fact jamming does give away your position. You are talking about CLOAKING
>not jamming...but methinks cloaking is definitely non-canon...
>Andreas Reimer

        Hi, Andreas!
        Umm, not sure what your quals are, so I might be argueing with
someone who knows better.  However, I'm a Combat Information Operator in the
Canadian Naval Reserve, and have been jammed quite sucessfully on several
occasions by American Intruder-E's.  We saw 'em coming, right up to the
point they turned on the music.

        There are several different kinds of RADAR jamming.  These are:
        Deception Jamming....  "I am here, here, here, here, here, here and
here too.  Guess which one is me."
        Racket Jamming.......  "Why is that 10-degree-wide bearing on my
scope suddenly full of sea clutter?"
        Lobe Jamming (Racket variant) .... "Why are those 3 10-degree-wide
bearings on cope suddenly full of sea clutter?"
        White Jamming ....  "Why did that entire 30-degree arc of my scope
go soild green?"
        Black Jamming ....  "Where did *everything* on the screen go?  All
my contacts just went away!"

        Since I am not sure how classified the different techniques are,
that's about as detailed as I am gonna go.  Suffice to say that 6
Intruder-E's white jammed us to the point the .50 cal crews got to have a go
at them as they "for excercise" rained 500-lb iron bombs on us...  Cocky
buggers didn't even bother with stand-offs, they *knew* we couldn't get a
fire control lock onto them.
        
        Now, the EW boys were 8freaking* the entire time, any they could
tells us what bearing the jammers were *on*, so the GDO-Visual was able to
have all the eye-targeted systems pointing the right way, but we could not
direct Sea Sparrow or 3"50 gun fire at them.  30mm Bofors (eye-targeted) and
.50 cal was all we had.  Talk about "Point Defense".

        So, in our Traveller KK missile attack, the launch ship fires a
salvo of 100-g missiles at the target and then snaps on the jammer and
"whites out" the bearing the missiles are screaming down.  It only has to
last a few minutes.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:33:40 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Noblity

Sat, 2 Jan 1999 07:46:38 -0700, "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
>OK, a Marquis (I like like the title of Marquis better than Count) is
>responsible for one "large & important world" correct...  IMTU, that is the
>main world in any system...  So Regina in the Spinward Marches would have a
>Marquis in charge of it...

>Now Barons on the other hand may or may not have a fief....  If a Baron is
>an "Honorary" Baron meaning he or she might have gotten this noble rank say
>because of military, scout or merchant services...  Also the rank of Baron
>may be given to Merc Commanders, where the Merc Unit is the fief...  As for
>other forms of fiefs, I would have to say that a Baron on a main world my
>be in charge of a large area such as a continent(sp) or the world's moon or
>a minor planet in a system.  For example IMTU, Terra is ruled by a Marquis,
>but Mars is ruled by a Baron who is under the count & on Terra, North
>America, South America, Europe, Nothern Africa, Southern Africa, Russia,
>China, SE Asia, India, & Austraila are all ruled by Barons who are under
>the Marquis...  As for Barons without fiefs, well those people do have the
>title of Baron & the rank of Baron, but are not part of the Imperial Moot,
>but also are in line for a fief...  If one opens up where for some reason
>there are no heirs...

>Think about it, you have a PC who is a Baron without a fief...  A fief
>opens up for rule & his or her name is at the top of the list...  But, the
>fief is in the Solomani Rim & he or she is in the Spinward Marches...  So
>it can be a race to get him or her there in time...  A great way to play a
>champaign...

All the cases where you don't have a fief were ones where the
person was awarded the title.  I take it you think that if you
inherit the title it would have to have a fief?

A few comments.  The Imperial Encylopedia from MT says that
a Marquis is in charge of a "large in important world" with
a "good starport".  This says to me that the are only in
charge of the more important main worlds.  This raises the
question of who gets assigned to backwater worlds?  Barons?
Nobody?

Also, it says that all Barons are member of the moot.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 10:44:26 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues)

From: RSpake2064@aol.com
>  I DO NOT want to see the USA fall apart, and as a former member of the
US
> Navy, i swore an oath to defend the US Consititution form its enemies
both
> foreign and DOMESTIC just like every other US Miltiary Man and Woman.  
> 
> And the dissolution of the US would be a major assault on the
Consititution,
> but i DO NOT see the US Military getting invoulved in a Civil War this
time.
> There are way to many varibles invouled (no uneducated immergrants to
fill the
> swelling ranks of the US Army this time), but i do see the US Government
> maybee calling on the UN to send in peacekeeprs to stop the successionist
form
> succeeding in their Bid for Independance. 

The draft timeline had some skirmishes occurring - I have no problem with
that.  What I see as happening is that political pressure "from below"
prevented them from escalating.

UN peacekeepers?  Mmm, no, I don't think that they would be sent in "to
stop the [secessionists from] succeeding in their Bid for Independance". 
That's not what "peacekeepers" do, theoretically.  I also can't see a US
government that's concerned about a loss of sovereign territory bringing in
outsiders to resolve an internal dispute.  Maybe after a settlement has
been reached, though.

Damn.  Why am I getting involved in this?  I'm not even American, and I can
live with "what happens" in my part of the world.  That's it - this is my
last post on the topic.  All you guys can work out/blow up your own country
in peace.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:01:15 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Pluto's Secret

> From: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com>
> > From: Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
>>>From Dom

> > > Well it could be that all races in the Traveller universe are minor,
as
> > > the Droyne may have developed Time Travel first and stole the Jump
> Drive
> > > off the Solomani.  Then they went back in time and gave it to
> themselves
> > > before anyone else realised, and fabricated the story surrounding the
> > Coyns.
> >  
> > > Dom
> > 
> > Now stop that, Dom, it's naughty!
> 
> But, funny...

True.

Since we're talking about time travel:

How do you create a pocket universe?  Are you "removing" it from space,
time or space-time?  Probably it's the latter.  Is Yaskoydray's pocket
universe something like the TARDIS from Doctor Who - a time machine that's
bigger on the inside than the outside.

How were Yaskoydray's children interfering with his projects?  Was THEIR
time travel turning reality into mush?  Did he have to destroy them to
preserve the time line?

Were they actually his children or where they created by his time
manipulations?

Did  the Empress Wave phenomenon "create" the GT alternate universe, in
place of the MT/TNE universe?

Was it a time-travelling Avery who tipped off Strephon about Dulinor's
plot?

See, I said it was naughty.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
 
 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 21:13:08 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: US Constitutional Issues (Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues))

At 03:48 PM 02/01/99 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 99-01-02 15:27:03 EST, you write:
>
>>
>thats just it...  us military types sworn to defend the consitution will have
>to act against those who pass UNCONSITUTIONAL laws such as taht. and it would
>be every americans duty to stand up and fight.  once one right is destroyed,
>all others will follow.  THe Framers of our Consitution set up the Second
>Admendment to protect us form an overbearing government.  
>
        {Bunch of stuff deleted]


replace them with someone willing to make the Tough choices (such as getting
>the budgets balanced, cutbacks on the social spending, getting the governmetns
>out of our private lives)...  
>
>Until then its not a pretty picture.  
>
>richard

        Hi, Richard!
        What does this have to do with Traveller?
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 21:21:35 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Eagle Stats?

At 07:03 PM 02/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anyone have Traveller stats for the Space:1999 Eagle, including TL's?
>
>--Clif
>
>Or could someone make them up based on the description at:
>
>http://space.tin.it/fantascienza/rbaldas/eagle.html
>

        If no one else has it done already, I'll do 'em up for ya...  If
only so I can mis-apprpriate the design for my TNEC game =)
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 21:21:35 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Empress Wave (ws Re: Pluto's Secret)

At 11:01 AM 03/01/99 +1000, you wrote:
>Did  the Empress Wave phenomenon "create" the GT alternate universe, in
>place of the MT/TNE universe?
>
        Hi, Alan!
        What is the "Empress Wave"...  something TNE, or what?  I'm a CT
junkie, so was curious what this is.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 14:10:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues)

In mail you write:

> actually....
>
> If Texas would succeed form the Union i could see several other states
> following them...  
>
> Such as:  California, New Mexico, Arizonia, and possbility Nevada and Utah.
> This is since the South-West has become the location of the modern
> successionist sentiment of today. 

Try Oregon, Washington, Idaho.... possibly with British Columbia and
part of northern California....

ps. We'd love to leave the US with Hanford, but it isn't practical...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 12:22:29
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: G:T merchant

>From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
>Subject: Re: G:T Merchant
>
>Aah, but there's the rub! Where are his skill points in:
>Acting (AKA Lying), Anthropology ('Know your customers', he's been at it for
>20 years, remember?), Armoury (Just an example that assumes he's a gun
>trader. Substitute/add another half-dozen knowledge skills to reflect the
>fact that he should really know something about the stuff he's selling...),
>Area Knowledge (sector, subsector, several worlds, maybe even some really
>interesting regions (where he's had adventures)), Bard (AKA Being
>Entertaining), Carousing (A merchant that can't *party*? Get real.), Detect
>Lies (Kind of obvious, innit?), Economics (*Master* merchant, remember?),
>Fast-Talk(the very essence of Power Salesmanship), Intelligence Analysis
>(Actually, I'd prefer the one from GT: Far Trader, economic analysis(?), but
>that's not out yet), Language (depends on region, but I'd expect at least
>two or three), Law (Ok, his lawyer might handle this for him, but that would
>just make him a fool. Trust me, I've been there. :-(, Leadership (He *does*
>have underlings, doesn't he?), Research (or does he have a market department
>that does it all for him?), Scrounging (At least if he used to be a free
>trader before he struck it rich), Sports (Or any other hobby skills. Did he
>*ever* have a life?), Streetwise (If he's ever done any, ahem, 'less than
>legal' deals, this is a neccessity.), Writing (Ever written a prospectus to
>attract investors?)

Wait a second. He has Economics at something gross (it defaults on Merchant).

We have 20 points of 'free' disad space, and 5 points of unassigned
background skills (a doubled point of Sports Law (Polo), a doubled point in
AK (Polo, Spinward Marches), two points in Vacc Suit and a doubled point in
Literature). Now, for PCs, a full 40 points of disads is de rigeur.

Diplomacy is used rather than Fast Talk, and I'm not sure of the difference
between Economics and Economic Analysis/Intelligence Analysis.

OK. Half a dozen one point AKs (all at 11), couple of points in Research
(12), couple of points in Writing (12). Four points in Streetwise (13) and
one point in Leadership (11) is 15 extra points, so we buy another 15
points of Disads (say, a 5 point Enemy, a 5 point Addiction and, I dunno, 5
point worth of Curious)

>
>>>Obvious munchkin material like this one should also
>>Hey, I think this is a well-designed interesting character, albeit brutally
>optimised.
>
>Yeah, that's what I said. ;-)
>

Seriously, it's not munchkinised. Munchinised would involve dropping ST and
HT down to nines, and jacking INT up to 14, with a commensurate +2 on all
INT based skills (drop the AKs down to half a point 12s and add 2 points
into Computer Ops and one point of Sex Appeal <we have to, we're a munchkin>).

>Oh, he's not an outright munchkin. He just displays severe munchkinoid
>tendencies. I'm certain that with the right player he could be an
>interesting addition to the party, given his monomaniacal tendencies. ;-)
>

Monomaniacal ? I resent that. Do you call characters with 50 points in
combat skills 'monomaniacal' ?

>>Oooooh, cool stuff *thinks if you can build Lazlo <Hunter S Thompson's
>>Samoan Attorney> on 75 points*. There was me thinking a pet Attorney was
>>merely an expensive habit ... (*blam* *blam* *blam* Trader :<fumbling with
>>pistol> 'They're shooting at us ... is returning fire illegal in this
>>juristdiction ?' <Minder draws and returns fire in a sustained and accurate
>>manner> Lawyer '<gets out stopwatch>Yes, and you are on paid time *now*')
>
>ROFLOL!
>
>HEY! No fair! You're starting to convince me that this *would* be a fun
>character! (If nothing else because it would be *so* enjoyable to hose him,
>every now and then. ;-)
>

Hmm, I wonder what a Life Assurance Policy costs ... (it's a special sort
of bearer bond ... in the case of your unlawful death, it puts a suitably
large bounty on your killer).

>>With $1.5 mill in cash and Merchant-21, your job *is* merchant venturing...
>
>True. But I (and most bosses, come to think of it ;-) tend to go by the
>guideline "If it's fun, it ain't work. Stop laughing and get to work!"
>Remember Catbert, the Evil HR Director? So, that should be 40 hours of
>mind-numbingly boring administration/management/beancounting on *top* of all
>the fun adventuring stuff that he really doesn't have time to do, for the
>tax papers have to be in by tomorrow morning at the latest, and he has a
>stack of TASJ Form 342345 *this* high to deal with before noon, and... Oh
>yeah, sleep would be nice too. And perhaps even some r&r? And, of course, if
>he gets behind on his accounting, well, that's an "Adventure Opportunity",
>innit? "The Taxman Cometh!", anyone? ;-)
>

Sounds fair to me ...

>>>Combat Paralysis? He he he. At least the munchkin leabves the gm a good
>way
>>of getting rid of it. ;-) Unlikely in a real munchkin, but still fun. ;-)
>

I am not a munchkin :) I just ruthlessly optimise :)

>>Note the highly-paid Minder ...
>
><Que massive amounts of full-auto fire from an assortment of thugs and
>ne'er-do-wells.>
>- -"Come *on* boss! We gotta skedaddle out of here! STAT!"
>- - <silence>
>- -"BOSS!!! NOW!!!"
>- - <silence>
>- -"Sigh." (Hoists boss up in a fireman's carry and runs off, dodging bullets
>to to the left and to the right.) "I'm too old for this..."
>
>I hope the Minder remembered to buy some extra Strength. Or at least some
>pain medication for that aching back. ;-)

Hey, why not both ? High ST and Addiction (Painkillers) ?

We *do* have to design the Bodyguard and the Lawyer, and do the trio as a
an Instant Adventure Pack ...

Hmmm. A Trader, a Minder and a Lawyer walked into a bar ... key Bureaucrat,
Stage Left.

'Hello Mr Seyeturia. You, the gorilla and the shyster are still hanging
around together ... well, you have a problem ...'

'I have a problem ? My good man, that tie you are wearing is three years
out of fashion ...' <*Add 5 point Fashion Sense and 5 Point Addiction (New
Clothes)*>

'Cut the crap, Seyaturia. And I *really* hope that goon of yours has given
up his habit of carrying a concealed 12 millimeter ...'

<*bodyguard snarls* hey ... Aslan lawyer ...>

'But because I'm your *friend*, I'm going to give you an opportunity to
solve your problem. Some of the boys in Section Four think the Ayobi
Princess is smuggling. I want you, the goon and your furry friend to
charter some space on her, and keep a very careful eye on her. Of course,
you *could* always stay here ... I hear that there's a new hotshot in
Biological Controls who wants a scalp or three *thin smile* ...'

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1352
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 2 1999     Volume 1998 : Number 1353



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: G:T merchant
NA National Borders (Was Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues))
Re: Magazine for T5?
Re: EW in Traveller
Empress Wave.
Re: Tuscaloosa class comments
Re: EW in Traveller
Re: Re; Imperial Grand Survey
Re: Re: HIWG Traveller Writers' Guild Digest V1 #317
Imperium Secesssionist Movements (Re: US Constitutional Issues)
Alternative BITS address - please don't book mark
Re: Imperium Secesssionist Movements 
Re: G:T merchant
Re: G:T merchant

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 12:22:29
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: G:T merchant

>From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
>Subject: Re: G:T Merchant
>
>Aah, but there's the rub! Where are his skill points in:
>Acting (AKA Lying), Anthropology ('Know your customers', he's been at it for
>20 years, remember?), Armoury (Just an example that assumes he's a gun
>trader. Substitute/add another half-dozen knowledge skills to reflect the
>fact that he should really know something about the stuff he's selling...),
>Area Knowledge (sector, subsector, several worlds, maybe even some really
>interesting regions (where he's had adventures)), Bard (AKA Being
>Entertaining), Carousing (A merchant that can't *party*? Get real.), Detect
>Lies (Kind of obvious, innit?), Economics (*Master* merchant, remember?),
>Fast-Talk(the very essence of Power Salesmanship), Intelligence Analysis
>(Actually, I'd prefer the one from GT: Far Trader, economic analysis(?), but
>that's not out yet), Language (depends on region, but I'd expect at least
>two or three), Law (Ok, his lawyer might handle this for him, but that would
>just make him a fool. Trust me, I've been there. :-(, Leadership (He *does*
>have underlings, doesn't he?), Research (or does he have a market department
>that does it all for him?), Scrounging (At least if he used to be a free
>trader before he struck it rich), Sports (Or any other hobby skills. Did he
>*ever* have a life?), Streetwise (If he's ever done any, ahem, 'less than
>legal' deals, this is a neccessity.), Writing (Ever written a prospectus to
>attract investors?)

Wait a second. He has Economics at something gross (it defaults on Merchant).

We have 20 points of 'free' disad space, and 5 points of unassigned
background skills (a doubled point of Sports Law (Polo), a doubled point in
AK (Polo, Spinward Marches), two points in Vacc Suit and a doubled point in
Literature). Now, for PCs, a full 40 points of disads is de rigeur.

Diplomacy is used rather than Fast Talk, and I'm not sure of the difference
between Economics and Economic Analysis/Intelligence Analysis.

OK. Half a dozen one point AKs (all at 11), couple of points in Research
(12), couple of points in Writing (12). Four points in Streetwise (13) and
one point in Leadership (11) is 15 extra points, so we buy another 15
points of Disads (say, a 5 point Enemy, a 5 point Addiction and, I dunno, 5
point worth of Curious)

>
>>>Obvious munchkin material like this one should also
>>Hey, I think this is a well-designed interesting character, albeit brutally
>optimised.
>
>Yeah, that's what I said. ;-)
>

Seriously, it's not munchkinised. Munchinised would involve dropping ST and
HT down to nines, and jacking INT up to 14, with a commensurate +2 on all
INT based skills (drop the AKs down to half a point 12s and add 2 points
into Computer Ops and one point of Sex Appeal <we have to, we're a munchkin>).

>Oh, he's not an outright munchkin. He just displays severe munchkinoid
>tendencies. I'm certain that with the right player he could be an
>interesting addition to the party, given his monomaniacal tendencies. ;-)
>

Monomaniacal ? I resent that. Do you call characters with 50 points in
combat skills 'monomaniacal' ?

>>Oooooh, cool stuff *thinks if you can build Lazlo <Hunter S Thompson's
>>Samoan Attorney> on 75 points*. There was me thinking a pet Attorney was
>>merely an expensive habit ... (*blam* *blam* *blam* Trader :<fumbling with
>>pistol> 'They're shooting at us ... is returning fire illegal in this
>>juristdiction ?' <Minder draws and returns fire in a sustained and accurate
>>manner> Lawyer '<gets out stopwatch>Yes, and you are on paid time *now*')
>
>ROFLOL!
>
>HEY! No fair! You're starting to convince me that this *would* be a fun
>character! (If nothing else because it would be *so* enjoyable to hose him,
>every now and then. ;-)
>

Hmm, I wonder what a Life Assurance Policy costs ... (it's a special sort
of bearer bond ... in the case of your unlawful death, it puts a suitably
large bounty on your killer).

>>With $1.5 mill in cash and Merchant-21, your job *is* merchant venturing...
>
>True. But I (and most bosses, come to think of it ;-) tend to go by the
>guideline "If it's fun, it ain't work. Stop laughing and get to work!"
>Remember Catbert, the Evil HR Director? So, that should be 40 hours of
>mind-numbingly boring administration/management/beancounting on *top* of all
>the fun adventuring stuff that he really doesn't have time to do, for the
>tax papers have to be in by tomorrow morning at the latest, and he has a
>stack of TASJ Form 342345 *this* high to deal with before noon, and... Oh
>yeah, sleep would be nice too. And perhaps even some r&r? And, of course, if
>he gets behind on his accounting, well, that's an "Adventure Opportunity",
>innit? "The Taxman Cometh!", anyone? ;-)
>

Sounds fair to me ...

>>>Combat Paralysis? He he he. At least the munchkin leabves the gm a good
>way
>>of getting rid of it. ;-) Unlikely in a real munchkin, but still fun. ;-)
>

I am not a munchkin :) I just ruthlessly optimise :)

>>Note the highly-paid Minder ...
>
><Que massive amounts of full-auto fire from an assortment of thugs and
>ne'er-do-wells.>
>- -"Come *on* boss! We gotta skedaddle out of here! STAT!"
>- - <silence>
>- -"BOSS!!! NOW!!!"
>- - <silence>
>- -"Sigh." (Hoists boss up in a fireman's carry and runs off, dodging bullets
>to to the left and to the right.) "I'm too old for this..."
>
>I hope the Minder remembered to buy some extra Strength. Or at least some
>pain medication for that aching back. ;-)

Hey, why not both ? High ST and Addiction (Painkillers) ?

We *do* have to design the Bodyguard and the Lawyer, and do the trio as a
an Instant Adventure Pack ...

Hmmm. A Trader, a Minder and a Lawyer walked into a bar ... key Bureaucrat,
Stage Left.

'Hello Mr Seyeturia. You, the gorilla and the shyster are still hanging
around together ... well, you have a problem ...'

'I have a problem ? My good man, that tie you are wearing is three years
out of fashion ...' <*Add 5 point Fashion Sense and 5 Point Addiction (New
Clothes)*>

'Cut the crap, Seyaturia. And I *really* hope that goon of yours has given
up his habit of carrying a concealed 12 millimeter ...'

<*bodyguard snarls* hey ... Aslan lawyer ...>

'But because I'm your *friend*, I'm going to give you an opportunity to
solve your problem. Some of the boys in Section Four think the Ayobi
Princess is smuggling. I want you, the goon and your furry friend to
charter some space on her, and keep a very careful eye on her. Of course,
you *could* always stay here ... I hear that there's a new hotshot in
Biological Controls who wants a scalp or three *thin smile* ...'

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 21:30:32 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: NA National Borders (Was Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (RW sucessionist Issues))

At 02:10 PM 02/01/99 PST, you wrote:
>
>Try Oregon, Washington, Idaho.... possibly with British Columbia and
>part of northern California....
>
>ps. We'd love to leave the US with Hanford, but it isn't practical...
>

        Hi, Leonard!
        Ummmmm....  When did BC become a Yank property?  Last I heard, they
were ticked at the US about Salmon overfishing?

        Regards,
        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:50:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Magazine for T5?

My preference was the JTAS where there was a Feature, but also
Departments that I could count on.  For instance, I enjoyed the Amber
Zone because it took no time to jump in and could (most often) be run
anywhere.  With the Digest I had to know what was going on.  In Far
Traveller and High Passage you had to read the setting, etc. in order
to use the material.  Also, as a writer, submission of articles is
easier.  Features might be commissioned, but Amber Zone or Beastiary
articles can come from multiple sources without needing to be linked
to the main theme.

I am going to stick my neck out here, and though I may get back a
bloody stump, I must tell that my favorite (for format and looks, not
content) is the resurected JTAS (#25 & #26).

It appears that Traveller Chronicle used types one and two at various
times.



- ---Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com> wrote:
>
> Actually, more like three.
> 
> I've seen three different ways of handling a Traveller magazine
> that I'd call successful - certainly, none of the magazines
> failed because of what they did; it seems to me that it was
> always outside pressures that closed them down.
> 
> The first one was, naturally, the original Journal of the
> Travellers' Aid Society.  This magazine had a primary focus item
> for each issue, and contained other useful items as well - short
> adventures, new equipment, alien races, animals, NPCs, and so on.
> Lots of stuff, very nice to have.



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4 ?tg ge- 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 13:08:35
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: EW in Traveller

>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: Ravioli Railgun
>     
>        Now, the EW boys were 8freaking* the entire time, any they could
>tells us what bearing the jammers were *on*, so the GDO-Visual was able to
>have all the eye-targeted systems pointing the right way, but we could not
>direct Sea Sparrow or 3"50 gun fire at them.  30mm Bofors (eye-targeted) and
>.50 cal was all we had.  Talk about "Point Defense".
>
>        So, in our Traveller KK missile attack, the launch ship fires a
>salvo of 100-g missiles at the target and then snaps on the jammer and
>"whites out" the bearing the missiles are screaming down.  It only has to
>last a few minutes.

Michel,

Jamming and EW equipment for Bruce's DSR are in FFS2. Basically, an active
jammer costs double, uses double power and takes up 1/10th the area, while
a passive jammer costs 5x, takes up 20x the power and uses up half the area.

100 G missiles are an artifact of the CT missile supplement. You just cant
build anything that fast under any other design system. Drop it to 10 gees
and I dont have a problem.

Firstly, the example you are using is half a dozen first-line state of the
art EW aircraft jamming one Canadian Naval Reserve ship. In Traveller
terms, you were a TL7 (possibly TL6) vessel being jammed by a bunch of TL8
jammers. Frankly, I'd be worried if you werent effectivly blinded.

Secondly, anything that fast in Traveller is probably using Heplar, and you
dont need to use active sensors to spot anything spouting jets of
almost-fusing hydrogen (thruster plates cost MCr1 per 1600 kilonewtons -
Heplar costs KCr 80 for 1600 kN, plus a single fusion plant <KCr200 at
TL13>). Check out the probably passive signal of a 10 gee missile - passive
decoys disguise the signal by fac 1 (FFS2, p74), while anything putting out
10 gees of Heplar is at ?+1.0? under the DSR (the only thing hotter in the
neighbourhood would be the local star).

Given this, I dont think jamming the active systems would count - we could
get a LIDAR lock on the active missiles as soon as they boosted (2 million
km LIDARS are about MCr 10 at TL13), then all we need to do is retain the
LIDAR lock, and pick them off with lasers or counter-missile fire.

Now, you might be able to use a sandcaster on the nose of your missile to
spoof LIDARs, but that is pushing your mass up, making you more vulnerable
to area nukes in a point defense role.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 18:25:46 -0800
From: Derek Stanley <dstanley@direct.ca>
Subject: Empress Wave.

> Did  the Empress Wave phenomenon "create" the GT alternate universe, in
> place of the MT/TNE universe?

No...  Well maybe if you're assuming time travel here.  There are rumors that
the EW might make an appearance in GT.  Rumors that's all.

> >Did  the Empress Wave phenomenon "create" the GT alternate universe, in
> >place of the MT/TNE universe?
> >
>         Hi, Alan!
>         What is the "Empress Wave"...  something TNE, or what?  I'm a CT
> junkie, so was curious what this is.

The EW was the reason the real Strephon wasn't at Capital when Dulinor
assassinated his double.

The EW is a psionic / psychic phenomenon eminating from the Galactic Center, travelling outwards
at the speed of light.  There are a number of theories on what the EW does to people and a great
number of discussions on it in the TNE side of thing.  Basically it seems to "change" the patterns
of people (include all aliens in this) and possible awaken their latent psionic potential.  The
most dramatic effects of the wave seem to follow some 50+ years after the initial wave front.
What happens "back there" is anyone's guess.  In TNE the Zhodani Consulate appears to be coming
appart at the seams.  In MT the LongBow stations out in the Vargr Extents all seem to go offline
after the wave front passes over them.  This could be because INI is utilizing psionics at these
stations in their observations of the Zhodani core expeditions.

Please note that this has nothing to do with the "Sparklers" or "Baddies to the Core" both of whom
were officially invalidated by the Regency Sourcebook.

There's plenty more thoughts on what this is or what it means but the basic thing that goes along
with the wave front is a vision of a woman standing in front of a burning city (IIRC) attempting
to communicate something to the person who receives the vision.

The Wave appears to have had dramatic effects upon the Consulate but little noticable effect on
the Extents.  My theory is the Wave's effects are most noticable on "Static" rather than "Dynamic"
socities.  Thus, the Zho's and the Vilani would be hardest hit, while the kinds of changes the EW
brings about would be virtually un-noticed  in the Vargr extents, as things are in a constant
state of flux there.

Derek Stanley

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 13:29:57
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Tuscaloosa class comments

>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>Subject: TUSCALOOSA-class Heavy Cruiser
>
>Tons: 70000std (SL Wedge Hypersonic) 

I really dont like wedges as a shape ... how much spare surface area do you
have ?

>Electronics (Ar: 10 [29])
>Controls: Holographic, Standard automation. 5xFibComp (CM:0.2 CP:5.0).
>Terrain following sensors (TF:570, NOE:190). Bridge.
>Communications: 4xRadio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 8xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).
>Sensors: 1xPEMS (14.5 [160mkm], 0.5MW). 1xAEMS (12.5 [5mkm] LP, 50MW).
>4xLIDAR (15 [2mkm], 2.5MW).

More LIDARS ! Preferably 1 per laser battery ...

>Survey/Science: 1xDensitometer (9 [500km]). 1xNeutrino (8.5 [160km],
>2MW).
>ECM: 1xRadio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4MW). 1xArea. Jammer (12, 625MW).
>1xDecp. Jammer (13, 12.5MW).
>  1xPas. Jammer (16, 6.25MW).

Unless it's been errata'd, that passive jammer should be taking up 250
000m2, and costing TCr 6.25 (thats Cr 6 250 000 000 000)

>Signatures: Vis:-1, IR:0.5 (0.5 at 187732MW, 0 at 22100MW), Act:0,
>Neu:1, Grav:2
>
>
>
>Performance 
>4 Jump (7000std/pc fuel/Ar: 20 [60]) 
>6/6.2 Maneuver (Thruster:162,607MW/Ar: 20 [60])
>1/1 Contra-grav (17693MW/Ar: 20 [60]) 

It pulls six gees ... why the contragrav ?

>5000kph/5000kph Atmosphere Maximum 
>3750kph/3750kph Atmosphere Cruise 
>6 Power (Fusion:2221000MW,1yr) 
>0 Battery 
>29621.4 Fuel (Scoop:5 /Purif:24hrs /Ar: 10 [29]) 
>1580/20/207/400 Accomodations (SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy Low
>Berth) 
>41600 Life Sup. (Type:Extended,Good Food/Storage) 
>6 G-Comp 
>16 Damper Turrets (3MW /Rng:30000km /Ar: 10 [29])

You need longer-ranged dampers ... at TL13, det lasers are blossoming at 30
kkm.
 
>664 Meson Screen (275.56MW /Ar: 10 [29]) 

This wont even slow down a cruiser-sized meson gun.

>120 [1430] Armor, 59 Structure 
>

30.4 cm of Enhanced Bonded Superdense, right ?

>
>
>Weapons (300,000km range bands) 
>1x 22.5k-Mj Spinal PA (+6) 2/15-15-15-15 [2,200/1065-1065-1065-1065]
>400rof Ar: 30 [115]

Thats DV 1065, out to a maximum range of 'yes', right ? Note that it cannot
penetrate it's own armour ... it's a 150mx18.75m, isnt it ... think about a
circular PAW ... you have range coming out of the wazoo, but you need more
crunch power IMO

Can you build a Meson-gun armed version ?

>8x 568-Mj Laser Bay (+6) 1/6-6-6-6 [2,200/60-60-60-60] 200rof 
>32x 250-Mj Laser Turret (+6) 1/4-4-4-4 [2,100/40-40-40-40] 100rof 

Thats 200 and 100 shots per 30 minutes ? Please, go for a higher RoF ...

>24x Missile Bay Auto 4/4 (Mag:76 /MFD:500,000km) 
>     w/80 Command DetLaser1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU 
>

If they are defensive, go for area nukes, not det lasers ... keep waves of
inbounds spread out.

>
>
>Features (all Ar: 10 [29])

>1x Combat Information Center (120std ea.) 

Nice touch

>Sensors: 2xPEMS (14 [50mkm]). 2xAEMS (12.5 [5mkm]).  

Put in a dozen spare PEMS 13s, and a dozen spare LIDAR 14.5s, just in case.

>ECM: None 

Please, at least enough to jam any Frigates ... a 13.5 PEMS jammer and a
11.5 AEMS jammer at least ...


Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 21:58:36 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: EW in Traveller

At 01:08 PM 1/3/99 +0000, you wrote:


>Firstly, the example you are using is half a dozen first-line state of the
>art EW aircraft jamming one Canadian Naval Reserve ship. In Traveller
>terms, you were a TL7 (possibly TL6) vessel being jammed by a bunch of TL8
>jammers. Frankly, I'd be worried if you werent effectivly blinded.

The Intruder-E is not the same thing as an EA-6B.  The A-6E is/was the
latest generation of the A-6 which dates back to the mid-60's.  Big
differance in EW capability.


Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net
Morrow Project Campaign http://www.sol-3.net
WT-L Support Pages http://www.sol-3.net/wt-l

Give me a lever long enough and a prop strong enough. I can
single-handedly move the world.
- --- Archimedes ---

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 02:59:18 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Re; Imperial Grand Survey

 "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com> wrote:

>Keep your eye on
>>>the BITS pages (www.bits.org.uk) for more information.
>
>
>ANyone else having problems with this page?
>I have not been able to access it at all.


Not susre what's up - will call Andy tomorrow and get him to chase it with
his ISP - if no joy will post the direct link here as an interim solution.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 03:01:27 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Re: HIWG Traveller Writers' Guild Digest V1 #317

Apologies for the misdirected mail....

>Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 20:22:00 +0000
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
>Subject: Re: HIWG Traveller Writers' Guild Digest V1 #317


Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 22:11:36 EST
From: RSpake2064@aol.com
Subject: Imperium Secesssionist Movements (Re: US Constitutional Issues)

In a message dated 99-01-02 20:16:05 EST, you write:

<<        Hi, Richard!
         What does this have to do with Traveller?
 	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
 		Michel R. Vaillancourt
 		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca >>

well...  

to get it back onto a traveller note... i was working on an idea about a
sector of the Imeperium that wanted its independence...  

but then i realised that was the whole point fo the MegaTraveller's
Rebellion!!!

any ideas about the Imperium's various seceesionist movements (other than the
'Solomani' who want to get Terra back, aka the "Free Terra" Movement)?

richard

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 03:13:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Alternative BITS address - please don't book mark

BITS (British Isles Traveller Support)

This URL

http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/BITShome.html

Will get you to BITS as the http://www.bits.org.uk/ link appears to be down
temporarily. Please do not bookmark this location as it is liable to change
without warning. I've only given it out as an alternative as I can't reach
Andy Lilly at present.

This appears to have started on 01/01/1999 and appears to be a problem with
the virtual ISP address (a server/provider I can't access - only Andy can).
:<

Will let you know when the direct link is up again,

Dom (BITS webmaster)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 22:42:46 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Imperium Secesssionist Movements 

> to get it back onto a traveller note... i was working on an idea about a
> sector of the Imeperium that wanted its independence...  
> 
> but then i realised that was the whole point fo the MegaTraveller's
> Rebellion!!!
> 
> any ideas about the Imperium's various seceesionist movements (other than the
> 'Solomani' who want to get Terra back, aka the "Free Terra" Movement)?

In Reavers' Deep, you'll find the Union of Harmony, the Lanyard Colonies, and 
a few other Solomani client states.  The Harmonies were ethnic Asians who 
believed in 'Solomani purity' and 'Solomani supremacy'.  Fun people.  They 
would have gotten involved in the Solomani-sponsored commerce raiding in 
Daibei, Reavers' Deep, & Dark Nebula, but they were too busy doing a brushfire 
war with the Aslans to Spinward, the Duchy of Marlheim to Core, and the 
Confederacy of Duncinae to Trailing.

The Lanyard Colonies of Horste (RD 1937), Lanyard (RD 1938), Ceytle (RD 2037), 
and Morgan (RD 2038) were nominally Sollie client states, but they tended to 
only pay lip service to 'The Cause'.  The Purity League is a radical Sollie 
client state at the Rim/Trailing corner of the Deep, a totalitarian religious 
dictatorship who allowed Sollie commerce raiders to base there in exchange for 
technological support.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 04:47:08 +0100
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: Re: G:T merchant

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>>From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
>Wait a second. He has Economics at something gross (it defaults on
Merchant).

Yeah, but that brings us into the stormy waters of 'Just what is a point
anyway?' (For the record, to me a point is about 90% hours of training, and
about 10% play balance. Right now, that is. Ask me again in 10 minutes, and
I'll give a different answer. Maybe. ;-)

>We have 20 points of 'free' disad space, and 5 points of unassigned
>background skills

Dang. I thought you'd spent it all. Oh well, at least I forgot to ask for
Psychology (Consumer buying habits), and Savoir Faire (Military, Noble,
depending on market.)

>Diplomacy is used rather than Fast Talk

Ok. I'll buy that for his current clientele, but you are then saying that
he's never been the equivalent of a vacuum cleaner/encyclopedia salesman.
(Which is fine. It's just my bias showing through. ;-)

>, and I'm not sure of the difference
>between Economics and Economic Analysis/Intelligence Analysis.

Actually, me neither. I only took a few weeks of university economics.

>OK. Half a dozen one point AKs (all at 11), couple of points in Research
>(12), couple of points in Writing (12). Four points in Streetwise (13) and
>one point in Leadership (11) is 15 extra points, so we buy another 15
>points of Disads (say, a 5 point Enemy, a 5 point Addiction and, I dunno, 5
>point worth of Curious)

Yeah, that's more like it. He's actually beginning to sound like a character
I might admit into one of my campaigns. But he'd still be regarded as a
monomaniac. ;-) (What's the (derogatory) term in english for someone who
studies *way* too much. Not nerd, or geek. There's another, but I can't
remember it... The translation of the Swedish term would be Studyhorse,
which isn't it either. ;-)

>Seriously, it's not munchkinised. Munchinised would involve dropping ST and
>HT down to nines, and jacking INT up to 14, with a commensurate +2 on all
>INT based skills (drop the AKs down to half a point 12s and add 2 points
>into Computer Ops and one point of Sex Appeal <we have to, we're a
munchkin>).

Well, actually Computer Ops is unneccessary. (At least according to UT29.)
Which would save another 2 points. ;-)

>Monomaniacal ? I resent that. Do you call characters with 50 points in
>combat skills 'monomaniacal' ?

Not to their face (as said character would then most likely respond by
smashing mine in.) But, yes, I'd call that a monomaniac. Especially if just
shy of half of those points were in *one* skill.

>>HEY! No fair! You're starting to convince me that this *would* be a fun
>>character! (If nothing else because it would be *so* enjoyable to hose
him,
>>every now and then. ;-)
>Hmm, I wonder what a Life Assurance Policy costs ... (it's a special sort
>of bearer bond ... in the case of your unlawful death, it puts a suitably
>large bounty on your killer).

Inn Sewer Ants? Dat related to Echo-Gnomics? ;-)

But seriously, if anyone requested it, I'd set it up as a semi-patron that
provides *one* service. Making sure people realize that they'd better not
mess with this character. The points would give a +1 per 'level' on reaction
rolls in potential combat situations where the opponents could realize that
the character is a 'made man.' It would also give an *extra* reaction roll
whenever someone is about to kill the character if he's helpless for some
reason. Reasons to buy it could include: Being a Made Man (in the Mob, that
is.) Being a child/close friend of someone who has his own navy, and few
scruples. I doubt I'd let anyone *legal* sell that kind of service. There
should probably be a few different versions of the disad (Ranging from
"Killer Will Get A Contract Put Out On Him" at x2 cost, through "Killer Will
Get A Bounty On His Head" at x1 cost, to "Killer Will Get Bad Publicity" at
x1/2 cost) and odds people have heard of the organization in question (15-
to 6- at the regular FOA multipliers.)

>> Unlikely in a real munchkin, but still fun. ;-)
>I am not a munchkin :) I just ruthlessly optimise :)

Hey, I just said you weren't a *real* munchin, didn't I? ;-)

>We *do* have to design the Bodyguard and the Lawyer, and do the trio as a
>an Instant Adventure Pack ...

Oooh! I like it...

>Hmmm. A Trader, a Minder and a Lawyer walked into a bar ...

ROTFLOL!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 22:09:07 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: G:T merchant

>>, and I'm not sure of the difference
>>between Economics and Economic Analysis/Intelligence Analysis.
>
>Actually, me neither. I only took a few weeks of university economics.
>

I took just a bit more.  Economics is the main theories behind macro and
micro economics, how things work.

Things like monetary & Fiscal policy, Government and the Economy (I can't
believe I remember them, probably too evil to forget) cover different areas
in lots of detail.
They would probably fall under Economic analysis.

TV

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1353
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 3 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1354



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Texas Revolts?
task library
HIWG CD
Re: NA National Borders
Re: Tuscaloosa class comments
Ship design standards
Re: Empress Wave (ws Re: Pluto's Secret)
Re: American soldiers firing on citizens...
Extended Social Generation for Traveller
Re: FSotSI (was Re: Board Game _Imperium_ and an IW Campaign)
Re: American soldiers firing on citizens...
Merc Ops (was Re: Texas Revolts?)
Re: Extended Social Generation for Traveller
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (Texas Issues)
Re: Pluto's secret
Re: Alternative BITS address - please don't book mark
Re: Happy New Year (and Happy Emperor's Birthday!) 
Re: Extended Social Generation for Traveller
Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (Texas Issues)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 23:56:06 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Texas Revolts?

And I restate my opinion that such a thing would not happen unless the govt.
had a vested interest in it.

It takes propaganda, money, and power to get an Army together where there
was none.

- --Clif

>So the possiblity of a modern War of Succession is a possiblity, as ugly as
it
>is, we must recognise and admit is possible.
>
>richard (who is waiting for the flames to come as some find these simple
words
>offensive)
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 00:26:46 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: task library

	The complete MT task library (give or take) can be found on the HIWG CD in
two sections I think. One is definitely under IBM software, I think the other
might be under HIWG docs (but I'm not sure on that one).


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 00:28:21 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: HIWG CD

	For those interested, there are about fifteen copies left to purchase.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 21:56:17 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: NA National Borders

>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
...
>        Ummmmm....  When did BC become a Yank property? 

  Shh - you'll wake them up! Anyway, if the US starts to fall apart maybe
we can hive off Washington; naturally, we'll throw scraps to public opinion
by putting Bill the Gates up against the wall :)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 02:11:16 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Tuscaloosa class comments

Ian or Katts wrote:
> 
> >From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
> >Subject: TUSCALOOSA-class Heavy Cruiser
> >
> >Tons: 70000std (SL Wedge Hypersonic)
> 
> I really dont like wedges as a shape ... how much spare surface area do you
> have ?
> 
Plenty of surface area, I'll admit [46,720.51m^2 used, 25,805.99m^2
spare].  The main reason this ship is Wedge configuration is that I
converted it from a High Guard design I did, and wedges in HG are more
resistant to meson gun fire.  I'l admit that other configurations would
be more efficient (since T4 doesn't include configuration bonuses vs.
meson gun fire), but I wanted to keep this ship as close to the original
as possible.

Besides, I _like_ Wedge configuration warships....

<<snip>>

> >4xLIDAR (15 [2mkm], 2.5MW).
> 
> More LIDARS ! Preferably 1 per laser battery ...
> 
Sounds good.  I'd probably drop them down to 500kkm range for that
purpose, though.

> >Survey/Science: 1xDensitometer (9 [500km]). 1xNeutrino (8.5 [160km],
> >2MW).
> >ECM: 1xRadio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4MW). 1xArea. Jammer (12, 625MW).
> >1xDecp. Jammer (13, 12.5MW).
> >  1xPas. Jammer (16, 6.25MW).
> 
> Unless it's been errata'd, that passive jammer should be taking up 250
> 000m2, and costing TCr 6.25 (thats Cr 6 250 000 000 000)
> 
That's the result that Andrew Akins' spreadsheet gave me.  I'll look
into it.

<<snip>>

> >6/6.2 Maneuver (Thruster:162,607MW/Ar: 20 [60])
> >1/1 Contra-grav (17693MW/Ar: 20 [60])
> 
> It pulls six gees ... why the contragrav ?
> 
If you recall, I asked the TML denizens about this issue.  The most
common response I got boiled down to "you don't _need_ C-G on a ship
with sufficient thruster plates to achieve escape velocity; however,
belly-landing ships will need a _very_ long runway without C-G."

<<snip>>

> >16 Damper Turrets (3MW /Rng:30000km /Ar: 10 [29])
> 
> You need longer-ranged dampers ... at TL13, det lasers are blossoming at 30
> kkm.
> 
I probably can work those in without too much problem.  What range do
you recommend?

> >664 Meson Screen (275.56MW /Ar: 10 [29])
> 
> This wont even slow down a cruiser-sized meson gun.
> 
I based that figure on Bruce Alan Macintosh's combat system, in which
this size screen _will_ stop a meson gun equivalent in volume and power
demand to the PAW with which TUSCALOOSA is armed.

> >120 [1430] Armor, 59 Structure
> >
> 
> 30.4 cm of Enhanced Bonded Superdense, right ?
> 
30.36 cm, actually (again, based on the results from Akins' spreadsheet
v. 3.2).

> >
> >
> >Weapons (300,000km range bands)
> >1x 22.5k-Mj Spinal PA (+6) 2/15-15-15-15 [2,200/1065-1065-1065-1065]
> >400rof Ar: 30 [115]
> 
> Thats DV 1065, out to a maximum range of 'yes', right ? Note that it cannot
> penetrate it's own armour ... it's a 150mx18.75m, isnt it ... think about a
> circular PAW ... you have range coming out of the wazoo, but you need more
> crunch power IMO
> 
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to mount a more powerful weapon while
maintaining J4/6G performance, and having the ship resonably proof
against its own weapon class (that was deliberate).  I'll consider
up-gunning the follow-on BALTIMORE class.

> Can you build a Meson-gun armed version ?
> 
I haven't yet, but most of my designs are paired PAW and meson gun
classes.  Next week (after I finish typing them as text files) I'll post
the BROOKLYN (meson) and ST. LOUIS (PAW) classes of light cruisers, both
TL 13, and both on essentially identical hulls.

> >8x 568-Mj Laser Bay (+6) 1/6-6-6-6 [2,200/60-60-60-60] 200rof
> >32x 250-Mj Laser Turret (+6) 1/4-4-4-4 [2,100/40-40-40-40] 100rof
> 
> Thats 200 and 100 shots per 30 minutes ? Please, go for a higher RoF ...
> 
Each laser mount (turret and bay) also has battery power sufficient for
PD ROF of 800.  

> >24x Missile Bay Auto 4/4 (Mag:76 /MFD:500,000km)
> >     w/80 Command DetLaser1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU
> >
> 
> If they are defensive, go for area nukes, not det lasers ... keep waves of
> inbounds spread out.
> 
The missile bays are primarily designed as secondary batteries to whomp
the tar out of DDs escorting the enemy cruisers.  However, I can see
mounting 8 missile bays with area nukes (for defensive purposes),
leaving 16 bays for DD killing.

> >Features (all Ar: 10 [29])
> 
> >1x Combat Information Center (120std ea.)
> 
> Nice touch

Thanks.
> 
> >Sensors: 2xPEMS (14 [50mkm]). 2xAEMS (12.5 [5mkm]).
> 
> Put in a dozen spare PEMS 13s, and a dozen spare LIDAR 14.5s, just in case.
> 
> >ECM: None
> 
> Please, at least enough to jam any Frigates ... a 13.5 PEMS jammer and a
> 11.5 AEMS jammer at least ...
> 
I should be able to manage that....

> Ian Whitchurch

So.  Do I at least pass the test to move from Apprentice to Journeyman
Gearhead? ;-)

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 03:27:55 -0600
From: Travis Foster <travisf23@earthlink.net>
Subject: Ship design standards

I've recently decided to run a Gurps:Traveller game and I need to build a
large exploration starship.

What are the size [in tons?] of the various types of ships? I'm especially
looking for ranges for the larger ships (what is considered a large ship?).

Thanks,
Travis 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:12:26 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave (ws Re: Pluto's Secret)

Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
> >Did  the Empress Wave phenomenon "create" the GT alternate universe, in
> >place of the MT/TNE universe?
> >
>         Hi, Alan!
>         What is the "Empress Wave"...  something TNE, or what?  I'm a CT
> junkie, so was curious what this is.

Derek Stanley has explained it well.

The bit I was working off was that the details about what happens behind it
doesn't really seem that official, although I may have missed something
from GT.  In other words, there *could* be a time-related phenomenon there.

I guess while we're explaining, I'll do this one too:
"Was it a time-travelling Avery who tipped off Strephon about Dulinor's
plot?"

Avery was the son of Strephon and (posthumously) Empress Iolanthe, born
during the Rebellion from frozen ova that had been removed from Iolanthe in
her youth.  He was genetically engineered for psionic capabilities, and
conditioned to study the Empress Wave.

Strephon sent him to the Regency with the AHL class cruiser Arrival
Vengeance, in the scenario of that name.  There he grew up, married Norris'
female clone/daughter (and heir) Seldrian, and fathered Caranda, later to
become Regent (and "legitimate" heir to the Imperial throne!).  Eventually,
he wandered off to coreward on an expedition to study the Empress Wave,
which was starting to get close to the Regency border.  His fate is
unknown.

Although my speculations were throw-away silliness, they're not actually
that dumb (by Star Trek standards!), and I may even use them...

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 05:05:57 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: American soldiers firing on citizens...

RSpake said:
>Further more, I DO NOT KNOW OF ANY AMERICAN SOLDIERS who would follow the
>orders to FIRE ON THEIR FELLOW AMERICAN CITIZENS...  They would desert
before
>they took up arms agasint fellow american defending their consitutional
>rights...

Historically, here in the U.S., soldiers have already fired on civilians.
Kent State is one example. There was another time back in the twenties or
thirties as well, IIRC. I'd have to look it up again though.

Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 21:47:44
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Extended Social Generation for Traveller

OK. This is something that has been floating around in my brain for a
while. Essentially, it is an attempt to do a scalable social map for a
chunk of the Third Imperium. The basic version is for a world, but it can
be upscaled for Subsector, Sector and Imperial level.

If we can computerise it, it could be really, really cool.

****************************************************************************
******

Step One : Determine World Importance

The Base Rank of a world is equal to the World's basic importance - halve
the world's population, add a the Starport modifier (+2 for A, +1 for B, -1
for D, -2 for E, -4 for X), and add one-third (round up) of the TL-10.

Base rank works on the same O1-O9 system as the rest of Traveller. The only
exception is the title of Planetary Head of Government, which is socially
determined and independant of the career and rank of the holder.

Step Two : Determine Personell and Rank

Each world will have a Planetary Head of Government, a Planetary Navy head,
a Planetary Army head and a Ranking Planetary Corporate Tycoon. The Head of
Government is Base Rank + 1, everyone else is Base Rank.

Each world will have a Rank +1 Imperial Representitive, (2d-9) Imperial
Personell and a Base Admiral, a Scout Base Chief and a TAS Bureau Head if
these facilities exist. The Imperial Personell represent either
quasi-Imperial Non Government Organisations (for example, the Imperial
equivalent of The Wilderness Society or the Sierra Club) or attached
members of Imperial bureaucracies.

Each Megacorp (yup, all 13 of them) rolls for a Presence on the world,
trying to roll World Importance or less on 2 dice. Megacorporations will
have a Major presence (and a base rank rep) if they make this roll. If they
miss by less than 3, then they have a Minor presence (and a base rank - 1
dice rank rep). If they miss by 3 or more, they have an Incidental
presence, and a base rank- 2 dice rep. If a megacorp rep is rank 0 or less,
there is no rep for that Megacorp on that world.

<Named Sector- and and subsector-level corporations would also roll at this
point. Note that the rank of each Megacorp rep is a damn good indicator of
a Megacorp's interest in that world>

If there is a Naval Base, the Naval Base Commander is Rank Six or Base
Rank, whatever is higher. If the Naval Base is a Depot, the Depot Commander
is Rank Eight.

If there is a Scout Base, the Scout Base commander is always Rank Five.

Step Three : Determine Career and Age of personell

A person's career is rolled on this table (Government includes all non-Navy
Imperial Reps)

Government		Corporate	Navy/Scout/Army
	
2 Noble			Noble		Noble		
3 Diplomat		Diplomat	Diplomat	
4 Bureaucrat		Bureaucrat	Bureaucrat	
5 Bureaucrat		Bureaucrat	Navy/Scout/Army
6 Noble			Merchant	Navy/Scout/Army
7 Noble			Merchant	Navy/Scout/Army
8 Merchant		Merchant	Navy/Scout/Army
9 Bureaucrat		Bureaucrat	Navy/Scout/Army
10 Navy 		Bureaucrat	Navy/Scout/Army
11 Diplomat		Merchant	Navy/Scout/Army
12 Merchant		Merchant	Navy/Scout/Army

A person's age will be eighteen plus the minimum number of terms neccessary
to achieve their rank, plus 2 dice, minus three. In the case of nobles,
they are 18 plus 2 dice terms, regardless of rank.

Now, note that you know the rank, age and career of the person, so you
could now fully generate them as an NPC. Or at least give them a name (can
anyone on the Trav Lang list recommend a good random naming program for
Traveller ?).

Step 4 : Create Social Links

Imperial society is permeated by links of families, factions and cliques.
For simplicity, I am going to refer to any such grouping at a subsector
level as a 'family', regardless of actual kinship links (or lack thereof).

Each level of Imperial society has a maximum of 15 such groups, some larger
than others. A subsector Family will have a two-thirds chance of
affiliation with a random sector-level Clan. Each sector-level Clan has a
two-thirds chance of affiliation with an Imperial-level Clique.

Heads of Planetary government will be affiliated with a random family half
the time.

Other members of a Planetary government have a fifty percent chance of
belonging to the same Family as the Head of Government, a one-third chance
of being unaffiliated and a one in six chance of being a member of a random
family.

Imperial or Megacorporate representitives have a two-thirds chance of
belonging to a random family.

Step Five : Add in Subsector level personell

Numbered Fleet commanders are Navy O8s. 

Each megacorp has a Subsector Head of (highest rank for that megacorp in
that sector + 1). 

Each subsector has a ranking noble, of rank O5.

Step Six : Create Social Conflicts

Roll a reaction roll for every Family against every other Family. Note any
really good or really bad reactions.

Step Seven : Sector level

Add in Sector level personell, the same way as Subsector personell were
added, but one rank higher.

Roll for Family affiliation to Clans.

Step Eight : Imperial Level

Add in Imperial level personell, the same way as Sector personell level
were added, but one rank higher.

Roll for Clan affiliation to Cliques.

(c) Ian Whitchurch 1999. 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 02:59:53 +0000
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@bitslayer.net>
Subject: Re: FSotSI (was Re: Board Game _Imperium_ and an IW Campaign)

> Date:          Fri, 01 Jan 1999 08:45:11 -0500
> From:          James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
> 
>      - In *every* ship design, the number of gunners was the same as the
> number of flight crew, regardless of the number of guns and the number of
> subcraft;
>      - Cargo space used for tankage (ie, extra fuel carried, ad in a
> tanker) kept popping up in the strangest places, and in very peculiar
> amounts - my copy of the book is over at the storage unit, so I can't look
> it up, but I distinctly recall one design which supposedly carried several
> times its own displacement in tankage.

Also, a number of ships ignored the maximum armour rule, resulting in 
ships having densities greater than 15 tonnes/kL (in other words, 
they mass more than a solid block of armour of the same displacement 
[improved superdense? :) ] ).

- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.paralynx.com/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 08:22:16 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: American soldiers firing on citizens...

I was in the Army, myself, and I don't believe they would be as "faithful"
to the American people as you think.  They get their paychecks from the
Uncle giving the orders and many of them have wives and children and
household goods living on post.

Then there is the threat of punishment for not obeying a lawful order, and
who defines "lawful" but the people giving the orders?

- --Clif

>>Further more, I DO NOT KNOW OF ANY AMERICAN SOLDIERS who would follow the
>>orders to FIRE ON THEIR FELLOW AMERICAN CITIZENS...  They would desert
>before
>>they took up arms agasint fellow american defending their consitutional
>>rights...
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 09:42:34 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Merc Ops (was Re: Texas Revolts?)

At 11:56 PM 02/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
>And I restate my opinion that such a thing would not happen unless the govt.
>had a vested interest in it.
>
>It takes propaganda, money, and power to get an Army together where there
>was none.
>
>--Clif
>
        You are right, Cliff...  particularly what would be an *unpopular*
war.  In Traveller, this is probably the single biggest reason for the
creation of Mercenary units...  Organizations that want an army, but
otherwise can't get the criteria in place (other than bullion ;).
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:40:00 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Extended Social Generation for Traveller

Very interesting.  I'll be digesting it for a while.

Some early thoughts:

Major religions
Political organisations (eg Solomani Party, Ine Givar)

Modifiers for organisations that are expanding or withdrawing from a
particular area.  EG: Oberlindes Lines is expanding into Aramis subsector. 
Roll with additional -2 DM for presence on a particular world.

Expansion downwards to planetary government level.  Eg:  What
parties/factions/cliques are in world government?  Who are their leaders? 
Admittedly, this stuff doesn't scale as well as the higher level stuff, as
it's more tied to the peculiarities of the world.  At this level you really
need the expanded world gen stuff from World Builders Handbook and similar.
 Then you could go down to mayors, and major landowners....  This is
perhaps going a little overboard at this point.

Popular support.  This refers to political groups, religions and
corporations that are engaged in competition.  Essentially there should be
a base level of support, plus modifiers for actual levels, rolled as
required.  

Examples:
What proportion of the poolball fruit market does Makhidkarun have?  Err,
(roll, roll) 43%.  It's biggest competitor is Tukera Fruit, with 22%.  
Who won the last election on this world?  Umm, the Democratic Solomani
Party got 54%, but were overthrown in a coup.  

This procedure could also be used when faction leaders have large support
(but unspecified) support bases.  We can work out how the Dukes will vote,
but what about the Barons? 

Very interesting work!  Keep it up!

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 07:50:32 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (Texas Issues)

TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:

> > In support of the secession, let me present the following:  By 2023,
> > the United States has been engaged in a three-year Trade War with
> > Japan and other major powers of the time, and are now two years into
> > an eight-year long Depression.  Things are bad; the US has not yet
> > recovered from the economic straightjacket it has found itself in.
> 
> I just don't see what the US would gain by allowing Texas to secede.  It loses
> alot and gains little.  Hostilities tend to be good for economies (it was WWII
> that ended the Great Depression, no?).  In addition, all US assets and tax
> revenues from Texas are lost.  In addition, other states (particularly
> California) would want to do the same and the whole thing would snowball.

Well, the thing that could prevent that is requiring Texas to _pay_ for those
US assets it is taking away... How many Airbases, National parks, etc are in Texas?

Also, there would be _lots_ of other states willing to jump through hoops
(like signing no-secession compacts) to gain all those shares of Govt.
contracts that various Texas corporations have and will lose upon
secession...now, let me see, _how_ much business did Texas Instruments do with
the Pentagon last year??? ;-)

In the end, it would end up making little economic sense to secede.

Plus, if the US is locked in a three-way trade war of death, what happens to
the newly Independent Republic of Texas? You think they're just going to be
left alone by the big powers? HAH! They'd end up ground to economic dust in
the middle of that trade war. Some citizens would get really, really wealthy,
and within 5 or 10 years, most of the economy would be owned by overseas
investors of one side or the other. There would be a proxy economic war fought
there, and you really wouldn't want to be there. It would end up looking like
the worst of Cyberpunk scenarios...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 08:23:10 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Pluto's secret

Actually, Klaus Fuchs, the man who gave all the information to the Soviets,
and who was, one of the primary designers of the Fat Man implosion bomb (he
was the one who came up with the proper design for the explosive 'lenses'
which made the implosion bomb possible) was not American, but English. 

Compared to him, the Rosenbergs and Gold were small fry.

Also, please remember, officially the Russians were on _our_ side during the
war, and _officially_, they were supposed to in on the progress of the
Manhattan Project.

See:

AUTHOR       Rhodes, Richard.
 TITLE        The making of the atomic bomb / Richard Rhodes.
 PUBLISHER    New York : Simon & Schuster, c1986.
 DESCRIPTION  886 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
 NOTES        Includes index.
              Bibliography: p. 848-886.
 SUBJECTS     Atomic bomb -- History.
 ISBN         0671441337 :

and 

AUTHOR       Rhodes, Richard.
 TITLE        Dark sun : the making of the hydrogen bomb.
 PUBLISHER    New York : Simon & Schuster, 1995.
 DESCRIPTION  731 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
 SUBJECTS     Hydrogen bomb -- History.
 ISBN         068480400X.



AveNelso@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 1/2/99 6:34:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, ianw@orac.net.au
> writes:
> 
> <<
>  They found out is was possible and got some very good hints, but without
>  hard work, some brilliance and some very good engineering, then they
>  wouldnt have got it to work as well as they did.
>   >>
> don't forget technical information from American traitors

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 08:25:07 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Alternative BITS address - please don't book mark

SD Mooney wrote:

> This appears to have started on 01/01/1999 and appears to be a problem with
> the virtual ISP address (a server/provider I can't access - only Andy can).

What, a Y2K-1 problem??? ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 07:40:02 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Happy New Year (and Happy Emperor's Birthday!) 

...
>And may all the Impregnable Armoured Beachballs From Hell get swallowed into a 
>black hole someplace.
...

  Gee, that is the best way short of a spinal mount to really get the
attention of one, isn't it?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 11:27:38 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Extended Social Generation for Traveller

At 09:47 PM 03/01/99, you wrote:
>
>OK. This is something that has been floating around in my brain for a
>while. Essentially, it is an attempt to do a scalable social map for a
>chunk of the Third Imperium. The basic version is for a world, but it can
>be upscaled for Subsector, Sector and Imperial level.
>
>If we can computerise it, it could be really, really cool.
>
>****************************************************************************
>******
>
>Step One : Determine World Importance
>
        [Process Snipped]
>(c) Ian Whitchurch 1999. 
>

        I can do this for you, if you like....  It'll be a while before I
can get to it...  Still working on four other programs simulatenously, so I
don't want to overload myself.  I figure I could have an alpha ready in
mid-Feb if that is OK....
        I could use it for my TNEC game, so its worth me doing it.

        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 02:14:03 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Terran First Contact Timeline (Texas Issues)

From: Bruce Johnson 
> Plus, if the US is locked in a three-way trade war of death, what happens
to
> the newly Independent Republic of Texas? You think they're just going to
be
> left alone by the big powers? HAH! They'd end up ground to economic dust
in
> the middle of that trade war. Some citizens would get really, really
wealthy,
> and within 5 or 10 years, most of the economy would be owned by overseas
> investors of one side or the other. There would be a proxy economic war
fought
> there, and you really wouldn't want to be there. It would end up looking
like
> the worst of Cyberpunk scenarios...

Proxy economic war?  Cool.  

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1354
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